Black Widow is a premium recurve I haven't tried yet. I'm thinking it might be time to correct that. Winter seems like a good time to watch the classifieds... :thumbsup:
I look at the website and see the PMA, PSA, and PCH. Are the limbs on the different models all the same? From the pictures it looks like the difference between models is in the riser and sight window length. Any other differences between the three? I'd be interested in a bow in the 60" - 64" range. I draw about 29". I can't find any specifications on the sight.
For a nice all around BW recurve what do you recommend? I read so much about BW recurves it's time to see for myself.
I`ve owned both ma and sa models as well as a pl longbow. All great bows and no complaints.I would like another sa if I ran across a real cheap one....RC
I am like you have never shot one but interested,heading to Kazoo this week to finaly try one,A LEFTY ,none of my buddies are shooting correctly!!
What is an MA and SA...without the "P". Assume I know nothing about Black Widow recurves other than reputation.
The limbs will not interchange. That being said I love my one piece PTF. 62" 57@29
If I'm not mistaken, the MA,PA are before percision machine.
The older Ma and Sa where not made on a cnc machine so swapping limbs out with them was a little more difficult. Widows are great bows. If I ever buy a custom recurve it will be a Widow. Their longbows are some of the best as well.
Easykeeper, yes the risers are different lengths; giving each a different size sight window. The PMA has a 18" riser, PSA has a 16" riser, and the PCH has a 14" riser. Because of this the limbs are not interchangable between models. Black Widow has recomendations for your draw length, you can choose a longer bow for slightly more comfort in shooting. Or a shorter bow for ease of manuverability. I can't recomend an all around BW, as they are great bows. I'm curently shooting a 56" SAX. Just love this bow. They do have a test drive program. Hope this helps.
The PTF is one racy looking bow. I usually prefer one piece bows too, but the classic Black Widow seems to be a take down.
Does the strong deflection in the riser give the bow any unique characteristics? Definitely a different animal than the three-piece models.
Just like any other bow, you have to shoot it to see if you like it. I think they are quality bows. I personally have another fovored brand, but I am going to give one of their 3 piece takedowns a try at K-Zoo for the heck of it. I am not a huge fan of the one piece recurve I have had the opportunity to shoot. I have been wondering if I might like the 3 piece better. Looks like we will both be giving them a try.
Good luck and shoot straight!
Actually my SAX is a curent CNC built bow. I ordered it with out the phenolic limb butts, making it a SAX rather than a PSAX.
Jim that's good information. Just the kind I'm looking for.
What is an SAX? I don't see that one on the website. I have a catalog on order, hopefully it is more informative than the website.
Yes, the catalog is more informative than the website. I think it's their best catalog to date.
MA=maple anniversary
SA=silver anniversary
11=greybark
111=autumn oak
v-ironwood
x=exotic
You can still get SA or Ma or CH made today. They are made on the cnc machine just like the others but do not have the phonlic wedge in the limbs.
The ptf and psa feel the same on draw. Ptf just being a lighter mass bow. Both always shoot good around 8.5" brace. Which is why I always liked widows there brace height and mass weight makes a very forgiving bow.
Charlie - I need to try a Black Widow just to see what they're all about. There are so many nice bows out there half the fun of this stickbow thing is trying them out. If I had to take one bow with me to the grave it would be my Blacktail, but I'd shed many a tear for the nice bows I left behind...
QuoteOriginally posted by sleepyhollow:
MA=maple anniversary
SA=silver anniversary
11=greybark
111=autumn oak
v-ironwood
x=exotic
I have to say their nomenclature is really confusing. Thanks for this, I love fancy wood so X for me.
That's why shows like the one in K-Zoo are a good time. You get to shoot 40 different types of bows. Always a good time!
:archer2:
I usually come home with sore shoulders!
My gotta shoot 'em list this year includes;
1. Black Widow 3 pice takedown
2. Zipper's new longbow
3. ACS longbow
4. Another Timberhawk
5. Tall Tines
I have shot and owned a LOT of bows and I keep going back to my PMAII. I just LOVE the big open site picture on that riser.
If you go to the BW site ,pick a model then scroll down there will the recommended draw lengths listed . Each model will have that list for that model. I have had a MA, PSA, SBS [short black stick : early PSR] and have shot 2 or 3 PCH's. I think the PCH is the best. Great bows ....fantastic customer service. There are always used ones around at fair prices......
I had both PMA, and a PCH, both were good, but as you can see, I'm a longbow guy, and they do make a good one! You will be happy with either bow
First thing, they have a " try before you buy" program soyou can shoot one at home and not be out any more than shipping, and that will be applied to your purchase if you decide to take the plunge.
There's lots of threads about whether they're worth the money, but the standard models are not much more expensive than many other high quality bows.
I own a PCH III, which is the Autumn Oak model. It's plain Jane but I love it. Asbell grip (see the website or catalog for grip descriptions).
If you really look at their construction you will see why they have the reputation for being "bomb-proof". Lots of fiberglass in the riser and even the exotic models have the chunk of wood laminated.
All that being said, they are not the fastest bow out there, and the importance of that will continue to be debated.
All I know is that I am more accurate with my Widow than with any other bow that I've shot.
Other guys.with more experience will chime in, but this relative newbie will stick with my Widows.
The ma has a longer riser than the sa. On the older ones I had anyway. Good shooting,RC.
Here's a pic of limbs from a PCH, SA and MA. The PCH is a 58" bow the SA is a 60" bow and the MA is a 62" bow. The working length of the limb is the same on all three bows. The difference is in the length of the butt of the limb to fit the sight window. I draw 30" and all three are smooth at my draw length. The SA and MA I bought new from Widow in the mid 90's and still have them. They added the "P" when they went to CNC equipment to duplicate the risers the same, time after time in 2002. Prior to 2002 they were done by hand. CNC stands for "Computer Numerical Control". You can input offsets into the lathe and reproduce riser after riser to the same dimensions. The "P" bows have "Precision Crafted" on them vs "Hand Crafted" prior to CNC. The "P" signifies Precision and not Phenolic. Hope this helps.
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e173/Yellowdog3822/P6070042.jpg)
Have owned a PSA that was nice.
Own a 58" PCH that impresses me at my 28" draw. Surprised me that I am able to shoot so competently since I am such a staunch longer bow fan.
Would have to believe that the 60" PCH would cause me to raise the bar of expectations.
Note: The PCH still has plently of heft and for some reason is noticeably faster than my previous PSA. Blacky's report substantiates my speed comment.
Be sure to know your grip preference.
I draw 31" with my PSAV, and the bow is 60" and it feel great! I think it would be a great all around bow! I love the feel of it, it shoot great and where I look! Mine is like, I said, a PSA V 60" 46#@28 made in 09, I got it in the classified for a great deal, and it was in great shape, like new, I don't even think that any arrows when true it... I'm really happy.
I've had several MAs, one LAG and one PSA. I liked the PSA and LAG the best. They are a well made solid bow but a couple of other bows suit me better. If I ever get another Widow it will be used, there are plenty of good deals out there on them.
I have shot them all and owned a PSA and a PCH. For me, the CH was the best fit. I liked the smaller riser and less mass weight, short sight window doesn't matter to me. I currently only have longbows but that new one piece KB, which is the CH in a one piece, looks very nice and would be even lighter than my previous bow.
Hey Easykeeper , I have a PTFX and just love it . The riser weight is lighter than other models and helps my damaged shoulder .
The PTFs have smooth lines like some of the older gems .
You may be able to see it on the BW site and go back five pages to - Greybarks New Widow .
Cheers from the West Coast of Canada...
Great information, really appreciate the input. Black Widow seems to have a pretty diverse product line. Plus the fact they've been around forever and trying to keep up with the evolution of the models.
I'm liking the looks of the PMA or PSA, but the PTF has a certain appeal too.
Owned many widows but all where MA's.
I perferred the pre-CNC limb design.Seem to be a tad bit smoother and had launch feel I like.
If you like one piece bows you should try the PA. I currently have a SA and a PSA. But I've owned a TF and a PA, wish I still had the PA. You also may like the Asbell grip.
I have owned and still do own many widows. I really like the heft of the riser plus the higher brace height on the PMA and PSA. Recommended BH goes up to 9". Even the PCH is up around 8.5". It makes for a very forgiving bow.
I even bought an older SA before CNC machining. I sent it back to be remachined to accept the newer CNC limbs.
Not the fastest, but no slouch either.
Very well mannered bows.
I think Widows are very good shooting and feeling bows. I have PSAIII, PAX, PCHX. My draw is shorter than yours at 26". Personally, I like the appearance and feel of the one-piece best (PA). I have a couple of bows that I prefer over the Widows but it is a slight preference.
The only thing I've found to complain about Widows is how easy it is to twist a limb when stringing. I use stringers and I'm very careful when stringing. It is just as easy to take the twist out of the limb though.
Do yourself a big favor. Call the folks at Black Widow.Tell them what you like as to your shooting style. Recurves or longbow. Recurves they have 3 different 3 piece takedowns and 4 different style 1 pieces.Only 1 longbow.They also have a test drive program. Talk to Toby or Roger. Get a free catalog too.It can save you alot of money.
Thanks for all the great info, looking forward to getting the catalog. I think I'll give them a call and check out the test drive program.
I'll also be cruising the classifieds with an eye on the BW adds, as well as always watching for one piece Blacktails, Silvertips, and Dyes.
Enjoy these info threads. Been shooting for 30+ yrs, about the only bow I have never owned.
Tod, go down to the Waterloo expo in March. I believe that Blackwidow will be there and you can see, handle,and shoot all ot their models as well as talk to the Blackwidow folks.
I just picked up a BW PAX in Curley Bubinga off the Atalk classified section and it is an amazing bow. I had a PSR, PTF and a PSAX, and the PAX to me is the best of the bunch.
QuoteOriginally posted by Yellow Dog:
They added the "P" when they went to CNC equipment to duplicate the risers the same, time after time in 2002. Prior to 2002 they were done by hand. CNC stands for "Computer Numerical Control". You can input offsets into the lathe and reproduce riser after riser to the same dimensions. The "P" bows have "Precision Crafted" on them vs "Hand Crafted" prior to CNC. The "P" signifies Precision and not Phenolic. Hope this helps.
The "P" may stand for precision. But you can get a SA made today. It will still be made on the cnc but it just doesnt have the phonlic in the limb wedge. So wouldnt it make more sense for the "P" to stand for phonlic?
QuoteOriginally posted by shadman:
Tod, go down to the Waterloo expo in March. I believe that Blackwidow will be there and you can see, handle,and shoot all ot their models as well as talk to the Blackwidow folks.
Hmmmm....checking Google maps.
I have a CHX 58" 50@28 and love it and to top it off it is all Osage that has darkened up real nice.
I also have a PTFX 60"50@28 Birds Eye Maple that I am thinking about selling so I can get a KB.
Tod I really think you will be pleased shooting a Widow. Very well designed and solid shooters. Not top of the heap in any one area but overall pretty good performers. A variety of lengths and style to fit almost everyone out there and a solid company to back them up.
Best of luck in your search... .Shoot over to the classifies, find me a nice set of binos and heck you can have mine. lol.
Take care
Mo
I've owned 3 a MA,TF & PSA and they are okay I guess,,,you'll have one in 3 months which is cool, very good company that stand by their products, for me they where a bit sensitive to shoot and louder than my other recurves using the same arrows.
the asbell grips are the best, they pull very smooth, and they take a god aweful beaten (have you seen their 1st video of what they did to that recurve)
I guess I liked mine but I wouldn't buy another one again unless I had to,,,l,with me its kinda "I've been there and done that" with the Black widows,,,,,they made their mark in my trad memories..
It really would be worth the drive to Waterloo to check them out, ask questions and shoot them side by side.
MAn I wish I could get my self to one of the big trad show.... Some one in Alaska should organize one!! They are next door to me!
I have a SAX and a CHX I like the ones without the phenolic but one of the difference between the two is that the psa is cut 3/16 past center and the pch is only cut 1/8 past center the psax is more forgiving on arrow spine. I love my widows they are built to be very easy to shoot and very forgiving I have never shot any bow easyier to shoot then a widow I am torn between the two if I had to choose just one I may have to go with my SAX but it would be a hard choice. My SAX is 58" and pch is 56" I am going to ordor 56" for my SAX and then the choice would be harder and I would go with the SAX I think just to hard to choose. It does not matter the one you go with you just can't go wrong with a widow and they will take a licking and keep on ticking. Widow
Its much like anything else in life, its as simple... or as complicated as you care to make it!
They do have bows that are ready to ship on their web sight. It takes two to three weeks to get one. I did the try before you buy program after I told them my needs. I found one in their stock and had it it two weeks.