I am shooting 63# @ 32 inches bob lee signature recurve with 150 grain tusker heads. I really like these heads and know that they are not to blame. When I shoot the broadheads I can see my nock kick up and the shot is ALWAYS low. I have read OL Adcock and tried every nock point from 1/8 to 5/8 and it is always always low. I am very angry and cannot figure this out. My field points fly really great at 3/8. Why is my nock kicking up when it has a broad head on it???
DK
I am also shooting 3 under.
What are the shafts and are your heads and field boints the same weight? Whats your fletching like? you can always try adjusting the nock point if the arrow is spined correctly for the bow and head weight.
Keep moving your nock up and down and see if you can get it to go nock low. If you can't it's in your form. Put a piece of masking tape on shelf and see if you can see any arrow contact.
i had consistent nock high problems off the shelf due to my release style. i am so consistent i didn't want to change. i went to a brush rest and retuned. now i can shoot a bareshaft up to 40 yards!
33 inch beman 300 field points are 145 and Bh are 150. I shoot 5 inch shield but feathers left wing.
DK
5/8" isn't all that high really. If you start at 7/8" or so and work your way down you won't get a false nock hi reading. Some guys need 2 nock pts. I use 2.
I would say start your nock point about 1/2 high than go from there. Your arrows sound stiff though for that bow. I would think a 340 with that point weight would be a better match for you. I agree with Onewhohasfun 5/8" is not high that's exactly where my tomahawk likes its nock point.
All right, I just got back in and raised my nock to 3/4. At 20 yards my field points are still driving nails. My broad heads no longer kick up but still hit 5 inches low everytime. according to the OL Adcock I need to lower my knock point to bring the groups together but when I get below 5/8 the nock starts to kick up. I have shot 1 million arrows so I need to stop for the day. I guess tomorrow I will try 7/8. What does 2 nocks do for you? Keep in mind I am fairly new.
Thanks for the input guys,
DK
Two nock points will keep the arrow from sliding down the string as the string moves forward under power. There is a nice video that shows it, maybe some one can post it.
If the nock end of your arrow was slipping down the string, you might end up with the arrow bouncing off the shelf. Raising it up far enough to prevent the bounce might leave you with a nock point that is too high. Either way you end up with the arrow leaving the bow nock high. Have you tried bare shafts?
If you are shooting three under though, you might need a pretty high nock point. My favorite recurve is tillered split finger and I need to get the nock point up 7/8" or so to tune well shooting three under.
Dkdc, Sometimes the arrow will slide down the string at release. If the arrow slides down far enough it will bounce up off the self. A nock point below the arrow will prevent this. You don't want the two nock points to pinch the arrow, leave just little play. You may also want to check to see that your broadheads are spinning true. Good luck to you.
Have you tried shooting a group of bareshafts with the exact same specs as your group of fletched arrows to see how they group differently. You may need an even higher nocking point though as I use a 5/8" high nocking point shooting split fingered.
A Broadhead arrow and a field point arrow are NOT the same animal even when the BH and field point are of the same weight... The dynamics and stress upon release effect the arrow spine... So one MUST tune for broadheads...
Some people THINK their arrows shoot the same, but (they) don't... Did you spin your broadheads? Do they "spin true"? Are you shooting a group of broadhead arrows or just one arrow? It's easy to get turned off and confused at this point. Don't give up. It will come together soon enough. The answer will be a simple one...
... mike ...
Did you start with bare shaft to fletched tuning? Since I started using this method, I have not had any issues or need to further tune with broadheads once I had the bare shaft to fletched tune perfect.
If you can't get the arrows to tune no matter what you are either having form error issues or spine issues.
i will start with some bare shafts tomorrow. I spun my heads on a cutting board to check for wobble, but that was it.
I dont want to shoot a group of heads because I might hit my other arrows. Should I shoot them as groups?
I agree with Ragnarok Forge 100% once you bare shaft tune you probably will not need to even bother bh tuning.
There is something very wrong. I just shot a bare shaft at 20 yards and the nock kicked so high the arrow hit in front of my target and went under it. That was after I raised my nock up to 7/8. I am totaly lost. The broadhead shot a little higher though.
Dk
You don't want to shoot broadheads as groups! I should have said... Have three arrows ready... Shoot one, pull it out. Shoot another, pull it out and so on... As someone posted above... Your shooting form might play a hand in this...
Who Said This Trad Stuff Was Simple?! :knothead:
... mike ...
If you nock is riding that high and the arrow is hitting that low, it's most likely that the nock's kicking off the riser. If your arrows were spined correctly and your nock point was just set a little high the nock would leave high but the arrow would correct it self and should hit relatively close to your other arrows. Try raising your nock point to 1" and putting a second nock on your set up below the arrow. If the nock rides high but the arrow isn't shooting lower that your field points move the nocks down an 1/8" and shoot again. As Mcground said earlier, your BH tipped arrows will shoot stiffer than the same arrows with same weight field points. I'll often shoot a fp that's 25-30 grains lighter than my BH's when tuning or bareshaft with a fp until it's acting slightly weak. Fletching and sticking the BH on the end nearly always leaves me with a perfectly tuned arrow.
I have tried to shoot carbons but none work for me, cannot bareshaft tune them, aluminums fixed that problem for me.
Did you check for contact on the shelf? Most likely on the outside edge.
4 point, what would you do to correct if you're getting shelf contact on the outside edge of the shelf? Seems that 's where mine always wears...
A brush or feather rest or one of the elevated rests. People will tell you that you can't shoot instinctively off a rest and that's just plain not true. Your mind will compensate for the higher arrow placement. If your getting a contact mark on the outside of your shelf your arrow isn't flying true. You will notice the improvement when you put a rest on plus your groups will get smaller.
Dk you never said if your shooting split finger or 3 under?????
i shoot 3under and need a nocking point above and below the arrow nock,with 3 under on release the arrow slides down the string and gives you the crazy nock high!
"JJB2" and "groundstalker" have you on the right track
Doug check the weight of the tuskers because they are 125 without ads most ads are 45grs ..
Thanks Shane
I am shooting three under and the outside of my shelf is worn. I will get an elevated rest I guess. I will also weigh the heads.
thanks guys.
DK
Shane I dont have a scale. I am shooting the 150 grain javalins. You are saying that the screw in insert makes them 45 grains heavier. If that is correct then they actually weigh 195. That would make them hit lower for sure. I will find a scale.
thanks for the tip
Doug
I'm with MIke Walker on this. I was about to suggest the same thing. I have found that if I can get a bare shaft to shoot straight I never have problems with broadheads. On the other hand, when I shot off the shelf some broadheads just didn't shoot well. With an elevated rest and plunger all that changed. Once I get the rest and plunger shooting bare shafts well I can shoot any broadhead of a reasonable same weight without problems. If you have some other broadheads try them out and see what happens. If some others shoot ok then you have to decide either switch broadheads or try an elevated rest of some sort in order to get Tuskers to shoot well. You might also find raising and lowering your brace height might make a difference.
QuoteOriginally posted by DKdc:
Shane I dont have a scale. I am shooting the 150 grain javalins. You are saying that the screw in insert makes them 45 grains heavier. If that is correct then they actually weigh 195. That would make them hit lower for sure. I will find a scale.
thanks for the tip
Doug
He's talking about heads without adapters, you're shooting the 150 factory screw in heads, two different animals. They screw ins weigh about 160 raw and will weigh right about 150 after you sharpen them.
Like the others mentioned, bare shafting is the way to go, once you're properly bare shafted it's not likely you'll need to make any adjustments for broadheads. I shoot three under also and some bows take to it much better with an elevated rest, so a good option to consider.
If you need further assistance please feel free to ask, I'd be happy to help.
braveheartarchery@gmail.com
How high is your elbow (string hand) at full draw? Draw back facing a mirror if you don't know. Just sounds like a form/release issue to me.
I dont know how high my elbow is. I will investigate, it should be straight back and level like the arrow right? I have tried pretty much everything from brace height, nock adjustment all the way up to one inch with no success. I am sure it is a form issue. I think i will try an elevated rest and see what happens. I am still pretty frustrated and had to give up for the day so I dont go crazy.
Thanks for all the help.
DK
I believe a bear weatherest, or hair type rest would help you a lot. I had a buddy having fits with arecurve, trying to shoot off the shelf, was convinced that was the only way to go, even though the bow was shooting the lights out when I sold it to him, with a elevated rest, with the same arrows he could not get to shoot right. He kept calling, having fits, for about 2 weeks until he finally mentioned he was shooting off the shelf. His form is not that great, so we put a elevate rest back on and instantly the problems disappeared, with field points or broadheads. You need to be open minded and use what works, which is not always what we want.
Try putting a small, thin piece of velcro or other material on your shelf directly above the throat of the grip but leave some space on the outside edge and about 1/4" - "1/8" of space between the shelf material and the inside of the riser. The small piece of material will give you some elevation. Also, tie the second nock under the arrow. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that the arrow slides down the string at release when shooting 3-under. I shoot three under, bow is tillered for 3 under and I still use a 3/4" nock height and a second nock. My shelf was wearing on the outside as well.
Elevated rest might also cure it as others have said but I've never much cared for the aesthetic of them myself.
I would also check your brace height. If your brace height is too low it won't matter where your nock point is, it will shoot bad.
I've come to realize that some BH's just don't shoot well out of certain shafts.
This problem is one that I honestly can't explain.
My solution: Buy different broadheads and cross your fingers. Of course, this is a personal solution that has worked for me.
Case in point: Muzzy Phantoms won't fly for me out of my setup. Magnus Stingers (same size) fly like a dream.
My two cents...
- JJ
I am going to give an elevated rest a try. Thanks for all the input guys, I appreciate everyones willingness to help me.
DK
I didnt read all the responces but have you tried 2 knock points. Check for a high elbow
I think with some people shootin a broadhead is a mental and form thing....
I remove field point and put on the same weight broadhead and have no problems....
Quite often this false nock high reading is cause by the shooter torquing the bowstring when the pull the string back. Go to the "Shooter's Form" forum and read/watch some of the videos on release.
Bottom line is this. You string hand, forearm, entire arm needs to be completely relaxed. NO TENSION except for the small amount required to keep you fingers hooked on the string. You want your back muscles doing the pulling and your string hand/arm free of all tension.
I had this exact problem and spent a couple weeks with a blind bale working on my form. The problem went away. I went through all kinds of contortions with my equipment and arrows/spines/paper tuning/broadhead weight/$$$$ etc. And in the end it was my form.
Great forum with a lot of good info. Always something to learn. :coffee:
post a pic of you at full draw on here.
side,front and back maybe we can figure this out?
and like kentucky jeff said you could be torquing the string alot of new shooters do that not realizing its going on, it took awhile the break a friend of that after that was fixed he had great arrow flight
have you tried any other broadheads? I know you said you like the ones you are using, but may I ask why you like them if you can't get them to fly straight? It may not fix the problem, but it may be worth a try...
OK, I got my elevated rest and my nock kicking high problem is gone. I have really been working on keeping my elbow down so my string arm forearm is straight in line with my arrow. my bare shafts group with my fletched shafts at 15 yards but the nock is way left and my fletched shafts are consistently a little nock right. When the bare shaft comes out of the bow the nock kicks out to the left and stays out there.
Thanks for all the help fellas.
dk