I think I'm going to bite the bullet and buy a 4 person tipi and stove. Anyone own a tipi? Looking for feedback on how they function in the rain and snow (with no floor), are they worth the coin, etc.?
I have a couple buds that have, I think the 6 person model. One guy brought his to AK and we moose hunted out of it last year, talk about sweet comfort. It withstood pretty strong winds. 100% HAVE to have the liner as it will trap condensation between it and the outer tipi. I liked it so much I will for sure be asking one or both of thee guys to hunt with me this year, lol.
Thanks Steve, so the inside wall got pretty wet with condensation inside with the heat from the stove and the cold outside air? I was debating on whether or not the liner would be necessary. What size stove did you guys use?
I own the eight man. I've got 5 full seasons in mine and its going strong. I love it. I have mostly elk hunted out of mine, but I've had it in Alaska, and on numerous float trips.
I think the four man would be too small personally, unless you are planning solo hunts.
Tipis really have limited space compared to wall tents based on the footprint.
IMO, One of the biggest advantages is being able to stand up in it. I don't think you could do that comfortably in a four man. Heck, the eight man fits 2 maybe three guys comfortable with cots and gear. We joke every year they must be counting dwarves when they rate these things. :)
The stove is collapsable and thus not sealed. It will eat wood as fast as you can add it. Seems its an inferno or out. :)
But, given its weight, its nice to have some fire, rather than none. I'm thinking of investing in a a sealed titanium stove. We mainly fly, llama, or raft into our camps. The weight will be comparable, and bulk usually isn't an issue.
Hope that helps. PM me if you have more questions.
here is mine in the Eagle caps wilderness in 2003 (http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5220/5520583003_09320898cd.jpg) I like it very much
I bought an 8 man Seekoutside tipi this past fall, and here is a picture of the first time I set it up. Yes I agree the liner is a MUST HAVE. I didn't install the liner, once it dried out, the liner got put it. I would say 3 guys and gear TOPS.
(http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab28/miklvines/IMG_0022-3.jpg)
Absolutely are excellent in wind, snow & rain. Make sure it's seam sealed well though.
One bit of advice I would offer is to buy one twice the size you think you will need. I have a 12 man and it will accommodate 6 hunters comfortably, 8 tight. I can't imagine 12 in it although they would fit. It's great with four hunters and all the gear.
As someone else said, the stove is either roaring or out.
I really like the simplicity and ease of the kifaru tipi and don't think you can go wrong with it.
Zane
Ps: no liner either unless you live where it's humid which ain't where I live.
Worth looking at the Seekoutside stuff- much better pricing and good quality.
GoLite makes the ShangriLa series and Titanium Goat makes a nice Tipi. I had the ShangriLa 5 [2# 6oz I think it was] and a small stove [1# 4oz]I made for it. It has the cool factor but the condensation was just terrible.
You really have to pitch these tipis tight otherwise it will feel like its raining on you with the fabric flexing. You can pitch them a few inches off the ground to help with condensation but then they are real breezy and you can get varmints/snakes. The liners are nice but then the weight goes up diminishing the ultra light advantage. The floorspace is deceivingly large in diagrams due to Catenary design- much unusable space around the perimeter. I'll stay with my HS tarptent for backpacking, YMMV
Zane, I'm going to be moving to CO, right outside Fort Collins, July '13. Do you have any condensation issues in the winter with the cold air outside and the stove going inside? My buddy and I hunted the Weminuche the fall before last in late Oct and froze our butts off most nights and the tents filled with condensation from just our body heat. I'm looking forward to warm winter nights and mornings in this tipi.
Based on what you guys are telling me, sounds like a 6 man at min for my buddy and I.
Thanks all for the feedback. Very helpful.
I got a 6 man and its good for me and gear comfortably or two people a little less spacious ecspecially with stove. The time it really shines through is when its ten below and the stove is goin and im toasty. Even by yourself i reccomend a 6 person minimum.
Love mine, agree with others get the liner. Sheep hunt 2008. performed great
(http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae298/bfreese_2010/IMG_0014.jpg)
I had a 4 man. Sold it and bought an 8 man and a Supertarp/Annex. You can't stand up in a 4man unless you are Brunner sized...
Liner is definitely worth the cost and weight.
QuoteOriginally posted by JJB2:
Do you have any condensation issues in the winter with the cold air outside and the stove going inside? My buddy and I hunted the Weminuche the fall before last in late Oct and froze our butts off most nights and the tents filled with condensation from just our body heat. I'm looking forward to warm winter nights and mornings in this tipi.
This may help answer your question.
I used my shangrila 5 8 miles into the Weiminuche wilderness with one buddy on a pack in hunt in 76 two years ago. Camped at 10,800 hunting to 12,000 [archery elk season last 2 weeks] Tipi was pitched tight to the ground. Temps would drop to freezing almost every night. The condensation would freeze on tent wall and be just running down the wall [and on us] in the AM when we fired up the stove. 'This ain't no wall tent" my buddy said every morning. It probably would have been better without the stove. Roomy enough for 2 with gear but no way you get 3 big guys in that especially with the stove since you need a little clearance.
They are easy to setup and move- our strategy on a backcountry elk hunt and are very strong even with 30D fabric of the SL's. You have to pay attention if you are using a down bag or put clothes along the perimeter.
I have a three man from Wyoming Lost and Found. My dad and I spent two weeks in it elk hunting. Used a small tarp to cover some of our gear. Rained every day but two, we stayed dry for the most part. A stove would have been nice. Mine is made out of tarp material and reasonably priced. Check them out, very good people to deal with. A guy I work with has a Kifaru. He said its nice, but not sure it's worth what he paid for it.
I have a 6-person, which is big enough for two people, tight for three. Condensation is an issue in humid climates. The stove will drive out the condensation, but as already mentioned, the stoves are small and don't stay lit long if you don't keep feeding them. In short, the stove won't stop the condensation that will occur overnight from your body heat, unless you wake up every half hour to stoke it. BTW, I have a medium stove. I tie my doors partially open so the moisture can escape during the evening, daytime, too, for that matter.
In warm weather, placing a nylon tarp on the ground to cover as much space inside the tent as possible will reduce the condensation on the tent walls because it seriously slows the moisture that might be pulled from the ground. Condensation in Western states/mountains in September usually isn't too bad, and I don't use a ground cloth there to save pack space and weight.
I don't have a liner. It takes up as much space and weighs as much as the tent. Sort of defeats the purpose of an ultralight tent/stove. On the other hand, if you don't have to pack it in, or pack only a short distance, a liner might be a good idea.
What will you use it for? if you don't back pack hunt, I think there is better stuff out there... but if you are packing the tent in on you back with the rest of your gear, then they are hard to beat!
I have a SnowTrekker Exp Short Wall wall tent, that is great for up to 4 people with a wood stove that run for up to 5hrs, and the tent and frame weight in at 27# and the stove, is about 16#. Definitely not something you can pack on your back for really long... but for truck, boat, canoe assisted hunt, it is the best!
Zane, I'm going to be moving to CO, right outside Fort Collins, July '13. Do you have any condensation issues in the winter with the cold air outside and the stove going inside? My buddy and I hunted the Weminuche the fall before last in late Oct and froze our butts off most nights and the tents filled with condensation from just our body heat. I'm looking forward to warm winter nights and mornings in this tipi.
My experience( in very cold weather near uncomphagre pk) was the condensation was present, but wasn't a problem as long as you didn't lean against the side of the tipi. I wouldn't have wanted the extra weight for as small of a problem as it was. Most Colorado/NM weather is such that there are big storms followed quickly by very cold nights & warmish days.
Now, if you are not packing in, maybe a liner is worth the weight
Best to you in Fort Collins. That's my retirement destination. Btw, Kifaru is worth every penny...made in America and you can actually talk to the person that sewed your tipi, who designed it, who marketed it and who shipped it. If you have a complaint, theyll fix it. Pretty rare in todays world.
Got the 8 and the 16 man. 8 man for drop camps and 16 man by myself as basecamp. You need the liner unless you camp in very dry climates. Even in a wet elk season in CO the liner helps greatly.
It takes a while to get the hang of how to fire up the stoves so that the tipi heats up quick. The 16 man took 10 min at first to get warm. After 4 weeks in elk camp it took a merely 2 min to heat up the place. It wasn't even worth it getting back into the sleeping bag anymore...
The fabric is ultrastrong and that what makes the tent so expensive.
One year it snowed every other day and was generally a very wet season. I stayed the whole season in comfort. I usually have about a weeks supply of firewood in the tent. The concept is to use the stove in the morning, for cooking and in the evening in order to get to bed dry. It is great to dry wet clothes as well. It is not thought to be a continiously running stove. Use a good sleeping bag with artificial fibers, they even stay warm when wet and dry quick. If the weather turns foul, I can sit it out.....
Check out the Cylinder stoves. I have the small Scout in my 8X10 wall tent and love it.
http://www.outfitterwarehouse.com/heavy-stove-cylinder-stoves-c-22_23_24.html?gclid=CIXomYOwu60CFQQCQAodxDX3BQ
I own the 16-man with a Four-Dog titanium stove, have used it now for about 7 seasons, and there's nothing that can touch it for comfort. You absolutely need the liner.
If you're not flying in or hiking in and can handle the bulk and weight of a wall tent + steel wood stove that combo is hard to beat too.
My 16-man is over 22' in diameter. With the titanium stove, titanium stove pipe, pegs, liner (guts, feathers, and all) it weighs 37#. Not bad for a warm, dry shelter that can stand horrendous winds and keep you warm and dry in very cold weather.
Ron, you are truly a bull of a mountain man. These tipis we are talking about are coming in at 8-12# WITH the stove! I love my Hunter Cylinder Stove for the wall tent, but there isn't one model they make that is going in a backpack.
We need titanium...
:biglaugh:
It took me about 20 minutes to type that because of interruptions. Sorry for the crisscross!
QuoteRon, you are truly a bull of a mountain man. These tipis we are talking about are coming in at 8-12# WITH the stove! I love my Hunter Cylinder Stove for the wall tent, but there isn't one model they make that is going in a backpack.
That's what God made pack mules for Steve... :biglaugh:
I'm backpack only at this point fellas. Once I move out to CO I see a horse or two in my future. Thanks all for the info.
Anybody else have experience with the seekoutside tipis? Price is right and what I'm seeing online in the way of reviews is very positive. That might be the way to go...
I've had an 8man kifaru for many years. I would not go smaller unless you do alot of two guys or less stuff, and/or are ounce-conscious.
As noted, the kifaru stoves are drafty. I switched to a one-piece, airtight, and love it.
My thoughts on seekoutside, FWIW, are that:
A, I would not hesitate to use one.
B, they are a new company and not "established".
C. The Kifaru design is such that
the many "panels" that make up the tipi have reinforced seams every few feet and so might be stronger and/or 'guys' could be sewn in at those points.
D. When seekoutside does get established, and if they start making bigger tipis, I'll probably get one.
Jarrett, I have a 6 man and stove. I took it to Alaska a few years ago on a moose float hunt and it worked well for 2 people. Did not use a liner. Stove needs to be fed often, actually caught the grass on fire below the stove! With all the gear inside the tent, it would have been very crowded with 3 people. I live in Columbus, IN. If you make the drive down this way for some reason, I could show you the tent and stove. Unfortunately, I have not had reason to use it for a while but am keeping it for "that next hunt".
Unless you enjoy close company, an 8-man Kifaru is right for 2 guys and gear on an extended trip. I bought one several years ago and it's what we use every September in Alaska. I would feel a bit squeezed in a 6-man for sure. We run a medium stove, which is very adequate for temps down to 20F. The liner is a (non)option. I simply wouldn't have a tipi without one. The absence of a floor worried me at first. Now I see it as 100% advantage for the hunter. I'd actually hate to go back to a conventional tent, partly due to housekeeping duties inside.
The tipi has been well accepted, and now competition is heating up. I think you might find a half-dozen or more companies building tipis now. These include Titanium Goat, Kifaru, Go-Lite, Seek Outside and others. They all have their proponents and users who love them. The hardest thing is actually seeing one in action before buying. I was able to see one that belonged to Angelo Christiano and that convinced me. I admit to liking Kifaru. That's mainly because they build military-ready and battle-tested outdoor gear. I know they are tough, and I know Patrick and company stand behind (and under) their products.
Be open minded and continue to do research. Look for basics and try to ignore the "fluff". If you're going to use it hard, and need it to protect you in severe conditions, buy one that is built that way.
I have a Kifaru 4 man and medium stove which I have used a bit. It is definitely on the small side but I bought it to be the lightest stove heated tent I could barely stand up in ( at 5'8" on a good day). I am an experienced ultralight backpacker so this combo is considered heavy for me, but I do know that with a bit of experience and "know how" these small tents can work. First, as a backpacker I can tell you that you can sleep 4 people in this tepee with stove and a bit of firewood - each person gets 24"x78" on the ground for them and nooks and cranny around the edges for their gear. Sleeping on even low cots makes this impossible for 4 people. Everything not needed goes outside in plastic bags including extra firewood. To get extra height and reduce condensation pitch it so there is a space between the bottom and the ground - as much as 6" works - the gap can be filled with evergreen boughs if rain or snow blows in to an objectionable degree. Last point regarding the stove - I personally find it of limited value for cooking - it is great for melting snow and will eventually make hot water and will allow slow simmering but it's tough to get a
boil. It does a good job of drying clothes but be careful. No small stove I'd want to carry will have enough mass to hold enough heat to make sleeping much warmer - carry a couple pounds extra in sleeping bags and especially in pads and let the fire go out. I have experimented with the stove by adding locally gathered thermal mass in the form of rocks piled all around it and it helps but isn't really worth the trouble unless you are going to insulate the tent with an outer airspace formed with poles, evergreen branches and snow - something I'd do for an all winter camp in a survival situation but not otherwise.
Bottom line - only get the four man if you are used to sleeping in small backpacking tents at their rated occupancy and are willing to live with minimum headroom - forget it if you are over 5'8".
Sounds like some of you guys need the new Kifaru Sawtooth, you could jump up and down in it, it accommodates 2 nicely and 3 in a pinch it all weighs 4.8 lbs. without the liner. I have no stove as yet but it is a great tipi. My Kifaru Sawtooth, + a Ti stove I plan on getting, + Kifaru KU3700 backpack weigh around 10 lbs. That is really light, Patrick really knows what he's doing.
He does most of his testing out in the woods, that's his office, I heard that the KU packs were in the works for 10 years before he came out with them, he wants his stuff bomb proof!
QuoteOriginally posted by njloco:
Sounds like some of you guys need the new Kifaru Sawtooth, you could jump up and down in it, it accommodates 2 nicely and 3 in a pinch it all weighs 4.8 lbs. without the liner. I have no stove as yet but it is a great tipi. My Kifaru Sawtooth, + a Ti stove I plan on getting, + Kifaru KU3700 backpack weigh around 10 lbs. That is really light, Patrick really knows what he's doing.
He does most of his testing out in the woods, that's his office, I heard that the KU packs were in the works for 10 years before he came out with them, he wants his stuff bomb proof!
I missed out on your Spike Camp Ken, but I was able to find another, and it shipped out UPS this morning. From what I gather, they are the cream of the crop when it comes to packs.
Mike, you will love that Spike, it is the perfect size for a good day, or two hunt. I miss mine and will probably try to get another before the spring. We have the East coast Kifaru rendezvous coming up, and I am hoping to make it. It will be my first time using the Sawtooth in the winter and first time ever using the KU3700.
I am hoping to do a bivy elk hunt this coming season, that is when I'll really get a chance to use the Kif gear.
Good luck with your Spike camp.
QuoteOriginally posted by njloco:
Mike, you will love that Spike, it is the perfect size for a good day, or two hunt. I miss mine and will probably try to get another before the spring. We have the East coast Kifaru rendezvous coming up, and I am hoping to make it. It will be my first time using the Sawtooth in the winter and first time ever using the KU3700.
I am hoping to do a bivy elk hunt this coming season, that is when I'll really get a chance to use the Kif gear.
Good luck with your Spike camp.
Trying to get all my gear ready for a trip to Hog Heaven in March, and then a hunting trip to Hawaii later this year.
If I didn't have to work all weekend, I would have camped out in the tipi. Hard to pass up this nice weather we are having.
Ahhhh, a G2 Spike Camp or even better a Late Season or Timberline 2! So many great options. I have a KU5200 coming in a couple weeks. Can't wait.
8 man is great for two guys to hunt out of in comfort. With my 4 man, we built a lean to to keep our extra stuff under. Even so, it was cozy for two.
The Timberlines are real nice, and they already have the pockets but also weigh much more than the KU line as you already know. I am getting older now and appreciate light weight. I am considering one of those titanium stoves the one I am looking at for my Sawtooth weighs only 2-3lbs, or I might make my own.
Steve, an 8 man for two guys seems like it would be a mansion to me, but a Sawtooth definitely will handle two people with room to spare. My only problem is getting time to use it.
QuoteOriginally posted by njloco:
Steve, an 8 man for two guys seems like it would be a mansion to me, but a Sawtooth definitely will handle two people with room to spare. My only problem is getting time to use it.
Amen on the time off! I looked at the Sawtooth. The trouble with that along with the 4 and 6 man is their height is max right where the stove is. I am 6-1. I don't mind not being able to stand up in my 1# Super Tarp, but if I am going to carry the weight, I am going to be able to stand up STRAIGHT whenever I want during the two weeks I call the tipi home. And yes, it is very luxurious for two guys in the 8 man, the best part is getting to split up the weight on the pack trip.
I'm sold on the 8 man as far as size. I have some time before I have to pull the trigger so I can try and find a few to look at up close before making my decision. Thanks all. Appreciate the help.
http://www.edtsbackcountry.com/ Great spot to pick up a cylinder stove for your tipi. Ed used to make the box stoves for kifaru (now his buddy Levi does)
He also runs a damn good class geared towards backpack hunting.
I've spent some time in Kifaru tipis, Golite SL3 and SL4, and I've played with a Seek Outside tipi some (I wanna say it was his 3 man) I hunt solo a lot, and really like the Supertarp with Annex and Para stove for that. I may pick up Seek Outsides new EdT Backcountry shelter to replace the Supertarp (Its 2 Lbs 10 oz for almost double the room)
Now when I hunt with my buddy Ed, we take his Sawtooth and my medium stove. Thats a friggin palace for two guys that can be backpacked. Tent is 4 Lbs 10 Oz, and the stove is another 4ish. I really like Patrick and his company, and spending a couple days around him was a friggin eye opener. But his stuff is EXPENSIVE. I think that Kevin (seekoutside) makes just as good of tipis and tarp tents. Wyoming Lost and Found is a loser with a drinking problem, and I would not do business with him.
Supertarp in front, Golite SL3 in the back
(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/20647066/395250976.jpg)
and my SL4 on a 9 day Elk trip in the Bob Marshall 2 seasons back
(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL152/10882229/20647066/395250822.jpg)
Hey, good luck JJB2, whatever decision you make on a Kifaru tipi, it won't be a wrong one. If you go on the Kifaru web site, into the forums area, look under Trading post, you can probably find a used one cheap from someone who is going up or down in size.
Good luck.
Steve, I guess I luck out in the height department when it comes to tipis as I am only 5'9" and have no trouble standing up in it, I guess it's good to be shorter sometimes. I know on my Sawtooth I can lengthen the front poll a lot for taller people, just have to do it when initially setting up as the pegs have to be moved in a little, don't know if your aware of this or not.
Ken, I did not think of that. I was only going off of the dimensions on the website and the videos Patrick has with his buddy Sawtooth. They are both about your size if I remember right. But it has been about 10 years since I have talked to Patrick in person.
If your getting along good with the eight man, I would think your better off as you have plenty of room, if weight becomes an issue then consider the sawtooth.
I think Patrick is a bit taller than I, I have never met his friend Sawtooth. I hope to see Patrick at the East coast Rondy this year. You know, it's pretty amazing that Patrick attends all of the Rendezvous in the country every year!, I think that is really cool.
Hey Dan,
Nice camp, I see you have plenty of firewood in the background.
Thanks Dan, I like those cylinder stoves.