I'm a newbie to Trad but have 25 years of hunting experience with compounds. I've only shot a couple deer with the Trad Rig and the only blood trail I had to follow was sparse. The animal was double lunged at 13 yards. I had a complete pass thru and it broke a rib on exit. The arrow was firmly stuck in the ground. I shot her with a 580 grain (total weight) arrow with a A Boyer Javelina Lite single bevel broadhead. I was able to track the deer without too much trouble, but it was sparse compared to my compound bow trails. I shoot Spitfires.
I'm not bashing A Bowyer at all because one blood trail is one blood trail. I'd just like some opinions on broad heads and blood trails. Thanks,
To be honest you will get a lot of opinions. Two blade, three blade, four blade, ect. All broadheads can give good and bad blood trails depending on sharpness, how well the arrow hits the mark, and how the broadhead works with the arrow. If you use the search button up top you can search numerous threads about what heads are better and such. Its all about opinions and what you like in a head.I personaly feel that no head is better than another,just that some work better for others. All in all a well placed arrow with a sharp head will get the job done.Good luck in your search.Tim
"Best" is subjective.
I've seen some great blood trails from people arrowing animals with huge 2 blade Simmons broadheads.
Ditto from some smaller 3 and 4 blade blade broadheads.
I still think it comes down to where the arrow enters and exits the animal.
Too high up on a lung shot deer and the animal's blood drains into the body cavity regardless if it's been hit with a 2, 3 or 4 blade broadhead. This type of placement isn't so good in producing a great blood trail.
Time for me to check on the popcorn I put in the microwave oven when I read this topic. ;)
Sharp and installed in the right place on the animal and they should all work.Also how many blades they have has some bearing with the wgt. of the bow.
I don't think there is a holy grail when it comes to broadheads. Mostly it depends on the shot angle and having complete penetration. I've seen great blood trails and poor blood trails with the same broadhead. I'd say, pick one you can get scary sharp and that flies well from your bow so that you can hit the vitals. That won't guarantee a great blood trail, but it's about the best you can do.
You will probably get tons of recommendations, all well intended. We each have our favorites. I use Zwickey Deltas with my Kanati. My Shelton doesn't seem to care for them. At the same weight it shoots Grizzly El Grandes way better. I don't know why; it just does. I've had great blood trails with Snuffers and Woodsmen if you want to use three blades. They take a bit more practice to learn to sharpen than the two blade variety though.
I find shot placement to be the most important factor in creating a blood trail as it should be a given that whichever head that you choose will be razor sharp. I have used 3 heads over 18 seasons shooting longbows. The heads are the Journeyman (now called Eclipse), Zwickey both Deltas and Eskimos and the Bear Super Razor head. All heads have been 2 blade double bevel. Of these three Zwickey has been used the most and each of the three heads have performed equally and dependent on shot placement. If they fly straight and hit medium height on entrance and pass through fairly low upon exit, there will be a good flowing bloodtrail to follow.
160grn Snuffer is the best for Me...YMMV
Lot of variables here to consider w/penetration the key IMO. Completely through vitals into the dirt opposite should yield quick kill & good bloodtrail. Not always.
An arrow stuck inside may block blood flow. Several times seen deer bleed huge internally with little external. Bloodtrail is also conditional upon which organ is hit where. Heart usually sprays blood. DBL Lungs leak good quantities of bubble blood. Liver, you're on your own. BH's will start a debate. IMO, one is good as the other if razor sharp. Prefer 2-blade Ace 160gr. Glad of your concern to handle this issue. Very important. Well done newb!
I'm an avid shooter of the older, green Bear Razorheads but they are not easily found. Zwickey and Ace both make quality two blade heads.The Wensel Woodsman would be my choice in a 3 blade model. They will all leave adequate blood trails if you hit the critter in the boiler room and get full penetration. Shoot straight and "Keep'Um Sharp".
I have had good bloodtrails with 3 blades that I got scary sharp. These include the original Woodsman, Snuffers and VPA's.
Put them where it counts and all are pretty equal.
160 Snuffers have impressed me the most.
you said finding your deer was no problem,so I would say the Broadhead did its job. Like Nightwing said, sometimes the blood drains down into the chest cavity
I agree with what's posted above, there is a lot more to blood trails than just the broadhead. However everything else being equal, I consider Snuffers and the Simmons heads to be at the head of the class for putting blood on the ground. The big Magnus I 4 blade is probably in the same league as those two, but I've not had any first hand experience with it.
QuoteOriginally posted by Uncle Buck:
you said finding your deer was no problem,so I would say the Broadhead did its job. Like Nightwing said, sometimes the blood drains down into the chest cavity
Finding the deer was no problem, but I've been spoiled by walking right down the blood trail right to the deer. I some cases, I've been able to visually see the blood trail from the tree.
This particular animal had a mid chest entry and exit just above the heart on exit side. The perfect shot placement for ideal blood trailing. I just found it a little strange for the blood to be so sparse.
Cut on contact, very sharp and most accurate for you with your setup. Shot placement is way more important than head type for heavy blood trails. Also much more importance should be placed in getting your bow to shoot at its best (straightest).
This is a very subjective subject. There are so many variables it's hard to explain. I shot an antelope high in the lungs with very little blood, and shot a muley in the same area with a blood trail a blind man could follow with the same multiblade head. I don't know why, but keep them sharp and put them in the right place, that's all you can do. I've heard nothing but good about those heads though :dunno:
This year I came across a massive blood trail. I followed it 150 yards each direction from where I first found it. One way lead to private land that I did not have access and the other way would eventually mess up another hunters evening. There had been no rain and where the deer crossed open dirt there were no human foot prints. I asked around to see if someone lost a deer and got no responses. I have never lost a deer with a Hill or a Grizzly, but then most of the time I saw the deer go down and never checked the blood trail. For my lighter bows I am a bit nervous about using heads like Zwicky Deltas, but for the heavier bows, I have to admit, the blood trails, although they were not all the same, they certainly were adequate and took the deer down in short order.
I shot 2 blades (magnus) for years and harvested a lot of animals with them. About 10 years ago I switched to wensel woodsmans and the blood trails are MUCH better. I would never even consider a 2 blade again. I shoot recurves from 48-50 lbs @ 29 inches and get routine pass-throughs.
Low hits bleed a lot better then a high hit no matter the broadhead.
While I agree with most of the above replies,(shot placement, sharpness, exit hole, etc.) I have noticed that multiblades normally put more blood on the ground. I'm with BCD, Woodsmans give me the best bloodtrails with routine pass-throughs. For me, the 40 year search for the best deer broadhead is finally over!
I've shot a lot of different heads over the years, but from what I've learned besides sharp and in the right place is 2 holes are better then one, and the bigger the holes the more they tend to put blood on the ground.
Sounds pretty simple, but it truely is just that simple.
All else being equal, 160 Snuffers are hard to beat in my book. The Big Jim Big-3 (VPA) head is basically the same head but more solid. Haven't shot a big game animal with the Big-3 yet, but I'd expect the same results as the 160 Snuffer as far as blood on the ground.
Magnus 1's put some blood on the ground too, and I've never not had two holes when shooting them. Have only had two arrows actually stay in the critter and they were longer shots of 31 and 28 respectively.
Zwickey Delta 4-blades are also one of my favorites.
In my experience Simmons Treesharks and Big Snuffers put the most blood on the dirt.Regular size Simmons nest with a Magnus I. You gotta shoot Simmons Through some stuff before you appreciate a Great Bloodtrail.RC
Snuffers!!!!!!!!! :archer2:
In my humble opinion the best blood trails come from huge mulit bladed broadheads but were needed because of the trauma on impact. In simplistic terms the bigger the broadhead the bigger the blood trail BUT the more it was needed because they traveled farther due to the felt impact. period. To clarify a well hit animal with a two blade fell within site while a well hit animal with a huge multi blade bleed more but went farther from feeling the impact.
For me its a comprimise, a Magnus Stinger 4 blade. Shot two deer this year with a total tracking job of 50 yards both,neither left my sight. Have had the same results for the last several years. Ur mileage may vary but doubt it. And no I don't have any connections with Magnus.
That reminds me a a deer shot with a 140 grain Hill, it did not act like it was hit, I have had it with Grizzlies as well. You are right they don't go far and sometimes they don't hardly run.
Very intersting thread here and lots of good info.
Best is truly subjective
I have had my best results with Snuffers
I just got a bunch of Woodsmans . I have heard great things
Is this enough blood for you? Razorcap broadhead. The trail was only 30 yards.
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a322/Arrowworks/Bloodtrail1.jpg)
i have shot more whitetails than i can count over the years. i have shot them with the largest of 4 blades to the smallest of two blades. bloodtrails seem to be dependent on three factors:
1) sharpness
2) shot placement
3) penetration
over the years, i have concluded that the penetration was the most important factor in recovering my animals. that is why i always opt for a good strong two blade with a high mechanical advantage that is SCARY sharp!
i also wanted to note that most deer i have shot with a super sharp two blade usually don't act like they are hit and usually stop within 30 yards and die. no need for blood trails there!
I've shot about 75 deer over the last 32 years with 2 blade Zwickey Delta, 2 blade Magnus 125's, 2 blade grizzly, 2 blade Eclipse, 3 blade razorcaps and 3 blade Kustom King Trailmakers.
I've been on trails of at least 50 more up at Shrewhaven with varying heads.
Here's what I've found, IN GENERAL:
1) Two holes is important
2) Low exit is important
3) Grizzly head seemed to cause least reaction upon impact.
4) Double lung shot animal went less than 100 yards and usually less then 75.
5) 3 blade heads produced the most blood, no contest.
6) I don't think I could calculate a difference between length of travel between 2 blade heads and 3 blade heads.
7) If there's a high entrance, but no exit, 3 blade caused more blood to follow.
8) Three blade and two blade would stop on off shoulder knuckle/brisket bone and I don't think I could say one had an advantage over the other--both had only one hole in the deer.
9) I can always shave hair off my wrist with all my heads.
All that summarized.....I'm shooting 3 blade Kustom King Trailmakers. In the areas I hunt, I need to find the animal due to coyotes. I've learned how to sort out the trail of most deer, but on some it took good light the next morning. Now with increased yotes everywhere(and bears and wolves at Shrewhaven Lodge) I want the best trail I can get. That's a three blade head trail.
160 Snuffers the only broadhead i will use but i also would suggest at least 53lb at 28 to ensure two holes (http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj10/longbowben/DSCN1679.jpg)
P.S.
My best friend just shot a deer a week ago up behind his house on an evening hunt just prior to dark. The deer traveled parallel to the house and ended up dropping about 75 yards from the house. He went back to change clothes and his wife had dinner all ready to go (she wasn't confident in him bagging a deer) so he sat down and ate a quick bite and headed back out to gut the deer. Coyotes had alreay opened a plate size hole in the body cavity in that time!
QuoteThis particular animal had a mid chest entry and exit just above the heart on exit side. The perfect shot placement for ideal blood trailing. I just found it a little strange for the blood to be so sparse. [/QB]
Maybe it was a quart low to begin with. :dunno:
Location, location, location...if you don't put it in the right spot, little else matters.
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll48/danking49/deereatingpopcorn.gif)
I enjoy serrated steel force sabertooths - but nothing is going to match those spitfires - nasty.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Lyon:
P.S.
My best friend just shot a deer a week ago up behind his house on an evening hunt just prior to dark. The deer traveled parallel to the house and ended up dropping about 75 yards from the house. He went back to change clothes and his wife had dinner all ready to go (she wasn't confident in him bagging a deer) so he sat down and ate a quick bite and headed back out to gut the deer. Coyotes had alreay opened a plate size hole in the body cavity in that time!
sounds like you guys need to have a good old fashioned coyote derby... T
double post
SHARPest AND BIGest that'll make 2 holes LOW IN THE LUNGS
Fastest blood
saying all hits are in the rib cage (which we all know are not) then...common sense says the bigger the hole the more blood loss.
common sense also says to get bigger holes you gotta shoot bigger heads (hence...multi-blade heads).
now' with that being said...I agree that a low hit/exit will produce the most blood whichever head you use.
also, a heavy thick hide on a really fat deer is gonna close that slit made by a 2-blade. on a thin skin, slim deer any SHARP head should (and does) do the job.
jus my 2cents :archer:
I have shot a lot of deer with spitfires and fixed heads. I can tell you there isnt a fixed head on the planet that can consistently give blood trails like a spitfire. Thats why I'm gonna try and shoot the 1 3/8" cut grim reaper from my Dakota in 2012. I have to do some testing but I think with a heavy enough arrow it will work fine. I hate to go back to a fixed head but if I do I will prolly use razortricks.
Big Jim broadhead is also efective: 1,5" wide for 300 gr
here beside a regular 1 1/8" VPA
(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx225/hybridbowhunter/photo-5-4.jpg)
can go in tough game with A LOT of blood: this is the "nice hero pix side"
(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx225/hybridbowhunter/Magersfontain301-1.jpg)
and this is the "bloody side"...
(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx225/hybridbowhunter/DSC03156.jpg)
I seem to get the best bloodtrails from my VPA's. I can get them razor sharp.
Gee whiz, Swamp Yankee! That motion-pic is the funniest thing...I'm grin'n so big my ears are hurting!
I've used a lot of broadheads over the years.
I will be hard pressed to put anything other than a single bevel Helix on my arrows since I first used them last season. I have brand new Silver Flames, G5 Montec carbons, G5 Strikers, and several others that will probably never leave their drawer in my shop. (I do think the Silver Flame is too cool so I might screw that one on some day.)
That said, like many have written above -- Sharp head, well placed shot at unalerted critter, with a low exit wound is the recipe for white-tails down in sight -- usually 70 yards or less.
I'm under the unchallenged (by me) impression that multiple blade heads and my 45-49# recurves @ my 26" draw length might not be a good match. This is why I stick to 2-blades.
Bowwild: My wife shoots 45# at 26". I make her arrows with 500 Beman MFX or FMJ cut to 27". On the front end I started her off with 200 grains of four blade Phantoms with which she shot thru a bear and a four point whitetail. Last year she took another four pointer but I wanted her to try the 3blade Razorcap, 200 grains. She shot another four pointer. Deer turned as she shot and it caught him in front of the left hind quarter and exited squarely in the middle of the ribs on the other side. He was down in 5 seconds.
Animals shot w/ a big Snuffer that have 2 holes thru the lungs,willbe be bone dry inside when you gut them.
QuoteOriginally posted by Buxndiverdux:
I'd just like some opinions on broad heads and blood trails. Thanks,
Here's mine. I have always been of the opinion that the bigger the hole you make in an animal, the better. Since I started bowhunting in 1988, I have killed exactly 4 animals with heads smaller than 1 1/2 inches. Three of those were with heads that were 1 3/8 inches, which is larger than what the majority of bowhunters tend to use.
Several factors, which seem to me to be common sense, influence my opinion. Number one is the fact that a bigger head will cause more damage. That's pretty obvious. The wider the cutting width, the more tissue that will be cut.
Number two, all things being equal(sharpness, placement, etc.), a bigger hole will always give you a better bloodtrail than a smaller one. I've heard it said that arrow placement is the single greatest determining factor in the quality of a bloodtrail. I wholeheartedly agree, but I can promise you that, even on the best double lung hit, the bigger hole will leave a more profuse bloodtrail time and again. I've seen evidence of this many times while trailing deer shot by bowhunting buddies over the years. And on a less than ideal hit, the extra cutting width will sever more blood vessels and capillaries, providing greater blood loss than that of a smaller head.
And number three, holes made by big blades are much less likely to close up, or plug with matter such as fat or tissue. Not to mention the fact that a large hole is much less likely to form, and especially retain, a blood clot.
And finally, the big issue. Penetration. Two holes are better than one. I hear it over and over, and I totally agree. But concerning the whitetail deer, the only thing that stands as an obstacle to penetration on the broadside, or slight quartering shots that we take, is the humerus and the scapula. In my experience, a solid hit on these, especially near their junction, will usually stop an arrow cold, no matter the size of the head or poundage of the bow. The spine is also tough, but I have never lost an animal I hit in the spine (probably between 15-20), even with big broadheads. But these "tough" spots make up only a very small percentage of the area our arrows are likely to impact. On hits that don't encounter these areas, one should have no problems shooting big broadheads completely through deer with any reasonable draw weight/arrow weight combination that is properly tuned. With a much higher probability of a soft tissue hit, it makes sense to me to use the biggest head that I can reliably get out the other side of the animal.
With all this said, I don't think there is a better head on the market, for consistently producing massive bloodtrails, than the Simmons TreeShark.
Well said Chris :thumbsup: