I have vented and vented to friends, but I still have the need to vent some more.. A little background. I have hunted with a compound bow for 14 years.. This year I converted fully to a recurve. I have killed several nice bucks over the years. However, I lost the "buck fever".. So, I converted and it was the best decision I have ever made..
Long story short... I shot a nice buck in early October and couldn't find him probably grossed 120 as a main frame ten. I made a great shot, so I thought but had no luck retrieving him.. I was depressed and did not take my bow back out for two weeks. I continued to look for the main frame ten I named g4 but failed..
My brother in law is a compound hunter and ethical or so I thought.. I finally got over my lack of retrieval and got back in the stand.. I took my brother in law out that weekend only to have 140in buck within 40 yds coming right at me.. I heard in the distance "cough cough" My brother in law was hacking up a lung due to his addictive smoking habit. Well you know the rest of the story..
Following weekend: I took my brother in law back into the same area.. Wind was perfect and I put him in the tree that I was in the previous weekend.. I must have been smoking something that morning, because to this day I don't know why I did that.
Day break the buck approached him following a doe.. Ten yards he shoots it in the leg with a compound. As the buck approaches me I can tell it was not hit very well (limping and still on the doe) 20 yards, I make a vital shot and was pumping for joy..Long story short to save a family fight I let him tag the 136in nine point.. I got pictures and know in my heart its mine but I am still bitter because it was my best buck to date, AND MY FIRST TRAD KILL!!
Here he is!!
all images wider than 640 will be deleted
Congrats I guess, You have to resize the photo its to big. And win or loose you made the kill shot so it should be yours family fued or not.Oh and dont take him hunting anymore...LOL
QuoteOriginally posted by docmerrow:
.. I got pictures and know in my heart its mine but I am still bitter because it was my best buck to date, AND MY FIRST TRAD KILL!!
Sorry it didn't work out quite right for ya, but I'm glad you finished off the buck to save it from any misery due to infection. If it means anything I think you got your first trad kill. Your brother-in-law drew first blood, but if I were in his position, I would have given it to you for the mortal hit.
QuoteOriginally posted by lpcjon2:
Congrats I guess, You have to resize the photo its to big. And win or loose you made the kill shot so it should be yours family fued or not.Oh and dont take him hunting anymore...LOL
X2
QuoteOriginally posted by docmerrow:
I got pictures and know in my heart its mine but I am still bitter because it was my best buck to date, AND MY FIRST TRAD KILL!!
What's the big deal Then??? You know the truth and that is all You need. Trad Bowhunting isn't about this or that, But a way we enjoy Stick and string. I agree.. You shot a Great Buck and did great On Your First trad Kill... Enuff said....
Sorry about that. I don't understand how somebody could think they deserve the animal with a leg hit. I would think every time he see's that buck he will know in his heart its really yours. Maybe one day he'll give it back.
Depends on how bad he was hit, from your story it dont sound like too bad or he wouldn't still be trailing the doe. I believe I would have tagged it myself, if you hadn't shot it he probably would have never seen it again. It would be different if he was gut shot or mortally wounded and you just finished him off.
QuoteOriginally posted by Peachey:
Depends on how bad he was hit, from your story it dont sound like too bad or he wouldn't still be trailing the doe. I believe I would have tagged it myself, if you hadn't shot it he probably would have never seen it again. It would be different if he was gut shot or mortally wounded and you just finished him off.
Totally agree. If I was you, he could find his own land, do his own scouting, and hang his own stands from now on.
Nice buck. What's the complaint?
I would have kept it, whats right is right.
At least you saved money on a shoulder mount ;)
Nice buck. Sounds like you were the bigger person
In Pa it's the person that has the lethal shot. What if both of you had the lethal shot? But it sounds like you had it, so it's your deer. If he gets mad tell him to look some where else to hunt.
Now you know what your dealing with.I would hope he took some notes on where and how to set up stands cause hes going to need it.
Well let's look at the problem a little closer. You got to take a nice buck with your bow and you still have a tag. HMMMMMMMM.
Hope you let him gut and drag the deer, since it was "his", after all.
Great shot, we here know what happened so congrats. What you do from here is whatever feels like the right thing to ya. Its easy to say kick the bum aside, but the whole family thing is a tough one.
YOU did good. He's got a LOT to learn.
You are the better man. I think you have a big chunk of KARMA in the bank for the future. I would feel happy just to see the bucks you did this year. May the hunting gods smile on you.
That's your buck. I have no clue why he would tag it. and I dont think that would be legal hear in VT. Congrats! John
What's more important, peace in the family or a head on the wall? You and the Maker know the full story and someday it'll pay you back in spades. Let this one go, accept the lesson learned and move on. You know what type of person he is now and too bad you had to learn it this way. Ethics are what each of us believe and you've found many who agree that yours are running at a higher level.
Its yours but prob not worth fighting over - I'd personally hunt with him less in a non obvious way. Great deer and congrats.
Pretty much what Ipjon said right off the bat. Sorry you had to hunt with guys like that. Wow! Enough bad blood there to last awhile!
What's done is done, now all you have to do is find someone else to hunt with or hunt by yourself....end of problem! Good luck in your quest!
If the hit was really a light non-fatal shot and I shot it, It would have my tag. I could care less how much fuss it caused in the family. What is right is right, and I would stand my ground. If it wasn't the deer it would be something else you would have to have it out with him about down the line if he is that type and in the family.
As hard as it was, you made your choice. Now forget it. I would also forget hunting with him.
Had a friend knowingly cut off a buck on its way to me and wound it in the leg. It ran to me, and I shot it. While I was gone up to the house to get some stuff to tag and dress the buck, my friend tagged it, loaded it up and drove off with it. That was the end of that friendship. I never forgot it and have been very selective about who I hunt with every since. That was 32 years ago and it still irks me just a little when I think of it because it was my first buck ever.
Put another friend in one of my stands I saved all year because I knew something was coming in there. I had scouted it and watched from another stand as small bucks got run out of the thicket. I was walking to hunt it for the first time, and I stopped and told him he could take the stand for his last night of the last day of his hunt with me that year. He shot the biggest buck of his life and mine in that stand. Largest buck to ever come off that property to this day. I have kicked myself for years for not hitting the stand that day, but was happy for him and do not really regret it all that much. I just think about it occasionally and tell myself next time I have a hot stand I save all season and have all scouted, I will be in it. ;)
ethics?
would he have recovered it if you had not shot?
sounds like a simple yes or no(right or wrong) question to me. family or not
That sucks. The head may be on his wall, and the meat in his freezer, but you and he both know who killed him.
You were the bigger man to not fight over a dead animal. As has been said, you just scored big Karma/Mojo for the future, and scratch him from your huntin' buddy dance card. :readit:
Congrats on a fine Buck!
He would never hunt on my property or out of my camp ever again! People who let greed interfere with their ethics and violate state game regs are not allowed anywhere near my hunting area or camp.
I had a guy tag a rifle shot deer I took a while to track many years ago. I called it in and testified. He paid a nasty fine and lost his hunting rights for 5 years. I have a very dim view of thieves of any stripe. Family thieves are the worst kind. Frankly with the exception of family reunions or holidays I wouldn't associate or talk with the guy at all.
Big racks have made many a man's ethics go out the window! As stated above, you know the truth, and that is all that matters. You are a way bigger man than he just by doing what you did and avoiding the fight.
Bisch
I have some good friends I don't hunt with any more.
The brother-in-law would never hunt with me again.
But, I'm not a guy who suffers in silence. I'd take him aside and explain how he did wrong. You owe him that. He should be able to understand a simple concept: a non-fatal hit does not entitle a hunter to a deer fatally shot by another. Period.
Not saying that's how you should do it. But that's how I would. Family peace is important. But, How I feel is important, too; I'm not a door mat.
Mark
one day he will grow up and lose his training wheeles
Losing relationship over a deer is not worth it. Hunting brings out the worse in people. . . good decision.
Dan in KS
Tip of the hat for opening yourself up in a post like this. I see you've made two decisions... took him hunting and placed him...allowed him to tag the deer...seems like one more descision to make. Sever hunting and possibly your relationship with him, or live, learn and let it go, the last is a choice which may be the hardest to make.
I think that I would let him know why, "I'll never hunt with you again", but may let it go to keep family relations. My respect for him would be greatly diminished..Not an honorable man..
If he continues to hunt he will gain some experience and realize that you did him a favor by letting him claim it. That would make for a great story at Thanksgiving in 10 years except for the part about how ticked off you were and how you vented to a bunch of folks about it.
You made your decision - let it go. Hunting should enhance your life. Make peace with your choice and go hunting.
"I have some good friends I don't hunt with any more"......X2
Whats done is done. You know who killed the buck. He knows too. It's amazing the lengths some go to for bragging rights even if they aren't legit. Like spotlighting a deer then having it mounted to brag over. Would be hard to hunt with him again.
We often learn a lot about our friends and relatives in hunting situations. Hunting often puts folks in very real situations that reveal a person's true feelings and actions. They (we) can't sit on the couch or behind a card table and hide behind a sly smile when hunting together.
Some of what we learn while hunting together is fantastic and increases our affection and respect for these folks. Some doesn't.
Same thing happened to me in 1990 while in college. Me and my room mate thought we had exclusive rights to a honey hole that had 165acrs and joined a park right across the road.
Back then we would get up in our tree stand a good hour to 45 minutes before daylight.
Anyway 15 minutes after shooting light i see a flash light comming through the woods and i got a little upset when i heard someone cough 40yds from me.
About 1 hour later i heard a bow go off and the sound of a deer running toward me. The 6 pointer stopped 15yds from me and i could tell something was wrong because he was all hunched up.
Amyway i double lunged the deer and he ran 30yds and piled up. I flew out of my climber because this was my first buck with a bow.
While i was admiring my trophy a fellow walks up behind me and it scared the crap out of me. He says thanks for finishing off my deer, the deer had been gut shot.
I don't know what that deer would have done but looking back he probably would have laid down right where i shot him. I helped the man load the deer and he said since he had shot a deer and had messed up my hunting he would hunt another piece of property he had access to.
We killed some great deer in that patch of woods including a 10 pointer i shot the next morning from the same stand. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Joe Van
Great points guys.. I guess the big deal is we were really close friends. I don't need to go into details about why I didn't tag the buck.. I guess I thought he would be ethical and tell me know bro its your buck.. I am more bitter about how the story is now coming out in our town.. I am not even mentioned in the story he is telling.. If I thought the buck had any chance of dieing. I would have not taken the follow up shot. Even though I put him on this giant.. Ill try making the pics smaller..
A number of posters (see above) have taken a position along the lines of: A deer isn't worth ruining a relationship.
That's crap! Not all relationships are worth preserving. In fact, many aren't.
Mutual respect and integrity are the basis for ANY relationship worth nurturing and preserving.
In the case cited originally, the brother-in-law has shown that he doesn't value the relationship. He'd rather claim a deer that's not his rather than preserve a relationship.
That's why he needs to be exposed. If that causes family problems, the family should see the rat for what he is. If they side with the rat, that's says it all, doesn't it?
Mark
agree.. WIFE not so much!! I will save myself from pissing off my wife. She knows I am right and he did wrong. However, she doesn't want me to cause issues. Which is bull****, but I am a smart man!! hahaha
So is he hunting with you anymore?
Believe me I have seen first hand what "Big Antlers" do to people. It will revel the real person every time. My circle of hunting friends have all passed the Big Bone test and are the only ones I hunt with here at home.
I understand the thoughts going through your head. I had them the first time it happened to me. What I want to warn you about is shutting folks out totally. I did for years and it finally ruined my hunting experience. Hunting alone wasn't fun for me and I finally realized I just needed to find like minded folks to share with.
I think he is totally in the wrong and if that scenario would have happened with my group they would have definitely not even thought about taking your deer. I agree with others whats done is done. Take that and move on and I sure wouldn't let him hunt with you any longer.
Hunting brings out the best and worst in people. You made the decision that you felt was right for you to make at the time so don't look back. Your Brother In law knows what really happened and he will have to look at himself in the mirror on his actions then and now. Not your problem anymore. I have seen a similar thing happen in a friends family and it caused some bad feelings. Not worth it. On the flip side I was ground hunting with a buddy and a nice bull elk was closing the distance on us and almost simultaneously we both offered each other the first shot. The bull busted us and we have laughed about it for years. A great buddy and true friend. Nice bull too, but a better memory than the elk. Heck I am grinning just thinking about it now. Let it go now and give it some time, don't second guess your decision just move ahead. You are the better man and you will be rewarded down the road. Best to you! Bob
Your call, you blew it. Simple as that. Doesn't take much to understaqnd that the kill shot gets the gold. If you hadn't been there would he have gotten it?
i under stand your frustration. i have hunted with greedy hunters in the past and it takes the fun out of hunting. i learned the hard way.but if you dont want your guest shooting your bucks tell them to shoot does. or dont take them at all. after all.... its just a deer!
QuoteOriginally posted by KentuckyTJ:
[QB] So is he hunting with you anymore?/QB]
No, I am not going to hunt with him anymore. Thank you all for the replies.
you must like your brother in law much better than I like mine....if you made the lethal hit, the deer is yours , not his.....
QuoteOriginally posted by Bisch:
Big racks have made many a man's ethics go out the window! As stated above, you know the truth, and that is all that matters. You are a way bigger man than he just by doing what you did and avoiding the fight.
Bisch
Well said Bisch..I agree
How bout the pic again...looks like it was deleted :(
As far as bad shots, or an unrecovered animal, it happens to all of us, regardles of what type of bow.
I teach at Camp Wilderness here in MI, we run a combo Hunter Safety/IBEP program for youth. What we teach, is the IBEP thought htat whomever puts the killing shot on the animal is the one who should claim it. If he had put a killing shot, but you had the opportunity to finish it and put the animal down wuicker, it would e his deer.A non-lethal hit, followed by your lethal shot, and its your deer. Its known by IBEP as the unwritten rule.
That aside, we never encourage an arguement or the like over an animal. Keeping peasce in the family is important too, and it sounds to me like you've had the thrill of taking some nice animals, and allowing him this one was a generous gesture.
I would however talk to him about proper shot selection, wht he considers a proper shot angle and distance. If its not within what you prefer, then I would tell him those are the rules on your place and if he doesnt respect them, the opportunity to hunt there will be gone.
I have a nephew who is what I call a shooter rather than a hunter, and he will shoot at less than ideal angles/distances before he will pass a shot. My wife keeps bugging me to bring him up to our camp, but until his attitude changes inthat regard, it wont happen.
QuoteOriginally posted by KentuckyTJ:
So is he hunting with you anymore?
Believe me I have seen first hand what "Big Antlers" do to people. It will revel the real person every time. My circle of hunting friends have all passed the Big Bone test and are the only ones I hunt with here at home.
I understand the thoughts going through your head. I had them the first time it happened to me. What I want to warn you about is shutting folks out totally. I did for years and it finally ruined my hunting experience. Hunting alone wasn't fun for me and I finally realized I just needed to find like minded folks to share with.
I think he is totally in the wrong and if that scenario would have happened with my group they would have definitely not even thought about taking your deer. I agree with others whats done is done. Take that and move on and I sure wouldn't let him hunt with you any longer.
I have to fully agree with TJ here. what he said mimics what I had to say except I personally have not been in the situation. I have a brother and cousin who have.
I think you should email this thread to him after you fix the pictures. Edit your post about your wife and see if he thinks differently.
Personally I would chose not to hunt with him anymore. I love hunting with other people, but if my choices are of people who do not share common ethics or safety ideals, I HUNT ALONE.
The only problem I see you having is that when next season comes around I bet he is all over that area you hunt like stink on poop!Oh and without your permision of course.
I have permanently quit hunting with friends for unethical and rude behavior that didn't come remotely close to that of your brother in law. Life's too short and hunting time is too valuable to share it with folks like that.
Sounds to me like you don't owe him anything so don't invite him next year and if he quizzes you about it simply tell him the truth in as nice a manner as you are able. He may not like it but so what....