Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Scoobiedooo on December 31, 2011, 06:44:00 AM
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OK I have a question - and I am not asking this to raise any tail feathers or insult anyone! OK?
I am just curious - why some archers like and prefer a longbow to a recurve!
I have shot a couple of longbows and I felt that the hand shock was pretty high on them for my liking, and the arrow shelf a little 'small' - tho I had no issues with arrows falling off or anything.
Other then perhaps romantic lure of a bow of that design or era - are there any other real reasons why some guys like them? And also, isn't the length a problem in the field at all?
Just curious!
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I just like how quit my longbows are. I may be shooting them wrong but recurves seem loud to me. And for me the length is not an issue.
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Some men have a longer length than others. :biglaugh:
Sorry i just couldn't help myself.
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I started out with recurves in my teenage years and then gravitated to compounds for afew years and missed traditional shooting so made decision to come back. I had a few friends that shot Hill bows and one asked if I like to use one of his one day. Found the bow quiet, and accurate, and easy to shoot. I've been hooked since and that was 1982, you do have a few minor problems with the length but you learn to accommadate the bow and work as a team.
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I see....nice. Thanks for the feedback cbCrow!
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For me very Longbows are verylite in the hand, quiet needs very little string silencing if any, I personally like the smaller riser, Lots of variety as far as lengths go! as to handshock, that varies by the model and the bowyer! I have 2 straight limbed 66in BamaBows longbows and one Bama Reflex/Deflex 62in handshock is minimal on all 3 bows! Now I have shot some other brands that had a little more thump but its never bothered me!
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I shoot both and I don't really have too much of a preference. To me, they are both bows, and I shoot them the same way. Am I more accurate with a recurve, yes but not by too much. I will say that for the most part my longbows are quieter, lighter in weight and a pleasure to shoot. With the right longbow handshock has never been an issue for me.
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Thanks what I thought - that the hand shock factor was probably inherent to the design of the bow, etc. I know Asbell said in one of his books that because there is less string contact with the limbs during a shot a longbow is generally quieter than a recurve bow - which makes sense....
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I shoot my longbow better than I did my recurves, but I have to admit I had to practice a lot more with it before I got to that point. But I too love how light in the hand my longbow is. And it's very quiet. The length is not a problem for me (64") whether I'm in the treestand or my Double Bull blind. But yeah, there's a lot of romantic lure to shooting a traditionally designed longbow.
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Thanks BB - I thought that there would be/is a lot of 'romance' to shooting the longbow due to its rich history, etc.
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Originally posted by Scoobiedooo:
Thanks BB - I thought that there would be/is a lot of 'romance' to shooting the longbow due to its rich history, etc.
I have shot a whole host of both longbows and recurves on my journey and the straight limbed longbow is where I ended up.
I don't think I'm here but for one reason and that is "what the bow does for me".
I found that it's not so much how the bow feels as much as it is how the bow makes me feel.
With my longbow and back quiver full of arrows I am transported to romantic "Sherwood Forest" even standing in my driveway flinging arrows down range at stuffed animals...lol
God bless,Mudd
PS: Say goodbye to 2011 and welcome in 2012...Happy New Year!
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When I came back to Trad. I decided to try a long bow, I now have both and shoot them equally as well, or is that equally as bad ?, can't remember due to age. :dunno:
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Good points Mudd! Yeah, that Robin Hood era certainly has a romantic side to it as does Sherwood Forest, etc!
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Because I see and kill more deer when I use one. They seem to bring me good luck.
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Originally posted by JCJ:
Because I see and kill more deer when I use one. They seem to bring me good luck.
Reason enuff for sure!
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A few years ago I wanted to make my own bow and a longbow seemed simpler than a recurve, so that's what I tried. Looking at it now, it sure wasn't the prettiest thing, but it shot and I just kept building and shooting longbows. Now a recurve just seems foreign to me.
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Ah yes, the "lucky" weapon, we probably all have one.
I think of myself as a "shorter recurve guy". Bow shorter - not me so much! But I have a 66" Mowhawk LB that is a thing of beauty. I've been ready to quit it on several occasions, but am now determined to get the hang of it. With my back quiver loaded up and that bow, it seems to demand that I smarten up! And the light and quiet part, so true.
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Even tho a compound - that I no longer choose to hunt with - my old Bear Whitetail bow took my first 8 pointer with the bow back in 2001. I had it set up to shoot off the shelf, fingers, etc. and for a bow that originally cost about $75 in K-Mart - it performed flawlessly on that buck at less than 20 yrs for me - which was kind of a 'statement' for ME to all my friends toting their $600+ Matthews and BowTech bows! LOL!.
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I switched because they are quieter, lighter, and your hero pics look waaay better :bigsmyl:
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Originally posted by Ulysseys:
I switched because they are quieter, lighter, and your hero pics look waaay better :bigsmyl:
LOL!
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Originally posted by Scoobiedooo:
Originally posted by Ulysseys:
I switched because they are quieter, lighter, and your hero pics look waaay better :bigsmyl:
LOL! [/b]
Gotta admit, he's got a point. :laughing:
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Originally posted by Breakfast Boy:
Originally posted by Scoobiedooo:
Originally posted by Ulysseys:
I switched because they are quieter, lighter, and your hero pics look waaay better :bigsmyl:
LOL! [/b]
Gotta admit, he's got a point. :laughing: [/b]
That he does!
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Started at 11yo w/longbow. Ran the gamut settling back into longer heavier lb's 35 years ago. I'm 60.
Hi-tech - ZERO fun, Recurves - pistol/loc grips & fat flat curved short limbs get in my way & eat my long draw fingers, Longbows - narrower cross-section limbs & straight handles suit my hunt/shoot style. Add Hill Spiritual Mind Magic = perfection.
Note*: Love recurves too; but, not pistol/locator grips which limit me comparatively.
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If for no other reason I enjoy shooting and using a longbow better because I don't have to carry a bowstringer around with me to string my bow. :archer: :dunno:
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LOL! I am very "Old School' - and I know it's a bad thing but I refuse to use a bowstring as when I tried to use one once it nearly threw MY back out! Perhaps I was doing it wrong, but it seemed to be too much of a PITA to ME!
My bad - I know!
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I love both, recurves and longbows. Depending on the year, you might catch me with either weapon in my hand during Deer season. I tend to mess around with both during the spring and summer and then settle on my bow of choice for Deer hunting season as the end of summer comes. this year I've been hunting with a Grayling era Kodiak Magnum, exclusively on the ground. When our bow season ends tomorrow, I will hang up the recurve and go to the Longbow entirely and chase squirrels and bunnies around for the remainder of small game season.
All that being said, I love the apparent simplicity of design of the longbow, the light weight, the look, the feel, the virtually silent way it shoots, but most of all I think the longbow has a tendency to boil things down to their simplest form.
I think Mudd said it very well, "I found that it's not so much how the bow feels as much as it is how the bow makes me feel". Well put Mudd and very much the way i feel about the Longbow.
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I think longbows are generally a bit more forgiving, you'll notice with your high-performance Predator that you have to be very consistant with your draw length and release, the slightest "blip" on your part will throw that arrow way off, not real noticeable at 20 yards, but at longer ranges it really becomes apparent.I'm guessing that Byron Ferguson does his trick shooting with a longbow for this reason.
I had my Predator made with heavy dense wood and phenolic, dead in the hand. A lot of guys like the thump of a longbow.
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Yeah my 2011 Predator DX has the new phenolic impregnated finish I believe from what Mike at Hunter's Nitche told me when I ordered it.
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I have both but shoot the long bow better. I like Mr. Hill's answer when He was asked "Why don't You shoot a recurve" Hill - "I'm not that good of an archer to shoot a recurve"
My recurve is mostly for bowfishing now, but I do have it set-up for both land and water.
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Okay..at the risk of sounding romantically corny here?..this is my gut level, from the heart of honesty answer..
I've owned a Bob Lee TD Hunter recurve for years..but about 2 decades ago?..one of my best buds spent what i thought was a crazy amount of money (at the time) on a custom 21st Century Longbow..and when he got it?..i shot it..and wanted one ever since..i'm 53 now and just bought my first custom longbow a lil over 2 weeks ago..a Bushmen "American Native" hybrid longbow...and not only is it a fine work of art?..
(http://www.fz1gear.com/bushmen1ds.jpg)
(http://www.fz1gear.com/bushmen3ds.jpg)
(http://www.fz1gear.com/bushmen5ds.jpg)
it's ultra smooth on the draw with it's action-boo limbs gaining almost exactly 2#'s per inch of draw..from 23"s all the way out to 30...
(http://www.fz1gear.com/bushmen6ds.jpg)
That said?..I'm more "consistant" gap shooting with my recurve..but i'm far more deadly "instinctive shooting" with my longbow..and why?..because it is so smooth drawing and "predictable"..as it's ultra smooth draw of it's short riser with long whippy bamboo limbs speaks to me every inch of the way and makes things crystal clear to my minds eye to more easily visualize arrow flight "PRIOR" to release...my recurve speaks to my pride...my longbow speaks to my soul.
and that about sums it up...Bill. :cool:
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I have always just felt better with my LB a recurve just feels funny to me..My LB I shoot better so it is what I shoot..
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The first bow i ever owned was Dwyer Original longbow, 66in 53@28 and i didn't know what i was doing.
You see i have a 30in draw and my gosh it was hard to pull that thing back, that was nearly 4 years ago.
I have owned a lot of takedown bows since then but i still remember how that longbow felt in my hands and even though it was to heavy in a matter of weeks i was nailing the bulls eye at 25 yards.
Ordering a Wesley Special in a couple of weeks.
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Nice Bill! Beautiful bow....Howard Hill must have known something as does Byron Ferguson as well!
And WHO can argue with THEIR history and talents?
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Speaking of Byron Ferguson, he was asked about using the longbow verses the recurve during his shooting expo in Baltimore several years ago when I was there,what he said is take your recurve and draw it then torque the bow and see what the limb/string does,then he went on to say a longbow was more forgiving because it wouldn't twist in the same manner and therefor is easier to shoot to his way of thinking,if I'm wrong on any of these points or any of you guys were there and remember more please chime in.
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They are very lite weight, quieter than anyone will get a recurve, they just "work better" for me.
I have shot a couple of longbows and I felt that the hand shock was pretty high on them for my liking, and the arrow shelf a little 'small' - tho I had no issues with arrows falling off or anything[quote/]
I thought that too, the first time I shot a longbow.Then I learned to shoot longbow and all is well.
Face it, a Hill style or Mild D/R LB is a different animal from a recurve and requires a little different technique.
Eric
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I'm not firmly in either camp. I enjoy shooting both. And both have lots of history behind them.
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The main reason I like longbows (d-bows, not hybrids) is that they are a very quiet-shooting bow. That's a good thing when hunting white-tailed deer. But... there are times when I do not like hunting with a LONG bow because of limb clearance issues. I only hunt with my longbow at very specific ambush setups where I know that limb clearance will not be an issue.
When I'm hunting from tree stands, my short bows (52"/54") never result in limb clearance issues. On the other hand, there are some setups where my longbow (66") results in some sort of limb clearance issue.
For pure shooting enjoyment in my back yard and on the shooting range, my 66" longbow is my choice. But for deer hunting, my short bows get the nod most of the time.
- Dave
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Nostalgia....
There light.
The History behind them.
Hill and Byron used them.
Thet make you look cool....LOL
When I first thought of starting in Archery, someone told me to get a compound bow and to stay away from Longbows because they are hard to shoot....
I bought a longbow....And in my area I was know to win in my class a few times....
A good longbow is a joy to shoot, a bad one not so much....
Go to Craig at Howard hill Archery and have him build you a piece of history....
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I think Longbows are smoother than a Recurves but Longbows also take a little more time to figure out.
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Longbow are more forgiving for hunting . Like bending to shoot under low limbs or shooting running game it become part of your hand . I use the swing draw and I find that the longbow is great for my way of shooting .
My 2 cent . Ray
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I just like shorter, more maneuverable bows for hunting, whether they be longbows or recurves.
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I shoot the hybrids, and there is never a handshock issue. They are light, quick, and quiet like everyone else has said. It always amazes me at how deadly and efficient something so little can be. And when your chasing mulies for miles in the grasslands of eastern Wyoming, they are a joy to carry vs. a heavier recurve:) A lot of fun to shoot deer with in Iowa as well. I love the look of more wood (we all like more wood)in recurves, but for shootability I will always go to longbows. Although thos Lil' Favorites from LaClair sure catch my eye too!!
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I know this sounds trivial, but I love the way I can string and unstring my longbows without a bow stringer. I would never attempt that with my recurve. Other than that I just love the way my longbows feel in my hand. I own 3 longbows and only one recurve.
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Hmmm you might be on to something...more luck. The last time I used a longbow I took 3 deer that season. The last few have been with a recurve and I've just taken 1 a year...hmmm. Maybe I NEED another longbow again. :)
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Folks today don't like to define things too closely (bows, arrows, aiming approaches, etc.). I guess they're afraid it might make what/how they choose to shoot somehow less worthy of acceptance and admiration (egos are omnipotent). So what some use and call a 'longbow' may be very different than how others might see it. Your question is therefore a matter of which side of the definition line you're standing on.
What I would call a real longbow is essentially the Hill design...small simple low-mass riser, longer heavier higher mass limbs, little to no R/D mechanical advantage save perhaps a bit of limb backset, and no pretense of recurvology in either the design or shooting approach (get ahold of the bow, no target recurve mentality, find your rhythm vs. find your slide rule, etc.). That's not a slam on modern (I shoot them, too) as much as it's a statement that there are real differences between modern and non-modern traditional bows, especially longbows.
The non-modern (Hill design) longbow aspects combine to produce a bow and approach that is admittedly more difficult to learn. And maybe not as 'comfy'. But it rewards your sense of shooting satisfaction like no other approach can. In addition to the nostalgic connection with past pioneers, old-style longbows help put (keep?) the challenge and keep out the too easy/too boring. They make you think less about adoring at the alter of rifle-like accuracy and think more about the simple enjoyment of a bending bow and arching arrow. These are good things.
There's too much overcomplication now. Seems we're losing recognition and the taste for why the idea of longbows and simpler recurves appealed to us to begin with. From plastic caca arrows to lumps of metal machined to look like wannabee compounds, things have approached out-of-hand status and we don't even much notice or care.
A simple longbow and arrow and mindset helps preserve old-school and relieves some of the sting from today's techno-trad fad. That's my take.
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I prefer shorter hybrid longbows that shoot like recurves :D
I shot recurves a lot growing up, to this day I still cant shoot a Hill style longbow worth a dang, I hit my arm with the string on every shot and I feel the shock in my elbow. It sucks, because they are beautiful to look at, the classy arch of the limb is just plain awesome.
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Part of the whole trad thing is about a feeling we get. We are part of something much bigger and don't even know it. I believe with all my being that we are genetically geared for the pursuit. We can't help it, it's inside us.
Some need a longbow to attain that feeling they seek, some a recurve. . some haven't gotten to the "feeling" yet.
Jerry (Orion) made a statement that rebounded recently, and will,in part, again now:"When how you do it matters more then how big or how many...". That statement has a lot of depth, much more than just a "stick vs compound" comment.
A longbow is not better (or worse) than a recurve, its just another tool towards attaining the goal.
ChuckC
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I shoot my 62" St. Joe River longbow better then any bow I own. Light in hand, smooth drawing with no hand schock. Plus it makes me look good and as you know I need the help.
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I have never felt as if my '64 Bear Magnum recurve was anything near to being awkward.
It is a featherweight of a bow, and compared to some longbows... it is lighter in mass weight.
- Dave
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Good point - which was why I sold my Martin Jaguar recurve in lieu of a all wood recurve! Just didn't wanna 'go' the metal riser road, etc.
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The "history" of one versus the other seems like a moot point. Both longbows and recurves have long, illustrious histories that span many centuries. I think it just comes down to which "history" you want to focus on, or which speaks to you most.
Me? I like it all equally.
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I buy all of it except the "because it's lighter" part. I have a locally made (Kevin Cramer) 60" 50# @ 28" recurve that is several ounces lighter than any of my longbows. Of course the LB's are several inches longer.... Truth is, I love them all. Would like to sell one of them to get the funds to buy one I just saw in the classifieds, but I really couldn't pick one to part with.
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Lightweight to carry long distances. Easy to string. Forgiving to shoot. Easy to match my long draw length with no stacking. Takes me back to a long ago time. I prefer a low wrist grip. I never have like recurve type grips, they feel huge and wrong to me.
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I just like 'em better.
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff187/GingivitisKahn/black_friday_2010_doe/20101126_ac_09.jpg)
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My hand just never 'feels right' on a longbow since i am used to it slipping into the throat of a recurve with a small throat. A longbow - to me - feels like just an 'oval' thing in my hand and not that comfortable per se. Maybe it's just me and that I have not shot one enuff or have gotten used to the feel of them, etc.
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Originally posted by Scoobiedooo:
My hand just never 'feels right' on a longbow since i am used to it slipping into the throat of a recurve with a small throat. A longbow - to me - feels like just an 'oval' thing in my hand and not that comfortable per se. Maybe it's just me and that I have not shot one enuff or have gotten used to the feel of them, etc.
There are many r/d hybrid type longbows out there that have a recurve style grip.
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Hmmm....will have to look into this ....
Thanks!
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I shoot an ilf riser and have both longbow and recurve limbs. Actually the recurve limbs are of superior quality and performance. Looking at it from my perspective, weight is a wash on my set up. However the longbow limbs are much quieter and therefore I find they are the only limbs I shoot. Plus something about longbow limbs just seems more old school, even though I'm shooting a ilf rig. lol
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Originally posted by BWD:
Originally posted by Scoobiedooo:
My hand just never 'feels right' on a longbow since i am used to it slipping into the throat of a recurve with a small throat. A longbow - to me - feels like just an 'oval' thing in my hand and not that comfortable per se. Maybe it's just me and that I have not shot one enuff or have gotten used to the feel of them, etc.
There are many r/d hybrid type longbows out there that have a recurve style grip. [/b]
BWD - Who is making these hybrid-type longbows?
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If I remember, you just got a sweet new Predator recurve...and you are ALREADY wondering about a longbow?...COOL!!!
Longbows are the same as recurves...except different. I shot recurves EXCLUSIVELY for twenty years...ALWAYS wondering about longbows.
The one who dies after having the most fun is indeed the winner...and to be a winner, you simply MUST experience the friendly thump of a longbow.
:campfire:
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Originally posted by Scoobiedooo:
Hmmm....will have to look into this ....
Thanks!
Check out a Kanati by JK Traditions. Jason is a sponsor here. I also like a slender grip, and that is exactly what I have on my Kanati. You could spend a lot more money, but you won't find a better bow.
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Bob Lee, Leon Stewart, to name a couple, I am sure there are more.
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Thanks and YES! I just got a gorgeous Predator recurve which I love! Not seeking to buy a longbow right now....but one never knows, right????
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Michael,i have been shooting recurves for 50yrs and have been trying too shoot longbows off and on as much.Never found one i could really shoot well until i found a Bob Lee 60" at 28" TD.Its a few feet slower but dead in hand and a lot quieter.Happy New Year.
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Ok thanks all for the info!!!!
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EagleWing makes them.Check out my site for pics. You can get a high , medium, low and anything in between.
I believe if you will check the sponser sites out you will find that there are quite a few that build recurve grips for D and R longbows.
If you click on the lead after my post it will take you directly to the site.
God bless you all and have a wonderful and happy New Year, Steve
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My Lord! What shooting!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq7E8ClBSGs
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I shoot both recurves and longbows quite happily. They are quite different aesthetically (look, feel in the hand, and feel during the draw). Which I prefer depends on my mood.
Handshock is not at all an issue with many modern RD longbows. No more than a recurve.
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I was a Recurve only guy for 20 years but now have a few of each. I tried many longbows over the years but was always disappointed with the lack of performance and added hand shock. Lots of people would tell me try this model it's very fast but compared to my recurve they just didn't stand up. I do now have a few hybrid longbows that are very close to recurve performance. What I like most about the longbow is they are durable, very light weight and quick to aim.
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My first bow I built was a selfbow that only lasted a very few months. I then got a recurve which seemed like a rocket launcher in comparison. The N.A.L.S. was coming near where I lived and I needed a longbow. When I picked it up for the first time and shot it the recurve went under the bed and been there for about 12 years now. Just feels right to me.
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Hmmm...I guess it all comes down to - what feels good in ones hand, how well they shoot it, and what their personal preference IS!
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Lots of different bows and different uses....
Fun and Fast Shooting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o9RGnujlkI)
- Dave
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I wanna know how she even knows she's nocking the arrow with the cock feather OUT?????
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Some things aren't written in stone...
such as, which way the hand is positioned on the string.... thumb up or thumb down. ;-)
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How true!
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I enjoy shooting a longbow because they are fun to shoot. I started with a recurve, but actually shot the longbow better. I will probably be a longbow shooter til the end :)
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Plain and simple I am just a better shot with a longbow. Byron Ferguson said it best "The longbow is more forgiving" and I agree. There is less finger pinch. They draw smoother, hold easier etc.. I would even go so far as to say the longer the better. I have 5 bows that I shoot regularly, from 54" to 70". Guess which one I shoot best? The 70. Not to mention you get great cast with a longbow, which equates to penetration and/or range. Long limbs = long cast. And honestly I think this whole hand shock thing is a hoot! You just have to hold it, not choke it! If you're feeling shock, you're just over gripping the bow. Be gentle with your bow hand and let the bow do what it does.
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Hmmm....interesting.....well after the bank account recovers from my recent Predator bow purchase I will have to think about that!
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I don't believe it is simply the way you hold the bow.
I've owned many straight-limbed bows that produced plenty of handshock, no matter how they were "gripped".
- Dave
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I like the look of a longbow more; like the smaller riser in my hand, and figured if I was coming back to traditional gear after compounding, I might as well go farther back than where I started.
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Dooo, I just like to carry a longbow more than a recurve. 99% of the time you are just having it in your hand. I also like the little additional challenge, which I have yet to master. Also many longbows do not have handshock.
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Thanks all! It seems like the current consensus - and rightly so - is that longbows are so much lighter in weight and easier to carry per se than recurve bows....
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i just like how longbows look. i love my hunter bow longbow.
I would like another recurve though and a recurve will be my next bow puchase. when I can afford to buy another
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Yeah I hear ya! I just bought a Predator bow 3 wks ago and that cost me a chunk of change was well.
Ahh - I see you heave some Bear bows! I always liked the Kodiak Mags and the Kodiak Hunters. Great bows. In retrospect I could have prob found a nice 70's bear Kodiak Hunter, green Futurewood with white laminations on the back (front) of the bow, and the classic blue stripe down the riser, prob in EC, for around $200+ and bought a longbow too for what the Predator cost me! The Bear Kodiak's are my most fav bow!
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I love my longbows but a chronic elbow problem has caused me to switch to recurves exclusively for over a year. I've been selling the longbows because, although a good longbow won't have much hand shock, the recurves have less. It seems the heavier the riser the more comfortable I am shooting the bow. Actually looking into some metal risers for recurves now..
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My longbow has made me a better shot. It shoots good with a properly tuned arrow. If you try to shoot an arrow that is not spined exactly right or your form is not up to par, errors will show up. A recurve cut past center makes it harder to discover your errors because it is more forgiving with alot of different spined arrows.
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There are all kinds of great reasons stated here for shooting longbows, and I enjoy shooting them myself. That said, when I'm in the mood to shoot my recurve, my favorite one weighs 1lb, 14oz. While my longbow is certainly lighter, a difference of 12 ounces or so in bow weight is far from my list of concerns.
After all, if I'm not carrying a bow in the field, I'm probably carrying a 6lb. shotgun...
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I use have and use both. Reasons for the longbow...like looks better, and it's quiet.
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For me it's part of getting rid of "stuff" - both physical stuff and mental stuff. The longbow suits my minimalist tendencies. As part of this when shooting competitively I've gone from a hip quiver to a back quiver and now to a pocket quiver.
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Began shooting a longbow last spring and thought it would be tough going from curve to longbow. Much to my suprise I shot that savannah much better than the curves. The small grip feels very good and no real shock. Still looking for first longbow kill but am sure it will happen some day. Everyone is different and like different things. Shoot what you like and have a blast doing it!
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Yup....
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I shot my first deer with a longbow 37 years. it was a borrowed longbow and arrows, I did like some others went to the compound for a few years, came back and went to recurve, couldn't use to the noise. I move back to the longbow, and I shoot better with it. I think it doesn't matter what bow, it's all what you are comfortable with and most of all confident with. But having said that, there's just something about the longbow that just feels better.
Besides, " everybody " knows the first bow was a longbow ! RIGHT !!!
Carl
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No...my first bow has always been a recurve....never really liked the looks of a longbow or the American Indian style of bows...just me I guess ... A longbow just reminds me a stick from a tree and a string.....
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b/c all the cool kids are doing it.
Personally, I like the lighter riser, narrower grip, and quietness. All my LB's are highly R/D, and I don't feel any noticable handshock and the speed is on par with most recurves. The R/D design also allows for a shorter bow. My draw length is just under 28", and I like my R/D longbows 58-60".