I'm still reading his reports. When he says the arrow has been bare shafted from something like 4 to 40 meters..... Is that with a fieldtip? ....
190g grizzle + 125g screw in adapter = 315g
I'm aware of the Ashby 315g fieldtip but did he have that while he was testing?
Does he bare shaft with a BH? I know I can't do it but I haven't tried a single bevel BH. Does the single bevel create enough spin to stabilize his arrows?
Don't bareshaft with a broadhead, just use a fieldpoint. Then when done make sure your fletched shaft with broadhead hits with your bareshaft and flethed shaft with a field point.
Come to KaZoo and ask him! :D
QuoteOriginally posted by owlbait:
Come to KaZoo and ask him! :D
If it was taut easy I would! How about you ask him and let me know. :pray:
No, Ed and I both used 125gr steel point adpts. and 190gr glue-on field points. I'll be helping Ed at K'Zoo with the arrow tuning part of the siminar.
Troy
There ya go! Looking forward to the seminar Troy!
Thanks Troy.
I hope someone will post a video of said seminar when it's over.
Hint. Hint.
Can't say for sure, but you may get your wish.
Troy
in my humble opinion ... and i've seen lots of these kinda threads posted here over the last 8 years or so ... for too many folks the business of "hunting arrow selection, build and tuning" has an expectation of rocket science when in reality it's far and away just simple common sense.
Rob,
Dang I had to read that twice to understand what you were really saying.... :biglaugh:
Not really,,, just poking at you alittle.
However, you did nail that puppy right on the head. Too many folks try to make that puff of air into a windstorm. Even though you and I as well as several hundred more of us that have been behind the string most of our lives find all this pretty simple, new shooters seem to be totally blown away.
I find myself being ask question on this by new to mid time shooters quite a bit.
Thats why Ed ask if I would be willing to help at K'Zoo. Hopefully I'll be able to clear up afew of the questions on this with the arrow tuning part of the siminar.
Troy
Having started from zero, to where I feel confident in my arrows, I think for a lot of folks starting into trad from wheelies, or no bow experience, the idea of making an arrow fly perfect is daunting. They have heard and read a lot about how poorly fixed blade bhs fly. Once they start into the process I think they will find it easier than they thought. But you have to overcome the initial fears of wasting arrows or failing at what should be a basic skill of the self reliant trad. archer.
Very well said Maineac. I guess alot of this stems from the fact that at most wheelie shops they don't want you knowing how simple it really is to tune a bow. I seen this several times since moving to OH. I was lurking around a local shop several months ago when a fellow came in wanting a simple adjustment made. The so-called shop tech told the fellow to leave the bow with him and he would have it ready in a few days.
Knowing I had made this same adjustment on bows hundreds of times and that only took about 2 minutes to do left me chuckling to myself as I walked out.
Troy
I can't tell you how many deer I killed with a bow an arrow before I ever read a 'report'.
Bevels have nothing to do with making an arrow spin in flight....that's the job of the fletching.
Bare Shafting is done with field points.
Sounds to me like you are either making this harder than it is.....or you are getting confused at all the 'static'.
Don't get sucked into 'paralysis by analysis' !!!
yall are right. i should have been able to figure out the he was using a 190g glue-on field tip with a 125g screw-in adaptor. for the life of me i couldn't figure it out.(brain fart)
also, i know that you don't bare shaft with bh's... but i know that a single bevel bh induces rotation. then i read the article on the New Guinea tribe that hunts with bare shafts that have massively heavy heads... now my wheels were turning.
it's not rocket science but it is arrow science.
I can't tell you how many deer I killed with a bow an arrow before I ever read a 'report'.
Bevels have nothing to do with making an arrow spin in flight....that's the job of the fletching.
Bare Shafting is done with field points.
Sounds to me like you are either making this harder than it is.....or you are getting confused at all the 'static'.
Don't get sucked into 'paralysis by analysis' !!!
QuoteOriginally posted by Blaino:
yall are right. i should have been able to figure out the he was using a 190g glue-on field tip with a 125g screw-in adaptor. for the life of me i couldn't figure it out.(brain fart)
also, i know that you don't bare shaft with bh's... but i know that a single bevel bh induces rotation. then i read the article on the New Guinea tribe that hunts with bare shafts that have massively heavy heads... now my wheels were turning.
it's not rocket science but it is arrow science.
listen to terry, don't make mountains outta mole hills and it's neither rocket or arrow science.
the bevel angles or lack thereof on a broadhead have NOTHING to do with the shafts spin - that's the job of the feathers and you NEED GOOD FEATHER GUIDANCE and a fairly good amount of arrow SPIN. this is plain ol' common sense, period.
stop thinking too much, go put together some solid arrow builds and go shoot the dang things.
fair enough
I think too many people that read Eds study feel he is trying to say his work is the only way to go or that he has designed the ultament arrow that will kill on any shot placement.
This is totally the wrong way to look at his study.
What he is trying to show is that from time to time even the best archer can have one of those "oh crap" shots.
Yes, just about all his studies have been done using extreme heavy boned animals. Breaking the thresh hole on penetration in bone is what he has been working for. For someone to say you don't need all this for deer or other game in the US has never had one of the "oh crap" shots that hit the heavier boned areas like shoulder, hip, or even the spine and watched the animal run away with 95% of the arrow sticking out.
Even what he says on broadhead choice has years of testing to back it up when it comes to hitting bone. Everyone knows that if the shot is placed in the right spot even a head with mechincal blades will do the job. If not you wouldn't see them on the market.
In short, read the full study with an open mind and use what you can to help you advance. But, don't overlook what might be an aid just because your buddy says it want work. Take the time to do your own testing and take from the study what helps you.
Troy
QuoteOriginally posted by Blaino:
fair enough
Blaino, dont forget, in all this new learning curve you are going through, HAVE FUN SHOOTING. Dont let all the brain work get in front of that.
Blaino,
The part of Ashby's report that talks about single bevels causing "rotation" is AFTER it makes contact with hide/meat/bone. In flight however, its the fletching spinning the arrow. Understandable confusion.
Heck, shoot a single bevel into a foam target. When you pull the arrow you will notice it has to be counter rotated to follow that same track back out.
For the record, sounds like Rob and Terry are tired of reading the hundreds of posts on this subject. :) Understandably...
PM me if you have more questions.
I think we have once again, moved into the what's fastest, what's extreme, nitpicking nonsense that consumes the other modern equipment. Every time someone "experiments" with something folks try to turn it into a "Law." Ashby did some great work - its no "Law of Traditional archery". If you are shooting a 300+ grain head out of a 40-45 lbs bow, I hope you are doing it from a tree and shooting straight down. Maybe the "Law of Gravity" will help you then. At least the arrow will be pointed in the right direction.
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:
Don't get sucked into 'paralysis by analysis' !!!
Absolutely!
When I ask someone for the time, I'm not interested in them trying to look smart by launching into a 15-minute lecture on how astronomical events determine the length of our days. Just tell me it's a quarter to noon.
QuoteOriginally posted by Troy Breeding:
I think too many people that read Eds study feel he is trying to say his work is the only way to go or that he has designed the ultament arrow that will kill on any shot placement.
This is totally the wrong way to look at his study.
What he is trying to show is that from time to time even the best archer can have one of those "oh crap" shots.
Yes, just about all his studies have been done using extreme heavy boned animals. Breaking the thresh hole on penetration in bone is what he has been working for. For someone to say you don't need all this for deer or other game in the US has never had one of the "oh crap" shots that hit the heavier boned areas like shoulder, hip, or even the spine and watched the animal run away with 95% of the arrow sticking out.
Even what he says on broadhead choice has years of testing to back it up when it comes to hitting bone. Everyone knows that if the shot is placed in the right spot even a head with mechincal blades will do the job. If not you wouldn't see them on the market.
In short, read the full study with an open mind and use what you can to help you advance. But, don't overlook what might be an aid just because your buddy says it want work. Take the time to do your own testing and take from the study what helps you.
Troy
I agree 100 percent. I set up my arrows for maximum penetration except for one thing. I use a 3 blade bh.
The main messages I hear in the Ashby reports are, 1st get perfect arrow flight, then a razor sharp head, then optimize with multiple arrow factors. Optimize is third on his list. I use optimized EFOC arrow with 400 grains up front. So do my wife and daughter. They hunt elk with 40 lb bows using optimized EFOC arrows. I do not worry about penetration for either of them. I focus on getting them close enough to hit the sweet spot. That is what really matters!