Trad Gang

Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: gringol on December 28, 2011, 08:17:00 AM

Title: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: gringol on December 28, 2011, 08:17:00 AM
I use wood shafts exclusively.  I've used cedar, hickory, spruce, and ash.  I've settled on ash because it seems to be almost unbreakable.  I can bounce arrows shot out of my 70# longbow off rocks and trees and they rarely break.  All this bad shooting led me to wonder if carbon shafts can hold up to this kind of abuse.  I assume it can, but I've never used carbon.  What do you think?
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: maineac on December 28, 2011, 08:30:00 AM
I can't speak for all shafts. I use cx heritage.  Unless I put a collar from old aluminum arrows the insert can get pushed back, causing the end to mushroom.  I only do this on my stumping arrows.
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: cyred4d on December 28, 2011, 08:40:00 AM
Like any other shaft material it depends on what you hit and how you hit it. I've broken carbon shafts when stumping, but would have to say they take a lot more abuse than wood ever did.
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: stykbow67 on December 28, 2011, 09:13:00 AM
FWIW i'm still shooting the dozen MFX classic's I bought over 2 years ago except for the 2 I lost on errant shots at turkey's. I also foot them with aluminum and have not had one mushroom on me yet. You would be hard pressed to find anything tougher than carbon IMO.

Steve
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: Troy Breeding on December 28, 2011, 10:11:00 AM
I'm totally suprised to see that you find Ash tougher than Hickory. I tried just about every type wood shaft and found Hickory to hold up much better. My only draw back to Hickory was finding shafts that would allow me to have a finished arrow under 750grs. Most ended up in the 800+ range.

Troy
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: kat on December 28, 2011, 10:11:00 AM
Footed carbons hold up extremely well, but like any material they can fail.
That ricochet or glancing shot can sometimes be the end of any arrow, carbons included.
Don't forget to check them regularly.
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: gringol on December 28, 2011, 10:35:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Troy Breeding:
I'm totally suprised to see that you find Ash tougher than Hickory. I tried just about every type wood shaft and found Hickory to hold up much better. My only draw back to Hickory was finding shafts that would allow me to have a finished arrow under 750grs. Most ended up in the 800+ range.

Troy
I've found hickory to be pretty close to ash in toughness, but harder to find, and the hickory shafts usually require some straightening.  The weight never really bothered me (I actually never weigh my arrows), but I'm lazy when it comes to arrow building so I prefer not to have to straighten the shaft...
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: Smithhammer on December 28, 2011, 10:47:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by gringol:
I actually never weigh my arrows
(http://serve.mysmiley.net/confused/confused0052.gif)    

What?!?
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: JamesV on December 28, 2011, 10:51:00 AM
When I shot 3D exclusively with aluminum shafts  any miss almost resulted in a ruined arrow. My friend was shooting Easton ACC shafts and could bounce them off trees with no damage. Got myself some $15 per each, back then, and I was amazed how tough they were comming out of my "other bow" at 280 fps. Now I shoot 3D exclusively with my long bow and wood arrows. What a blast.
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: Jeff Strubberg on December 28, 2011, 11:22:00 AM
Ash is some tough stuff.  Only problem I ever ran into with ash is that it's pretty hygroscopic.  You really have to it sealed well if you want to keep your arrows straight.

I shoot carbon now because I am just tired of constantly worrying about arrows.  I think durability is pretty close to the same on the two materials, if you leave the moisture and straightening challenges out of the equation.
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: Pat B on December 28, 2011, 11:27:00 AM
I think that cane arrows are about the toughest arrow material out there. My second choice is sourwood shoot arrows. Years ago I hunted with ash shafts. I shot an 8 point, must have been in the shoulder, but I only found the back half of the ash arrow and it was broken across the grain and only had a small drop of blood on it. My theory is that it hit a tree and broke. Never found the front half with the Grizzly head or the deer although, because of an identifiable hoof print, I saw that he was checking his scrapes the next weekend.
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: donw on December 28, 2011, 12:07:00 PM
i've used ash and found them to be very tough, indeed...but very difficult to straighten. i also use carbons...they are tougher.

i gave up on aluminum years ago. i got tired of straightening shafts after a day of stumping, hunting or target shooting.

ovedr the years i've found that i really like to make wood arrows...but...i prefer the carbons...
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: Troy Breeding on December 28, 2011, 12:45:00 PM
I made a ton of hickory shafts and loved them until I shot my first weighted carbon. Now that I'm into high FOC arrows i find the hickory would never make the grade for this type shaft.

Troy
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: fmscan on December 28, 2011, 01:02:00 PM
Troy, Weighted carbon??? What brand arrow is it and why do you like it? Is it made in USA? Thanx for any info.
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: Troy Breeding on December 28, 2011, 01:17:00 PM
fmscan,

We call it weighted, but mainly the weight is in the point.

The arrows I'm currently shooting weigh in at 700grs. The point and insert make up 415grs of that 700. As I said, I'm currently into high FOC arrows. These shafts have an FOC of 33.46%.

I'm also playing around with afew shafts that weigh in at approx 950grs. Here again the point and insert make up 625grs of that 950. These arrows have an FOC of 39%.

All this is something you could never do with a woodie.

Troy
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on December 28, 2011, 01:44:00 PM
I love ash for arrows, I hate and will never buy carbon again. I got some bad carbon shafts a few years ago and well NEVER again will I spend money on them.

This coming spring Thunder Chicken season, I'm planning on using cane/boo shafts. Of what has been posted here and on some other boards. They are the best to have. Cane, Bamboo and wood all have a life force in Them. They where meant to be shot from a bow, Not made to be shot from a bow.

Now if I can just Cut them down and straighten them and heat temp them without breaking them so I can make self-made cane/boo arrows I'll like them even more ( I am working on making My own, But I need to work out what ever makes me break them first).
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: Art B on December 28, 2011, 02:37:00 PM
Hardwood shoot arrows such as sourwood and the cane/boo, with their radial construction, makes for one tough arrow. Not only that, they're faster than doweled shafted arrows and hit like the carbons. Being naturally tapered you get a certain amount of weight forward. Like Pat mentioned, probably the finest all around arrow material around, be it man made or natural...Art
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: TommyBoy on December 28, 2011, 02:56:00 PM
In a head-on against something hard - wood wins

In a glancing blow - carbon wins

This is just what I've observed throughout the years.
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: fmscan on December 28, 2011, 06:19:00 PM
Troy, Thanx for info, I will investigate...so many choices.
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: JAG on December 28, 2011, 07:03:00 PM
What would Troy know about arrows anyway?!!!!!!

I heard he's been seduced to the dark side.  And gave up the Gray for the Blue, Too!! :bigsmyl:  :thumbsup:  

JAG/Johnny    :laughing:
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: Kris on December 28, 2011, 07:27:00 PM
Try carbons, you'll likely be pleased.  I shoot both wood and carbon, but invariably grab carbon for stumping.  As Troy mentions (and Doc Ashby) you cannot get the same FoC or EFoC from woodies, as you can obtain from carbons.  Hickory and ash are as tough as nails for sure and have a different degree of forgiveness as does carbon.  

Carbons do break and mushroom sometimes at the insert/shaft interface upon straight–on pile driving stoppages and other, but can be remedied with collar reinforcements (aluminum arrow sections) and nearly become unbreakable.  Worth trying carbon if interested.

Kris
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: joe skipp on December 28, 2011, 08:38:00 PM
I've said many times, if my barrel tapered ash supplier didn't go out of business, I would still be shooting ash. I have a dz left but now, I shoot both aluminum and AD's.
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: Troy Breeding on December 28, 2011, 08:45:00 PM
Wouldn't you know it,,,, 100,000 comedians out of work and Johnny has opened a comedy act!!  :pray:   Still can't get used to sugar in the cornbread or the crunchy green beans.  :goldtooth:  

Troy
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: JAG on December 29, 2011, 01:50:00 AM
Sugar is used in cake!  They just don't get it!
Need to send ya'll a sack of Grits?
Can always get a care pakage headed that way!  
How all the family?
JAG/Johnny
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: Troy Breeding on December 29, 2011, 09:11:00 AM
Everything is going fine with the rest of the household. This past summer I spent most of the time batching. Debs job kept her on the road about as much time as it allowed her to be home.

I did however find a fine bunch of Trad shooters around here. While in MO I thought Trad was about dead.

Troy
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: GingivitisKahn on December 30, 2011, 09:29:00 AM
I haven't yet put aluminum footing or nock collars on my carbons (need to get off my butt and get that done) but without those mods, my son's ash shafts seem more durable than my carbons.

He's got a history of being pretty hard on arrows, but I can't remember the last time he's broken one of his ash shafts.  My last broken carbon (hit something harder than expected so the nock end cracked) - yep, I remember that.
Title: Re: toughness of ash shafts vs carbon
Post by: RM81 on December 30, 2011, 09:51:00 AM
I haven't had a carbon break since I started footing them with aluminum.  I've had shots into plywood, 2x4's, and a pretty solid oak tree once after a high miss on a 3d target.  The point buried deep in the oak, but came out unharmed.  All of my bows are between 53-60#.