If he were alive today. Would Saint Howard have used carbon arrows?
I open the floor for debate....
He used aluminium (aluminum in AmerEnglish) for his elephant hunt to get the weight up. Interestingly, Bill Negley, who hunted elephant after Hill did, used wooden arrows specially impregnated with resin to get the weight up, at least he did for his early elephant hunts. But I won't speculate on what he would use today.
I think he would because he liked the toughest arrow he could find.
Fighting words, 3arrows! Nah, just kidding! But I like Douglas fir because it is tougher than the carbons I've tried.
If the arrow would be a "more efficient" killer of big game, I think he would have.
Matt
In hunting the hard way , wood over all other shaft . I think he would have stay with wood because of if has life in it .
Tried them? YES
Use them? :dunno:
My crystal ball is broken but...if i hadta take a guess?
absolutely...at least i would like to think he would..after all...the man (and many others like him) dedicated their lives to the promotion of the sport they lived and loved...if it were a product that got more John Q's out there to waddle off their respective couch's..grab their new bow and make it easier for the average Joe to get involved and enjoy?..you betcha..and there would probably be a special top grade line with his name emblazened on the factory wraps!..for a slightly elevated cost. LOL!
It's just like figuring how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie roll lollipop?
THE WORLD WILL NEVER KNOW!!!
Back in his day traditional tackle is all there was, so there wan't the whole mystique about trying to stay traditional. It just was what it was, there wasn't a lot of people standing around fretting about whether a certain arrow was going to make their bow more or less traditional. Seems as though it has only been in the most recent history that people have felt it is sacrilege to shoot anything but wood out of Hill bows. I would like to think Howard would have used just about anything available to him if he was confident that it would improve his accuracy and consistency.
QuoteOriginally posted by Burnsie:
Back in his day traditional tackle is all there was, so there wan't the whole mystique about trying to stay traditional. It just was what it was, there wasn't a lot of people standing around fretting about whether a certain arrow was going to make their bow more or less traditional. Seems as though it has only been in the most recent history that people have felt it is sacrilege to shoot anything but wood out of Hill bows. I would like to think Howard would have used just about anything available to him if he was confident that it would improve his accuracy and consistency.
I agree whole heartedly with that post..remember...these great men were icons of their time..competing against each other which happened to be the best in the world..if there was a better buggy whip available that would give them an edge?..not even a question.
He certainly jumped on fiberglass backing for his bows as soon as it was available, which indicates that he wasn't stuck in the past. He makes it clear in his books that he shot the straight longbow because he thought it was the most dependable bow available. He tried recurves, but the ones he tried shot erratically for him, so he stuck with longbows. But I believe if he could have shot recurves better than he shot longbows, he would have been a recurve shooter.
Based on his history of trying new things and using those that he believed were an improvement, I have no doubt that he would have tried carbon arrows and would have used them if he believed they shot better than wood arrows.
Interesting question. Howard didn't mind trying something new, but he was pretty convinced that what he had worked.
I'm gonna guess no. Like the rest of us, I imagine Howard became less interested in change as he got older.
Having said that, I've never seen anything about Howard demonizing change the way some do.
QuoteOriginally posted by McDave:
He certainly jumped on fiberglass backing for his bows as soon as it was available, which indicates that he wasn't stuck in the past. He makes it clear in his books that he shot the straight longbow because he thought it was the most dependable bow available. He tried recurves, but the ones he tried shot erratically for him, so he stuck with longbows. But I believe if he could have shot recurves better than he shot longbows, he would have been a recurve shooter.
Based on his history of trying new things and using those that he believed were an improvement, I have no doubt that he would have tried carbon arrows and would have used them if he believed they shot better than wood arrows.
Agreed. I never got the sense that HH made his decisions based on nostalgia, but on what worked best for him. So, if he tried carbon and was pleased with the results, I bet he would have used them.
But yeah, ultimately, who knows.
Howard Hill WAS Howard Hill because of his incredible accuracy in the field and at exhibitions. Can anyone doubt that he would have used the most accurate arrows available?
The only remaining question: Are carbon arrows more accurate than what Mr. Hill had available at the time?
Mark
QuoteOriginally posted by mmilinovich:
The only remaining question: Are carbon arrows more accurate than what Mr. Hill had available at the time?
Mark
Howard used to like to grab a handfull of mis-matched arrows from various people in the audience and shoot them all into the bulls-eye. I don't think that feat would have been so impressive if he had grabbed a handful of carbon arrows.
Carbon arrows are not inherently more accurate than anything else. They're just straight out of the box, and don't bend like aluminum arrows do. If someone were to take the trouble to get a perfectly matched set of wood arrows, I'm sure they would shoot as accurately as any carbon or aluminum arrows. Whether Howard would have thought it was worth the trouble to do that, I don't know. Most of us don't; we either just shoot carbon arrows if we want straight, or shoot wood arrows if we want wood, without looking for a perfectly matched set.
I don't think so. He had over 40 yrs. to swith to aluminum, which most would agree are more aurate than wood. If he didn't switch then, what makes you think he would switch to carbon?
Gerald
accurate not"aurate". Sorry. Also switch not "swith". Can't type today.
Gerald
QuoteOriginally posted by arrowslinger22:
What a freaking waste of time, geez.
Funny, I've had people say the same thing about all the time I waste trying to learn to shoot a trad bow, when I could be shooting a compound much more accurately....
"...many archers say these shafts of metal are superior to those made of wood, and -to be very frank- I think perhaps they are right, but so far I have stayed with wooden shafts. Somehow, I feel that arrows of wood are more in keeping with the real spirit of old-time archery and require more of the archer himself than a more modern arrow; maybe that is a silly reason for shooting wooden arrows, but most of us archers are silly, one way or another. Call it sentiment if you like." -Howard Hill
Molson, you win! Thanks for posting that.
QuoteOriginally posted by Molson:
"...many archers say these shafts of metal are superior to those made of wood, and -to be very frank- I think perhaps they are right, but so far I have stayed with wooden shafts. Somehow, I feel that arrows of wood are more in keeping with the real spirit of old-time archery and require more of the archer himself than a more modern arrow; maybe that is a silly reason for shooting wooden arrows, but most of us archers are silly, one way or another. Call it sentiment if you like." -Howard Hill
Looks like that pretty much summed up Mr. Hill's thoughts. Great quote Molson, Eric
I know from what I've read I think Howard would of tried anything and everything at least once. I think if it didn't work or was just hype he would of caught it right away and never used it again or kept using it if it worked and I'm sure there was alot of junk ideas he tried back in the day that we have never heard of.
carbon arrows I think he would of been impressed with them but I'm usre he would of wanted more mass weight.
Read all the comments. Molson's got it!
QuoteOriginally posted by Molson:
"...many archers say these shafts of metal are superior to those made of wood, and -to be very frank- I think perhaps they are right, but so far I have stayed with wooden shafts. Somehow, I feel that arrows of wood are more in keeping with the real spirit of old-time archery and require more of the archer himself than a more modern arrow; maybe that is a silly reason for shooting wooden arrows, but most of us archers are silly, one way or another. Call it sentiment if you like." -Howard Hill
For the win! :thumbsup:
QuoteOriginally posted by Molson:
"...many archers say these shafts of metal are superior to those made of wood, and -to be very frank- I think perhaps they are right, but so far I have stayed with wooden shafts. Somehow, I feel that arrows of wood are more in keeping with the real spirit of old-time archery and require more of the archer himself than a more modern arrow; maybe that is a silly reason for shooting wooden arrows, but most of us archers are silly, one way or another. Call it sentiment if you like." -Howard Hill
I stand corrected, thanks Molson
Dont know if he would or not. He did prove that you dont need something other than wood to shoot accurately, just gotta tune your rig and practice.
Eric
:campfire:
Without a doubt he would use them. Easton would be his sponsor and pay for all of his Africa trips.
If carbons had come out in his time I think so because it would have been something new to try like aluminum was. I think we just attach the modern stigma to carbons because they seem to have come about due to the wheel bow crowd's need for speed.
Molson,
If you didn't post that, I was going to...good job, from the man himself. We must remember that Hill archery hunted and shot longbows because it was a harder way of hunting....a harder way of shooting. There was some nostalgia to the whole thing that he liked. So he stayed with wood, when he could have gone with more modern materials. Camo would possibly have made it easier for him to shoot more animals too, but yet he didn't go with the modern trends much....
I say "Nay Nay My Friend!!" :nono:
I saw him shoot in person, once, he was using aluminum. I believe it was a matter of what he thought was best at the time. He used aluminum on his elephant arrows, but Ben Pearson made around 1000 wood arrows to go to Afica. Hugh Rich hand checked them all.
He would tear up a lot of wood arrows in practice, so the Easton Aluminum worked best in demonstrations. I think he would use them for show, but not necessarily hunting (rattled too much in the quiver). Unless he was tearing them up, then he would stop using them.
He and Fred Bear for sure would of been shooting them, just like most of us. :cool:
I shoot both wood and carbon. There are things about both types of shafts that I like. Myself, I do not care for aluminum. I hate the "metal" sound of aluminum shafts. ( Although I LOVE all Metal music! Go figure. :biglaugh:
Perhaps, but if he had chosen to use carbon he would have been called "lazy" for not hand-crafting wood arrows.
Just curious - what would it indicate if he did?
HH was as competitive as anyone any of us know. Competing in todays circle he would have used what ever necesary to win.
QuoteOriginally posted by Smithhammer:
Just curious - what would it indicate if he did?
IMO, nothing.
Joshua
Read the entire thread.
I think Mr. Hill would have tried them, but would have gone back to woodies. As was post Mr. Hill felt something special in wood arrows.
Also I don't think he would have really liked them since, He had to STOP going to archery shoots because He always won and No one else wanted to shoot when He was there. So looking for a better shaft to make Him shoot better, wasn't in His future of archery.
QuoteOriginally posted by mysticguido:
He had to STOP going to archery shoots because he always won and no one else wanted to shoot when he was there.
I'm sure glad I don't shoot well enough to worry about whether Howard Hill would beat me in a tournament. I would be thrilled to just be able to shoot in the same tournament he was shooting in!
At a Whittingham (NJ) shoot a few years back I was able to shoot with Byron Ferguson. It was Great to shoot with Him, I would have loved to been able to shoot with any of the Other Great Archers as well.
Or his toughts on bamboo shafts. As he was a fan off bamboo an his bows. I wonder.
Mark
I suspect that he'd have trouble getting to the question because he'd be laughing so hard at being called "Saint Howard."
just as he would only use a specific type of longbow, there is NO way hill would have *predominantly* shot any shaft material other than wood. besides, he told me so. :D
Don't know about Howard but I tried carbon and didn't like them. Went back to wood(cedar and douglas fir) and aluminum. Have never looked back. To each his own. :campfire:
"...many archers say these shafts of metal are superior to those made of wood, and -to be very frank- I think perhaps they are right, but so far I have stayed with wooden shafts. Somehow, I feel that arrows of wood are more in keeping with the real spirit of old-time archery and require more of the archer himself than a more modern arrow; maybe that is a silly reason for shooting wooden arrows, but most of us archers are silly, one way or another. Call it sentiment if you like." -Howard Hill
This direct Hill quote (that Molson offered earlier...thanks) answers the original question of whether Howard Hill would use carbon arrows... without any guesswork. It may be hard for some to accept the answer or the 'sentiment' that Hill provided, but the correct and direct response is crystal clear. Those who seek to muddy the waters and cast vile aspersions to the plain truth will just have to live with their desperations!
:knothead: :clapper: :biglaugh:
QuoteOriginally posted by McDave:
QuoteOriginally posted by mysticguido:
He had to STOP going to archery shoots because he always won and no one else wanted to shoot when he was there.
I'm sure glad I don't shoot well enough to worry about whether Howard Hill would beat me in a tournament. I would be thrilled to just be able to shoot in the same tournament he was shooting in! [/b]
I ran the Florida state archery championship for three years and you would be amazed. The people that gripe the most about rules, class distinctions, binoculars, and other nuances haven't got a chance in hades of placing in the top third!
Yes