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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: maineac on December 13, 2011, 07:57:00 AM
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I have played around with this idea for awhile and wonder what you all think. My area of Maine has almost no agriculture, most of which are hay fields. The majority of land is thick woods. Except for logging there is almost no human disturbance in most of the woods until Oct. when bird season and bow season starts. Then November is rifle and the woods get pretty thoroughly walked over as most guys around here like to walk and rarely spend more than an hour or two on stand. I have always tried to do my scouting in spring and mid summer hen leave the woods alone. However I know as soon as I start to walk into the woods in Oct. I am leaving scent. Our deer are very nocturnal anyway, and I am sure that as scent free as I try to stay, I am leaving scent trails through the woods. As soon as the big bucks notice this I think they become even harder to see during shooting light.
My thought is if I scout on a regular basis all year that the deer become used to my scent. It is a common part of their existence. For most of the year no negative activity is associated with the scent. What are your thoughts. Will the constant human scent make them more nocturnal, or do you think they would become acclimated to my scent and tend to ignore it as a common scent and not a danger?
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Michael, If your deer have much more land than what you will be scouting I think you will just run them off to other places doing that.
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I don't think it will work. I own 20 acres and spend considerable time "futzing" throughout it all year long - mowing, harvesting lumber, skiing, snowshoeing, hunting large & small game, hiking, stump shooting, etc. I still spook deer immediately when they get downwind of me.
Just as they likely never get "accustomed" to coyote scent.
Though I have had deer walk over where I have passed recently without seeming to cause them any concern. It seems they recognize fresh vs. older scent. Best you can hope for is a lower level of alarm - perhaps they will just give you s wide berth and return later that day or the next rather than bolting for a mile and staying distant. When I go between the house and the barn I have had deer stand and watch - but as soon as I head their direction . . . tails.
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I agree with Tom, I doubt that it will work in the big woods. I have seen it work on small pieces of land that have a good food source, though. In those cases, it seems that cover scent can confuse the deer between what is an old versus a new scent. They still smell you, but don't head for the hills.
Got a buddy who hunts a little over twenty acres and hunt it almost every day for several months, in addition to being all over it during the rest of the year. He always wears camo when on the lease to acclimate the deer to when he walks in. He uses cover scent when hunting and the deer always seem to smell him in his stands(all 4 of them). Wind is usually wrong. The deer still feed at his food plots at close range, even if they initially are a little agitated. He has killed a scary number of big bucks on this little piece of property. The only problem is that he thinks the cover scent is magic and can't figure out why he doesn't have the same luck everywhere else.
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Don't think you will be able to acclimate them to getting use to, or comfortable with, a predator.
I know folks leave a lot of scent around bear baits, sweaty t-shirts, but bears are also predators. Don't think it will work with the situation you are talking about.
I'm sure in suburban areas where they are kinda land locked they would tolerate it a bit more, but not in the big woods. That's just my opinion.
Interesting thread BTW....we might learn something if we hang around... :campfire:
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I don't think deer ever get used to "human scent" even if people aren't hunting them.
Where I live in Texas, if I see or if a deer smells me before I see it in the spring or summer time, the deer snorts and he/she is gone in an instant.
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I've had wild deer eat out of my hand at camp-sites, so it can definitely work (might the the exception to the rule), but if you did that in order to hunt, it seems a little unethical. Like shooting a panda at the zoo.
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My biggest thought is not so much have them walk in down wind of me on stand, but not change their patterns due to my scent left as I move in and out of stand locations. I a sure every time we walk through the woods we leave a trail of scent tat the deer come across during the night or next day or so. Let me also add our deer don't use trails like in agricultural areas. They can wander anywhere and seem to do so and bed almost anywhere.
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I walk the woods and prairie all year long.. Some deer become accustomed to me.. During the summer and early fall there will be does and young bucks that I can walk within 15 or 20 yards, IF I don't pay any attention to them.. However, if I stop or even if I look at them more than a glance they will leave. Otherwise will stand and watch me walk by..
After a buck turns 2 1/2 or so the likely hood of this happening diminishes..
Of course, these observations pertain to my area and in other parts of the country may be pure hogwash!
Also after gun season has been open for a while all deer run the minute they see you.. I would too
if some wild nimrod in a jacked up 4x4 came to a screeching halt and jumped out firing at me !
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I hunt "big woods" also and have pretty much the same experience as the rest of the guys have stated. I believe your time will be best spent each year if you can #1 identify frequent travel corridors/funnels based upon last fall's sign which you find scouting in the spring. Determine the best wind direction and then mark your trail (firetacks) in and out so that you don't cross their path. #2 Early each fall find the first rubs of the year to hunt that buck while he's still on somewhat of a regular travel pattern. The best rubs I've found are the cluster rubs on smaller bushes and when you find 3-4 of them together that's gold. I wouldn't worry too much about them crossing your scent trails as twice now I've seen racked bucks follow trails that wolves had passed through only hours before. One even bedded down just off the trail, and the deer here have plenty of fear of wolves. Overhunting one particular stand is worse.
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One thing I have definitely noticed. I have been hunting a small residential area and can get away with much more than hunting "big" woods. I think it is an advantage when you actually have people in the vacinity cutting lawns etc. BILL
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A lot of time it depends on the deer. The worst are mature does. I hunt where deer really can't get far from humans, so they are "accustomed" to human scent. The younger ones don't seem to pay as much attention. In fact they are often curious and will try to find out where the smell is coming from.
One whiff and an old doe is out of there as a rule. The same is true for mature bucks, but their reaction is often different. A mature doe make sure everybody knows something is amiss. She'll snort and bound and wave her flag like crazy. Mature bucks often just wheel, drop their head and tail, and quietly sneak out of the area. They even get their bodies lower somehow. I think they would crawl if they could do it quietly.
That said, they seem to react differently to scent trails. Often I see no reaction. They will cross or even walk right down the same place I have been and never flinch, but if they get downwind of me...game over.
We do have some big bucks in Iowa due to genetics and nutrition, but in my area they have to be pretty darn smart to live that long once shotgun season opens. Any semblance of antlers makes them fair game to a lot of guys.
I have heard of guys hanging their dirty socks around in the woods for a month or so before season to "condition" deer to their scent. Never heard how well it worked though.
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I can hunt on the side of my house as long as I'm in my tree stand. My sent is blown through the woods from our bed room windows, which the deer are use to it. The deer will still walk by even when the wind is blowing into them. I told a friend to come over and hunt out of my stand that the deer are coming by every day. He gets up in the stand and doesn't see a deer. They are not use to his scent. I can't see this working in the big woods.
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Like I said, not trying to get them to walk in downwind, but just not change habits when they start to smell my walk and exit trails. The deer do not use any set trails (or very few around some minor pinch points) and are likely to cross my entrance and exit trails at night when they move around. If they become used to smelling my scent on trails fairly regularly, once a week or so, will they not go more nocturnal?
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We have a park close to my house and we do alot of hiking and walking on the trails. I have seen alot of deer there and they dont seem to be near as spooky as the deer in the woods I hunt in. I guess due to all the human traffic they dont see people as much of a threat. I've had deer stand 20 yards from me and just stare. I dont know, just a thought but seems to go along with what your saying. They are still spooky but not as spooky.
JMHO, Jason
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I think that if you lived on a farm that had deer on it they might get used to your scent and not pay much attention to you. We had about 300 acres behind our house that is now a development. Before the houses went in the deer that did come too our 6 acres got used to me. I could mow the grass, work in the garden, etc. and they would let me get really close (bow range) but once in the woods it was a completely different ball game. Their tolerance went with the wind. I think if you spent a lot of time in the woods you would be the one that got patterned and if they didn't run from you they would probably just hold tight, let you go by and you would be none the wiser as to their even being there. You might be tolerated by them to a degree but they will never let you inside their comfort zone.
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Not a expert by any means, seems I am always learning something about whitetails. With that said though, I have seen them come up and smell the ladder that I just climbed 5-10 minutes ago and not be alarmed, yet it they cross through my sent stream, when the wind swirls it is game over. In an area that has a lot of human traffic the doesn't seem to bother them the way our sent blowing on the wind does.
I also know that can deer pattern us, simular to the way we pattern them. Having multple stands can help avoid this problem.
Sometimes while out, I will push things further than I should, just to see what I can get away with, that there can make for great learning experiences.
Thanks,
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Originally posted by Bill Carlsen:
I think that if you lived on a farm that had deer on it they might get used to your scent and not pay much attention to you. We had about 300 acres behind our house that is now a development. Before the houses went in the deer that did come too our 6 acres got used to me. I could mow the grass, work in the garden, etc. and they would let me get really close (bow range) but once in the woods it was a completely different ball game. Their tolerance went with the wind. I think if you spent a lot of time in the woods you would be the one that got patterned and if they didn't run from you they would probably just hold tight, let you go by and you would be none the wiser as to their even being there. You might be tolerated by them to a degree but they will never let you inside their comfort zone.
ditto
i found the same thing growning up on the farm
if the deer were in an area frequented by us they didnt pay us much mind
but go to there turf and it was a different story all together
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I don't know about deep woods, but when food is involved I have seen does and young bucks within 5 feet of someone I know who feeds every night. When she starts the 4-wheeler they come out of the woodwork. She had twin 8-points 10-15 yards away following her. She had does eating from the end of the bale of hay as she walked to the feeding area. When they noticed me watching from 30 yards they shyed away. Not saying I condone feeding, just an observation.
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I don't know about your "Big Woods" part of the country. Here in Central Texas on private land where feeders are tended and ranchers/farmers are frequently, if not constantly in the field, some of the deer population does seem to let down there guard to a certain extent from my perspective. Some deer also seem to be able to read body language or tell if it is a hiker, rancher tending cattle, or a hunter on the prowl. I've only been bowhunting in earnest for a handful of years now and it seems that scent is still pretty important at times once deer season rolls around and the deer "realize" that things have changed. To me the reason that it seems so important is that our quarry has to be very close where I guess that our smell is stronger. I've seen lots of deer come to feeders or cross areas that I've walked across while rifle hunting just minutes or hours before, but I would be hiding 70 to 100 yds. away. While bowhunting, I've had deer "bust" me when I was concealed in a pop-up blind and the wind was in my favor. I think you can "trick" or aclimate some of the deer, but not all of them. Just like people, some deer are smarter and more wary than others. Bowhunting "Big Woods" sounds to me like a very Big Challenge!! :)
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Some great feedback. Opinions, as always, go both ways. Seems like everyone feels that direct body scent will cause deer to leave avoid area. That is my belief as well. I don't think a human can ever enter their domain and have them ignore a scent stream from that person. It seems less defined on the ground scent left by passing through an area.
I hunt both areas that have houses, and are a part of one of the urban expanded zones, and larger woods. Event the area I hunt in the "urban zone" has a solid half mile squared of woods between streets and houses. For most of the year this woods patch gets very little human traffic, based on observations. Your feedback has been great. Thanks. This summer I plan on trying to get to the "urban" woods at least once a week to walk around, scout, get to know the woods well and build ground blinds. I will also try to do the same around an apple orchard and woods near my house. It will be interesting to see if I see more or fewer deer.
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Originally posted by KHALVERSON:
Originally posted by Bill Carlsen:
I think that if you lived on a farm that had deer on it they might get used to your scent and not pay much attention to you. We had about 300 acres behind our house that is now a development. Before the houses went in the deer that did come too our 6 acres got used to me. I could mow the grass, work in the garden, etc. and they would let me get really close (bow range) but once in the woods it was a completely different ball game. Their tolerance went with the wind. I think if you spent a lot of time in the woods you would be the one that got patterned and if they didn't run from you they would probably just hold tight, let you go by and you would be none the wiser as to their even being there. You might be tolerated by them to a degree but they will never let you inside their comfort zone.
ditto
i found the same thing growning up on the farm
if the deer were in an area frequented by us they didnt pay us much mind
but go to there turf and it was a different story all together [/b]
We found the same in the neighborhoods we hunt. They will be very relaxed around the yards and houses and get pretty close to people......once you step foot into the woods in between the deer get very jumpy at the slightest scent. I have taken a few deer in areas where quite a few people hike. I found if you moved at a steady brisk pace,on a trail, most deer would let you walk right past as close as 20yds. I spotted the deer as I walked at a brisk pace, got within range, drew, then stopped as i took the shot.
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I would saty far away from letting any deer sense you are in an area. I have found the most important thing for me to do is approaching the stand from the rite direction rather than taking the easiest direct route. I hunted an 11 point for most of the bow season one year and played cat and mouse with him. I couldnt figure out why even with perfect wind i could not get the deer within range. This is on public land by the way with pretty good pressure so they are use to human odors.
There was one main way in this section of woods and one way out. So as I went to my stand sometimes 1 1/2 before light thinking I'll get in there way before him, I was still crossing the bucks routine path every morning. Pretty much warning him that I was there, causing him to vear way around in the 60 yard range and back to his bedding area which was not far behind me. So I decided one day I was going to walk the oppsite way through the woods when I got down out of the stand to see where it went. It was thick and about 1/2 mile to the next road, so I tacked it out for my new entrance into the stand before light. It was a total of about two miles out of my usual way from where I had to park and through the woods to the stand now. Sure enough the first morning I did this he presented a 15 yard shot, double lung, he acted like I was never there before now that I did not warn him. Its usually a bit more work at times but even on public pressured land where they are in constant contact with human odor being scent free pays off anywhere you hunt IMO.
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On my property which is landlocked and "remote" we do a bit of baiting. I know the deer are not bedded far away. I have a nice 6 pointer I want to get and he gets his picture taken every night about 5 PM....10 mins. after final shooting light. He's got me figured out. I don't jump him when I go in but he knows when I leave it is safe to come out....and he does. I think he hears the zipper on my DB blind when I open it to leave. It's like his dinner bell. If that is not what it is he hears me walking out the property line to the canoe. I know that there is some high ground about 75 yards off the property line that deer bed in when it's wet. I think that is where he comes from. When I walk by he gets up and heads for the blind and a bit of corn. I know he smells me but doesn't do anything but lay up and waits for me to leave. I would also like to add that I would much rather hunt beechnuts or acorns....my chances incrrease. Baiting means that if you don't get lucky early they get you figured out pretty fast.
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Try to never walk the same way in and out,make a lope and hope they don't find your stand.Even better would be a climber or ground seat and never hunt the same tree twice.Most older deer are taken the FIRST time stand is hunted.
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I don't think you have enough man hours available to you to condition rural deer to a urban deer response level.
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There is something with spending time with the criters you hunt. Most of the summer I spend scouting from a distance of 200yds in fields near my hunting spots.
The deer get used to me and my scent and presence seems to not pose a threat when August rolls around. I'm out in my areas at least once a week all year long.
I don't know how true it is, but in my experience it helps. :thumbsup: Each of us has a unique smell to the deer and I try to associate mine with being non threatening until it's time. ;)
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Personally I've had mixed results in this endeavor. I once years ago hunted a place that the couple who owned it walked daily around the property with their dog. Figured I had it made. Actually watched a doe watch them and smell them downwind with no effect till she walked into my scent stream. lol
Then also several years ago I had some buggy corn I couldn't feed my birds with so I started feeding the deer with it behind my house. Those deer got pretty tame in a short amount of time. Would follow me from the house to the loft at feed time. Come in down wind and eat while I watched. BUT when actually hunting some distance from home those exact same deer sure would smell me and go on alert.
Now both these instances was back before I learned a scent contol method that fools a deer to believing your way out of their alert zone IF they pay attention to me at all. Only reason I watch the wind now adays is to know where to best set up accordinly to the way deer will travel with it.
On a side note, I hunt Ohio a good bit. I'm a firm believer your way ahead to have someone drive up as close as possible and drop you off at your tree stand rather than walk in. Those deer are so accustom to tractors (running tilleage equip., planting, fertilizing, spraying, brush hogging, combining, and grain trucks that a motorized vehicle doesn't even put them on alert. Now a human walking solo along a grain field doesn't sit well with them and they can see you for along ways up there. Just my opinion.
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There are several houses that border my family's property where I hunt. One time I had planned on hunting an area behind one of the houses where the deer had been traveling down a narrow 40 yard wide strip of pasture between the property line and the woods line. I set up on the edge of the woods even though the wind was blowing from the woods toward the house. I knew the wind was wrong but thought as close as I was to that house that it would not bother them. Guess what, I was wrong. What is funny is that I have been able to smell dryer sheets from the vent when they have the dryer running and there are deer standing around there and they are not alarmed. It makes me wonder If I would be better off not using unscented detergent. :dunno:
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maineac. I have a little story that may be helpfull. I have hunted about 25 years and hunted hard(I have put in over 45 days this year bowhunting as an example) i got the nickname bigfoot from some close hunting friends about 7 years ago. Im 5'8" and 180lbs. I didnt get this nickname because of my size, i got it because of the reaction deer had to me in the woods(terror). They winded me about every time i hunted downwind or not, even in the rain. They would tuck and run when they smelled me. there would be 7 of us hunting and i would be the only one who got winded sometimes. same clothing and hygiene techniques for all of us, but i got winded. I know this sounds like an ad, but i found chlorophyll. the product i use comes mainly from alfalfa. I start taking it before season and cont till the end. All i can say is instead of putting your scent in the woods, it puts the the scent of the woods in you. It is a plant based product and works "unbelievable" well. They can be downwind of me(bigfoot)now and not alway smell me, and if they do its not usually instant terror like the old days. I have killed more than 10 deer off the ground since then, it seemed like i couldnt get them in rifle range before
hope you find that usefull
cordially jeremy
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A buddy of mine used the alfalfa pills one year on our elk hunt. It really messed up his "internal plumbing" if you catch my drift.
I know everyone is different so this may not be a common reaction to alfalfa pills.
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2x what NBK said.
The big woods deer don't use trails? Am I reading that right?
I don't have experience hunting whitetail in big woods. My experience is in ag land with wooded lots and watercoarses. I can't image not hunting trails, funnels, or pockets. Hats off to you.
I do have experience with elk in big woods. If deer are anything like them, you will not get them accustomed to you. You will only diplace them.
My suggestion would be to do your homework early and work on enhancing natural funnels with felled trees and cleared brush. I do that all the time and it works like a charm. Some funnels are just too broad for a trad bow. Hang, or build a stand early. "Lay the trap then leave it be". Sneak in during the rut and don't do the same thing twice in a row.
Another problem IMO is: regardless of what we all think or say, there's probably no way to really know without trail cameras.
How do quantify movement in relation to your own? There are just so many variables.
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My experience in hunting suburban deer is that in general they are way more tolerant of human scent then when they are big woods deer or when they are away from the houses. They even tolerated dogs to a degree. I have seen them stop and watch my neighbors get groceries from their cars and make several trips to their houses. The deer just held their place and continued about their feeding after the door to the house closed. The best thing about being busted in a suburban area is that there is so much human scent it doesn't necessarily mean that they won't be back. Run ins with humans in such situations is probably fairly common and while they may not tolerate someone getting "too close" it seems to me that they don't associate such situations as dangerous and usually don't travel too far.
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I work in the woods that I hunt. Often running a power saw and skidder for most of the day. A power saw is an attractant, they know some food is hitting the ground. In the winter they feed along side me when the saw is running, but heads pop up and they get pretty skittish when it's shut off.
I agree with the comments about the deer seemingly knowing what you're doing. We DO know how sharp they are. When we're hunting our body language SHOULD be giving us away. Bunch of sneaky snakes!
The deer's age is involved also, with the older ones being harder to fool. The rut being the best leveler of the field we have.
I don't believe their nose is ever fooled.
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Originally posted by Greg Clark:
A buddy of mine used the alfalfa pills one year on our elk hunt. It really messed up his "internal plumbing" if you catch my drift.
I know everyone is different so this may not be a common reaction to alfalfa pills.
yikes!!!!! never had that problem. High altitude is not the place for a stomach ache. Maybe start out slow and get used to them
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Do it.... Where I used to live and hunt I would go in to my hunting woods and do some clearing year round. In the spring, summer and just before Fall bow season started I would leave a sticky/sweaty shirt hang on a tree limb over night in My area..
I still shot deer in that area every year I hunted it. The ones that get spooked from the smells are mostly the one in high pressured areas and the ones that don't see humans all year, til hunting season..
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I will have to go against the grain on this one. My family has eighty acres of mixed open and timbered ground. My dad can just about walk up to deer and steps off the tractor to shoot them every deer season at short range. Me, they run like jackrabbits as soon as they catch my scent.
I think context matters as much as scent, though. The deer are accustomed to dad riding around on that tractor. If he steps off and walks towards them, they get very spooky because that's predator behavior.
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They'll be alerted to any "foreign" scent. Once they've indentified a smell as the human they saw or heard leaving it, it's locked into their brain. Now what that scent is associated with is a learned thing. Pops riding by on the tractor is associated as a non-threat, until he proves otherwise by approaching them or doing something out of the norm. The ones who survive, tend not to make that mistake again. I prefer to refer to older "smart" deer as experienced in their field. (pun intended) If you came home to find some stranger in your dining room, eating a juicy steak; even though you like the smell of steak, I don't think you'd be o.k. with that.