After bowhunting, I walk in front of my game camera to see how camoflaged I am. I just started using game cameras for bowhunting a couple of years ago and I started noticeing some of my camo glowing! I had bought some new pattern this year and I look like a space man on the moon.
I then went back to my old camo and it was dark under the lens of the trail camera. My arm guard and the black knit on my gloves turned white?
My question is are deer seening me glow in low lite?
When I had my new camo on before I switched back, deer were looking up in the tree at me. We don't have as many leaves as last year.
Most all this new camo is not made in the states and I am wondering if it is the ink or the material?
I have 3 pictures on my email but I don't know how to get them to Photobucket. I can email them to some one if they will post them for me.Any one else have this problem? Ken Denton
Maybe the camo has some UV brighteners in it. Did you wash it in detergent?
use sport wash
no uv brighteners
or wash in unsented dish soap and triple rinse
I read an article in the latest NRA hunter magazine that basically said deer are pretty much colorblind so the us brightners don't matter.
I've had deer not pick me off the ground in full solid orange in late season.
Movement or wind is usually what gets me busted.
Washed it in Dead Down Wind deturgent! Ken
I had the same thing happen to me with a nylon shirt that I was wearing. I have also been busted by deer when I didn't think I should have been. I am not sure what is causing it but I don't wear that shirt hunting anymore.
I have noticed the same and have had the same concerns. It seems related to the polyester fibers. I tried washing in different detergents but had the same results. Wool fibers seem to be ok. I to am looking for a more scientific explanation to this. I wear leafy wear, and other than the 'white bush' in the trail cam, the deer don't seem to mind really. but...... we're all trying to be more invisible to our prey.
The game cameras use IR flash. The complete opposite end of the color spectrum from the UV that the animals are sensitive to. I would imagine the same Camo does not glow under UV light. Got any disco techs nearby to check? :D
QuoteOriginally posted by Steve O:
The game cameras use IR flash. The complete opposite end of the color spectrum from the UV that the animals are sensitive to. I would imagine the same Camo does not glow under UV light. Got any disco techs nearby to check? :D
BINGO!
Overandunder is going to post some of my photos. Ken
Thanks guys, does this apply to pictures taken during day light as well? I think I blend in really well till I see me on the memory stick. Maybe it uses IR not just at night?
QuoteOriginally posted by JDinPA:
I read an article in the latest NRA hunter magazine that basically said deer are pretty much colorblind so the us brightners don't matter.
I've had deer not pick me off the ground in full solid orange in late season.
Movement or wind is usually what gets me busted.
Color blind and or color(s) have nothing to do with ultra violet light or the dye used in the manufactor or washing of a garment.
That in short is another added benefit of wool...
You need to get the dye out of the material...it may take more than one or two washings. A black light bulb will help you see just how much you glow.
While the "glow" may not spook deer nothing else in the woods glows...so you may just get and hold their attention. Not good either way. Hard to move during a stare down...
BTW...the UV brighteners are added to catch consumers...kind of like all the colored luers are on the shelf to catch fishermen...
I used the UV killer in the past, I know it works (black light). Haven't had to do it since zI went to wool...
Here are Ken's pics
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/7918/94019798.jpg) (http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3086/72366607.jpg) (http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/6571/17401408.jpg) (http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9981/getattachment1ho.jpg)
Ken's pictures are;
left top--Preditor camo
Middle top--3D Seclusion(Arm guard and black knit show up white)
Right top--Camo Vest from Cabalas
Left bottom--Old camo flannel shirt and flece pants
The flash is not infra-red...the triggering mechanism uses infrared technology to differentiate between a live animal and anything else at ambient temperature. Sensing the temperature difference is what triggers the camera.
QuoteOriginally posted by Trad-Man:
The flash is not infra-red...the triggering mechanism uses infrared technology to differentiate between a live animal and anything else at ambient temperature. Sensing the temperature difference is what triggers the camera.
No, many cameras use infrared led's for the flash. Look at any trail cam review site or read many of the product descriptions.
"Our collection of trail camera pictures will give you an excellent representation of the quality of picture to expect from each model. You can also view our customer photos for both educational and entertainment value!
Infrared vs. Incandescent
Does the camera use a standard incandescent flash or infrared flash? Incandescent will give you color night photos, but is also subject to spooking some game. Infrared is color daytime and black and white at night but does not spook the game (normally)."
Even the cheapest Bushnel I could find has an infrared flash...
http://www.trailcampro.com/bushnelltrophycam50mpxl.aspx
I have seen this many times with many camos and infrared flash that is so common on the trail cameras of today. I wouldn't worry about it. I'd be more worried about glowing under UV (black) light.
You can check your camo and other stuff with a cheap black light. You will be surprized what shows up. But all that stuff in the woods show up also. Would be realy cool to realy know how they do see.
http://www.atsko.com/articles/hunting/color-vision-in-deer.html
I stand marginally corrected... 8^)
My experience with UV technology and trail cameras is limited to stopping a clock and not taking a picture.
Very true, if the flash emits UV light then anything with UV brighteners/dye will glow.
No different than black light art durning the psychodelic 60's and 70's....anybody here remember those days? As mentioned a black light bulb from the hardware store in a dark room will tell the tale.
Try the atsko product "UV killer" it works. I sprayed in a dark room with the black light bulb and the result is obvious and instantanious.
If you are seeing the image then it was taken in visible light. The various IR and UV devices convert it to wavelengths humans can see. We don't really know how a deer's vision perceives such things into the UV spectrum . . . but it's a good bet that Cabela's vest stands out as lighter to them as well. Supposedly deer see some blues & violets as "colored", but I don't know that it necessarily alarms them as there aren't many blue toned predators in their lives.
On a side note - when I spot someone in camo it's usually as a big dark human shape. From B&W images I have taken in the past I now choose a lighter camo with large areas of contrast to break up my outline vs. ultra detailed "busy" patterns. The old Winona, for instance, seemed to be great stuff.
I think a big factor in what causes some clothing to stand out more than others, regardless of camo pattern is contrast. Many of the newer fabrics are very reflective of light, smooth and sometimes shiny fabric. Contrast that with fabrics such as wool and fleece, which are much softer, do not shine in any light, and are also much quieter. Many of the new dyes used to combat fading are so bright they simply don't blend as well, and thus reflect more light.
3D camo seems to help because the surface is not flat, this it breaks up the prolem with refectivity as well as helping to break upyou outline.
I wash all my hunting clothes with sprt wash or with just plain water and baking soda so as to not add any brighteners or artificial scent to them.
That's the same reason we couldn't use regular detergent on our DCU's in Iraq. The UV brighteners in regular detergent make you glow in IR. There a tons of pics on the internet that show the difference.
I think the main thing is to break up your human shape.
My question to this is are animals really sensitive to UV brightness or is this just an excuse that we use to cover our own movement sometimes. I have never had a deer bust me as long as I was sitting still and the wind was in my favor no matter what I was wearing. (including blaze orange that has uv brightners made into it).
Once again, UV and IR are at completely opposite ends of the light spectrum. So far from each other neither can be seen with the human eye. It is like comparing a 1000g arrow shot from a 30# selfbow to a 70 grain bullet shot out of a .257 Weatherby Mag! NO similarities whatsoever.
Everything I have seen says game animals are sensitive to UV light...that is why they use IR flash in the game cameras. I wouldn't worry about it.
I will say this when it comes to IR, and by no means it a scientific test. While in Iraq we used IR lasers on our M4's for use at night with NVG's. Cats would chase that IR light the same as if it was a laser pointer. I think animals see things that we don't.
Oh-oh. I need to change my wish list from Cabela's!!! But I already sent it to Santa!
Just kidding...I always was suspicious of all those supposedly "high tech" camo clothes made who knows where, with all kinds of Tradmarked and Patented materials with weird names.
I think I will stick to wool whenever possible...
The Cabelas vest was the only thing glowing! The 3D Seculision pants and LS T-shirt does not glow, so I went back to it! Ken
I don't worry about my camo glowing because I don't wear any. This is my first year camo free and I haven't been spotted anymore by deer in plain, drab clothes than I was wearing camo in the past.
Some great info here, I am really getting a lot from this.
I know I am going to get a black light and try it. Also when I buy some camo, I am going to photograph it at night with my game camera with the sale tags on and if it glows it will go back to who I bought it from. Ken
Just curious. I have one question were all the pics taken with same amount of daylight? It appears that the first three are washed out with flash and the last was taken in good light.
Look at the bottom of each photo and check the time? It is hard to read, but hope you can see it. Ken
A gentleman here in Waldoboro went as far as to have some lens (hand held) made that allowed only the wavelengths of light that had been found to elicit responses in tests on whitetails. It is amazing to hold them up and look at different clothes. Some fabrics and dyes reflect a huge amount of uv, even some that that you would not expect, like reds. It all has to do with the dyes. manufacturers use a lot of uv reflecting chemicals in the dyes. We don't see uv, but it makes the colors apear brighter and sharper to out eyes. To a deer it glows like whites do under black (uv) lights do for us.
Heck they smell me and here me way before they see me any way. :biglaugh: Interesting stuff.
im with thumper
if they see me im lucky
I just found the solution thru a add in American Hunter. Atsko.com 1 800 845 2728 makes and sells Sport-Wash and UV spray for 20.95 plus 7.00 shipping. They said it will work on all my camo? I just ordered it and I will let you know? Ken Denton
Ken,
That answer was in the 3rd post :D
I am interested to see what it does to the vest for sure. I do not think that is going to be it though.
Wool in greens and browns resolves this issue entirely. Most modern camo is made of polyester and nylon which by their nature are shiny. Throw in uv brightners and your a Christmas tree to a deer.
I've been using Atsko sports wash for years and I believe it works. However, with my trail cams I also come out in what appears to be ultraviolet. However, deer, turkeys, bear, moose and caribou do not seem to have noticed. Shot a deer on the ground once from 3 yards....never saw me.
Use wool
QuoteOriginally posted by Overspined:
Use wool
+1
Interestingly enough, I get the same kind of pics in my wool as I do in my fleece. My black wool sweater that I wear in my blind looks white in an infrared photo. Remember, the infrared in the trailcam is not ultraviolet...big difference.
Atsko makes a Sport wash AND a UV killer. I have used the wash for years,never used the UV killer.
Alot of wool that is spun and knitted or woven may have been made with UV brightenrs,same as any cotton/poly cloth.
Our felted wool vests are all natural colors with no dyes or UV brightners,I wonder what they look like in the cameras. I have had many deer and other wild critters look right thru me over the past 9 hunting seasons.
I agree Bill, BIG Difference from UV to IR.
hiya ken,
not really related, but what camera do you use-i am about to buy one- and your pics looked pretty good
The wool that I was referring to is my Ulfrotte long john top. I wear it in my DB blind when it is not too cold as an outer garment. I doubt that it has UV brighteners in it.
fujimo, we have 5 Bushnells Trophy Cam and it is the least expensive of the bunch, about 199.00. We resurched and decided on this one about 3 yeares ago. I have some wonderful photos! Ken
I think that breaking up the form is more important than this UV stuff. Almost every time I am busted is either my movement or smell. I also second someone talking about the type of fabric. Wool and other rough materials absorb or disperse light. Some of the new synthetic stuff is slick and almost shiny and tends to reflect light, not to mention it is sometimes noisier.
Also, there is a lot of white in nature - especially on tree trunks, so I don't think white or light grey is necessarily a camo killer. But, I have proven on several occasions that looking like a 200 lb. racoon in a tree attracts a lot of deer eyes! :p