I know there are several threads regarding the Hill style bows. Even one started by Rob for the "mild r/d" bows. So, here's one for the forward handle Hill style. We know that Howard shot a forward handle longbow because there is a photo of him in John Schulz's book "Hitting 'em Like Howard Hill". On page 16, Howard is shown shooting a forward handle bow in an exhibition in Japan.
Notice that I keep referring to this type longbow as a FORWARD HANDLE bow, not a REVERSE HANDLE. To me the term "reverse" is a negative connotation. Folks, there is nothing negative about this type handle. Forward, to me, simply means the handle is located in front of, or forward of, the limbs.
So, let's see some of these forward handle Hill style bows. I'll lead this thing off with my Massie forward handle that I've had since April of 1993. 64" 54# @ 26" walnut and hickory and rightfully named "Sweet Sue".
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e285/bard9l/IMG_1576.jpg)
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e285/bard9l/IMG_1575.jpg)
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e285/bard9l/IMG_1572.jpg)
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e285/bard9l/IMG_1578.jpg)
Danny
I have never shot a forward handle, but want to your bow looks sweet.
I really like the tips on that bow. Nice riser too.
I don't have a picture but yours is a spittin' image of my Northern Mist Whisper which remains the smoothest and quietest bow I've ever shot. It loves heavy wood arrows.
Danny-
I like the bow, it must be a pretty sweet shooting bow by the name of it. I have held my Hill bow with the handle facing forward and liked how it felt.
Darren
I was so very impressed with how silent and accurate this bow is but alas it is more weight than I wanted to shoot routinely so she's headed to Michigan.
Is it just me or does anyone else experience the comparative feeling between shooting these and a string follow bow?
Oh BTW, Thank you Danny for setting me straight on what to call these style bows. Forward does seem preferable to reverse...lol
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/mudd57/Bows%20for%20sale/DSC01825.jpg)
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/mudd57/Bows%20for%20sale/DSC01824.jpg)
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/mudd57/Bows%20for%20sale/DSC01830.jpg)
God bless, Mudd
i have a northwind gem forward handle
60in. 52#@28
and boy i love it
it's light,fast,smooth and hits hard
i still cant figure out the pic thing
and thanks again for the great deal on a great bow. :archer:
b44mag
You have some neat bows Mudd. I didn't even know these bows existed, but they sure are fun to look at.
Mudd -
There is something about the forward handle longbows that make them quieter than the standard handle bows. They do have the feel of a string follow, draw smooth and gentle in the hand. I like the bow you pictured. I thought long and hard about it when it was in the classifieds. It looks like a real shooter.
Danny
I've never shot a forward handle Hill bow, but I just can't get past the fact that they look like they're strung backwards. I'd still like to try one someday before totally dismissing them.
As a kind of halfway ... forward riser ... Allen Boice's Liberty English model actually has the riser in the middle of the bow if that makes sense ... it is about as forgiving and accurate a bow as you'll find .
I agree Danny , they are sweet forgiving shooters.
Captain Dick has made a few that are beauties. He doesn't sell though.
definitely "forward handle" and not "reverse handle". the "forward" is actually a form of deflex, 'cause that's what it adds and what it is. i shot a few of these, and they are smooth and stable. aesthetically, i just don't care for the looks, so for me it's fashion over function. :)
I had a Tembo reverse made by John Schulz with a nicely colored myrtle riser, it was marked 89 pounds at 29", I drew it to 27". It was faster, less shocky and smoother than an 89@27" standard Big 5 that I got a few years later. I'm not really complaining, for some reason, I could pheasants out of the air with the shocky Big 5. One Thanksgiving weekend, I shot 6 pheasants with it. I still think I was more accurate with the reverse Tembo, but I never hit a pheasant out of the air with it.
One of the best shooting longbows I had was an Elburg. It had a "reverse" handle, Hill style.
I'm like Rob above. I have had one and shot several, they were all good shooters. I just can't get past the fact that I don't like the way they look.
QuoteOriginally posted by dnovo:
I'm like Rob above. I have had one and shot several, they were all good shooters. I just can't get past the fact that I don't like the way they look.
I have to agree Dan. I don't know if I can ever get used to the look.
God bless,Mudd
I have not shot one but as stated above I cannot get past the way they look. I would like to shoot one someday but will not buy one to try out. One of the beauties of traditional archery is shooting beautiful bows. They may be the beaut to someone but not me. I think my next bow will be a Hill with string follow.
Had a North Wind Gem a couple years ago. Really liked that bow. I a moment of stupidity I sold it. Bad move. Just got a Northern Mist Whisper a month or so ago, haven't had chance to try it out yet. Once deer law is over I'll give it a go. If it's as nice as the Gem, it's found a home.
Owned an Elburg forward handle longbow quite a few years ago. Sure wish I still had that bow. Very smooth and stable.
anymore pics?
I'll have some of my new JD Berry forward handled "Hill" now shortly. I should have it in the not to far future
My Liberty Classic handle riser looks very close to Ric's pic and with the string follow limbs is a very sweet shooter. I too like the look of my HH Wesley special but it is not as easy or nice to shoot well.
58
EagleWing Frontier 66. Carbon , NO shock to speak of , String follow, Carbon backed, Very fast for any D bow.
(http://eaglewingarchery.i8.com/images/Frontier/bow16_229x1217.jpg) (http://eaglewingarchery.i8.com/images/Frontier/bow8_334x660.jpg)
very cool.
BTW guys. See the brace on that bow. 6 1/2 inches. forward riser does not mean you cannot have a low brace. No power loss there.;
God bless you, Steve
Steve from now on before you post a pic of the frontier you need to give a guy a warning. It gets harder and harder not to buy one they just look to much fun
Glenn, not as fast as your bows but everyone that has one loves it. I gotta shorten em up though. Its costing a bunch to ship these onepiece bows now. LOL
I have actually been thinking about sending them out as a glue together two piece with no warranty.
God bless you all, Steve
HA!
Jim Belcher has the original forms for the Massie forward handle bow. I talked to Jim the other day and he is going to build me another bow off of the original form. Additionally, I just sent "Sweet Sue" up to Jim for him to examine.
The forward handle was the only bow that Jeff Massie built for several years and (trust me) Jeff had the design "down pat".
Best shooting , most accurate D long Bow I EVER owned was a forward handle model > I ordered it that way ! Was sweet for the first 150 shots or so then it exploded . LUCKILY it did that right in front of the guy who built it . SO I got my money back and a small cut on the forehead .
PROBABLY not the fault of the bowyer . At the time ( Late 80s ) there was a lot of bad Glue/Epoxy gong around and a lot of bows were commimg apart.
WAS very fast and VERY forgiving while it lasted . ALWAYS appreciated forward handle bows since then recurve or long bow .
I've had a Northwind Gem (which I'm still kicking myself for trading it, and would like it back.) I also owned a Northern Mist Whisper. I like bow also but the poundage was a little much.
I keep watching the classifieds for any forward handle longbow that meets my specs, someday!! :D :D
I have a Northern Mist Whisper that I'm really pleased with!!
I started not to post this because what bow shoots good for a person is such a individual thing and everyone has his or her favorite but I got a NM whisper a couple of months ago and I shoot it better than any Hill style bow I have and probably equal to my old standby 21st Century bow.
I talked to James at JD berry today and he should be working on my forward handled American bow , he has named it "Morningstar" , real soon. I'll post pics after I get it. I am getting excited
I have shot the Northern Mist Whisper and it is a very good shooting accurate bow. It inspired this bow. And Steve calls the Whisper a "reverse" handle so that was good enough for me. Doesn't really matter what we call them i guess.
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/typical2/2013-03-08_22-30-56_271_zpsed5a2570.jpg)
I have had two whispers and both were great bows. Love reverse handled longbows. Brian really excited to see that new JD. Berry reverse handle. Love berry bows, his american style bows are awesome. I have a vixen and a misty dawn, gonna have to add a morning star to the rack. Lol need more room
My NM Whisper is always my goto hunting bow. The design just hits where you looking and is very quiet.
I'm happy to see that I'm not the only one that really appreciates the forward handle bow, no matter who makes them.
:thumbsup:
(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q618/brianlocal3/Morningstar/file_zps4e32d5f3.jpg)
The New JD Berry Morningstar
(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q618/brianlocal3/Morningstar/file_zps81113fd1.jpg)
(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q618/brianlocal3/Morningstar/file_zpse32194ad.jpg)
and the full draw pic.
(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q618/brianlocal3/Morningstar/file_zps2580e332.jpg)
That's cool Brian.
:thumbsup:
That Morningstar looks sweet. :)
^^
now i have to order another bow....
Back when I could pull more weight I gave away a light weight forward handle bow that was one of the best shooters I ever shot. Now that I've wrecked a shoulder, I'd do anything to have that bow back!
Holy moly brian that morning star looks sweet love the handle and how it doesnt crescent out like the rest u see. Looks like an actual american style turned around. So glad im on the list for one of these dudes. Now the wait lol.
I love that yew showing.
Brian is this the bow that Mr Berry made for himself? (I hope so)
After his spring archery 3D season he will be shipping his personal bow to me for comments...lol
I am one blessed dude and may have found another style of ticket to "Sherwood"!
God bless,Mudd
Yes that's his
I'm kindof on the fence on the morningstar, it looks like its been strung backwards, just one mans opinion.
JD
It does look like its being string backwards for sure. Aesthetics have always held me back on these style bows, but I think James nailed this one in that the riser maintaines that classics American longbow look
That "Morningstar" is the most beautiful bow I've ever seen. WOW! I usually search the threads for Hill style bow topics but I somehow overlooked this one until now. I am so glad I got on James list for one of these when Brian posted that he would make one. As usual, James' bows do not disappoint.
I recieved my Morningstar yesterday and it is more than I could have asked for!!!!
Brian where are the pictures of your Red Elm "Morningstar"?
Patience grasshopper! LOL. work, children , and a term paper have me tied up presently but a thread is soon to come
I cannot believe that Mudd doesn't have one of these. I was about to pull the trigger on one myself, when my water heater gave out. Then the plumber checked my furnace when it did not start up right and declared later that he could not find the parts to fix it. If it is not the kids needing money, it's the house. Now I've got the 'green mit envy blues' again.
I'm about 6 weeks away from getting my new forward handle from Jim Belcher. Anticipation.... :coffee:
Brian, your Morning Star is a beauty... more sweet yew. I got to shoot one at the Berry shop tonight! Smooth draw and dead on. Have fun with'em boys!
JW
The Morningstar is straight up cool looking Brian. Fine looking riser and sweet fades!
I like the Northern Mist Whisper for this style of bow. :thumbsup:
QuoteOriginally posted by Ric O'Shay:
We know that Howard shot a forward handle longbow because there is a photo of him in John Schulz's book "Hitting 'em Like Howard Hill".
Danny
Lots of pictures and video of him shooting and hunting with recurves too. To me a "Hill" style bow is bow like his "regular" handled backset or string follow longbows.
Like several others, I favor the Northern Mist Whisper. I just seem to shoot more accurately with the forward handle, and when I shoot with others, I heard a lot of comment on the quietness factor (700+grain arrows probably have a lot to do with that part). In fact, I have two of 'em, and pretty much hunt with the original only. The second is a two-piece takedown that Steve made for me, so I could ship it to GA when I flew back there. It is marked identically to the first, but came out with a five lb. lighter draw weight. It seems to shoot heavy POC's about the same as the Griz Stiks from the heavier bow.
I admitantly was not and am still not a fan of most of the glass over reverse handle bows. For me a straightlimbed bow had a particular look to the riser that I love. Most of the reverse handles have the fades rounded off so that the glass lays there. What I love about the JD berry is that the riser maintains the "true" American longbow riser look, that alone sold me on it, and since recieving it ...oh my it's a joy
(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q618/brianlocal3/1C105215-A7EC-4AF3-A158-9E55495AF59A-8130-00000FF070C7C16D_zpsccc62beb.jpg)
(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q618/brianlocal3/C6A5EB95-ECB8-4B9B-A769-332AA0CABF5C-8130-00001003BD767F92_zpscf0ce56b.jpg)
That's the classic look I'm referring to, it's reversed but still the overall shape remains unchanged. Fantastic
Brian -
I see what you mean. I almost looks like James took a glued up left handed bow, turned it backwards and cut the shelf on the side for a right hander.
"Almost"....it really does look like that to me.
The main thing is that the limbs are on the belly side of the bow and not the back side,
Brian that is a pretty bow, even if it is made backwards...lol
I am truly a blessed man!
I just took a call from James and his question to me was: "Mudd are you up for a quick trip to Sherwood?".
My reply "Always, of course!".
James asked if I would take his personal bow (a Misty Dawn or Morning star, I can't remember which now) and put it through it's paces and call him with feedback.
Does it get any better than this?
Wow!
I am humbled that anyone would chose me to try out their bow(s).
God bless,Mudd
Mudd,
That's fantastic. You will love it if it's even half as good as mine. Although James did use bamboo cores instead of the obviously superior red elm core LOL, very good feel and performance from this bow
James called and me and wants to leave a massage. Brian has very good taste until it comes to the core woods, then he just falls apart.
Rick I wish it was that easy. lol
Very nice work Dan!
Shoot straight, Shinken
:archer2:
Ouch Dan. I'm gonna go cry now. Ha
Hahaha!!
I haven't know James for a long time but long enough to know his feelings about elm... red or otherwise...lol
God bless,Mudd
I have elm cores in a Northern Mist whisper, and a classic. I think it's an amazing core wood. It's really smooth and light/quick.
If you can shoot a Hill bow, you'll bust more nocks with a Hill bow in reverse!
Brian,
Sweet Bow!!!! I got to get one of these.
My son shot a 64" Northern Mist whisper with the elm core at Waterloo and still thinks it was the best shooting bow he has ever shot. I for one like the glass going around. A reverse does not need to have as much squeeze because of its inherent forgiveness. There can be some loss of performance, but if I ever buy another longbow it will be a reverse that may be on the short side.
I think in the future, most Hill style bows will be reverse handle. They are just that much easier to shoot. What do you guys think?
I wondered what you meant by the glass going around, now I see what you mean. It makes me think about making one with a little more depth, but then I'd have to narrow up the belly of the gripes it wasn't so big around, and I'd rather not do that. I like the wider, rounded belly of the grip, it's so solid. I have small hands though. Funny, on the standard hill I like a deep, thin, knife grip...
Here are some of Howard shooting his reverse handled bow
(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q618/brianlocal3/F3927152-6F7D-417F-8A15-F9F56672461A-8680-0000111FD808BF30_zps17288a14.jpg)
(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q618/brianlocal3/0850666F-A9C8-4D07-9CFF-D84AD293AB0F-8680-0000111FC514C43B_zps8c0d3062.jpg)
(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q618/brianlocal3/131F128B-329A-46C3-9D55-29D60D66D6B0-8680-0000111FBA754BCF_zpsabb83cf8.jpg)
Thanks Charles for emailing these to me
James's reverse handle went into the mail today so maybe by Tuesday I'll have some personal thoughts and experiences to share with you.
Those are some cool pictures of Mr Howard shooting Brian.
Thanks for sharing..!!!!
God bless, Mudd
Eaglewing Frontier 66. Carbon back. Bow is a blast to shoot. No silencers needed, but unlike a lot of d-bows the string is so dead on release you don't get that string vibration. Feels like most hybrids when it comes to handshock. Plus Steve's work is well above most out there with his wood work
(http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu36/L82HUNT/IMG_0635.jpg)
(http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu36/L82HUNT/IMG_0625.jpg)
(http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu36/L82HUNT/IMG_0623.jpg)
(http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu36/L82HUNT/IMG_0631.jpg)
(http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu36/L82HUNT/IMG_0632.jpg)
Glenn, I see you got it.
Can you say why that bow is so much fun to shoot? I honestly have a hard time figuring it out.
For some reason I just get a real charge out of shooting that bow out of all of them I make but I cannot explain why I feel that way. To me its like it just way solid and dependable, I feel like I can take that bow and absolutely go get critters with it.
God bless , Steve
QuoteOriginally posted by Sixby:
Glenn, I see you got it.
Can you say why that bow is so much fun to shoot? I honestly have a hard time figuring it out.
It seems with this style of bow that I can get away with more error in my shot. If I'm shooting a curve or a R/D and have a bad release, do something with my bow arm I can really notice it in both arrow flight and impact. This bow if I do that stuff there very little if any effect. I really think in a hunting situation it could play a role.
Brian dont mention it. Looks like forward/reverse handle bows will be making a come back. Traditional archery is a kick in the pants. Maybe we will see some of you gents at the Moses Lake, WA shoot on the 19,20,21 of April.
Such a good thread, and I realized I never added my JD Berry Northstar (stringfollow forward handle)
(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q618/brianlocal3/ED5BE491-BB0A-49FA-BCF9-7289CD0F0917-13903-00001F337973ED2E_zps25395bc9.jpg)
(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q618/brianlocal3/E163B4F6-9CEB-439D-9803-A7F2281648B3-13903-00001F33B8C74062_zpsed2e76c8.jpg)
(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q618/brianlocal3/BDC31A4D-BBEB-46AD-99FF-8FD39C1F8629-14940-000021E42DEC7CE0_zps0e433054.jpg)
(http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q618/brianlocal3/jd%20viper/null_zpsf7e6e13f.jpg)
JD Berry "Northstar" 66" 46@28 .
The "Amazon Queen"
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/mudd57/DSC02367_zps45e9305b.jpg) (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/mudd57/media/DSC02367_zps45e9305b.jpg.html)
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/mudd57/DSC02366_zps22ca8e96.jpg) (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/mudd57/media/DSC02366_zps22ca8e96.jpg.html)
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/mudd57/DSC02361_zps19ecbbb6.jpg) (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/mudd57/media/DSC02361_zps19ecbbb6.jpg.html)
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/mudd57/DSC02362_zpsb1003ef4.jpg) (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/mudd57/media/DSC02362_zpsb1003ef4.jpg.html)
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/mudd57/DSC02364_zps86454fef.jpg) (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/mudd57/media/DSC02364_zps86454fef.jpg.html)
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/mudd57/DSC02365_zps456c26d1.jpg) (http://s218.photobucket.com/user/mudd57/media/DSC02365_zps456c26d1.jpg.html)
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/mudd57/th_MOV02360_zps6c69467c.jpg) (http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/mudd57/MOV02360_zps6c69467c.mp4)
God bless,Mudd
Oh, I love those pics
It looks to me like all you have to do is take your regular Hill style back-set form, reverse your string nock grooves, and you have a forward riser stringfollow.
I have a Hill Style stringfollow form I've built a couple of bows off of so I think I'm going to try the opposite. That way I should have a forward riser back-set bow. I have some eastern red cedar I've been dying to put into a bow so I think I'll use that for the lams. Ah-La Dave Johnson.
It is similar in form , just be sure to calculate in your lam stack and tapers for the reverse bends.