Trad Gang

OK.  I posted a ?? on Ulfrotte earlier. . .

Larger question I am trying to learn. . .
At 51 and growing up in the north woods (Northern MI) since I can remember (3-4 yrs old), I am still trying to figure out this underwear thing.  Help educate me. . .

For example- I just learned today that merino wool is a base layer (never knew that)- as the tech fabrics do eventually dry, but not necessarily right away.  I also see these newer hi-tech fabrics like UnderArmor- but I have a hard time spending $60 on a piece of underwear.

So- what do you guys wear at varied ranges (0- 40 degrees); without breaking the bank and typical hunting here in the midwest;  a bit of walking but mostly on stand.  Wind is always blowing. . .  

Thanks-
Dan (with a filled buck tag in KS)

Its hard to spend the money on the UA but when you do you won't regret it.

my underarmour has lasted 10 years. money well spent.  I layer in wool and for my feet my wife made some overbooties out of felt and thinsulate that slip over my rubber boots.  shove handwarmers in them.  I may get bored but I dont get cold anymore.  cabelas will have occasional sales on underarmour late winter.  you wont have your choice of color but who cares its under everything else

I wear my Under Armour every where I go!!

QuoteOriginally posted by Hill Hunter:
Its hard to spend the money on the UA but when you do you won't regret it.

I got rid of all my regular "long johns" once I found Under Armor Cold Gear. That stuff is expensive but flat out works.

Bisch

High Tech under garments such as Smart Wool, Duofold ,and under armour are worth every penny. Just think your on stand for 3 hours warm as toast and the Buck of a life time comes in. WACK you get him. Or after 3 hours your shivering ,miserable, jumpy trying to stay warm. Here he comes while your climbing down to go back to get warm. SNORT see ya.

What I wear is simple Polypropelene(spelling)long underwear(helps wick away sweat, Then polar tech fleece top and bottom(cabelas) they have a high neck and the shirt is long to cover your kidneys, the pants have 6" of elastic at the bottom to keep your socks up and pant legs in the boots. then whatever outer garment you want I use a longhunter shirt from Ron La claire(made from blanket wool.And socks are either silk first or polypro and then wool overthem. I dont care for underarmor, personaly dont beleive in it.

 The key to keeping warm is to alow moisture to wick away from the skin, and to have air space so your body will warm that space up and keep you warm.NEVER wear cotton its the fabric of life just not hunting life. And goose down is an awesome insulating material. Wind will also rob you of body heat,the fleece and wool does a great job of stopping the wind.I was in a cold weather battalion in the Corps and went to some cold as heck places and this method keeps you warm. JMHO based on experience.

ive been thinking about the ua myself and need to spend the money one of these days
but so far the mil surplus polypropelene has served me quiet well

Fleece or merino smart wool then the outer garments.Fro my feet, if I am on a stand, I'll use 2nd. world war Mickey boots, can't beat them !, just make sure you have a good inner sole to keep the moister away from your feet.

You can get silk longjohns at Academy or Cabelas. They are not real expensive, are very lightweight, and they are warm. The silk wicks moisture away. On colder days just layer regular cold weather clothing over the silk.

Woolies. Grey ones when its cold. Black ones when its really cold.

John

Mernio wool. I got some UA cold gear and I HATE it. The UA is not made for sitting on stand. IMHO

doug77

I just wear whatever the Army issues me.  It isn't always great, but it's free and if you pile on enough of it and top it off with wool, it works.

Thanks guys.  Problem with silk is it takes a longer time to dry however!  I have heard that UA also takes time to dry. . .

Here is the issue:  I hunt rather stealthy.  I walk into a stand, or check new areas during the rut.  I rarely hunt the same spot twice.  I put up a stand and take it down at every sit- the process takes less than ten minutes on each end.  So- I need to be ready to sit a stand all day in the cold- yet need the ability to be mobile.

I am really thinking of merino as a base layer instead of tech fabs.- at least for my upper body.  I have wore some earlier version tech fabs (Like Patagonia or Cabelas)  with an outer layer of wool and fleece- but the tech fabs take a while to dry and they do not insulate while damp!

Still listening to you all. . .    

Dan

Just wear layers and remove the outer stuff while exerting yourself(walking in and setting up) and add layers as you get ready to sit.

another one for wool without a doubt.  I elk hunted in Under Armour two years ago for 12 straight days, my brother and my dad told me that I stunk like an outhouse, I haven't bothered with it since, plus I did not like how it felt against my skin either.  I find that wool stays "stink" free better than any other fabric I have tried.

As far as brands of wool take a look at Justin Charles, Ibex, Smartwool, KUIU, Firstlite or even Filson.  If wool makes your skin itch I would not recommend the Filson, if you are looking for a soft itch free next to skin wool then I would try the Justin Charles, Firstlite, KUIU or Smartwool.  As far as insulation goes I always start with a "base layer", most of the above companies make a base layer and will tell you this is the layer that you should wear next to your skin, this is typically the thinnest layer that they offer which helps wicking moisture away while staying dry.  After that comes the more "thick" layers.  For early season elk I typically wear a base layer over a camo shirt.  I typically do not need another insulating layer of wool until later in the year when the temps start to drop.  

The only down side of wool is that it is not wind protecting, and if not properly cared for will typically have a short life.  

The fact of the matter is that mountaineers are still wearing wool on Everst, this should account for something.

Minus 33 Expedition weight with a light wt merino short sleeve t-shirt underneath. Works in a wide range of temps. Minus 33 is best bang for the buck. I've got Smartwool, Ulfrotte too.

Guru had a post about base layer-insulating layer and wind block layer that was the best at summing things up. I'll look for it.

Here it is:

http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=110437;p=3#000032

I have converted to merino wool for all my hunting, warm and cold weather. It wicks, cools when it's warm out and warms when it's cool out. I find the tech fabrics are cold and clammy when they get sweaty. They actually wick so fast they chill you. Worse yet the tech fabrics stink to high heaven once youve worn them a day. Merino, on the other hand, does not smell when it gets sweaty. I've worn them for days on end and the stuff just doesn't stink. So, unless you like doing laundry daily, you've got to buy several sets of tech clothing to get through a weeks worth of hunting. A couple pairs of merino is all you need. Merino isn't cheap but you can get by with fewer pairs. Duluth tradin company carries merino long john's. Also check out Minus 33 (Hanks Clothing a good source), First Lite (they have camo), Kuiu, Smartwool, Icebreaker.

I wear the 170 or 200 gram weight as base layer when cold or outer layer when warm.  400 Gram over that when it's cold. Regular wool top over that when it's windy or wet.   Try it, You won't regret it.

Minus 33 ALL THE WAY!!!!

Costs less than Ulfrotte, thinner, tighter weave, softest thing I have ever worn.

I tried silk, it works, but it's fairly expensive and not durable at all.

My woolies ROCK!

As usual- great input!    :campfire:  

lpcjon- I for sure do that, but you can't carry the kitchen sink with you!   :)  

Steve K- exactly my experience with tech- cold, clammy, and smelly. (Besides expensive)    

I always thought (and have read) that base layer had to be some tech wicking layer.  But I am realizing that many wear merino wool AS THE BASE!  I am thinking that is what I am going to try.

Under armor cold gear.

I do not like under armor unless I am moving all the time. I think everyone is different and some people just get cold (I am one of them) I think for the most part over dressing is a large problem, causing sweat and making you cold. I have tons of under garments (but have never tried the merino wool, on my list). The best I have found for the coldest weather is stuff from Cabelas, poly fleece stuff (made from pop bottles) it's fuzzy and brown, if I move I sweat so it's just for sitting below 0. Trial and error is all you can do, it would pay to write down a list of temperature and what you wore, then you would remember.

I wear Duofold Sportsman with a high merino wool content.

I seem to sweat the most down the middle of my back. For years I have sprayed my feet with unscented anti perspirant to keep them from sweating which causes them to get cold, so I asked the wife to spray my back with the anti perspirant this year.
Yea, she looked at me kinda funny, but she did it. It really seemed to help stop the sweating that causes me to chill.
I also wear a merino base, then, if it's windy I wear wind stopper pants and shirt over the merino. Then regular hunting clothes.
Another thing that helps me stay warmer is a scarf around my neck. It's worth it's weight in gold.

Someone has misinformed you.  Both silk and poly dry much, much faster than wool. That's the reason they are so widely used as base layers.

Wool is warmer and stays warm better when it's wet.

I go with base layers high in polyester. Mostly UnderArmor knockoffs. So long as they are the "compression" type clothing that fits you like a glove it works.  Academy Sports and even Kohls department stores have knock offs of the Under Armor base clothing that is practically identical. I think the Kohls brand is called "Tekgear". A long sleeve top is around $12. I bought two pairs of pants at Academy Sports last week for $8 each. I do not wear anything cotton beneath this base layer, not even normal "underwear". These are really only for moisture wicking and really do not provide much in the way of warmth by themselves. I wear these pretty much throughout the season, in warm weather they help wick away the sweat and you are comfortable much sooner after settling into your stand.

On top of this, depending on the temperature I go with various weights of Duofold. Have used it for years and been very satisfied with the performance. For mild cold I have middleweight and when it gets really cold I have a couple of Duofold "Union Suits" I found years ago that the one piece design keeps me warmer day in a day out than the two peice thermals.

I also like turtlenecks on top of this. I have several that I picked up at Target for a minimal cost. The turtleneck keeps my neck warm and helps keep heat from escaping around my collar.

Then my camo goes on last. For me that is usually a pair of camo jeans and a long sleeve camo T-shirt 1 size larger than I normally wear. So far this season I have not even taken a coat or jacket with me to my stand. I did wear my new Asbell pullover one day but just had on the long sleeve t-shirt underneath as it would have been way to hot otherwise.

Good luck!

I am not sure about that Jeff. I know all the claims, but that is NOT how it plays out in my REAL world (that is why I am questioning it right now-kind of like scent lok debate!).

Silk and poly spread the moisture over a larger area which allows them to dry- EVENTUALLY. Meanwhile, as they spread out the moisture you are wet, COLD AND CLAMMY- particularly in the wind.  Wool wicks and gets wet too (and may dry slower)- HOWEVER it is NOT COLD AND CLAMMY!  Besides all of this- in my latest study here, it appears that the lightwt. mernio dries pretty darn fast.  I think that is my new direction to try.  Thanks for the input.

I bought two different weight merino tops from KUIU and they seem to work really well.

I am a believer in a merino wool base layer.  you can get sweated up going in and still stay warm.  They dry fast too.  Nothing better for regulating body temp both ways.   Personally I own some minus33 long johns.  they are my favorite piece of gear.

Fleece for upper, poly for lower--cheaper stuff.  I also can't justify spending that much on something that has an X on it.

I like carol davis sportswear union suit. It is the warmest I have found and the quality is outstanding.

"The key to keeping warm is to alow moisture to wick away from the skin, and to have air space so your body will warm that space up and keep you warm.NEVER wear cotton its the fabric of life just not hunting life. And goose down is an awesome insulating material. Wind will also rob you of body heat,the fleece and wool does a great job of stopping the wind.I was in a cold weather battalion in the Corps and went to some cold as heck places and this method keeps you warm. JMHO based on experience."

x2.
Base layer of any of the synthetics, merino wool, or silk. Heavy or midweight will probably suit you well, depending on your body's thermostat and how you layer. Wool and fleece are warm, and down is warmest and moderates temperature best when you're inactive in cold temps. Something windproof or at least wind resistant is highly effective as your outer layer.

I have used a lot of different systems and prefer a base layer of polypro underwear.  Cabelas has some decent stuff that's not too expensive.  Polypro dries very fast as it doesn't absorb water like wool or other natural fabrics.  I can hang up my soaked polypro underwear after wearing it all day and it will be dry in a matter of a few hours.  

Wool is fine but it NEVER dries out once its wet.

I use the Rocky mid-weight from Wal-Mart. Cheap and works well.

So far this year I've been very pleased with the Terramarr ec2 Helix (geeze, sounds like a stinkin jet fighter!) lightweight long underwear.  As a base layer or just under my wool bibs.  

I use Mil Spec expedition weight polypro as the next layer when it gets truly cold, but so far this year we haven't been below freezing much; let alone below zero.  Global warming.  Yea!

Check out Patagonia for base layers...light, medium or heavy weight. I've got Ibex wool also that does the trick.

I have union suit from Cabela"s it is sleeveless as I worry about my core being warm. It is a combo of Merino wool with an under armour layer adhered to it, absolutely the warmest pieceof clothing I own and it was around $100 but I have had it 8 years and it is still in exc. shape. Shawn

Dan, You really owe it to yourself to try KUIU's Merino wool layers against your skin(others might be ok too, but I know KUIU uses the absolute finest merino wool in the world).

I'd always worn synthetics of some sort, some were fine, others were so cold against my skin I couldn't stay warm no matter what I put over them!

But since starting to wear KUIU's merino, I've never had a more comfortable against my skin!

It dries amazingly quick, and even after wearing it for days at a time sweating during turkey season this spring...it never developed any "fowl" odor. The same can't be said for the synthetics I've experienced.

Now I only wear KUIU merino top and bottom, and smartwool merino sox on my feet.

I've gotten a bunch of merino wool sweeters at the local goodwill stores I wear them as long underwear warm soft and  about $3.00.

I bought several ase layers prior to my elk hunt this year,some sitka poly pro tops, and some merino wool tops and botttoms. When its hot, I liked the poly, but for the most part, I prefer the merino. AS mentioned, it has a great natural ability to not get stinky. That poly stuff gets ripe fast. I had a few prs of poly boxer briefs, and 1 pr of merino briefs. The poly would get funky in just a day, where the merino didnt stink even after a couple days bivy.

The price difference between UA, or sitka poly layers isnt much different than the merino,and well worth it. I definitely plan to pick up some more merino layers. Love the stuff.

Thanks guys.  Checking KUIU out Curt. . . as well as others.  After all the discussion and other study I am going to try the merino as a base layer.  Now for the best product/economics. . .

Thanks again guys

Dan in KS

I have been an avid backpacker since '89. I did the "tech" bases for years. I tried merino and have not gone back. one reason is that it gets stinky quick. The main reason is I do not get cold when stationary.
I currently prefer Woolpower 200gram as my base top as it is easy care at wash time. The Smartwool is great for that too (I use this as my bottoms), but the Woolpower has the extra length in the back for kidney coverage.
I am switching over to almost all merino (or other wool) for layering this year due to my experiences. I still keep 800-900 down for vests and sleeping. (Hammock convert BTW, no sore back in the AM)
Ordered the last Evening Stand Brown pullover the Asbells had today, and plan on making a trip to REI to pick up a Smartwool TML Midweight this weekend.
The big drawback is wind, but that can be overcome with  a thin wind layer.

As far as economics/price:
Right now REI has all Smartwool base layers, gloves, hats, and socks on sale for 20% off. Orders of $50+ are free shipping. So a midweight bottom and crew top are both at $64. The zip top is $72 and the boxer briefs are $45. Assuming bottoms and a crew top, that is less than $130 delivered--or about the same price as the Woolpower top after taxes. Boot top bottoms are $4 cheaper if you use high insulated boots.
I have been a Smartwool fanatic for years because of durability and ease of care. Their socks last me 3-4 years of everyday use November - April (all I wear when it gets cold)
The Minus 33 midweights are also on sale at essential apparel and are about a two thirds the cost of the Smartwool, but I do not have personal experience with that brand.