Today a Co-worker expressed a disgust in me because I hunt.
I expect this reaction from people from time to time but it never prevents me from discussing hunting in public.
I calmly asked her why she despised me for hunting?
She said, " I dont agree with your killing animals".
remaining calm I mentioned that I found it peculiar that she hated the fact I am a hunter.
She looked at me like I had 2 heads.
I explained there is a difference between the act of hunting and the act of killing.
I still had 2 heads in her eyes.
I explained the difference between hunting and killing. I told her I enjoy the pursuit of animals and trying to get as close as possible.
I told her I found it a little short sighted, she hates all hunters based on the assumption they are all also killers.
At this point mentioning I am also a killer if given the best responsible shot opportunity and if you choose to hate me that is your prerogative.
I asked her if she would like to hear why everyone alive is a killer weather intentional or unintentional?
She politely said no! but her response was shocking. "I never thought of it that way", she said.
Made my day that I actually could discuss this with someone without butting heads.
I think having discussions can go a lot further than an anti hunting bashing seminar. If the other party is not open to conversing, then its not the time or place to force ideas.
Well done. It's rare, in my experience, that you can reach a rational point of discussion with people coming from such an emotional position.
I usually don't bother trying to engage when I run up against that, especially when I can tell they're looking to get a reaction out of me. I simply take solace that these people will be the easy fodder when the zombie apocalypse happens.
Good for you Charlie......but as you get older ,you will find it's harder to tolerate idiots. :thumbsup: :notworthy:
your a good man Charlie, myself well lets not go there...
well done
:thumbsup:
Wonder if she feels the same way about her local butcher when she buys a chicken or burger or steak!
I usually tell people if they eat no meat and have never had anything made of leather they can say whatever negative thing they want about hunting. Otherwise they are just paying someone to do it for them. All I'm doing is cutting out the middle man. ;)
Rob
:thumbsup: We're not always prepare to face antis and explain our point of view,especially when itS aggressive. Well done.
A little patience goes a long way in some situations. Way to open her eyes, even if it was just a smidge...
Some still think any killing is wrong or unneeded. Boggles the mind sometimes.
Ron, lets not forget where I work! Although You may be right, I will find it difficult to retire from there.
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob W.:
I usually tell people if they eat no meat and have never had anything made of leather they can say whatever negative thing they want about hunting.
While somewhat true, many fail to understand that even vegetarians use compost from beef and dairy farms.
Nice job CR.
I hear ya.....I guess I'm becoming an old curmudgeon....lol! I may be already there :biglaugh:
QuoteOriginally posted by DGF:
While somewhat true, many fail to understand that even vegetarians use compost from beef and dairy farms.
And that agriculture has, more than any other human activity, been the single biggest disruptor of native habitat and species. Think about that next time you order a veggie burger.
:clapper: well done :clapper:
I couldn't do it. I would have told her in a far more rude manner to keep to herself (far rude....with some foul language thrown in).
If you dont agree, dont join the conversation. If you want to argue, join a debate.
I've turned several people around completely the last few weeks. After they expressed a very negative opinion of hunting I commented that I assumed they were in favor of reintroducing Wolves and other dangerous predators back into the area, which means of course you won't be able to let your kids and grand-kids out to play alone.
When they asked what that means I explain how the animal population maintains a healthy balance in nature, between predators and prey.
Then I explain how the deer herd is managed to keep it healthy and how taxes on all hunting related sales go to wildlife conservation.
I felt good about how they replied that they never thought of it that way and it changed their mind on it. I can tell right away the ones that don't want to hear reason, and simply change the subject.
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob W.:
I usually tell people if they eat no meat and have never had anything made of leather they can say whatever negative thing they want about hunting. Otherwise they are just paying someone to do it for them. All I'm doing is cutting out the middle man. ;)
Rob
Bingo!
my replies to a woman who "hates seeing those cute animals get killed by barbaric hunters".
part of her pitch were statements from the dalai lama and froude.
"Killing animals for sport, for pleasure, for adventure, and for
hides and furs is a phenomena which is at once disgusting and
distressing. There is no justification in indulging is such acts of
brutality.
~ His Holiness The Dalai Lama"
he is careful not to include the killing of animals to sustain human
life. he talks only of animal killing for profit - either ego or money.
he may have been a vegan, but he fully understood the need of the
overpopulated middle east's need for protein, or the world for that
matter.
"Wild animals never kill for sport. Man is the only one to whom the
torture and death of his fellow creatures is amusing in itself.
~ Froude (1818-1894)"
this truism has nothing to do with hunting but with how man treats man.
i doubt froude was a vegan. :)
what these "great minds" fail to consider is that the act of the hunt is
an innate, genetic survival factor that hasn't yet been eradicated from
the human gene pool after millenniums. to disregard this core human
truth is lying to oneself. it's the same truth that can be observed in
all carnivore pet animals, who exhibit a strong desire to hunt and kill,
even though they're well fed by their human caretakers, and yet they do not
consume their kills.
in this century, some humans do hunt for "sport", without regard for the
creatures they stalk and kill, use inappropriate weaponry, and do it for
all the wrong, inhumane reasons - mainly for the "trophy" and for the
ego. they do not esteem the creatures they hunt and kill, they are not
careful to kill in a humane manner, they do not use that killed animal
to sustain life, be it for human or animal consumption. they do not
understand or act in the manner of the old, ancient ways - which go back
only a century or so with the american indian, and then further back to
just afterprehistoric time.
some humans hunt in an ethical, humane manner that is far more
considerate and respectful of the creatures they prey than the manner of
animal death delivered in commercial slaughterhouses for animal, fowl
and fish. instead of grocery shopping the easy way, they choose the
harder way, and the game they efficiently kill are used to sustain life
in the same manner as buying meat at the local butcher shop.
in the modern act of "hunting", for the ethical hunter the kill is
ancillary and not the ultimate goal, and the reason why that hunter
fails to kill most of the time when hunting. there are other attributes
to the hunt to be considered, including the connection to nature, the
order of the universe, and the ancient ways. this becomes far more
apparent with the hunter's choice of hunting weaponry.
if a human does not consume, or utilize in any manner, animate creatures
- animals, fowl, fish - their personal crusade for promoting only a
vegan attitude towards human survival is quite rational. maybe in some
millennium that will be true for all humans. however, if that is not a
human's profile, someone had to kill those creatures for that human to
eat and use. there is no moral validity in a "human partial vegan",
that's just another form of hypocrisy.
Well said Rob.
I had a similar conversation with a vegitarian. I pointed out that these vast plots of land that have been leveled, poisoned, and cultivated to provide vegitarians with their food were once lands that provided food, shelter and security for wildlife. I was told that "that is different".
I did mention that Hitler was a vegitarian and Himmler a vegan, but she thought that was not common enuf to place her in that group of beliefs.
GENSIS 27:3 says it best.
"A soft answer turneth away wrath."
Great conversation!
Great patients with the uninformed.
I can't help but thinking how fast Human Resources would have been on you if the initial statement had been reversed.
Sadly, I am usually not as composed as you were.
I have been known to say "I don't understand why you feel that way, but to show you there are no hard feelings I am going to dedicate my next kill to you." (and no I don't tone it down to use the word Harvest. Harvest is what you do to crops where I am from!)
If someone has an emotional bias against the violence of a human killing a wild animal, you won't win them over with a rational argument. You may get them to grudgingly accept it if you eat what you kill, or maybe on the grounds of population control. Those are also my own personal justifications, and I tend to agree with the Dalai Lama to some extent beyond that and find the trophy mentality distasteful.
I always told them "Hey lets all go vegan"............................ then we will have to kill animals because they are competitors for food or we will just destroy all the habitats in order to cultivate more land to support food for everybody :archer:
What Rob said x2. Rob W. and Rob S.!
There's a mis-perception about cultivated land use for human food. I don't recall the exact numbers, but raising beef cattle, etc. takes much more land and feed than feeding people directly. That is, it's not very efficient- even with feeding cattle corn (which they're not designed to digest)grown with petroleum based fertilizers. In that context, wild game is much more efficient- until you try to scale it up to supply the huge American appetite for meat.
Reminds me of a tee-shirt that read: "If I Need To Explain, You Wouldn't Understand." Most anti-hunters are caught up in their emotions when they see you with "two heads". Not the (best) time to teach them about hunting or yourself...
Explain to someone how you prepare the meat and spice it up for the table and ya' may get their attention... Works for me. ;) I turned an entire department of anti-non-hunters around by feeding them venison a couple times.......
... mike ...
Well done. Sometimes you can subtly make people see the hypocrisy or fallacies in their own arguments.
Occasionally that is enough to plant a seed that will make them start to question their own beliefs or sometimes they just close themselves off.
My guess is that in this case that seed has been planted and you will have further discussions regarding the pro and cons of hunting. Hopefully in the least she will acknowledge that hunting may not be as bad as she perceives
Using Dolly Llama to back their anti hunting agenda is one I hVent seen before. Thats funny. I'll stick with the Book of Genesis. Thats all the justification necessary. The is but one God, and not the one DollyLlama follows. So his opinion means absolutely Zilch.
Genesis 27:3, 9:3.
I always try to have an intelligent conversation with those against hunting. Many come to it from an entirely emotional side and they are usually not able to fully hear any arguments, but I wold rather leave them with the impression of a reasonable human being, rather than an ignorant idiot that the anti hunting organizations have done so well portraying hunters as.
I get to have this conversation fairly regularly as a 7th and 8th grade science teacher with lots of pictures of me with animals I have taken on my computer slideshow. This is an age where they really start to try to figure out how they fit int eh world, and often have older sisters who have gone the vegan route. There are lots of analogies that point out the falicies of many of the ideas they have been introduced too. It is easier to convince them if I am reasonable and use a bit of humor.
Charlie, Well done. I too get this at work.Plus with being a trapper. You stayed focused and calm and you know that facts. The truth has no agenda.
Assuming she eats meat, poultry or fish she may not have blood on her hands but she has blood on her money. I choose to do some of my own killing so I don't forget where meat comes from.
JW
Well done Charlie by not be rude or foul to her you have presented your point and given her something to think about.
I have this conversation on a daily basis. Being married to a very understanding vegetarian, with not so understanding vegetarian friends can be a challenge. Surprisingly to most folks though, Jules (The Wife) is firmly in my corner. Being a hunter is simply being a responsible carnivore. She won't eat meat because she can't stand the thought of an animal dying to sustain her, while she has an alternative & I completely respect that. If I can't bring myself to kill an animal, I believe I don't have the right to force that responsibility onto somebody else & I shouldn't eat meat.
The fact that I enjoy the hell out of hunting & fishing is a total bonus & I never use it as a reason, during these debates.
God, Buddah, Jaweh, Allah etc..... aside, I only ever get irate at this topic if I'm having this discussion with another carnivore. 99% of the vegetarians I've debated this topic with are very understanding. They may not agree with my sentiments, but they can at least respect & understand my choices. The real rabid, irrational opinionated morons who won't even listen, all seem to be meat-eaters.
QuoteOriginally posted by robtattoo:
... The real rabid, irrational opinionated morons who won't even listen, all seem to be meat-eaters.
amen to that, brutha rob, amen.
Good job Charlie. I have been questioned about hunting and killing at my work place (pharmaceuticals), too. I tell them "Look, our job here is to produce anti-biotics that are designed to kill things. And we are good at it." Most of the people can't make the connection. They think it's OK to kill living things like bacteria, insects like mosquitos, flies and fleas but it's not OK to kill animals for food.
I guess it all goes back to who's teaching who. A few years back when my nephew was in 5th or 6th grade,his class had to draw a picture of what they did over thanksgiving vacation. Well his dad had taken him dear hunting that weekend. They got a nice 8 PT. He drew a picture of it hanging on the meat pole with him and his dad cutting it up. The teacher went ballistic. School meetings, psychologist,Dept of children. A few months of BS because there was something WRONG with him because of his sadistic picture. After the school could not find anything wrong with him or the family they backed off. Beware who is with your children all day and what they are instilling their heads.
QuoteOriginally posted by Beanbag:
I guess it all goes back to who's teaching who. A few years back when my nephew was in 5th or 6th grade,his class had to draw a picture of what they did over thanksgiving vacation. Well his dad had taken him dear hunting that weekend. They got a nice 8 PT. He drew a picture of it hanging on the meat pole with him and his dad cutting it up. The teacher went ballistic. School meetings, psychologist,Dept of children. A few months of BS because there was something WRONG with him because of his sadistic picture. After the school could not find anything wrong with him or the family they backed off. Beware who is with your children all day and what they are instilling their heads.
if that wasn't so maddeningly and pathetically true it'd be funny. :mad:
Charlie I commend your ability to have a calm,logical conversation. Well done. Some people are Very hard to reach , and for you to even get her to see your side of your conversation without dark glasses is a bonus.
Maxx
Thanks for the kind words. 5 years ago I would have been intimidated by all the NO and anti hunters that surround me.
Now I take the opportunity to talk about hunting every chance I get regardless of the audience.
I think if we hold a CALM and collected conversation, show respect, intelligence and not try to force our stand point down throats of people, as a collective group, we can better our image.
This is also true about telling other "hunters" to "shut up :readit: " when they are talking loudly in public and saying things that would make people look at us like a bunch of red neck idiots shooting at anything that moves for the sole purpose of pleasure of killing.
"Madam, I believe strongly in animal rights. I am an animal, an active participant in nature, and I have as much a right to hunt as a redtail hawk who surely gets as much joy from hunting as I."
--Me.
I tend to approach these conversations like Rob W. mentioned on page one, by pointing out their leather purse, or that sudsing agents in beer are animal by-products (so I'm been told), or leather upholstery in their car, etc. And that, yes, if they don't want to actually do the killing themselves, I don't have a problem with that. But don't chastise me because I'm willing to, as Rob said, cut out the middleman.
Or I try this logic. Should animals have the same rights as humans? (YES, they'll say). Okay, wolves kill deer, right? (YES). Well, if animals have the same rights as us, we should have the same rights as them since we're just animals, and therefore I have the right to kill something to eat it.