First of all, I believe any deer is a trophy with any weapon. However, I've taken my share of small bucks, so I usually put a doe in the freezer and try to take a mature buck. This is my 4th year hunting with traditional equipment, and I'm using a bow I made myself. The other day while still hunting, I had a young 5 point at about 5 yards. I passed on the young buck but got a thrill from the experience. I was telling my buddy at work about it and he said I should have shot it. He said it would have been a good one with a "long bow". A couple other guys at work quiz me occasionally about traditional gear, and they say they'd like to try and take a doe with it , but wouldn't want to use it to take a buck.
Have these guys forgot about our founding fathers and the hard work that they put forth to prove the bow and arrow as an efficient weapon so they could enjoy this sport today? What's the deal? I don't look down on their weapon of choice, why do they feel the need to seperate themselves? Do we have to prove the longbow and recurve all over again?
I don't let peoples ignorance bother me...just do my thing...
Smile and walk away!
I hear ya, on the flip side I've made kills in front of buddies and they always wanna take up the right way to do it...LOL...
Got 3 so far!
Yep I get that all the time infact I was at a trad shoot and a guy in the group was saying that trad equipemt was not ethical to hunt with. Of course he couldn't hit the broadside of the barn even though he was gapping. After a belly full of his soap box and following a 5 minute look for his his arrow again I agreed with him that it was very unethical for him to hunt with trad gear.
I've got a few nice heads on the wall and the thing that use to PO me more than anything was to have some condescending road hunters say "Pretty nice deer----for a bow"
Then I just started considering the source and realized if you let stupid people irritate you, it will just drive you nutz..
Laugh and consider the source, and move on.
QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisM:
Yep I get that all the time infact I was at a trad shoot and a guy in the group was saying that trad equipemt was not ethical to hunt with. Of course he couldn't hit the broadside of the barn even though he was gapping. After a belly full of his soap box and following a 5 minute look for his his arrow again I agreed with him that it was very unethical for him to hunt with trad gear.
:biglaugh:
The thrill of traditional is reserved for the chosen few. For it doesn't impose itself on those who have yet to experience its hidden treasures. Yet, the traditonal chest of good fortune will selflessly relinquish its secrets to those when ready and willing.
QuoteOriginally posted by Friend:
The thrill of traditional is reserved for the chosen few. For it doesn't impose itself on those who have yet to experience its hidden treasures. Yet, the traditonal chest of good fortune will selflessly relinquish its secrets to those when ready and willing.
So very true... :clapper:
Mac
Lots of forms of prejudice out there. Simple ignorance and the feeble attempt of the weak minded to try and feel better than others is what causes it.. Let the ignorant wallow in their foolishness and go on enjoying the adventure.
I let a young 8 point walk Friday morning because I want him to grow up. Although with most of the gun hunters shooting every legal buck they see he probably won't get the chance. There's a couple of guys at work who I can tell such stories to and who appreciates them. The rest are trophy hunters only. You tell them you shot a doe and they look down their noses at you. My advice is to walk away and leave them alone. They're not worth the aggravation.
The "founding fathers" would have been all over that five point like stink on an ape.
Art Young, Will Compton, Saxton Pope c. 1918
(http://www.bowhunting.net/artman2/uploads/1/Glenn21.jpg)
Fred Bear
(http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae64/Missaukee/Freds%20Whitetails/1975-FredBear-GrousehavenMI.jpg)
(http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae64/Missaukee/Freds%20Whitetails/1948-FredBear.jpg)
:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
First, I shoot what comes out! Buck, doe, or hog! I'm doing it so I can have meat in my freezer! if you pass on animals it is your decision, but I find that the meat tastes better than horn. Antlers are an added prize.
Second, people who think a traditional bow isn't effective or ethical, obviously forget the bow has been used for centuries in war and for hunting. Find new friends!
I understand stupid people, but cannot stand those who are proud of it by showing off speaking out of ignorance
In the cases that I've come across stupid comments have been the exception. Not the rule. The vast majority of compound hunters that I've shot with were impressed with the dedication it takes to shoot a traditional bow efficiently. On the other hand I've heard way more "holier than thou" Traditional archers who make us all look like A-hole elitists.
I have shared our hunting ground with former compound shooters that said things like "If I could do that I would be using longbows to." MY answer to those was always"you won't know until you try, Let me show you how. You'll see it is not as hard as it looks" Then there is a couple that had fun ridiculing us, one of which has lost two bucks this year, hates to share the land with us, and has a problem being able to tell when legal shooting hours begin and end. Some of the fastest learners and most dedicated trad shooters I know were dedicated compound shooters just a few years ago. It seems that the good and responsible hunters that are nice people are the most open to learning, hunting ethically, and taking on a new challenge. Some are dedicated to doing things right, while the few are mostly interested in being the big man and getting the big racks anyway they can. Trad shooters and those that are future trad shooters seem to always, in my experience, have that pleasant personable demeanor thing going for them.
I get more excited missing a deer with my bow than I would killing it with a gun.
I agree with fireball, some trad guys act like they invented archery and get to decide who is worthy of shooting trad.
Lead by example, let them use what they want. When they see you having fun/sucess they will start seeing the benifits of shooting trad equipment . I have gotten dozens of people started in the last 22 years . Pass the torch with pride and respect everyone's choice to an extent ,then challenge thier opinion with firm
respect.
Good Huntin'
Jack
I here that all the I have a 17 nephew that is into to bowhunting but his dad isn't, he is all about the technology, has to have the fastest meanest compound on the market! But I may have peaked his interest for traditional equipment! i have a line I always use on people when they say that using Trad equipment is unethical or not humane! I say what about those deer that are killed on the road with our motorized vehicles on the highways how much pain did that animal feel when it was hit, plus most of those deer will be wasted instead of being used for food! i usually make my case!
What Curt (Guru) said.
There are those who just want to kill "smoke" something who use a crossgun or compound as the easiest way to accomplish that outside of smokepole seasons. Then there are hunters. I'm not saying there aren't compound and rifle shooters who are also true hunters, just that there are two basic groups out there; hunters and idiots. IMHO of course.
A friend of mine always tells me to get rid of the "Indian bow" and use a REAL bow. LMAO. They just don't understand. The challenge. The spirit of the chase. The thrill. I'm not an elitist by any means and have taken lots of deer with the other bow and other weapons. But now I'm mature and don't need to kill every deer that walks in front of me. Simple pleasures, simple way of life.
And why can a trad bow kill a doe, but not a buck???
Honestly, who cares what they think?
I don't walk through life worrying about how others "see" me...
One die hard trad guy I know, started out by being frustrated with the ineffectiveness of his mechanical broadheads. I did not give him a bow, or shooting lessons or really much information. I gave him a sharpened 125 grain Grizzly broadhead mounted on an adapter. Apparently, they kill deer when shot out of compounds too and leave a lasting impression.
Just one man's opinion:
Not all hunters understand how I hunt, or why I choose my weapon. They may not understand the weapon. Their perspective is simply different from mine, as are their conclusions. Calling these people "ignorant" or "idiots" is probably the worst I can do to help them understand.
Hmmm, do you REALLY think they "want" to understand?
Hmmm, wouldn't we be better men for extending the hand...vs the fist?
Ignorance is never cured with hostility.
I've never believed my choice of hunting gear was better than anyone else's choice, just mine. But I also believe if I have to ansewer the question "WHY" They won't understand anyway. I smile and move on.
Kevin, yup! Not disagreeing with you at all. Just food for thought.
I'm just a smile and move on guy myself.
Dont sweat it, they are the ones who probably cant get a buck with the gear they use, unless the deer is paid for in advance and standing waiting for them to get settled in to the huge box stand and shoot.
I LMAO every time I hear the comment "I might use a traditional bow to shoot a doe some time,but I wouldnt want to shoot a buck with one"
I just look at em and say " well I might use a compound to shoot a doe ,but I wouldnt want to shoot a buck with one "
Then I invite them to come by the house so they can see some bucks that were shot with a recurve .
They can't do it so they think you can't either!
Bisch
Profound ignorance has a way of causing some to get a serious case of diarrhea of the mouth.
Maybe I'm the outsider here. I've never really felt threatened or irritated or angry at those who don't have a clue. They just don't understand, but that doesn't produce any negative reaction on my end. I've always rather enjoyed doing things that others think are unlikely or difficult. That's what led me to bowhunting originally, and why I still take the "road less travelled". If there is someone out there who thinks my archery hunting gear is questionable, I understand that. They might feel the same way about my ultralight ice rods for big fish. I get it.
I freely admit that I don't understand what everyone else is doing...so perhaps I am an ignorant man. I much prefer the term "unaware". When I came seriously to the world of "traditional" bowhunting, I began to see things I was unaware of. I held plenty of misconceptions. The graciousness of many good men helped me find knowledge, progress and awareness. I'm still very glad for these men, and I use their example in my life...in many ways.
I'm like Javi, I don't live my life worrying what others think of me. As my great grandmother always told us " Let others think what they may, keep doing whats right for you, never respond as you only show your ignorance to them, let it be" I think we would all be better off if we would just let it be!
QuoteOriginally posted by fireball31:
In the cases that I've come across stupid comments have been the exception. Not the rule. The vast majority of compound hunters that I've shot with were impressed with the dedication it takes to shoot a traditional bow efficiently. On the other hand I've heard way more "holier than thou" Traditional archers who make us all look like A-hole elitists.
This has been my experience too. I have yet to meet an archer with modern equipment denigrate recurves or longbows. Most are interested and respectful of the time needed to be proficient with traditional gear. I'm not saying they aren't out there, just that I haven't met them yet. Pretty much all the negativity I hear and read is by traditional shooters toward those that choose other weapons. The implication being that in general those not shooting a traditional bow are a bunch of ignorant slobs only interested in taking the easy way. I imagine somewhere there is a board of atlatl hunters knocking recurve shooters...
Part of the problem is considering it a battle to be fought. We're all on the same side, folks. It's easy to lose sight of the big picture.
There are morons in every group for sure including but certainly not limited to the traditional scene.
I was on a plane once next to a very "famous" trad bow hunter and after listening to him for 7 hours I was DONE with that guy.
Whatever, strange people all over the planet, in all forms.
David...good example. This ball definitely bounces both ways!
I guess I didn't realize we were at war with anyone. Recurves and longbows haven't been mainstream bowhunting gear for decades, so it's no wonder there's a generation or two of bowhunters who are honestly unfamiliar with them. It doesn't make those people ignorant, idiots, or morons, and it shouldn't be fodder for their ridicule. Maybe if they question whether or not recurves are effective hunting weapons it's because they've seen one too many person prop their stickbow against a 3D target while they look for yet another missed arrow in the weeds. Or perhaps they've seen one of those hunting shows where the host misses several shots in a row with his longbow.
My best friends son, fell to peer pressure and dumped his longbow and went compound. His friends, all newbies that I noticed hunt with the wind at their backs because that is where they put the tree stands, could probably shoot tighter groups and they poked fun of his old stuff. Like a couple others that I started that never put in the work to get good with trad gear, got a big ego about how good they were because they could finally shoot a 6 inch group at twenty yards and occasionally hit a bulls eye at 40 yards. Those kids immediately try their game on me, I make fools of them, because I can out shoot them on targets and I can shoot quarters out of the air, I can shoot game in situations that they cannot even begin to make work and game on the move. I think it is the fluoride in the water that makes them think they have something when they in reality have nothing, other than a mechanical conveyance that allows them to finally do one thing, shoot groups.
My favorite hunter, and yes I watch him on TV every chance I can get, shoots "traditionally" with a compound bow. His son does the same thing. He is as "traditional" as anyone here or there to me.
honestly, this has to be one of the most goofy arguements there is. Some good humoured ribbing between friends is fine, but to get all up in the feelings over something like this is hilarious.
I have not taken a deer with my trad gear yet in three years of trying. But I have had more fun and enjoyed my time in the woods more than I ever did before. All my friends that shoot compounds kill deer every year, but they admire and respect my dedication not to go back to the "easy" way. They say they dont have the will to put in the practice and time it takes and they dont want to give up their ability to take 30 or 40 yard shots.
Take it as a compliment. It would have been a nice one "with a bow". Killing any deer with a bow is, on average, more difficult than doing so with a rifle, sitting in a heated stand, prop'ed up, looking through a 8x magnified scope at a yardage measured with a range finder, etc., etc. If I passed on a young buck hunting "with an obsidian spear", would you not think the same thing?
i tell my self this lil saying all the time and to my trophy hunting friends that only kill big deer and look down their nose to others who don't.
SUCCESS IS NOT MEASURED IN INCHES. IT'S ALL IN THE EXPERIENCE AND ADVENTURE WHILE IN THE WOODS.
In general, as the level of difficulty increases (due to choice of weapon in this case), the bar for "a nice one" is lowered. Next year I plan to hunt with a Creek Indian bow and arrow made as close to authentic as possible (real sinew string, bow sealed with bear fat over fire, reed arrow with stone point, etc.). No arrow rest, no knock point, etc. Both the bow and arrow are made precisely from measurements of real artifacts in a museum. While stalking!
Compare this to the guy with a computer designed carbon limb recurve shooting a perfectly matched carbon arrow, using a non-stretch FF string, from a treestand that has patterned the deer using a number of trail cameras. A doe would be a true trophy for me, while the other guy may be looking for something with antlers. I hope someone says "wow, that is a nice one for that Indian self bow".
It relevant only to me the equipment I use and how and what I choose to hunt.
QuoteOriginally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
I guess I didn't realize we were at war with anyone. Recurves and longbows haven't been mainstream bowhunting gear for decades, so it's no wonder there's a generation or two of bowhunters who are honestly unfamiliar with them. It doesn't make those people ignorant, idiots, or morons, and it shouldn't be fodder for their ridicule. Maybe if they question whether or not recurves are effective hunting weapons it's because they've seen one too many person prop their stickbow against a 3D target while they look for yet another missed arrow in the weeds. Or perhaps they've seen one of those hunting shows where the host misses several shots in a row with his longbow.
Hiya Jason, just in case this was directed at my moron comment, the only morons that I personally am talking about are the ones who ridicule or belittle others on their choices. Has nothing to do with non trad guys against trad guys or wars or anything like that. Just the morons who say "my stuff is better than your stuff" or "my choices are better than your choices" all based on their opinion. A group of friends shooting the bull and picking on one another I get. But from what I'm reading here the discussion is not about that?
If it wasn't directed at my comment, Never mind! :bigsmyl:
Funny, I'm getting wrapped up in this one and when I first read it my first reponse was "who cares?" :banghead: I'm off to the woods! Good luck everyone.
David,
It wasn't directed at your post, with which I agree. It was more general in nature since this type of thing comes up frequently.
I shot wheel bows for a long time before picking up a trad bow. I still shoot both as there are aspects of both that I appeciate and enjoy.
When I initially picked up the recurve, most of the wheel bow shooters that I associated with thought it was cool and many said they had longed to try one themselves. (I'm not aware of any that actually have as of yet :-( ). Most of the razing I got came from friends that had razzed me about gear beforehand.
The only truly hurtfull comment I have received were from a few people that I perceived to be new to archery and ignorent to the fact that people still used such "outdated technology". I tried to talk to these folks and educate them on the many forms of archery. Some were receptive and some were not.
There are people everywhere that feel the need to tear others down. There are people everywhere that feel that their personal choice is better then everyone elses. Sometimes these people can be reasoned with sometimes not. Sometimes people just need to resolve their own way in their own time. Trad archery is not for everyone, nor are compounds.
The end goal for all of us is to hit what we aim for and enjoy what we are doing. I've never understood why the tools we use to achieve that end generates so much controversy.
It seems my point has been misunderstood. I don't care what people think or say. I too, smile and move on. My fear is this.... If over time more and more people tend to believe this, then who is to say our right to hunt with our weapon of choice will be threatened. We have enough trouble with the antis, we dont need criticism from our brothers! I could care less what others do, say, or hunt with!
This the point where the coach says, "Do you want to worry about what you think someone said...or do you want to play football"?
Let 'em talk. Do your "talking" on the field.
You need to give in and go buy a compound bow!
Kidding...
I think we all know that its just ignorance. All smart archers return to their roots..Simple is better. As long as you know the truth, In yours and your equipments capabilities, Thats what really matters
I carry pics in my phone of game i have taken with trad gear, most of it is better than what the naysayers have taken, so they rethink their position.
For the most part it is just there lack of knowledge. I would not say they are putting your equipment down. They way I interpit it is they are intrested in trying traditional. They are not confident because they dont know. I think they are saying they would not chance screwing up on a big buck when they have limited experiance with traditional equipment. When I made the switch back in 94 I shot both compound and recurve all summer. I hunted the rut with my compound because I was more confident with it at that point. I late season hunted with my recurve and I did not have any undo pressure on myself. I was mainly looking to harvest an antlerless animal. That winter I shot my first deer with my recurve and never looked back. No matter what your weapon of choice it is our responsibility to become as profeciant and knowledgeable as we can. Every one is at diffrent levels and has diffrent ideals. We can not impose our believes on some one when there skill level and experiance may not be the same as ours. I would personally rather see some stick with a compound and be an ethical hunter. Switching to traditional is a huge commitment and I would rather not see a half hearted attempt with wounded game. Hunting in general is a very personal. You deal with every thing from a casual hunter to some one like me who lives to hunt. I can not exspect every one to be as serious as I am. I would just alianate every one if I did. What I would like to see is just a little more common sense. Like maybe study anatomy of animal you intend to kill. Dedicate enough time with practice to be good at resonable and realistic bow ranges. I think your coworkers are just leary because they dont know and thats a good thing.
Scott
Don't worry about it. Even rifle hunters tell each other that they under powered..."you should be shooting a .300mag instead of that little .270w".
I shoot a compound, use trail cameras, shoot 5 days a week, compete in archery tournaments, my arrows are perfectly matched to my bow, and utilize my range finder. My father and grandpa use crossbows, and we all love to use our shotguns and muzzle loaders during gun season. I would be hard pressed to find a more patient hunter than my grandfather, he taught me everything my dad and I know about hunting. While my dad doesn't get to hunt much because he works 70-80 hours a week, I don't feel that they have any more of an advantage than I do, by using their cross bows. They still have to be proficient with their weapon of choice. I was ridiculed by a few older guys (because of my age and the fact I shot with a compound) and made to feel like I was less of a hunter because of my "alien" bow. On my way to the register to pay for my shooting and leave, ready to have that place kiss my you know what, the shop owner walked over to me. He apologized for the way I was treated and let me keep my $5 shoot fee. He asked me why I came into he shop that day, and I told him to shoot my compound a little, and because I had been interested in traditional archery, but decided not to explore that interest because of the old bastards in the shop. He said to not let them bother me, and commended my accuracy with my compound. Tom (shop owner) said that he would understand if I didn't want to come back, but said to give him 5 minutes of my time. I agreed because he is a nice guy and I was still interested in learning the traditional way. After 3 hours of talking with Tom, I decided to forget about the old timers. I couldn't b happier that I did, because I am well on my way to shooting traditional. I am not going to give up my compound, I've invested a large amount of money and hundreds if not thousands of hours of my time. I think it would b the coolest thing to be able to be hunting proficient with both my longbow and compound. Sorry for the rant, just wanted to get that out there. To each their own, and I was taught that hunting is about the experience and the journey, not about what you choose to take long with you anyway
Had the same thing happen last night was at a young farmer shin dig after a few big bottles of beer hunting came up in the conversation. My parnter said I hunt with a recurve and they were shocked that I did. they asked if I had managed to shoot anything with it then they asked why. All I said was I have shot game with my recurve and I hunt with it because I like the challenge of getting close to animals and shooting them with the bow. Then a young fulla piped up and said why carnt you do that with a gun. I said because I like hunting with bow game don't spook with a bow like they do when you use a gun. Then range came up how far can you shoot ect I said the object is to get as close as you can. Unlike where you pour money and time into a gun you can shoot as far as you want. With a bow its not so much about the bow it's about you how good you are to sneak in on game into there living room were you have succeeded in getting past his sences to shoot him. You don't shoot all the game you see but that's the joy of hunting sometimes you get him sometimes you don't. It's interesting most of the people think it's magic to hunt with a bow or something but I like to think they are interested in how or why we do it.
I enjoy being an ethical hunter, Traditional as well a firearms. I work in the hunting industry, ( Selling of Firearms, Archery, and associated accessories as well a hunting licenses ).
We get all types of people. Some think any type of hunting is abhorrent. Some rifles the only way, Some that any type of bow very lacking in accuracy and performance.
We as hunters need to try too educate as much as possible, that hunting in a great sport and fills a need in us and helps the game populations maintain a balance they need.
No matter how we hunt, we all owe it to the game animals we hunt to be the best we can and take the ethical road. Some people just don't get it we need to keep trying. Don
A lot of people I know have started shooting crossbows. One guy told be his success rate has gone way up since he switched from a compound. There are more people in the woods during bow seasson since crossbows became legal. I suppose it's easier to shoot accurately with less practice. I saw a guy jumping up and down on TV about killing an pronghorn at 90 yds with one. Very unethical to attempt in my opinion. Maybe some people will wound less game. Some others will probably wound more. All I know is I don't like it and it's not bowhunting. Just my opinion.
QuoteOriginally posted by TooManyHobbies:
And why can a trad bow kill a doe, but not a buck???
Because they fear they will miss a buck with trad gear but don't care if they miss a doe with it. Another manifestation of wrongheaded thinking assigning status to bucks over does.
For the most part I could care less what anyone thinks of my methods.
Up where I live in Northern Mi, its all about filling tags, most people, including my relatives, do not view hunting deer as enjoyable! My bro-inlaws think I am nuts for sitting in the woods as much as I do with Traditional equipment! They want to take deer in the shortest amount of time and by the easiest method that is legal at the time! Maybe its my age 55yrs old, i love to shoot my bow but I enjoy all my time in woods even if I never fill my tags! Always something new to observe in the field and always a new memory to be had!
Ponder this: Here (Norway) Deer, or any, hunting with a bow and arrow is plain and simple illegal, not allowed.
So be happy, and smile
Merry Christmas
K
I've never had anyone dis me for using a longbow. Most of them think it is really interesting..... one guy said, jeez, it's hard enough bow hunting with a compound..... I feel like I get respect with it. Just another of the many thisngs I like about using traditional hunting/fishing/sporing equipment.
Here is my new reply if any one questions my gear again.
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=110580;p=1#000000
I must admit I am still in disbelief that I did it. But when others seem surprised I just tell them that for 10s of thousands of years it was done like this.
Best phrase I use that stumps them all...."everything on this earth was harvested with a longbow or recuve long before a gun was every invented."
Oviously they catch on when they give you the "WOW. You're right" look.