Can't believe it. I just had a visit from the city police. They had a complaint that I was shooting a bow and arrow in the city limits. We have a little over an acre on a hillside. Our backyard is completely surrounded by a retaining wall higher than my head. I checked with the ordnance enforcement office and there is a city ordnance against discharging any kind of weapon - BB gun, bow, slingshot, you name it. I can't even legally shoot my air pistol in my basement. Ask me if I'm upset! It was so nice to take a break when working on the check book or some other tedious task and walk out the back door and shoot a dozen arrows.
The officer was very pleasant about it. We discussed my new bow, the new bow he is planning to get and his upcoming moose hunt in Canada, but bottom line is I gotta take my hobby elsewhere. I can shoot at our gun club anytime, and the good news is that I can set up at any reasonable (or unresonable) distance, but it's a 20 minute drive from here. Call me TOTALLY bummed out.
Unbelieveable!
I've typed 3 differnet rsponses and none even come close to describing my anger, sadness and trepidation.
The king is dead, long live the King.
I'm sorry to hear that. It's a bit annoying that someone would report you rather than simply come over and talk to you about it first.
I should probably look into my city ordinance on this as I like to take some shots in the backyard a few times a week.
I know who reported me. It's our neighbor lives on the hill above us. Believe it or not, his complaint was the excessive noise of my field points hitting my bag target. He works nights and it bothers him when he's trying to sleep. 75 yds away with the windows closed! I said the same thing; "Why in the world didn't you ring my doorbell instead of the dispatch office. I would have changed to a different type of target". Turns out he's anti-hunting and was just wanting to make things difficult for a hunter.
Yep I had that happen in the golf course community that I lived in. Totally enclosed backyard with a 6 ft rockwall and a 6 ft fence on top. Neighbor complained and I got shotdown.
Same guy stands on his front yard and hits golfballs across the street to his buddy.
I sold the house and moved to the country.
You might petition the city counsel for a waiver.
Mike
Bummer.
Out town council just about did the same thing. I was unable to attend the meeting, but I emailed them a memo (I'll forward it to you.) And then I called around and did some lobbying. It worked!!!!
They excluded bow and arrow from the list of weapons.
man thats just wrong sorry to here
i think i might get shut down also but so far im good to go
anti hunters are just ##$%^@(^%*#!)))$^&#??
thats all i can type about this
That really stinks!
Thanks PaddyMac. It' worth a try. Maybe they can ammend it to read "unless a proper backstop is erected to prevent arrows from leaving the area", or something like that. Looking forward to seeing your memo.
They can keep you from shooting in your basement? Time for cardboard on the windows!
That truly sucks. Motivation to move out to the sticks for sure. On our road there are only two families who don't actively hunt and shoot in their yards, and of those one is neutral (just not a hunter/shooter) and I've gotten the husband of the last hold outs thinking he needs a .22 rifle; maybe even a bow. :biglaugh:
Sad news indeed. I've been shooting in a small section of woods, against a hill, that separates 2 marinas where I live.
I'm very discrete, plus it's the end of the marina where the boats not being attended to are, but I'm constantly expecting someone to complain. This is a very liberal area and I wouldn't put it past someone to do it for spite, assuming I also hunt.
I was recently directed to a range only about 10 minutes away by NJLOCO that I didn't know about, so I've been going there instead. I can practice properly there too.
Sorry about your loss. Maybe you could set-up something in the basement for form work between trips to the range. I can get about 6 feet in my boat and am considering working on my floating anchor and release in here this winter, when I get pretty much shut down for several months.
I can't believe in Greenville they have that ordinance!?!?!. Where I work the ordinance states what yours does but they added....."or at an approved range".....Try talking to the Police Chief and ask him or her to inspect your target and the area where you shoot and maybe he or she would approve it. If that does not work try going to a city council meeting and plead your case there. You might find a sympathetic ear and get wordage added that would alllow you to shoot. Good Luck!!!
Same here in nassau county long island. No firing a bow in yard.
The chief of police proposed a new weapons ordinance here and he picked one up some boilerplate off of some national web site that included everything from nunchuks to throwing stars to arrows, etc. I got them to leave bows and arrows off the list.
Most towns already have a reckless endangerment provision.
So what I said was don't fix something that isn't broken.
You might just check if the high school has archery in PE class. Ours does and the city has an ordinance against fire arms and would like to say archery but they have told me until such time as they get a complaint on me it's a non issue.
I had to take a double take on where you live, before reading Michigan. I thought for sure you must be living here in the Soviet state of NJ, this I could understand, but Michigan ! I feel for you brother !
Good luck.
Got your memo PaddyMac. I like it. I will do some editing to address an existing ordnance and also follow up on bluesflb's suggestion. They grant exceptions to all kinds of codes here in Greenville. Maybe I can get some sort of exception for a properly constructed, approved site.
Thanks guys.
Ron
Most likely a neighbor tipped them off.
Don't you love anti hunters that want to impose their views on everybody else? It's too bad that 1. Your city council wrote the ordinance to include bows, and 2. Your neighbor is a jerk.
I just came in from shooting in my back yard and read your post, and gave thanks that so far, my town council has better things to do than enact ordinances like yours. Here's hoping that you will be able to get the ordinance amended.
I think the FOR SALE sign would be up at my place before nightfall.
I am SO Lucky to have Neighbors that Dont Mind My Archery Practice on my 15 Yard Backyard Course!! Of course I have a Car & 1/2 Garage I use as a Permanent BackStop. If those Concerned Citizenz dont come to a complete stop in the street, most Cant See Me out there Anyway!! :readit:
Thats why I am Not, nor have ANY Interest in Local Politics. Too Many Compromises or down-right LIES to get their Agenda Clear. Forget that Penny-Anty , "You Scratch Mine, I wil Scratch Yours" Crap that has been going on since Time Immemorial....... I will Put My Soapbox Away now, and stop the Rant. :thumbsup:
Arrows hitting a Bag Target causing too Much Noise?? Oh Please..... :banghead:
The two things that I would do is 1} put up a "For Sale" sign and 2} go have a talk with the neighbor. This is ridiculous. It's amazing how people want to control what others are doing when they should just mind their own business.
In a popular bowhunting area as Greenville is that's ridiculous. I'd appeal it if you haven't already.
Try setting up an olympic style target and tell them your practicing to try out for the summer games. Maybe if it isn't hunting related they'll leave you alone.
I got nailed by our city cops here too for the same reason and now have to shoot elseware!!!!
Most of these ordinances include a catch all that is broad enough to cover bow and arrow even if it isn't specific, like "projectiles." I can understand the thinking behind these ordinances, but it would be nice to see a little bit of prosecutorial or neighborly discretion for those that clearly aren't hurting anyone. That is how it is supposed to work. You need the rule in case some idiot is shooting his compound at squirrels in a neighborhood, but the law shouldn't be used as a hammer, when a scapel is needed.
I would be very upset if I couldn't shoot my bow in the yard, and would probably take up a new hobby that makes a whole lot of noise at certain times of the day - horseshoes maybe? :D
Gosh, I think I'd have to mow my grass and run the leaf blower next to his window EVERY DAY for the next month or so...its fall you know and you gotta keep ahead of those darned leaves!
Yep, and take the mufflers off of them. Run them full speed !!!
That plain out stinks!!!
I am sorry to hear it. I shoot in my yard and stay discreet and am always in fear of when my day will come.
I am doing everything I can to get back to the country. Even small city life sucks! I wont be happy til I find a place that I can shoot bow naked if I wanted to. Way the economy is it may take awhile. I feel for you.
Rob
It's not that I can't afford to move. I couldn't afford the divorce if i did. My wife loves it on the lake here. She gets to talk to everyone walking by and knows everyone around from walking our dogs. Nothing could get her out of this place. I was going to walk up the hill and talk to the neighbor, but had a beer with dinner. Don't want him calling the police back telling them I came up to see him drunk. The idiot even came down one day and said he wanted to put up a deer fence around his place to keep the deer out of his garden and shrubs. I said "Sure. No problem". Should double check and make sure it's not over the property line. I should start baiting them up there now that it's legal again and see how long it takes them to push his fence down. Not that I'm mad or anything:-(
I feel your pain. I lived in the city during college and hated having to drive to shoot. Now I can pee off my front porch and shoot when I please. Both of which are pretty fun. :)
Plant 2 rows of alternating pines all around your back yard. In 3-4 years it will be grown enough that you can shoot all day and no one is ever going to see you or have any clue you are shooting. Then cut off just the very top and they will grow nice and fat but no taller.
You could also put up a privacy fence or do both!
I like the tree idea. We have a bunch of old growth pine that is 60 - 70 feet high, but of course no growth down below. Lots of scrubby little maple and oak stuff, but some good pine or fir trees, trimmed as you suggest would make a good screen. And, he couldn't see through them without coming down the hill, which is all our property. Not a quick fix, but something to get started on for help down the road.
I would take up another habit like practicing for the Elk calling championship during the day. But thats me and my irish nature is to start ****. If he would of come over or called me, there would not be a problem. I had it happen to me when I was a teenager living in Delaware. Now I moved where I can shoot a rifle and pee off the front porch at the same time. I feel for ya.
We have a law on the books that states, No shooting of any single projectile weapon. About 20 years ago a man accidentally shot his son while target shooting. He was shooting along side his house and the boy ran out as he shot. The boy recovered but the law was in place. We have convinced the local mayor to set up an archery range on city property. Should be in place in the spring
Montanawidower, they is just something about peeing off the front porch and lookingup at the stars. I also agree with the shrubery to block the line of sight and getting a softer target like a rhinhart.
Here is podunk ********* County, some development made up their OWN covenance (?) that forbids "launching any projectile" and a guy I know got shot down for shooting behind his solid fence.
Legally, that would prohibit kids throwing baseball or frisbee or shooting hoops!
Total insanity but a sign of the times!Sounds like it's time to put in a basement extension 50' long and 7' high, poured walls and flat slab over top and you've got an indoor range!
Course, by a lake, groundwater might make that not so smart eh? :scared: :knothead:
Instead of the loud fieldpoints, I would start cold forming metal in my backyard to create artwork and tell him if he complains that you need the fresh air for your creativity with the hammer or start some decent indian drum practice ;-)). I bet that will help this yerks sleep and he can't even do anything against it.
I can't understand people who move into those nasty city limits or developments.
Stay out of there if you like to shoot anything and let the city slickers deal with themselves. That is the reason I could never live in one of those developments or within city limits again...
I always make sure no one is in their yard, whether in front, back or to the side of me when I shoot. If so I retire for the evening and wish I had more land.
i know what you are dealing with. i live in a golf community, there is an ordinance about all the things you have mentioned, but things ended up working in my favor. a town policeman stopped by my home to let me know i had to move my tool trailer. your not supposed to park those in front of your home in our community. he also made mention of my archery range in the side yard. when i explained to him what i participated in, as well as building some selfbows. he aske to see one and i offered him to shoot it. i gave him a quick tutorial and a demonstration, " im not supposed to even watch you do this" was his reply i shot one arrow, retrieved it and he asked to try ." im not supposed to be doing this" he told me. 3 yrs later they drive by my house once in a while. sometimes while im shooting. i get a wave as they drive on by no questions asked. im guessing part of it is i have a good bunch of neighbors too, none have made any complaints to local law and some are begging me to take out some of the deer in their backyard lol. rv
Tune up te chainsaw a few times a day for about a month..............
Seriously, it is time to do everything legally within your power to make the putz miserable. The only reason people screw with you is because society tells you to let them. I would buy a propane gun for scaring birds. Get a permit if you need to for it. Turn it on during his sleep time. When he complains tell him you're keeping the deer out of his yard. People really need to learn to mind their own business on their own land. Living in the county I can shoot in my yard. If I hit someone I am held accountable. A city liberal will legislate you to death to prevent what rarely occurs. Screw freedom, legislate everything. Dumb and dumber is what I call those folks!
You know, all this get even s*** is fun to talk about, but I have really tried to be a good neighbor for the last 14 years. I have a shop behind the house for my knife making. I haven't done much forging since moving here because my anvil needs work and I don't have a real steady base for it. I could go up to the shop and start pounding the anvil until it drove him nuts. He'd just file an excessive noise complaint. The guy won't talk to any of the other neighbors. Maybe he'll have a nice quiet stroke and I'll read about it in the paper. 'Till then, I think I will get busy planting trees.
Buy a dog that likes to bark.. Tie him up at the back of your property.Better still just play a recording of a barking dog all day, when the police show up, you don't have a dog. Gets my Irish up. ????People
Unfortunately, the city has an ordnance against barking dogs too. Too many complaints and you get cited for harboring a nuisance. And we do have 2 dogs.
Boy, talk about being scw@$#ed. Time to move!!!. Every time you find some road kill, just drop it off in his yard. Maybe he can give them a decent burial.Pet cemetary kind of stuff. Maybe he can stop all the traffic in the neighborhood too!! lol
I am a Bylaw Enfocement Officer, it's tough sometimes telling good people what they can and cannot do one their own land. I will say though that I do enforce with a good measure of discretion and view complaints with a healthy amount of objectivity. Some people live to complain.
Might be worth your time to investigate thee wording of the bylaw and perhaps a letter to council arguing your case and citing the relative safety of arhery comparitive to other legal pastimes.
I will say this though, if I was told I couldn't shoot in my yard a for sale sign would be going up awfully quick. We bought our first house a few months ago within the city limits. This is a five year plan max, then I want a good hunk of proprety where I can shoot a moose of my back porch if I so desire.
All the best in your fight my friend.
That one main reason I live in Texas and in the country. I can shoot a 30-06 out my back door or burn my lawn or trash in my burn barrel w/o breaking any law, pee wherever I want to. My neighbors (which I can't even see) do the same. "Heck he must be shooting a semi pistol, rat-tat-tat, or he must be tuning up for deer season, boom- boom- boom" I'd never live in a town or city, ever!!
I feel for ya but sometimes we have ourselfs to blame. Don't tar and feather me.
If you remember back about the thread , what's the worst/crazy shot you ever did. There was a lot of, I shot my neighbors roof, neighbors car, side of neighbors house, windows, cars etc etc. Do you think that had anything to do with the ordnance of shooting anything in your own yard.
I am not saying it's right but sometimes we are our worst enemy.
Sorry to hear. I would have a range in my own basement though.
Someone always has to bitch and I could "get it" if you were popping off .22s at squirrels in the neighborhood trees but archery with a good back stop is no one's business.
Sorry to hear it. My elderly back fence neighbor could care less...I've retrieved arrows from her flower beds when I manage to miss and slip one under the fence. She even comes over for cocktails on occasion.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bladepeek:
It's not that I can't afford to move. I couldn't afford the divorce if i did. My wife loves it on the lake here.
How big a lake? Wood arrows float fletch up. Milk jugs float. Rowboat to retrieve arrows & jug. Problem solved. :thumbsup:
Sorry to hear that. People are crazy now days. My closest neighbor is about a mile away and it's getting to crowded for me. I can shoot my guns, burn trash, walk around like Adam did in the garden, shoot deer off the front porch and just about anything I so desire. If you buy again I suggest to buy outside any city limits and buy zoned agriculture. I hope you find a solution to the problem soon. Good shootin Dave
I feel your pain. Moved to the country to avoid this very subject.
But It would be a shame for a few skunks to visit that neighbors back yard. Of course, he shouldn't mind, being kin and all. :)
Bummer! Very sorry to hear of things like that.
The city where I lived for 33 years had a ordinance just like that. The chief of police lived next door. Turns out, over the years we became hunting buddies and he said if no one complained I was good to go.
Call me old fashion but the cops would probably have to make a visit again cause I would have a VERY VERY serious talk with that fellow. Thats BS. Stinking riduculous
:mad: :mad: :banghead: Where is our freedom these days?
QuoteOriginally posted by Ragnarok Forge:
Seriously, it is time to do everything legally within your power to make the putz miserable. The only reason people screw with you is because society tells you to let them. I would buy a propane gun for scaring birds. Get a permit if you need to for it. Turn it on during his sleep time. When he complains tell him you're keeping the deer out of his yard. People really need to learn to mind their own business on their own land. Living in the county I can shoot in my yard. If I hit someone I am held accountable. A city liberal will legislate you to death to prevent what rarely occurs. Screw freedom, legislate everything. Dumb and dumber is what I call those folks!
Sigh....what he said
Man that sucks, on a lighter note I love the bow I got from you.
Richard, I hope you have a ball shooting it. I decided to test my outer limits and just got a 55#. I can shoot it fairly well, and I will work up to where I can shoot it comfortably, but the lighter bows are still a lot more fun for me. Figured if I continued to shoot a couple of times a day, every day, it wouldn't take long. Now I have to plan a trip to the range. Forget a shooting glove, or decide I want to try a different weight point - forget it.
Guess I'm the odd man out here. I'm not implying that you're reckless, but I've seen plenty of people that are. I have no idea how the property is set up, but if you truely live in a city setting with houses on both sides and behind you, then I have no problems with the law banning shooting in your yard.
I have two small children that are outside almost everyday. If one of them gets shot or anything lands remotely near them while they're in my yard playing, I would most likely beat you to within an inch of life. There are some things you don't fool around with and my kids' safety is one of them.
Some things are made for the country, and firing weapons is one of them. (Banning shooting in your own basement is rediculous though) No one can guarantee every single shot they take will hit where they aim. Accidents happen and if I didn't feel that it's safe for my kids to play in my own yard, I would have no problems calling you out on it or notifying the cops.
Just giving another perspective here. It sucks that you can't shoot in your yard, but you made the choice to live in the city. If there's nothing behind your property, then they should allow you to shoot in a safe direction.
RM81, technically we are in the city limits. We live on a lake, 2/3 of which is in the township and our 1/3 in the city. Our house is built on a steep hillside with lakefront (and a street) in front of the house. The rest of the 1.2 acres is up a hill in back. The back yard is excavated back into the hillside and at ground level with the first floor. There is a head-high retaining wall around the 45' x 20' area. The only way I could get an arrow out of the back yard would be to shoot it up in the air. I'm ex-Detroit police, from a family of policemen. The law says no shooting in the city limits. I wasn't aware of it, but probably could have guessed. The officer who responded to the complain is an acquaintance of mine and was most sympathetic. We talked bow hunting for a good 1/2 hour. I fully understand the purpose of the ordnance. If I lived on a flat city lot and had nothing but some skinny bushes to stop an errant arrow, I wouldn't be shooting there. While technically in the city, we are as remote from a typical "city' setting as you can get. I fully intend to pursue getting a variance to the ordinance by demonstrating that I do, in fact, have a safe range to shoot. Don't know if I'll be successful, but I'm sure going to try. Meantime, I will respect the neighbor's right to have the law enforced. I just hope he falls off his roof and I can ask him if he'd like some help. There would, of course, be a condition to his receiving my help :p
I see what your saying. As long as you aren't putting others in danger, I would fight it and try to get a variance too. Sometimes people post pictures of their "backyard shooting ranges", and I see them shooting at 5' vinyl fences with swingsets on the other side and it really ticks me off.
No reason to be upset to learn we're actually expected to abide by the laws of our communities.
And I've seen plenty of folks touch-off compound bows, airguns, real guns and even a full auto battle rifle into the air by accident.
I bought my house 2 years ago. I work for County government, so I did some research and specifically chose a township where discharging a bow is legal. I feel your pain; if a few citizens were to push through a change in the law, I'd be shooting only in my basement.
ADDED: I also have a very safe shooting background. Even an errant arrow would have a very hard hard time reaching anything it could cause injury to. I've talked with my neighbors, and they, knowing that I exercise great caution and care, have told me that they have no problem with my backyard shooting.
Archie
Whenever the wind was blowing his direction, I'd fire the grill up for a cook out. Ever smell limburger cheese over charcoal? Surely there isn't an ordinance against grilling cheese.
The likely root of the problem is not the city gov, but instead lawyers. I imagine the city listens to risk analysts that advise them that they have to take these measures to control their insurance costs, avoid potential lawsuits, etc. In the unlikely event that someone's kid got shot, the city gov would have egg on it's face if it had not passed such an ordinance banning the discharge of a weapon. Remember, something is now always somebody's fault! Maybe don't be as hard on the city council and major.
I feel for you, I recently bought my house and one of the main reasons I bought it was because on the 20ft concrete sound-barrier wall that I back up to. (I live next to a freeway) I just hung some old conveyor belt behind my 3D target to save $ on broken arrows from hitting the wall.
If someone made me stop shooting in my backyard, I'd be heartbroken!!
I probably shoot 50 arrows 6 days a week.
Good luck on your variance.
Hey guys. What do you say we cut this off for a while. I stopped by the library and got a copy of the city ordnance. Says (somewhat shortened up) bows and arrows are potentially dangerous. To protect life and limb they are not allowed to be shot in the city. Exceptions are at ranges certified by the police chief to be safe enough to provide adequate protection that an arrow will not enter a neighboring yard. Protection can be earthen or man made. I have a request in right now that the Chief visit my backyard range and, if it appears safe, certify it for me. I'll update when I get an answer. There's usually a simple solution to problems without getting into an "I'll get even with you contest". More to follow.
Ron
Alright! Sounds like you may be back in business. I still like the leaf blower and hammer and anvil idea though. LOL! Keep us posted and good luck.
Here are some tips for shooting in city limits, and keeping on the down-low.
1) Quiet target (avoid plastic bag targets since they can be quite loud, I prefer foam blocks or softer 3D like a Rhinehart). I have tested a bunch find the quietest targets. Believe it or not, the most silent target is a burlap sack filled with old clothes packed loosely. Problem is arrows drooping though.
2) Use a generous backstop (neighbors will see you are responble as well - may minimize their concern). A larger size net can help as well. I have seen arrows really bounce up on occasion; rare, but it does happen.
3) Shoot a quiet bow. I put 2 sets of silencers on my recurve (can only hear some noise as string comes off tab, then a light thud as hits target). Heavier arrows may help noise as well.
4) Avoid shooting when other will see. Most people have a routine (avoid lunch time if they come home for lunch, etc.). Likewise, weekends when kids are outside is a bad shooting time.
5) Limit number of arrows shot. I work off my back deck and find that shooting to simulate hunting (1 arrow every 30-45 min) has greatly improved accuracy. Also, you can do close-range work on form inside. If you bow is tuned, it will shoot with minimal wobble at 10-12 yds. A round 36-48" grass matt target should catch even the worst shot (almost) at close range.
6) Block the neighbor's view. Plant cover trees (Magnolia are very good) and stagger them. This also blocks the neighbor's view. If you are quiet, and they can't see you there will be little chance of them reporting you.
7) If neighbors come outside, be respectful and don't shoot.
8) Be very discreet. Don't look like a full-blown archery range in teh backyard. Ideas: keep a block, straw matt, or 3D target in a storage shed, and take out for practice (then put the target up). I also have plans for a 6 ft wide x 8" high arrow curtain that will totally block the neighbor's view across the 1acre thick woodlot. Now that Fall is here, the leaf cover will thin out. After each session, I will simply unhang the curtain.
I shoot into about an acre of thick woods (with home on other side). And I have 2 elderly neighbors on each side who don't come out much. I tried to pick the safest and most conceiled position for my target.
You can tell I put some thought into this. I just want to do what I can to avoid losing the pleasure of shooting a few, frequently in the backyard. Hope this helps someone else do the same.
There ya go, Ron. :thumbsup:
When I was lobbying and got bows and arrows specifically excluded from our new weapons ordinance I explained that our new chief is a bowhunting and well qualified to determine if a range is or is not safe under reckless endangerment language in another ordinance.
I also emphasized archery safety. If you Google "archery safety record" you can turn up reams of stats on how safe it is.
In my town as long as you dont shoot in parks or across trails/roads you are good, but if they look at state regs, then it states 50 ft from rd or neighbors without permission.
I have one neighbor that will eventually call the police. I will ask them to help me look it up in the village ordinance when they visit me.
When she does call, I will get even and start calling police on her for every little thing. I have been extremely patient so far. It doenst hurt that she is nuts and calls the police on Military planes making too much noise. Then got mad when they told her they couldn't tell the base to stop flying planes into and out of active duty.
There's one in every neighborhood.
Here in St. Louis this summer a lady was hit in the jaw by an arrow while eating breakfast. The guy shooting was over a 100 yds away and had no backstop to his target. She was not hurt real bad but her grandson was with her. I will never be able to shoot in my backyard again because it happened in my municipality.
rain, that must have been one heylluva bow to hit some old gal in the jaw.....
didn't see that article on News of the Weird, either.
Sorry to hear about your problem with the neighbor. The moral high-road for your neighbor would have been to talk with you about his concerns, unfortunately, he has an agenda with people like us. Based on your responses, we see that you're a reasonable person who won't retaliate. Technically your neighbor is right...unfortunately he chose a poor way to show it and that horse has left the barn. What if you met with your local councilman, police chief and/or mayor over a cup of coffee some morning to talk about this? Show them you're a reasonable person and find out if there isn't a way to change the ordinance. These guys were elected and/or paid to work for their constituents - not beat them down. Good luck.
Sorry to hear about your problem with the neighbor. The moral high-road for your neighbor would have been to talk with you about his concerns, unfortunately, he has an agenda with people like us. Based on your responses, we see that you're a reasonable person who won't retaliate. Technically your neighbor is right...unfortunately he chose a poor way to show it and that horse has left the barn. What if you met with your local councilman, police chief and/or mayor over a cup of coffee some morning to talk about this? Show them you're a reasonable person and find out if there isn't a way to change the ordinance. These guys were elected and/or paid to work for their constituents - not beat them down. Good luck.
He was shooting a compound at a little target with no backstop. He was shooting 45 minutes later when the police showed up. He was arrested on 2 felony charges. Have'nt heard anymore about the case since the arrest.
Apparently ne never went looking for that errant arrow...
Just read he pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge on probation for 2 years. 81 year old lady did'nt want stiffer sentencing. Story is under St. John Missouri archery accident.
What a drag. I can empathize... I love walking out to my back ard and shooting whenever I feel like it. But I feel pretty vulnerable too. I live in a very urban area of a large city. My set up is safe (and failry private) but I know it would only take one call and I, also, would be finished! Luckily my neighbors are fully supportive and have no problems with hunting.
The only acceptable backstop should be allowed in a community allowing shooting in yds would be one placed against the shooters house. Anyone who truly believes they will never have an arrow deflect or get away from them in any way should have no issue with this. Petition to make it a stipulation if you are seeking to have shooting a bow allowed in your community.
Well, I'm heartbroken. Just got a call from the PD. They have decided that the city is not willing to accept the liability of certifying my range. An arrow fired up in the air would land in someone else's yard. They agree it's walled highly all the way around, but if the city were to certify it as a safe range, they would be liable for any accident. We talked a bit and by reading between the lines, it was apparent that since there had already been a complaint, the complainant would be looking for any opportunity to sue me and the city. They suggested he could go so far as to plant an arrow in his yard and claim it came from me. I can get about 8 yards in my shop, so I may ask them to approve that. Or, I may just shoot in my basement and to hell with approval. I tried.
"there is a city ordnance against discharging any kind of weapon - BB gun, bow, slingshot, you name it"
actually nor true - police can fire their weapons, a CCW person or a self defense situation a person can fire a weapon, I bet shots are fired at football games, track meet's etc etc that would breach the ordinance, I bet there are archery tournaments etc that allow it ..... its NOT illegal, you just don't have the right permit or allowance to do it.
I HATE those rules BTW, glad I don't live inside a city limit
I thought I made that pretty plain. The city ordnance states that bows may not be shot in the city except at approved ranges. They have just as clearly stated they will not approve my range. Not a lot of maneuvering room there. There is a camp for special needs people on a hill across the lake from us. They have a range that is not enclosed in any way. I could ask to see their approval, but all that would do is close their range - not open mine. I think I'm going to be shooting indoors and hoping a certain neighbor falls off his roof.
I live Bonnerdale, Arkansas CAN SHOOT MY BOW ,300 WIN MAG ,44 MAG ,OFF MY PORCH NO PROBLEMS,sounds like you all have problems....most people do not believe in our lifestyles or choices...so you need to find a place where you can do your thing...and not be be bothered by nosey S.O.B.s I feel your pain,....Dave
See, it was the lawyers after all. It is all about risk and liability. The legal system, and measures groups take to protect themselves from this nonsense, is ruining our country! No gov official seems capable of using their judgement (if the system would even allow).
If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there, does it make a sound? If a guy shoots an arrow with traditional bow and nobody sees it or hears it, was the arrow shot? See my earlier strategy in this thread for keeping your archery practice off your neighbor's radar. If done responsibly, it is really none of their f'ing business anyway. If they can't see it and only hear a dull thump occassionally (shooting into a soft target) you will be ok. Just keep it on the down-low.
I like living in the sticks, hell, I just peed off my front porch while in my underwear, I aint no hilljack, LOL
As a last ditch resort, you could always "play" your neighbor. Invite him to a cookout or something, and befriend him. He may actually be a likable guy. A lot of times, people we don't know are that bad. A more direct approach is go go to his house and appologize. Tell you that you feel awful interrupting his sleep, and that you were not aware he was trying to get some sleep. Tell him you had been looking into quiet targets and you would be willing to re-arange your shooting schedule. I bet you could get him to even semi-approve of your shooting out of empathy. But first you have to appologize (I realize you would rather he fall off the roof, lol). If you could get his approval, or get him apprehensive about reporting again (maybe because he likes you) then you could shoot away. Worst case if he calls the cops again and you get a ticket.
Confrontation rarely gets what you want (I know you did not consider confronting him). The guy most likely was pissed and wanted to get some sleep. It may not have been personal or anti-hunting (like our kneejerk conclusion would indicate . . . "they are out to get me", lol). Just some ideas. I feel your pain. And hope this does not happen to me. I actually had a nice chat with my side yard neighbor today - elderly gentleman, and I offered to help him in any way if he or his wife ever need assitance. Would your report that person (who just offered to help you if you were in need), or some guy who never speaks (and he concludes you are a jerk)? I would not quit so easily. You can always shoot indoors though.
Is it just me, or does it seem that if you defer to the lawyers (ask if you can do something) it is always NO, because there is some risk of something happening. Just in general. This certification of a home archery range is a perfect example. My personal opinion is that the lawyer knows that if he/she ok's it, nothing good can come of it. If something happens though, then legal has egg on their face. So better just to say NO.
Lawyers always say no. That way they can't be sued. They are a big part of what is wrong with America today.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ragnarok Forge:
Lawyers always say no. That way they can't be sued. They are a big part of what is wrong with America today.
X2
I live in a community with lots of horses. I don't have one but my neighbors do on both sides. I sincerely doubt that they like seeing me and my buddies shooting arrows all the time. They (though) have a horse trailer that I can see from my yard and that is also against our ordinances here. I have let them know that I am aware of that but I want to be a "good neighbor" and not report it. So we have a little standoff here and it seems to be working as I have lived (and been shooting in my yard) for about seven years. Maybe you have something similar with your neighbor if you put your mind to it...loose dog, paint the wrong color etc.
What's your neighbors name and address? We can send him some hunting and bow info in the mail and maybe a few Gay newspapers...PR
QuoteOriginally posted by WDELongbow:
Confrontation rarely gets what you want (I know you did not consider confronting him). The guy most likely was pissed and wanted to get some sleep.... It may not have been personal or anti-hunting (like our kneejerk conclusion would indicate . . . "they are out to get me", lol). Just some ideas. I feel your pain. And hope this does not happen to me. I actually had a nice chat with my side yard neighbor today - elderly gentleman, and I offered to help him in any way if he or his wife ever need assitance. Would your report that person (who just offered to help you if you were in need), or some guy who never speaks (and he concludes you are a jerk)? I would not quit so easily. You can always shoot indoors though.
I don't agree, confrontation does get you what you want. The list of what confrontation has gotten each of us and this country is endless. It started with confronting the British crown. Be it the pilgrims (peacefull, they left to escape persecution and do their own thing) or the revolutionary war. Not so peacefull, but necessary to demonstrate the colonists resolve in getting the blood sucking British crowns hand out of their pockets.
And to date it got the antagonist (the neighbor) what it he he wants, control of Bladepeek's actions in his own yard for whatever his motives really are. It is safe to assume it is not sleep, as Bladepeek could run his lawn mower all day every day and there is NOTHING the neighbor can say or do about it.
What we are talking about here is a two way street called neighborly respect. You get, what you give. The neighbor could have very well chose to speak with Bladepeek 1/1...but he didn't. He hid behind the legal system, no neighborly respect. Bladespeek should consider meeting the neighbor with the same level of respect. Find a legal way to shoot in his yard, and run the lawn mower, weed wacker etc. all day all summer. That is how you get the attention and respect of the pencil pokers. (You remember the whimpy little kid in school who poked everybody with his pencil, knowing he'd never get his a** kicked because the gov't would come to his aid).
I've had problems with pencil pokers myself, aka trespassers and fence sitters. Confrontation...1/1 solved those problems. Confrontation does not mean "battle". Confrontation means facing the problem and being pro-active in a resolution. When being pro-active in a resolution does not provide the desired respectful neighborly result we have choices to make.
Tuck tail and run as the pencil pokers hope and pray that you will, or employ the less desireable but more productive version of confrontational. Make their life just as difficult by whatever legal means possible. It works, no more tresspassers or fence sitters.
Trad-Man, Please don't interpret my advise as "being weak". Just acknowledgement that it is pointless to confront him about it. He has the law on his side and will win every time. No way to argue your way out, intimidate him, etc. If this were a military or foreign relations issue, I am with you - the weak get pushed around. But it does no good to get in a pissing match with the neighbor. But if he realizes you are a good guy, and what your are doing is harmless, and most importantly that you respect his need to sleep (and acknowledg that the bag target is noisy as hell) he would likely be ok with him shooting as long as he did not make as much noise and/or shot when he was not trying to sleep. That is all you need. This is not a put your dukes up, go to war situation!
"Confrontation rarely gets what you want (I know you did not consider confronting him). The guy most likely was pissed and wanted to get some sleep. It may not have been personal or anti-hunting (like our kneejerk conclusion would indicate . . . "they are out to get me", lol). Just some ideas. I feel your pain. And hope this does not happen to me. I actually had a nice chat with my side yard neighbor today - elderly gentleman, and I offered to help him in any way if he or his wife ever need assitance. Would your report that person (who just offered to help you if you were in need), or some guy who never speaks (and he concludes you are a jerk)? I would not quit so easily. You can always shoot indoors though."
WDELongbow, 14 years ago when we moved in, we went to his house and tried to introduce ourselves the way you ALWAYS do in Germany when moving into a community. His wife said she wasn't interested in meeting us and to get off her property. I have shoveled the snow away from his mail box as it sits near ours even though his house is on a different private drive 50yds above us at the top of the hill we live on. Not a single neighbor wants anything to do with him. When I went up to his house to ask him why he felt it necessary to call the police instead of just asking me to stop he refused to answer the door and keeps a rifle out on the table just inside the door. This is not a shy, retiring man who just wants a little peace and quiet. This is an antisocial jerk who would not listen to reason. I will obtain approval to shoot indoors in my shop below his house (25 x 45 building) and continue hoping to see him descending in free-fall mode from his roof.
I understand Blade. Nothing to do about a real, honest to goodness A-hole, lol.
If you can't or are unwilling to move then do what you can to make them move to another residence. This guy is just a jerk. No reason to let them make your life a living hell. I'm so thankful for the good neighbors that I have around me.
Give me his telephone number, and I will have my wife call and ask for him. When his wife asks what the call is about, she will hang up. After a few calls like this, the wife will be very suspicious (evidence of the affair she suspected all along). Eventually they get a divorce, move due to not being able to afford mortgage payment. Then you shoot until your heart is content :)
If you go to Las Vegas, pick up some of the free porn advertisements and mail it to him, lol. That will make some interesting discussion as well at the dinner table.
This has gone way way past Traditional bowhunting.