Trad Gang

I know that in fishing rods carbon is more sensitive, but heaver rods are made from fiberglass for strength.

Arrows, from what I understand are made from carbon because it maintains straightness better.

So what is the benefit of carbon in bow limbs?

Is it truly worth the extra cost or just a marketing scheme.

This will be interesting.

I know that if I had it to do over I would not choose carbon again in a palmer that was a long time ago though.

I have a Zipper SXT with foam and carbon in the limbs. I love it, it is the smoothest limb I have ever shot. It is also dead in my hand and fast to boot. I hope this helps a little.

Here's some of what Jack Harrison says in his book "Traditional Bowyer, More Unnecessary Fun":

"Fiberglass is almost as strong in compression as it is in tension.  On the otherhand, carbon is not as strong as fiberglass is in compression.  In fact, carbon has so little compression strength, I avoid using it by itself in any bow limb on the belly side."

"I combined bamboo in the core with carbon on the back, an a blend of carbon and fiberglass on the belly.  This combination seemed to give me the best results compared to everything else."

"I know the "laminators" put carbon in all sorts of locations in the core of bow limbs, but in my opinion, this is a waste of material.  Carbon in the center of a bow limb is nothing but a spacer.  It does nothing to contribute to the elasticity or cast of my bow limbs, so I suspect the same applies to any other bow."

Jack has done more scientific bow testing than probably anybody out there making bows, and his bows fetch top dollar (even used ones if you can find one).  So to summarize Jack's findings, carbon on the back and combined with fiberglass on the belly is best, while carbon in the core of the limb is useless.

I've had a couple of high end carbon bows and didn't care for either of them...too stiff to suit my taste. However...foam on the other hand...if it's available I will have it on every bow I buy from now on. Best thing since homemade maple syrup..shoots sweet.

It depends somewhat on the individual; if you are young and strong and can endlessly pull back powerful limbs maybe not. On the other hand if you are an old fart like me who had to drop down 10# then absolutely yes.  I would not buy limbs today if they were not carbon back and belly.

My experience has been that foam seems to have more benefits than carbon....but you can't go wrong with either one.  To answer your question, I would say yes it is worth it.

A .020 carbon lamination will add almost 15 pounds to my R/D bow.  .015 wood only adds 5 pounds. This eliminates a lot of limb weight to achieve the same results.  This can only be a good thing.

I love carbon and foam in anything I shoot. Foam is a no brainer for any draw length, Smooth quiet about 3 fps in our limbs, no humidity problem. Carbon again gain about 4 fps in our limbs. With my short draw(26") I'll take all them help I can get. Long draws I would not pay the difference for carbon.

QuoteOriginally posted by Bowbldr:
I love carbon and foam in anything I shoot. Foam is a no brainer for any draw length, Smooth quiet about 3 fps in our limbs, no humidity problem. Carbon again gain about 4 fps in our limbs. With my short draw(26") I'll take all them help I can get. Long draws I would not pay the difference for carbon.

If that is not convincing I dont know what could be more so.

Not trying to start any Problems.. Question is : With the Chinese , N. koreans ,S.koreans , trying to BEAT each others BRAINS out.. In the sport of archery .. Can we not believe ; They have done their due digilence on the fastest limbs??  :dunno:

QuoteOriginally posted by Over&Under:
My experience has been that foam seems to have more benefits than carbon....but you can't go wrong with either one.  To answer your question, I would say yes it is worth it.

I agree with Jake. If a bowyer offers foam cores I would never order wood cores over foam. The benefits are night and day. If I had to choose foam or carbon I would no doubt go with the foam cores first. Carbon makes the limb lighter and thus a tad bit faster with less recoil as well. If you can afford it I would add the option. If not I wouldn't sell a kidney to get it.

imho, its overrated.  Had a few longbows with carbon in the limbs and felt no advantage over glass.  Actually I much prefer how the glass bows shot & handled over the carbon ones.

I'm with you Ferret. I have Palmers with carbon and some without. I have an old classic that has glass in the limbs and it is the same weight as the carbon and I swear it is faster and more stable than the carbon limbs.

I have had quite a few bows with foam/carbon and some with just foam and glass and some with bamboo or wood cores and carbon backed with glass bellies.

Most of them were excellant for me.Excellant speed and low handshock.Some have a higher pitched sound when shot.

I have had a few of these same bows in all glass versions that I actually preferred over the carbon or carbon/foam versions.Some not though.

It may depend on the bow and design of the bow as to which limb materials are gonna work the best and some things are subjective as to what individuals may like or not like in how a bow draws,feels,sounds and shoots overall.

I recently bought a recurve with a carbon back and later bought the same bow in all glass.Same length bow.I like the all glass bow in that model and so does the bowyer.He says the all glass bow is actually faster in his design.He does have a shooting machine and quality chronograph and is  precise  at measuring such things as bow performance.

The same bowyers longbow I prefer with the carbon back over the glass back and belly one.Its faster and shoots really crisp and feels great.Its not noisy or high pitched either and is stable.

That is interesting feedback on your Palmers ksbowman.  I had read something a while back in Traditional Bowhunter by Mike where he says that high speed film showed him that a recurve limb with double carbon would resist the twist motion caused by the "S" curve the string travels in when you shoot fingers.  Because of that he thought that the more stable limb would yield more accuracy.  Never shot so don't know myself.

Depends on the design of the bow and limbs.  JJ at Bob Lee bows has it in the limbs on his personal bow, and according to him from his testing, the carbon in the limbs did not lend itself to any improvement in the bow.  My personal experience has shown it to make the bow appreciably lighter and faster according to the two very similiar longbows that I own.

Glass is not even close to being as strong as carbon is in compression. Its exactly the opposite. Carbon barely compresses if it compresses at all. It is so strong it delaminates the core next to it by overpowering the core. The core is bending and the carbon is not compressing.

Carbon has to be used correctly. the belly carbon has to be lighter than the back carbon. It also helps to add a strip of carbon or glass in the center of the core to establish the neutral zone ./ This helps eliminate stresses that are generated by carbon on the back and belly.

I read Jack's book and found it extremely knowledgable , but I have come to some conclusions by my own usage of carbon that are slightly different.
I apologize that my way of saying this offended other Harrison fans of which I are one.

Another thing. There is no such thing as just carbon. There are dozens of grades, layups, ect. It takes time to learn what to use and where and what the results are when you use certain types compared to others.

You can use uni carbon for gains in speed, 45 degree and 90 degree for added stability,. or you can very successfully use a combination of both laid up together or in different placements in the limb to gain certain things.

I am using a layup at this time that makes a limb like a crowbar torsionally but also has layers of unicarbon for speed. This has a 45 degree layer on the top layer for added torsion stability. That goes directly on the back. Next to the belly glass and veneer is a thin layer of carbon that is 90 degree unicarbon 90 degree. This layer adds so much stability to the limb that it is unbelieveable. These layers of carbon take the place of over twice as much glass. Add yew or foam core lams and you end up with a limb that is as light as a feather. Super smooth to pull, extremely fast if not only because of the light weight at same poundage and so dead in the hand at the shot it is unbelieveable until you shoot one.

Carbon and foam are worth it , or carbon and yew or other light smooth cores. but only if used knowledgeably. There is way more to the benefits than just speed alone.

God bless you all, Steve
I have had good successs with double carbon especially in longbows. I am presently experimenting with it in recurves and have not completely formulated my stack layup in a curve yet.

I agree with most of the things said on this subjest for the positive points on carbon.I do want to add though that bow limb design plays a large roll in the overall ballance of the use of carbon.The feel and performance of a limb has many factors.Limb length,wedge length overall bow lenght.I use .020 carbon in "my limb design" after alot of personal research. Smooth, hand shock free,(in a recurve)and ads 6-8 fps in my limbs.All the reason i need.I think my customers will agree.  :)

Interesting topic, and good to see some feedback from outstanding bowyers.

The one thing I have noticed, is ask your bowyer these guys have all the tools knowledge and know what is a good set up for your requirements.

Obviously the bowyer sponsors on this site are top shelf....

 :notworthy:    :notworthy:

i have every kinda limb made i think,for hunting and the shots made at close range,i personaly dont care what my limbs are..but for my 3d rig i shoot carbon foam and anyone who has to shoot longer distances will see a difference quickly....

I picked up a new palmer with carbon in the limbs at denton hill and they work better than my older palmer with carbon. Mike says he finally found a supplier that has woven carbon and he loves the results he is getting with his limbs. The bow is very stable and fast for 45lbs.

I'll have to agree with Steve (Sixby) on this one.  There so many different aspects that come into play when using carbon...mainly the type of carbon used, where it is placed in the limb, and the limb design it is being used in.  
I can typically gain about 4-5fps in my limbs using .020" carbon as close to the back of the limb as possible.  I also back it with at least .025" glass and grind the veneer(if any)down to around .015".  
As far as the carbon on the belly, it just doesn't work with my limb design.  To much compression force placed on the core will lead to a short limb life.  This is just what I have found in my designs, lots of other guys have been using it successfully on the belly side with no issues.
In short, it is a good thing to have if you're shooting lighter poundage and are looking to gain every little bit of performance you can.
I'm typically only a whitetail hunter and shoot mid 50#'s and I use carbon in my personal bows...that 5 fps might come in handy if a not so perfect shot is made!  
Of course, my shots are always right on the money so it shouldn't be an issue...  :rolleyes:

JARED , THE INCREASED PERFORMANCE HELPS ME SHOOT OVER THERE BACK.BUT YOUR RIGHT, MY ARROWS GET AWESOME PENETRATION IN TREES.

I love how smooth the carbon core makes my tomahawk.

I was testing some different carbon than what we have been using.... It was 4.2 FPS faster. Smoother and faster but not as stable as what we are using. At this point I will be shooting it. And now to come up with a way to stabilize it more with out losing and performance.

I have had high end longbows (same model) with carbon/foam and with glass/wood.  I really didn't notice much difference performance wise (not a chrono guy) and I can't explain why but I prefer the feel of the glass/wood limbs.  So I would say you are going to have to try it to see what you prefer.

Raminshooter/ Mint, My single carbons on the Palmer are some of the first Mike made so maybe that is why my classics shoot better to me. Don't get me wrong I like all my Palmers and believe they are a great shooting bow. But my old classic fiberglass laminate seems to shoot better and just as fast, if not faster than the carbons. I have not shot them thru a chrono though.

For carbon to accomplish much on a recurve it has to be right on the back.
Carbon really shines in a D and r though with foam cores.
I have some premium yew that I am building a special bow with right now that I like as well a foam core though.

God bless you all, Steve

The use of carbon is pretty new-certainly within the past 10 years or so. Early on bowyers were getting no positive results whatever; in fact many of the early limbs did not perform as well as glass-they became unglued-and even failed. Bowyers now know a lot more about which designs, what glues, where and how to use the stuff and more recently the results are improving and will even more as more is discovered. If it costs extra, to me it is well worth it, and will only get better.

I worked for a high end fishing rod company over ten years ago that was pushing the envelope with rod blank design.  We hired a guy with a composite materials engineering degree and I believe he was the first in the industry.  I'm a business guy so what I learned on the subject was from him.  He has transformed a few sporting goods products with his knowledge of composite materials.  I think carbon fiber softball bats were his next gig.  At any rate, I don't have any experience with carbon in bow limbs but my guess is that it is somewhat of a situation as Sixby describes.  There are many variables that play into design and performance when it comes to this stuff and most bowyers aren't in a position due to knowledge, time, money etc etc to efficiently leverage carbon's qualities....and a certain part of me hopes they never do.

What kind of foam is used in the limbs.  Where do you get it?  Anybody got a cross section pic of a limb with foam in it?

The foam that is used is called syntatic foam. It is the variety that is used in snowboards ect. I don't buy in a large enough quantity to order factory direct but I buy from Dale Stahl.
God bless you all, steve

I don't have much to add here that hasn't been said.

i think it's worth it to some guys, and not so for others. it really adds performance levels to the long bows, and recurve as well depending on the type of carbon used and where it's placed in the limbs.....the thing it does for recurve bows that makes it a good choice for target shooters is adds serious torsional stability.

in regards to Harrison's statement about carbon having less compression strength than glass... Well this is actually an incorrect statement, it's just the opposite. but.... the results he described in his book is right on the money.. The stuff is so strong, It doesn't compress at all... it literally shears the core it's glued to if the core isn't stout material.

they have some great carbon lay ups available, like Steve was describing. it's a "Carbon Matrix" that seems to be the ticket. a mixture of unidirectional and Bias weave.... they even have recipes with E-glass laid up with the composite.

The geometry of the limb has a whole lot to do with it too.... some designs work well, and others don't.


Hey Jared, Try laying one up putting your belly carbon over uni-weft or .020 glass. I've had excellent luck doing that on my long bows...

Beware though... the poundage really jumps up putting the carbon on the outside of the limb, vs under the glass...a lot more than you would think too.

Thanks Sixby    Is the foam from  Dale sold just like wood lamination's?   If so how do you figure what you need in thickness like the Bingham chart which shows the combination of lamination's to get to a certain poundage.  Does Bingham sell it

Binghams does not sell it. I figure it just like any other core for thickness.
'when you start adding and changeing carbons though all the equasions go out the door. Its expensive. I just built a set of limbs with some new carbon that jumped the poundage 30 lbs over what my other carbon was doing with the same stack. You just set those aside for the next guy that wants an elephant bow and build another set of limbs. LOL
I would imagine that Dale sells ground laminations. I buy mine heavy and grind all my own laminations.
God bless you all, Steve

I have somewhat mixed feelings on the use of carbon in longbows and recurves. As others have said it isn't a magical ingredient that will make every bow better.

In longbows I tend to prefer carbon on the back. It does tend to boost the speed 3-4 fps over a similar glass design and because a longbow tends to have a thicker limb core there generally isn't a negative effect on lateral limb stability. That said, some heavily reflexed limbs lose some vertical stability with carbon. Normally carbon allows a bowyer to use less core material and have a thinner limb. Lots of reflex and thin cores sometimes makes for a whippy tip that is very sucseptible vertical variance.

Recurves can benefit but I really feel it depends on the type of carbon used. I've owned piles of ILF limbs from glass/wood all the way up to high-end carbon/foam limbs. As some of the bowyers have noted there are straight uni-carbon laminates to bias-ply type carbon available. In my experience the uni-carbon may bump speed a little in a recurve but doesn't improve lateral or vertical stability one bit. The reality is in some limbs it makes them worse than glass limbs. Now, if you add in some of the 45 degree biased carbon it can improve the lateral stability to a point. Some of the limbs I've shot with those laminates are incredibly stiff.

In the end I think it really comes down to the design and how the carbon affects the limb design. If a bowyer really does the testing and homework than you can get some good results but if he's just slapping carbon in it I'd rather drop the $50-100 bucks on something else.

In the bows I own I have two carbon backed longbows that shoot fantastic. My recurve is not carbon backed although I shot the exact same model with carbon. The glass limb was more stable, quieter and faster. In fact, that glass limb is easily as stiff and stable as any of the high-end biased carbon ILF limbs I've owned. Like I said, it comes down to how the carbon acts in the bowyers design.

a few months before his death i had a phone conversation with earl hoyt and our chat drifted to limb lamination materials.  he felt that carbon as a limb material was more environmentally stable than fiberglass for target bows (olympic recurves) but it didn't matter much if at all for hunting stick bows.  i've had longbows with limbs of carbon and bamboo laminations, and the same model longbow, with the same length/weight spex, but with glass and bamboo laminations.  i'm not just good enuf to tell the shooting difference 'tween the two.  i think that for the most part, we think too much about bows and not enuf about arrows and shooting form.   :)

:thumbsup:  Right On Rob....

I thought I was the only one who did tree penetration testing. You know single bevel-vs-double bevel, tanto tip ect...

Carbon is not simply carbon.  As others have said there are many types of carbon that vary.  Carbon is a very different animal than fiberglass and requires that a bowyer start with a clean slate when designing a bow that makes use of carbon.  

I've had so many different types of carbon laid up for me over the past decade by a variety of companies that one carbon company even calls my favorite "crazy John's carbon".

From a bowyer's perspective carbon absolutely positively makes a bow perform better IF it is used properly.  

I haven't read Harrison's book but one thing attributed to him earlier is spot on - putting carbon in the middle of a limb (or even under a veneer) is a waste.  It does nothing from a quantitative standpoint to improve performance.  It simply becomes a heavy lam in the middle of the bow.

I'm a total nerd about testing each and every bow design to the 'nth" degree and have been playing with carbon now for 10 years.  I feel comfortable about my conclusions because they're based on quantitative testing where only one thing is changed at a time in the development of a new bow design.  That's the only way to know for sure what the effect of that one change is.  

Trying to use carbon in a design developed originally for glass is not going to yield good results.  And it's quite possible that some folks have simply added carbon to an existing design in order to use the word "carbon" as a marketing tool.  In such a case I would not be surprised at all if the misuse of carbon in that type of bow would lead people who buy it to conclude that carbon adds little if anything to a bow's performance.

Anyway, there is zero question about whether or not carbon improves the performance of a bow.  If used properly in a bow designed to be made with carbon it absolutely positively improves performance.

Rob is right about thinking too much about the bow and not enough about the arrow and BH setup, Also about tuning you setup to get the most for what you have. Carbon is not going to make you a better hunter or a better shot. If you can't hit a spot speed will not help and penetration is a moot point. Once you have confidence in your hunting, Tuning and have shot enough animals that you don't have to ask questions about penetration or am I shooting the right arrow setup... Things that you know are right and don't need to Someone else s blessing that you are right. At that point you will know if carbon and or foam is right for you...... Time will tell, I know at my age it is right for me I need the extra FPS and smoothness.
John I agree 100%

I just ran some number on a different Carbon, I'm planning on using same poundage same arrow same draw Recurve,44.5# @ 26" 510 grain arrow. Average over 5 shot though shooting machine. one was 169.5  other was 165.3. That's 2 different Carbons. So just because you have carbon in your limbs can mean different things. The faster carbon in this case was a little smoother on the draw also.

I really like carbon.I shoot low weight bows 40-43# and it really improves the energy,=,s speed.They are the smoothest ,bows I have found.My 40# bow has the speed of my 46# non carbon.Also no stacking , just a pleasure to shoot with carbon.My friends say they feel great.I shoot an ACS, Legends bow, Tomahawk ss,

I love hearing from John and Bob and really all who have contributed to the thread. I also agree with what Rob said.
Here are a couple of thoughts as I read this.
One. I sincerely wish and work toward producing the best performing bow I can build. I do this not to just have a bow that is a couple of feet faster but so that all archers can have a bow that will be the best bow that they can own and will perform the best for them. there are tons of guys that do not have the bodies of Atlas , have shorter draws ect that greatly benefit form any added performance they can have.

Carbon will do this in fact. But only when used properly.

I loved what John said about meticulously testing and therefor knowing what it actually does. This is , as I have already stated what seperates someone that just tosses a stick of carbon somewhere in a limb and Voila!!! now has a carbon bow that will outperform all other bows and shoot arrows over the moon.

John said carbon is a waste when under veneers. I agree to a point and the point is this. There are veneers and then there are veneers.

When you put carbon under veneers and clear glass you cannot use the average .030 veneer. I carefully grind the veneer to .010 and use .020 glass, then the carbon.  This places the carbon .030 fr0m the back of the bow and allows the carbon to work. Granted it does not work to the degree that it works when directly on the back of the bow but it does add noticibly to the performance of the bow.

Depending on which limb design I am doing this with it will add from 3 to 5 fps to the average speed against the glass bow.

I also agree with what John said about having to start from scratch when designing a bow limb for carbon. For instance one reason I redesigned my Talon 1 limb to the Talon 11 limb was that I planned to eventually use carbon on the limb and carbon would be very difficult , if not impossible to use on the Talon 1 due to the sharp degree of recurve in the limb. With carbon one of the very first things that you learn is to avoid curves as on the compression side it overstresses the core.

Therefore Having a static tip recurve with limited tip bend really helps when thinking carbon friendly. I definately would , at least in theory, advise to not use carbon in a working recurve , on the belly side. I did build one and it is about 8 years old and still shooting but I feel blessed in that point and its still not something I would do again or reccomend.

All this said, by far my best results are when using carbon directly on the back.

I will not use carbon directly on the belly as I have had problems with that . I will use it under light glass on the belly or as bro Kirk described over light glass on the belly.

What I have noticed is when I use biased carbon on the belly there is a tremendous jump in stability and in poundage.

Whether this will eventually lead to a bow limb that is completely superior to all other limbs I have tested is to be seen. Still working on that one. I do know we all have a lot to learn and I do not in anyway believe its all been done yet.

I am building a Christmas bow for Bro. Kirk that is going to tell me some things. That is if it comes out right. LOL. If not then back to the drawing board.

Ain't life grand!!!!

God bless you all and Jesus loves you, Steve

I agree with Rob, i had the same conversation with Earl Hoyt and he reiterated the same things he told Rob.His exact words were: "carbon and foam limbs work well on Olympic Recurves, because it improves consistency. In other words if you are shooting in Arizona at 80 meters one day and in Florida a few days later the humidity would affect the performance of the same Bow adversely, when you are shooting a 41# recurve at 80 meters consistent performance is important. On a 60# recurve it makes little difference at any yardage". I love my recurves just the way they are! The biggest and most economical improvement in the last 15 years is Fastflite.

QuoteOriginally posted by Bowbldr:
I just ran some number on a different Carbon, I'm planning on using same poundage same arrow same draw Recurve,44.5# @ 26" 510 grain arrow. Average over 5 shot though shooting machine. one was 169.5  other was 165.3. That's 2 different Carbons. So just because you have carbon in your limbs can mean different things. The faster carbon in this case was a little smoother on the draw also.

This is interesting in that I have never thought about different carbon lams having that much varieance.  I have talked in length with several bowyers over the years about placment in the stack and things like that.  I have shot some zipper carbon and some Morrison Carbon and they were awesome. I never thought about that not being the same carbon that is in my palmer.

ooooooooh i love Christmas bows!    :goldtooth:  

The one thing that I've really noticed using carbon under veneers, and Sixby and i have been sharing our test results on this too... Is that using very thin veneers also allows more distance between the belly carbon and the back carbon in you limb thickness that bowyer's refer to as "The Stack". using thinner carbon with more separation between the two pieces in the core adds serious limb stability to a recurve limb..... once you take this concept to the next level, you can narrow up the limbs considerably with rock solid torsional stability and this in itself jumps the performance of the bow way up. Some of these bias weave 45/45 lay ups are like putting ultra light rebar in a limb.... but the design is critical.


what a great thread this turned out to be....   :)

I like the sound of using carbon & foam so long as the aesthetics & reliability of the bow are not affected.I have never shot a bow with either so I find this thread very interesting as I am keen to learn more.What would the best layup be for a take down recurve,etc types of carbon,placement types of foam? I would like to still have clear glass & beautiful timber veneers visible as one of the important things to me is the beauty of traditional bows.

I like the sound of using carbon & foam so long as the aesthetics & reliability of the bow are not affected.I have never shot a bow with either so I find this thread very interesting as I am keen to learn more.What would the best layup be for a take down recurve,etc types of carbon,placement types of foam? I would like to still have clear glass & beautiful timber veneers visible as one of the important things to me is the beauty of traditional bows.

Lyonel, Taking your likes into consideration I would suggest a glass bow with a light weight core. foam or yew . CArbon on the back only and glass with a fancy veneer on the belly side of the limb. This makes a very high performance bow with a very classy look.

God bless you, Steve

Thanks Steve,I guess clear glass & veneers on the back of the limb as well won't work to well.

Lyonell, It works as long as the glass and the veneer is extremely thin. I have built a lot of bows like that and they are beautiful and they are very fast. Just not as fast as using straight carbon on the back is.
However I am in agreement with you that beauty is a great part of the bow and is very important. Sn akeskin on the carbon is a great way to go because it is so thin it does not keep the carbon from performing.

God bless you, Steve

I just can't believe you would put a filthy old snake skin over perfectly good carbon...   :dunno:  


you know how fond of snakes i am bro...   :o

Sixby , i would have to disagree with the snake skin.A know alot of people like the look me included.In my recurve the loss in fps was 6fps.The snake skin is thin but adhesive and extra finish slows down the response of the limb.I have also tested the tape type skins and found no performance loss.I ran this test early this year and this is what I found in my bow design.I honestly think most will find similar results.

You are adding a little tite bond and some finish. Buttttttttttt. thats a lot lighter than glass and veneer and that has to be finished too. A thin layer of tight bond and a snakeskin can't add very much weight. That is unless you used Barges. That would.
Best performans is definately straight carbon on the back. I certainly agree with that. Just giving the options.

God bless you all, Steve

Here is my only experience with carbon. I have a Sarrels Blueridge longbow that I love. It is my everyday go-to bow. I wanted a back-up bow so I ordered another one just like the one I had with black glass limbs. Mr. Sarrels is a very good friend of mineso when I went to pick up my new back-upo bow he hands it to me and says "Look what i did! I put carbon in the belly and back for you. I was actually a little disappointed at the time because I was after something that was gonna be the same as what I already had. Not to worry, as I began to shoot it I could not see any difference. I put it through the chronograph and both bows; one with carbon and one without; shot exactly the same speeds. So I ended up with just what I wanted. And no, I will not ever order and pay extra to have carbon in the limbs of a bow after seeing this comparison.

Bisch

Sixby,I did use barges ,I should have mentioned it by name.There might be better ways to do it,I just wasn't interested in working with it.I may revisit the snake skin thing again some day.

I'm so smart my head hurts LOL . When I first heard of people using Barges I though oh no that is going to be too heavy. . Tite Bond 11 or 111 is the stuff. It drys to almost nothing when the water gets out of it. Sticks great too.
God bless you, Steve

i thought about it for awhile when ordering my custom.  after much thought i decided 3-4 fps isnt worth the extra cash.  I got yew and i dont know how the bow could draw any smoother.

Sixby,if I ever do the snake thing again ill give that a try.thanks

Yew is just flat out awsome. I built a bow with yew and double carbon today and it is the sweetest bow I have pulled since the last yew and double carbon . LOL

Mike when you get ready give me a yell.

God bless you all, Steve