Am I the only one out there who is disappointed with 3rivers decision to start carrying sights. I have done business with 3rivers for a while and will continue to. My only problem is now we'll probably see some guy at a bow shoot who says he shoots traditional but has sights on his bow.
They haven't featured them in the last two mailed catalogs.
I put a snarky question on their website in the sights section and they never did acknowledge it. Oh well.
I remember a LOT of folks hunted with recurves and one, two or three pins in the 70's. I guess that's old enough to be a tradition (two generations past now).
Guys who shoot 500 yard accurate muzzleloaders with plastic saboted conical bullets, synthetic stocks & powder, enclosed 209 shotgun primers and 10X scopes think they are regular Dan'l Boones. It's a primative weapon, after all.
You can only hold what you feel as traditional up in the mirror and please yourself. :thumbsup: I guess we'd all be shooting yew or lemonwood English longbows or self-wood American flatbows with wood arrows if we were true to tradition.
I can see where they are coming from.
In a down economy you have to make certain business changes in order to survive.
Problems generally only arise when a company grows too much, too fast, and begins to neglect their customers.
In my experience, 3 Rivers has always been extremely attentive to the customers.
I doubt that the addition of some 'modern' items will change that business model of excellent customer service.
I am not sure your post started of with bow hunting as the subject.
I don't have a problem with sites. Some hunters need them that don't use them. There is nothing about sites that I find to be non-trad. A lot of those old bows have filled holes for a reason. Some people gap shoot of the arrow point so that is kind of like single pin site.
I think the sights that they are carrying are geared more for the dalaa style bows not compounds. If a person feels that they are more accurate with sights I say go for it. I personally would feel sights to be a hinderance but don't fault the guy who wants or needs them to be accurate. In the end of the day if that is what allows a person to hunt and be proficient who are we to say they shouldn't use sights. I think this is another case of "traditional" snobbery.
I know a guy who shoots a 3pc takedown recurve with a single sight pin. He tried for years without and missed several animals and even wounded a couple. He finally came to the realization that he needed the sight for a reference. He shoots at all ranges with that same single pin but it has made him a much better hunter.
1937-First use of bow-sights in archery competition.
from
History Of Archery By Tom Brissee
I don't have a problem with it..thought about trying some of those myself.
QuoteOriginally posted by Thebear_78:
I think the sights that they are carrying are geared more for the dalaa style bows not compounds. If a person feels that they are more accurate with sights I say go for it. I personally would feel sights to be a hinderance but don't fault the guy who wants or needs them to be accurate. In the end of the day if that is what allows a person to hunt and be proficient who are we to say they shouldn't use sights. I think this is another case of "traditional" snobbery.
agree 100%
I rather see a person using sights and hitting what he's aiming at, than another shooting a bare bow and not being able to hit the side of a bus.
I have been using sights on and off for years on my curves ... my first recurve had sights ... 30 years ago .....
The same complaint could be used for fibreglass bows , carbon arrows , treestands etc
"Traditional " archery and bowhunting IMHO is a state of mind , not an equipment choice .
I have a Ben Pearson bow from the 1950s with sights on it. Well, it's from a subsidiary company of theirs, but the sight was very crude.
Back in the mid 1900s the bow of the day WAS a traditional bow. And with that they had sights as well.
It's a personal choice.
I do like the instinctive shooting without sights, but some may like the convenience and reassurance of a pin. It's up to them.
Sites where part of archery before compounds and way before the use of computors to define traditional. There are several threads right now on diffent trad sites listing misses and treating them in a light hearted, joking manor. Maybe more would be served to look into the use of sites on there bows
i doubt there would be as many "forgot to pick a spot" threads.
Well call me non traditional.
We were having this discussion in 1960, good to see y'all carrying on the TRADITION... :D
tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire...
some guys are gonna have their own take :campfire:
Dude, just get out and hunt! Who cares whether people use sights on their bows or not. People have different reasons for using things and it shouldn't bother you......
I don't use sights, but if I had to I would, and I
think all of these answers were spot on. :knothead:
I have seen pictures of Fred Bear Holding a bow with a one pin Sight. 3 rivers should be commended for providing an outlet for hard to find traditional gear. I cant even buy a string for my recurve where I live
i see no big deal about using simple sights on trad bows, has been happening for many decades if not centuries or millenniums. heck, just putting a mark on the limb belly, or taping on a match stick is a sight. we used to make "bow sights" from a narrow length of cork board double stick taped to the top limb belly, with a hat pin stuck in as the sighting device/reference.
it's the same as with release aids: non-mechanical ones have been in use for millenniums.
to each their own. i'd draw the line with sight scopes and mechanical trigger releases, though. :)
I don't have a problem with sights. I have I have an SRF on my recurve that I'm hunting with this year.
Having shot wheel bows for close to 30 years with sights, it's probably more of a psychological thing for me. My brain expects it as part of my sight picture.
For the record I have tried to shoot shoot instinctively, using gap, etc, but I'm just not as confident shooting that way.
IMHO people should be judged by the quality of their being, not by the equipment they use.
James..........
Each club has rules governing what can be used in the traditional class. 3 rivers is a for profit company and sells what sells. They sell lots of stuff I don't need and I don't buy it. I let them paddle their boat and I do the same.
obviously, what archery tackle each of us uses is our own business.
i think 3rivers is more than just looking at their profit margins and i do believe their hearts are well within the boundaries of "traditional archery" - which DOES encompass the use of sights and release aids, which ARE both part of traditional archery whether or not any of us likes it or not.
Fact of the matter is, in 50's and 60's, you were the odd man out in many parts of the country if you DIDN'T use a sight.
Yes they sell them and yes some people use them. to each his own.
I knew I would see some threads on this sooner or later.
Picking up sights was not a cut and dry decision for all of us here at 3Rivers Archery. For many of the reasons established here already. The biggest factor was that for the past Year and a Half (at least) the #1 failed search on 3RiversArchery.com was "sights for recurve bow" or something similar. Now it is not profit driven, or some quick money fix that we are looking for.
3Rivers Archery is offering sights because it is proven that many of our customers are looking for sights. We have available several levels of sights, from under $10 to over $100, to see what people are looking for. Time will tell.
I do not use a sight and have no plans too. That does not mean others can not use them. That is their choice. Not everyone using a trad bow is hunter also. Many target archers use and enjoy sights.
I know not everyone will agree with 3Rivers Archery picking up sights, but then we will have those that do want them. They are not going to showered into every page and I doubt we will run ads with them, but with our ever growing selection of items at 3Rivers Archery always know we will try new items if we believe their is a demand for it to supply everything our customers are looking for.
Johnathan Karch
3Rivers Archery
Johnathan@3RiversArchery.com
I buy a lot of my archery supplies from the local compound shop. I have to order most of them. The owner is an ex Marine and a close friend. I don't care what else they sell he sells me what I need. I cannot fathom why 3 Rivers would not sell what their customers want. That is simply bad business. I have ordered from 3 Rivers and have always had great service. That is what matters to me.
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 609
Icon 1 posted October 24, 2011 06:55 AM Profile for Thebear_78 Email Thebear_78 Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote i doubt there would be as many "forgot to pick a spot" threads.
There be "used the wrong pin" excuses!! :) )
Rufus !
:clapper: :biglaugh:
Jack Howard was a great proponent of sights on bows. Its traditional . Not your cup of te nor mine but its traditional. !!!!
QuoteOriginally posted by 3R Shooter:
The biggest factor was that for the past Year and a Half (at least) the #1 failed search on 3RiversArchery.com was "sights for recurve bow" or something similar.
If the biggest failed search was for mechanical broadheads, would you start to carry those? :laughing: :dunno:
QuoteOriginally posted by scout38:
Dude, just get out and hunt! Who cares whether people use sights on their bows or not. People have different reasons for using things and it shouldn't bother you......
X2 :thumbsup: :clapper:
makes no difference to me. 3rivers has the products that i want/need and they get it to my door FREAKY FAST!!!
There were sights on bows before there where wheels on bows. Don't see a problem.
I did not mean for this thread to offend anyone or degrade people who shoot sights. I am just suprised to see Dale start to carry sights as I know they have been around a long time but shooting a traditional bow to me means shooting without sights just my personal choice.
QuoteOriginally posted by JamesKerr:
I did not mean for this thread to offend anyone or degrade people who shoot sights. I am just suprised to see Dale start to carry sights as I know they have been around a long time but shooting a traditional bow to me means shooting without sights just my personal choice.
I hear ya....My personal choice is a shooting glove, but don't have a problem with them selling tabs. :D
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:
There were sights on bows before there where wheels on bows. Don't see a problem.
X2
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:
There were sights on bows before there where wheels on bows. Don't see a problem.
Right on! what ever works for you, don't succumb to peer pressure and what's supposed to be "Tradtional" It's all about hitting the animal in the right spot and a humane kill. If it takes sights for you to do that, will then do it.
QuoteOriginally posted by JamesKerr:
.........My only problem is now we'll probably see some guy at a bow shoot who says he shoots traditional but has sights on his bow.........and "I did not mean for this thread to offend anyone or degrade people who shoot sights".....
:biglaugh: :biglaugh:
Yeah.......whatever you say dude!
I'm probably going to get kicked off of tradgang but so be it. This kinda of thread is irresponsible and stupid. Most guys I see shouldn't even be shooting a recurve or longbow. I statrted back in the 60's and this thread comes accross as elistist.
3 Rivers shipping is freakishly fast and they really help guys like us with no good shop around. So big :thumbsup: to 3Rivers.
Most could care less if 3Rivers "diversifies" into other areas, as long as they serve their stickbow customers well.
Bear Archery has been making compounds since the late 70's. ;)
QuoteOriginally posted by Archer Fanatic:
I'm probably going to get kicked off of tradgang but so be it. This kinda of thread is irresponsible and stupid. Most guys I see shouldn't even be shooting a recurve or longbow. I statrted back in the 60's and this thread comes accross as elistist.
I don't see where you get that from, the guy asked a legit question and got some legit answers, you are out of left field with your response.
QuoteOriginally posted by Archer Fanatic:
I'm probably going to get kicked off of tradgang but so be it. This kinda of thread is irresponsible and stupid. Most guys I see shouldn't even be shooting a recurve or longbow. I statrted back in the 60's and this thread comes accross as elistist.
you haven't a clue as to what yer saying, and your disrespectful attitude has made your wish reality - POOF! - now you're gone.
feel better? i sure hope it was worth it for ya.
Once a little older guy came into the shop I was helping at and purchased a PSE coyote. He brought it back a couple days later and had one of those"Rainbow" sights from way,way past days (yes, I remember those days) and had me mount it along with an elevated rest. The part I started having problems with was when he asked me to tie him a shooters loop on, and put a peep sight with aligning rubber in the string, yes, he was going to use a release. Poor man struggled for days with horrendous misses at 10 yds. I finally got him to try some 40lb. limbs instead of the 55 he had, helped a little but not much.
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
QuoteOriginally posted by Archer Fanatic:
I'm probably going to get kicked off of tradgang but so be it. This kinda of thread is irresponsible and stupid. Most guys I see shouldn't even be shooting a recurve or longbow. I statrted back in the 60's and this thread comes accross as elistist.
you haven't a clue as to what yer saying, and your disrespectful attitude has made your wish reality - POOF! - now you're gone.
Rob he didnt even get a chance to rub your lamp...LOL
I have seen guys with sights and range indicators on many bows, its all personal choice. And 3rivers is on the ball when it comes to shipping fast.
feel better? i sure hope it was worth it for ya. [/b]
Someone hurry up and call the traditional archery police!!!! We don't want our kids to see a sighting device and think such a thing should be placed on a recurve or long bow. The horror!!!!!
I do not have a problem with people who shoot with sights. As a matter of fact some of my best friends shoot compounds. To those of you who shoot sights more power to you.
to rehash what really shouldn't hafta be rehashed, bow sights and release aids have both been in "traditional archery" use for centuries if not millenniums.
i think summa you young'uns would think differently if you'd been into archery pre-wheels, at least around the 50's and 60's.
seriously, can we move on, please?
What's the beef?
QuoteOriginally posted by Cyclic-Rivers:
What's the beef?
beats me ....
There appear to be a TON of vintage bows sold on a certain BIG auction site, with vintage sights on them, still in place from decades ago. And as already mentioned previously, as the famous bowyer, writer, and noted big game hunter Jack Howard used and suggested sights on his recurves, I see NO issue with 3-Rivers selling sights. I have old archery mags from the 50's and 60's (Pre-wheels era), and there were countless sights and gadgets available. 3-Rivers is a damn good company, and I wouldn't care what they sold, I'll still buy from them when I need something, even if I don't use sights. Live and let live.
I was surprised to see them the other day. But each to there own, ya know.
Don't matter one bit to me whether or not 3R sells sights or whether or not you use them.
However...
I hope the discussions over what is and what isn't traditional never stop. If they do, that'll mean we've all just decided to accept everything, and nothing will be traditional.
when i look at the age of guys not sure about, or against bow sights, they were not around in the pre-compound 50's and 60's and i think therein may lie the issue. *some* of these younger folks don't know about the earlier years of "traditional" bowhunting in the usa, when there were only recurves and longbows. they have no clear base of understanding what went on in that era. they just need to come up to speed, perhaps, if they want to get enlightened about the not too distant past of trad archery. it's all good, as we all learn.
3 Rivers provides a great service. The more archery equipment they carry, the more you have to choose from. It's up to you to use what you want to. Well done 3 RIVERS :thumbsup: Get in more sights,and MORE of everything else.
Absolutely no reason for Dale to be apologizing for anything they sell. As long as he carries the equipment we need, what difference does it make to any of "us" what he sells? 3Rivers does have a brand image to maintain and with that, I doubt we'll see them stocking crossguns or Uzi's with night vision lazer sights and ATV mounts anytime soon ;-)
You are correct Rob. I just don't think Traditional archery today can be defined by what was modern archery of yesterday. Modern archery of yesterday, and an acceptance of everything, led to the compound and the near demise of what we now call Traditional Archery. Traditional today is more than just the equipment and there should remain some reminders from time to time that it's still about investing in yourself.
Heck I hunt with carbon arrows and I said I never would. But... I also agree completely with Robertson and Thomas and their opinions on wood! I like to be reminded I'm cheating myself!!
YMMV!! ;)
I started with a bow sight, but found for me it complicated things. I then needed to know the distance in order to select the correct pin, which added a rangefinder. I found out I did better without it. As for 3 rivers selling them , it doesn't offend me. Enjoyed reading the various comments.
So glad I dont have sights to worry about.....dont plan on going back anytime....thus my "Handle"!
3 Rivers carries them....so what. I'll still buy from them.
IF the hunter is alright with the sights, and helps him make a clean, quick kill, go for it, splitting hairs be danged. I started shooting a bow in 1970, or hanging around with guys who did, and saw lots of bows several years old with sight plates screwed and taped on, even seen matchsticks glued on to use as a temporary sight. Who am I to judge anyone about small choices in equipment. If it would get another 1000 folks interested into shooting trad, I would say hooray. I have found that traditional archery is a lot like trad. muzzleloaders. We find ourselves ever going backwards towards more primitive weapons, as our skill increases. Just MHO.
QuoteOriginally posted by Archer Fanatic:
I'm probably going to get kicked off of tradgang but so be it. This kinda of thread is irresponsible and stupid. Most guys I see shouldn't even be shooting a recurve or longbow. I statrted back in the 60's and this thread comes accross as elistist.
Where do these people come from!!!!!
He proclaims that HE see's folks that shouldn't be shooting Trad,......and then turns right around a says this thread comes across as elitist???
:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
Amen, caleb7mm.
I have no problem with sights. I think they are traditional. They're just not instinctive, which for me, is FAR more accurate in actual hunting situations because I don't have to do any math, which I'm not that good at. And I don't have to judge distance accurately, which I'm not very good at when there is a whole sky of antlers in front of me. And I won't carry a rangefinder ... all I have to do is look at it and shoot it. I seldom shoot two arrows from the same distance when I practice and I shoot every day. When I shot a compound I shot it bare until I was working so much I couldn't shoot it everyday. Then I went to sights as a kind of crutch. But it's not as much fun for me. It's not poetry. It's math.
I don't mind a bow with a sight for those who need them they can make it a lot more enjoyable. What I have issue with is the word traditional associated with my archery... ain't that kind of like antique or something.. :D
"traditional" and "instinctive" are not synonymous.
You can be traditional without being instinctive and you can shoot instinctively without being traditional.
ok i have read all 5 pages of this and i am wondering if if it was worth the cost. The thread could be taken as elitist in that this guy is disappointed in three rivers for carring sights and he don't want to see anyone at a shoot with sights because he does'nt belive that sights have a place in trad archery. Hence if your bow isn't like my bow it's not traditional. At the same time the use of words like "irresponsible and stupid" are degrading to the other member instead of addressind the topic. So what has Trad Gang gained from this? We have a fellow who still feels the same about sights and one member who has lost his membership because he finally snapped because of threads started to cause controversy. Enough said won't be long i'm sure till we can all read another "instinctive or gap" thread i can't wait
QuoteOriginally posted by 3undr:
ok i have read all 5 pages of this and i am wondering if if it was worth the cost. The thread could be taken as elitist in that this guy is disappointed in three rivers for carring sights and he don't want to see anyone at a shoot with sights because he does'nt belive that sights have a place in trad archery. Hence if your bow isn't like my bow it's not traditional. At the same time the use of words like "irresponsible and stupid" are degrading to the other member instead of addressind the topic. So what has Trad Gang gained from this? We have a fellow who still feels the same about sights and one member who has lost his membership because he finally snapped because of threads started to cause controversy. Enough said won't be long i'm sure till we can all read another "instinctive or gap" thread i can't wait
or, since the topic starter is 19 years old, he's just ignorant about "modern" trad archery in the 50's and 60's. we're all ignorant about lotsa things, and maybe he just needs some olde tyme schoolin' and be told by his elders that sights on bows have been around for ages and can be as "traditional" as instinctive aiming. :)
I couldn't care less if a guy puts a sight on his longbow or recurve. What business is it of mine? Hunt/shoot for yourself.
Have to agree with what's been said about tradition being in the eye of the traditioneer. Hell, as long as people are involved in archery, I'm happy. Sights, instinct, compound, recurve, selfbow, carbon or wood - if it means you're having fun with it, it means you're doing it right! :) :archer2:
I don't care what 3Rivers sells as long as they keep selling the stuff I need and keep up their excellent constomer service and quick shipping.
I honestly don't see what the hubub is about with 3 Rivers selling sights. Trad archery is, honestly, clinging on the word "trad". I am trying to get back into trad archery after a 20 yr absence - so I can appreciate the "modernization". For starters . . . computer designed limbs, carbon arrows (seems like wood arrows are a minority), synthetic FF string that does not stretch, carbon laminations in limbs, etc, etc. Why do sights shock anybody? If trad archery keeps advancing, might as well just make a longer riser and put wheels on the ends. Like everything else in modern society, it is driven ty technology and companies trying to take your hard-earned dollar. And many in the masses have fallen for it . . . trail camera's, hand-held GPS, scent block clothing, etc, etc, etc. Honestly, I was wanting to get back into trad archery to sort of get away from all the technology, sort of a simpler time and place - where the sport depends mostly on your skill, not technology. I really can't identify with today's trad archers. Just my 2 cents. No reason to rant and rave about a company selling a bow site given all the other tech stuff that is common place. If Howard Hill or Fred Bear could be brought back to life, they could out hunt any of us.
That's fine that they sell them, they're a business and some folks want sites. I'm new to traditional archery and I enjoy instinctive shooting. A big part of moving away from compounds for me was not wanting to tinker with adjusting the sights and the rest and the peep and this and that, I just wanted to shoot the bow!
Thanks Rob I had no idea that sights were ever used on traditional bows. Once again I offer my sincere apology to those who I have offended and to the moderators of tradgang as I did not mean for this to cause all the controversy.Now I am asking that Terry or one of the other moderators please delete this topic so it will end all the controversy. Once again my sincerest apologies.
Back in the 50's and 60's when there were just longbows and recurves there were two classes at the Field Archery meets. One was bare bow (self explanatory) and the other was Free Style (sights). If you go back in time to the 20's and 30's you will find longbows with sights. Nothing non trad about sights. Lots of folks would do better with them than they are doing without them. What a sight will force you to do is develop correct and consistent form.
As long as the discussion is reasonably civil, a little discourse never hurt anyone. I don't believe I've ever read one of these "controversial" threads where I haven't learned something; even on topic occasionally ;-)
QuoteOriginally posted by Javi:
We were having this discussion in 1960, good to see y'all carrying on the TRADITION... :D
:thumbsup:
I use sights... my arrow.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ben Kleinig:
I use sights... my arrow.
now there is the *perfect* point - yes, pun intended! :D
if you use ANYTHING other than ONLY yer eyes bearing down on the mark, yer probably using some form of a "bow sight".
ALL gap and point-of-aim shooters are sight shooters! you betcha they are! how's that for stirring up the pot? ;)
For years I fought the urge to have a couple threaded inserts mounted in the sight window so I could screw just a sight pin into them with out having an ugly mounting bracket. One of these days I may break down and do it. My first recurves back in the early 70's came drilled for a sight bracket and stabilizer.
That makes it Traditional for me.
I wonder if the poster shoots glass bows with aluminum or carbon arrows? Traditional to me means no wheels. No glass,carbon or steel means primitive.
It's all good.
:campfire:
Just as long as they dont drop other essential stuff from their line im ok with it.....
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
QuoteOriginally posted by Ben Kleinig:
I use sights... my arrow.
now there is the *perfect* point - yes, pun intended! :D
if you use ANYTHING other than ONLY yer eyes bearing down on the mark, yer probably using some form of a "bow sight".
ALL gap and point-of-aim shooters are sight shooters! you betcha they are! how's that for stirring up the pot? ;) [/b]
I guess this makes me guilty of using a "bow sight"! At least when I shoot past 15 yards.
Although I prefer to be called a "gapstinctive" hunter/shooter! :biglaugh:
I don't see a problem with using a sight...I choose not to but that is me. I would much rather see someone use a sight on there bow and be accurate than out there loosing game just to say they shoot instinctive. There is no shame in aiming! just my 2 cents.