I have a set of 40lb tradtech ILF limbs on a 13" zipper riser. I'm figuring that its pulling 44-46 pounds at my 29" draw. When I was arrow tuning I noticed that unweighted gold tip 35/55 with 200gr muzzy phantom tip weighing in at 455gr @ 178fps were the best flying setup. They fly like darts. I think these might be a little too light but when I put in weight tubes and they weigh 590gr and clock at 156fps. They seem to fly better unweighted.
Unweighted they have similar trajectory to my other bows. This ought to do for deer/black bear/caribou?
What are some of your guys setup specs that you have harvested game with and what kind of performance did you get? Penetration on big game experience especially.
I just started, but have 2 complete passthrough shots on deer at 8, and 20 yards, with a 550gr arrow, 3 blade head. Bow is 45@28, drawn 29.25.
I'd think if your tuned good, you should be all right.
Hope that helps.
B
A few years ago I had back surgery in Aug. I bought a used BW PMA that was 41# @28. Killed 3 deer with it that fall and using 150 Stingers. Tune your arrows and have sharp broadheads and you'll be fine.
doug77
i use a gt 35/55 cut to 29 inches with 175 grain broadheads. i've had good success with that set up on deer and hogs up to about 150lbs. Make sure you have a scary sharp broadhead and put it where it counts and you will be ok. :thumbsup:
I have and normally use heavier bows 55-60lb shooting 600+ gr arrows. I was just wondering how this little bow would do for late season, always easier to shoot a light bow when your half frozen.
Yep, provided your shots are true, you use those 200-220 sharp muzzy's, your good for deer/black bear/caribou.
I shoot around 53lbs at 28 with 450grain arrows for elk.
I think you're fine without the added weight. a long draw length and straight-flying arrows are going to benefit you.
This year, I'm experimenting with the lightest arrow setup for both of my light poundage bows which you can see in my signature. I had to compromise though.
The 32", 421 grain 2212 aluminum arrow generates good arrow speed (42#=185 fps & 37#=174 fps) measured with regards to fps (feet per second). But, I have to use a 75 grain point weight and there are no 2 blade 75 grain broadheads. This gave me a slight problem to overcome.
The broadheads I used on my heavy arrow setups (2117 with my 42# bow and 2114 with my 37# bow) was a 2 blade STOS which are 1 1/8" wide. As they say, "necessity is the mother of invention".
For my light arrow setup, I'm going against conventional wisdom and using a 3 blade Muzzy 75 grain broadhead, but it's only 1" wide. I'm figuring the extra 30 fps (feet per second) gain I'm picking up with the lighter 2212 with the narrower 1" wide Muzzy 75 grain will get the job done even with the extra blade.
In essence, I'm basically shooting a "field point with 3 low profile razor blades".
GPP (grains per pound) arrow wise, the 2212 at 421 grains is heavy enough for both of my bows if you look at my signature.
For those wanting to shoot a lighter weight bow with a light arrow, don't shy away from experimentation because speed will come into the equation when it comes to penetration.
anybody know of a good 200gr screw in single bevel broad head? The 225gr steel force is the only one I have seen other than grizzly and I hear their not making them anymore.
Look at the vpa penetrator,don't think they are single bevel,but a nice head.
a guy on archery talk uses arrows under 400gr (think 360ish) and used a rage 40 ke (1.5" mech head) out of a lighter set up. he shot a doe at 25 yds qaurtering away and it penetrated to the opposite shoulder.
They still make the Steel force 225gr. I know its not listed on their web site but give them a call if you want to hear straight from the horses mouth. I use them and am VERY impressed with them.
3rivers, and Black Widow sell them on their web sites. (BW has for $10 less than 3R)
QuoteOriginally posted by Thebear_78:
I have a set of 40lb tradtech ILF limbs on a 13" zipper riser. I'm figuring that its pulling 44-46 pounds at my 29" draw. When I was arrow tuning I noticed that unweighted gold tip 35/55 with 200gr muzzy phantom tip weighing in at 455gr @ 178fps were the best flying setup. They fly like darts. I think these might be a little too light but when I put in weight tubes and they weigh 590gr and clock at 156fps. They seem to fly better unweighted.
Unweighted they have similar trajectory to my other bows. This ought to do for deer/black bear/caribou?
What are some of your guys setup specs that you have harvested game with and what kind of performance did you get? Penetration on big game experience especially.
you asked for opinionated advice ...
you've got arrows that are about 10gpp and they fly like darts. so what's the problem? it's what yer hunting ...
you want to kill deer, fine.
you want to kill bear/caribou with 46# and 455gr arrows, i'd think again. don't underbow for bigger game. particularly where bears are concerned.
not physically up to handling at least 55# (or more) of stick bow and 550gr arrows for large game? rethink your ethical and safe hunting priorities.
just my humble opinions ...
Just my opinion--
Many are testing, justifying and possibly rationalizing the use of minimum limits.
Why are the animals we pursue afforded such a lower level of repect? They should be granted the highest priority and not something that may work if conditions are ideal just because we prefer a particular set-up.
My opinion is that you are parked at the very min limit for arrow wt based on your set-up for deer. I would never advise this. The 10 gpp rule, in my book, should be based on ~53#'s for high confidence levels of adequate lethality for deer sized game. The gpp recommendation goes up as the draw wt goes down and also as the game size we pursue goes up. Ex...The gpp recommendations increase ~ 1 gpp for every ~4# drop in draw wt. Of course there are exceptions such as equivelents derived from drawing heavier draw wts and shooting lighter gpp arrows.
Increasing the 10 gpp guideline to 11 gpp at 50#'s( for deer sized game) could serve well in resolving concerns for appropriote confidence levels since 10 gpp has often been applied to nearly all draw wts for deer sized game.
The examples and suggestions for actual draw wt and gpp recommendations are not inended to be percieved as scientific. The direction I have presented is however, in my opinion, precise.
QuoteOriginally posted by Thebear_78:
anybody know of a good 200gr screw in single bevel broad head? The 225gr steel force is the only one I have seen other than grizzly and I hear their not making them anymore.
Eclipse makes screw in werewolf broadheads that you can get double or single bevel in 150, 175 or 200 grs. I have tried the 175's and they shoot well for me.
http://www.werewolfbroadheads.com/
Ben
What are you shooting at? A setup for blacktail is gonna be quite differnet from one for a moose hunt.
Brother, If you are hunting deer, black bear, hogs, even elk, your fine if you put it in the boiler room. We are over doing it on shooting telephone poles with broadheads made to penetrate armour. For everthing in north america except Grizzly (and you are suicidal if you hunt Griz with a bow) you can kill with a 45lb bow shooting 45O grain arrows. I shoot a 49# bow with 550 grain arrows with Abowyer, Grizzly or Tusker BH. That is because that is what flys out of my bow and I can sharpen the BH's. I also shoot 5.5 inch shield cut feathers that some people would have a problem with.
I love this forum, but footing carbon arrows with aluminum, shooting EFOC arrows, single bevel broadheads, shooting 12 grains per pound of bow weight arrows is getting extreme. Most of this forum shoots whitetail deer that you can kill with a 30lb bow.
JMHO
Question was asked about 200 gr. single bevel screw ins. I will limit opinions to just that point.
Tim at Braveheart (sponsor) sells the Tusker KME Sharp single bevel heads. Ground, with single bevel and tanto = 145. Combine with the Muzzy 42 gr insert, your adhesion method of choice (I like hot melt myself) and a couple of #8 shot pellets ahead of the insert and you come in right around 195-197 gr!
You will NOT get them sharper than the KME sharpened!
I would never use this setup for moose, They are just too big. I am capable of shooting much more weight. I have bows as high as #72 pounds that I shoot. I just have these light limbs and shoot the bow quite well with similar trajectory as my heavier bows that shoot heavier arrows.
I would probably be well served to just trade off or sell these lighter limbs and pick up a heavier set for this bow. My main hunting bows are currently 56-60 pound shooting 600+ gr arrows. I was shooting 865gr arrows out of that #72 bow but its getting hard on my elbow and shoulders.
I was going to take the zipper out after snowshoes today but the chance is always there to get a shot at a black bear. Average black bear weights are usually 150-250 pounds and was wondering if that would be enough. Black bear aren't really any tougher to push and arrow thru than any whitetail.
this setup is quite a bit lighter, both arrow weight and poundage, that my other setups and I was hoping I was just over thinking this whole weight needed thing. I would definitely feel better with bow weight in the low 50s and arrow weight over 500-550.
The only problems I've encountered have been the combo of light bows, light arrows and big broadheads.
You also have to be honest with yourself on what kind of shots you will and won't take.
Hit 'em in the soft spots and it's like shooting at a water balloon with a few popsicle sticks in front.
QuoteOriginally posted by sawtoothscream:
a guy on archery talk uses arrows under 400gr (think 360ish) and used a rage 40 ke (1.5" mech head) out of a lighter set up. he shot a doe at 25 yds qaurtering away and it penetrated to the opposite shoulder.
I saw that post. The guy is shooting a 48# bow with a 7 GPP (grains per pound) arrow. Although he didn't state it, I know his arrow is traveling well over 200 fps (feet per second).
Speed does kill, but shooting that light of a GPP arrow has a good chance to damage a bow's limbs.
When I buy a recurve bow built for me from a custom bowyer, I always ask the bowyer what is the lowest GPP arrow he recommends for his model bow. I have yet to find one that recommends a 7 GPP arrow.
I personally don't think you have a problem. BTW I shoot 200 grain heads also. Abowyer Brown Bears weigh 175 with a short insert you come in at 200-210 grains. Tusker, 165 grain Condores with 42 grain inserts after sharpening come out at around 200 grains. Of course Grizzly el grande 165 grain with 42 grain inserts are around 200 after sharpening.
The problem is Abowyers are more expensive than gold and Grizzly's you will be hard pressed to find. Tuskers are great and sharpen easy with time and a good file.
Just shot a 190 lb. black bear on August 30 with about a 58# draw weight. I used an ICS Bowhunter 400 at 31" with a 100 grain Magnus Stinger 4 blade. That would put my set up at about 7.0 gpp. The distance was 18 yards. My arrow entered the edge of the shoulder blade, passed thru both lungs and stopped in the opposing heavy arm bone. The bear ran about 60 yards and expired.
If you like the way your arrows shoot, shoot them. If you want to experiment, I would suggest to start after the hunting season is over. Heavy arrows work. Light arrows work.
By the way, my arrows don't blow up my bow. My bow is not loud with these arrows. They shoot just fine. And they hit like a ton of bricks.
I respect NightWing's post. I just received my first custom Blacktail bow from Norm Johnson 6 weeks ago. From talking to Norm, he's not much in favor of lighter weight arrows. From his literature he sent with the bow, his only recommendation is not to shoot less than 7 gpp with fast flight string.
To my knowledge, Norm's guarantee doesn't have a minimum grain per pound. But, if I was to build bows, I would have a minimum. On the other hand, I shoot bows, so my feelings on this side of the equasion are somewhat different.
That said, I've been going crazy trying to get arrows tuned to my new Blacktail. I've finally solved that today, 2 days before the season. I will be shooting ICS Bowhunter 500 with 150 gr Stinger 4 blades and 10 extra grains of brass washers. The bow is 48# at my 29 1/2". This will be 8.86 grains per pound.
I think this will be a great set up - not too light to cause trouble with Norm if there's trouble with the bow, not too heavy and all the problems that I don't want with heavy arrows.
Had a hard time convincing myself to join the heavier arrow crowd. Best penetration advantage no doubt within reason. There is an optimum speed/weight ratio likely different for each setup.