Don't know if shooting a 2-fletch arrow is a controversial act or not but I have been using them successfully for about 12 years now. I have a short 25" draw length and shoot between 52 and 54# and a "Big" 1 3/4" broadhead. Last night I shot a big mature doe at about 15 yards quartering away and after a clean pass through from the treestand the arrow exited the deer and took an upward path for another 20 yards and stuck in a ponderosa pine about 3 feet off the ground. I get awesome arrow flight and would'nt have it any other way. Anyone else with properly spined arrows ever try two-fletch?
Hey! Congrats on the doe, Jim. I have been shooting the two fletch ever since we spoke about it....works like a champ for me, too. I like how they sit in the quiver as a side bonus with a two blade mounted up front. I have never been one to feel the need to strap a parachute on the tail of my arrows....a decent tune doesn't need overkill style fletching. I think I might see how it works with vanes on my ILF rigs....probably have to orient them just a bit different but I think it'll work. Thanks for the great tip!
-Rob
Could you post a pic of your two fletch arrows? Are the feathers directly across from each other or how do you have them set up?
Congrats Jim! Tell us more about the setup, as in how to set up in the fletching jig, 4" or 5", etc.... also would love to see the results of your broadhead on the doe.
What size fletch do you use Jim?
I had a thread started about this earlier this week but for some reason it appears to be gone???? either way I tried it after seeing some stuff that you had said about two fletch.
It works, I tested it against a few other arrows and found it had less wind drift than 3 or 4 and shot as well with a properly tuned arrow. I tried 2 4" and 2 5" feathers, both worked pretty well. I will probably to some 5" banana shaped feathers with it too.
I wish I knew what happened to that other post, it had a couple of pages worth of comments on it.
I'm having a hard time visualizing a two fletch setup, I too would be curious to see a picture of your setup
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a54/Thebear_78/2011-09-23_18-55-39_117.jpg)
As much helical as I can get on the bitz, glue in a cock feather, then rotate 180 degrees and glue in another. They spin well and fly as good as 3 fletch on a properly tuned arrow.
I am sure Jim will be back with the scoop.
I believe thier mounted at 5:00 and 11:00 O'clock.The bottom feather passes through a trough between the rest and sight window.The top feather will pass with no contact on the shelf.
Don't doubt that the use of 2-fletch may have its benefits.
The ideal rotational position is personally and unfortunatley unfavorable since I utilize a nose-touch soft anchor.
TTT
I use some two-fletch (mounted at 11 and 5 o'clock), but shoot them only for roving. However, I just get better flight with 3 feathers.
I'm frugal, but the cost of an extra feather is minimal if it helps my broadhead fly true.
Different, but if if isnt broke, dont fix it.
Would have to believe a high range EFOC and especially an Ultra-EFOC arrow may make the 2-fletch an ideal candidate for trials.
What kind of bow did you use? ;)
Killdeer :wavey:
Ha ha ha!!!!
HMMM!
Who woulda thunk.LOL
I shoot 2 fletch. I like the way they look.
4's are cool and 5's are like water slides around the shaft.
Have never entered or won any shooting contests but; shoot fairly well. No need to line up the fletching...just nock and fire.
@50 pound longbows (4's) and recurves (5's).
145 to 200 grain Ace heads. Points, hex, and broad heads.
I'm as cheap as the next frugal arra builder but, capped,crested,and barred looks cool; to me...
Killy, I shoot odd ball bows I find at garage sales :biglaugh:
Hey everyone, I want to break it down very simply so there is no confusion. I use all modern style fletchings and shoot Easton Axis arrows so I do not want anyone getting confused with the original "Native American" style 2-fletch. I shoot right handed and right helical 5" low profile parabolic feathers. The reason for this is I like the way right wing feathers lay on the arrow shaft. The portion of the fletch that is closest to the broadhead starts out higher on the arrow and as the fletch gets taller, it is angling down towards the side of the arrow shaft for a less obstructed view down the arrow. For a left handed shooter, they would want to shoot left helical for the same optical appearance and least amount of interference to the shooters line of site.
For application of a properly made 2-fletch arrow, I personally use the Bitzenberger fletching jig. I'm sure others will due but this is what I use. Leave the nock index knob on the jig exactly where it is. You will not touch the knob at all during the fletching process. Push the arrow nock down over the nock indexer. Place the arrow into the jig and either use fletch tape or glue to attach the feather. If using fletch tape, when you remove the clamp from the feather, make sure that the feather does not curl at all. This can happen on any feather whether it is 2, 3, or 4 fletch so make sure that has not happened. When you are certain that the feather is on the shaft properly, I will use a quick drying glue with some accelerator on the front of the fletch, down the side and at the back to lock it in place. Now for the other feather. Take the whole arrow out of the jig, spin it 180 degrees and push it back down over the nock indexer. Repeat what you did with the first feather and you will have a perfectly fletched 2-fletched arrow. You "DO NOT" need anymore helical then what you normally use.
Benefits of this method are:
1. The 2-fletch drift less in a cross wind. A 3 or 4 fletch arrow always has 2 or more feathers fighting a cross wind therefore the tail of the arrow is always a bit off with the nock not being directly behind the point 100% of the time. A 2-fletch arrow has the nock directly behind the point 50% of the time in a cross wind because as it spins, every half rotation the feathers are parrallel with the wind so the tail end of the arrow keeps pulling in behind the point.
2. Nocking the arrow on the string is identical either way you do it so no need to look for a cock feather or nock indexer for reference.
3. There is minimal contact with the shelf as one feather cuts through the area in the corner of the shelf and the other touches nothing as it clears about the shelf on the outside.
4. They stack in bow mounted quivers very nicely as there is no 3rd or 4th feather for the next arrow to scrape against eliminating any unecessary fletching to fletching noise.
5. Quick and easy to fletch and are very silent during flight.
Please realize that bare shaft tuning is a HUGE part of good arrow flight no matter how many fletchings an individual chooses to use. With a properly spined and tuned arrow for a bow, I have found that the 2-fletch setup has several benefits as described above even when shooting large diameter broadheads. I wanted to let the trad community know about my experience with this as I have been shooting and hunting with 2-fletch for the better portion of my archery career and would be happy to help anyone with questions concerning this topic.
Thanks, Jim Neaves
If I were to send someone pictures, would you post them for me?
I have heard about two fletch before and I am considering trying it myself. I shoot 55-60lbs. With that weight would the two fletch still work?
I've got a couple I made with 5.5" low bananas. They certainly fly well, even with Simmons Tigersharks. I've got some helical in them, but not a huge amount. It was really windy today, and they had much less tail drag than 3x4 shields, 4x4 shields, 3x5 shields, and definitely 4x5.5 low bananas.
Tex-archer, I don't see why the bow poundage would matter. You just need to make sure the arrow spine is the correct one for your bow and the way you shoot.
Arrow weight is a personal preference. As for my reccomendation, 10 grains of arrow weight per pound of bow weight is a solid balance between maintaining good kinetic energy, flat trajectory within ethical hunting distances, and enough weight to absorb the bows energy to keep it quiet. Arrow spine is the key to good arrow flight ultimately though.
Good stuff and congrats on the kill. It's unfortuate the previous thread got deleted. You have posted some great info on how you do it and why. 2 fletch is a viable hunting setup using both modern and primitive methods. If you need I will be glad to post pics, probably not till in the morning though. How about 2 fletch with a turbulator ? Now that will be opening the can of worms ! snakewood@sbcglobal.net
Tex-archer, let me add(regardless of bow poundage)
I fletched up a few arrows yesterday and tested them. 2 each were 4" 4 fletch 75x105, 4" 3 fletch, 5" 3 fletch, 5" 2 fletch. the 4 fletch were burned banana, 4" 3 fletch was chopped shield, and 5"were burned shield. all right wing with lots of helical.
all grouped together and all flew well. the biggest difference was probably sound. the 2 fletch was noticably quieter than the others, followed by the 4" 3 fletch. these allwere well tuned shafts that bare shaft very well.
to further test I shot them out of another bow that shot those bare shafts way left. no surprise the 4 fletch and 5" 3 fletch flew much better and 2 fletch and 4" three fletch had noticably more kick and poorer flight.
I guess it was no surprise, more feather = more forgiving of spine variance and inconsistancy of form. That being said when properly tuned the two fletch is very quiet and as
effective as 3 fletch. The 4" banana was most stable across the board but had a bit of hiss to it.
a cautionary comment ...
a "modern" 2-fletch DOES work well, IF all the right parameters are involved - the shooter's form/release is good and consistent, good bare shaft flight under hunting conditions, and the 2-fletch arrows have been well field tested under hunting venue conditions.
the reason(s) for using a 2-fletch? i don't see any that are major functional, and i don't buy into the added quietness. i did my own 2, 3, 4, 6 fletch testing and feather noise has much to do with the feather fletch itself, the degree of offset/helical, the shape and height, AND your release. i mostly use a 4" banana low profile 4-fletch and it offers as little a 20 yard downrange noise as 2 and 3 fletched arrows of varying shapes and configs.
the reasons for more than 2 fletches can be summed up in one word - "insurance". faster arrow spin, quicker paradox recovery, added arrow stability.
there are bowhunters who should not even attempt a 2-fletch 'til they get all their ducks in a row, first. and even so, yer adding another measure of concern when out hunting.
this is NOT to knock those who know how to use a 2-fletch - just as with those who prefer to go trad primitive, it's all viable trad bowhunting if in the right, capable hands.
and that's that, from my perspective.
Pic's for Jim....
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c359/snakewood3/2-FletchConfiguration004.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c359/snakewood3/2-FletchConfiguration003.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c359/snakewood3/2-FletchConfiguration002.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c359/snakewood3/2-FletchConfiguration001.jpg)
Rob...very good spin and synopsis
After many years of trying to run, I always find my way back to perfecting a walk - possibly I should start back at crawling.
Kin to teaching kids or just someone a viable method ,yet that they see a pro executing totally in contradiction. Yes! privileges can be taken if you truely own the skills and control.
Thanks for posting the pics Snakewood3. The arrows that you see are Easton Axis 400's cut at 28" and weigh right at 500gr. There is about 220gr. on the nose of that arrow.
Great photos - thank you for posting those Jim & Snakewood!
I am gonna try some of that 2-fletch action with some Centaur Battle Axe broadheads!
Shoot straight, Shinken
:archer2:
That's cool looking...I'm going to try this..
Mac
well, i experimented with it took few deer and hogs, but still like 3 fletch
Thanks for the new slant on things. I'm going to fire up the old Blitzenberger and give it a try. Alex
Give'r a try fellas,you might be surprised.I made the best shot of my life with a 2 fletched arrow.
Actually,its not a new slant,its just not as popular,or known by many people.I shot some of Gordy Mickens arrows,about 10 er so yrs ago.How many of you,that have well tuned arrows,have had a fletch come off and your arrow still grouped with your 3 fletched arrows?I know i have.
QuoteOriginally posted by Traxx:
...How many of you,that have well tuned arrows,have had a fletch come off and your arrow still grouped with your 3 fletched arrows?I know i have.
please help me understand what yer saying ...
you have a bare shaft that flies well, you stick on some feathers (2 or 3) and arrow still flies well, you pull off one feather and that arrow still flies/groups well?
My realease is less than perfect but on a good one two fletch works good but on a normal for me realease with big broadheads ..not so good. I shoot 3 5.5 feathers.RC
Rob,
Im asking,that if you have well tuned arrows and you have initially,3 fletched them.While shooting,for whatever reason,you loose a fletch.Does your arrow still fly well?Mine did.As a matter of fact,it happened to me at NALS severall years ago,and i shot severall targets with the arrow on purpose.Jim and i had a smile about it afterwards,when i told him.Am i suggesting,that everybody strip a feather off of their existing 3 feather fletch?Absolutely not!Am i suggesting,that everybody needs to use a 2 fletched arrow?No im not.Am i suggesting that 2 fletch works well,when applied properly?Yes,I am.
I shoot four 4" 90° fletch and this morning just ripped off two of the feathers, adjusted the nock and let 'er fly at 30 yards. Looks strange, but they flew great. Quiet. They don't have a lot of helical, but they spun OK.
On the other hand, I can shoot bare shafts and they fly fine too as long as I don't pluck or wobble.
My wife walked by in her pink bathrobe with her coffee and just said, "Don't like it."
So there.
QuoteOriginally posted by Traxx:
Rob,
Im asking,that if you have well tuned arrows and you have initially,3 fletched them.While shooting,for whatever reason,you loose a fletch.Does your arrow still fly well?Mine did.As a matter of fact,it happened to me at NALS severall years ago,and i shot severall targets with the arrow on purpose.Jim and i had a smile about it afterwards,when i told him.Am i suggesting,that everybody strip a feather off of their existing 3 feather fletch?Absolutely not!Am i suggesting,that everybody needs to use a 2 fletched arrow?No im not.Am i suggesting that 2 fletch works well,when applied properly?Yes,I am.
when a fletch is removed so is the aerodynamic spin balance, and the resulting flight is just like a screwball - erratic not good at all, but ya might get lucky and the arrow will end up where it should.
Guess im just one lucky bugger then.
Okay guys lets not get silly about this. There is a right way and a method to what I do and I explained it and have even shown pictures. If you are going to do it right, it needs to be planned. Do not start stripping feathers off 3 fletched arrows. I have described the benefits of a properly spined and properly fletched 2-fletched arrow. The testing has been done and there is a proper way of doing it and I have explained that. Any other way than what I have suggested is your baby but I have over 12 years experience with my method and it is proven so take it for what its worth just don't get stupid.
No offense to anyone here but this thread is about a tried and proven method. The subject can be controversial and that is why I explained in depth about how to do it right. A vehical can function on three good tires and a spare but it won't handle optimally because it was not designed for that to be the norm.(Analogy of ripping one feather off a 4-fletch) Plan a vehical to have only 2 wheels, balance it and design it right and now you have quite a machine. Maybe not the best analogy but you get my drift. Don't try to make a highly balanced crotch-rocket out of a 4 door sedan, just start from scratch and refine the process utilizing common sense and design. You will soon see 4 years of animals taken with highly refined well tuned dual-fletch arrows in the new "Wild Tradition" dvd. Guys, I only have a 25" draw length and shoot in the low 50# range......I can't afford to have less than perfect arrow flight. Rob you make some very good points and people should listen to what you are saying. If you are going to build a 2-fletch arrow, make sure you have your ducks in a row. You would'nt plan your 3-fletched arrow by building 4-fletch arrows and then arbitrarilly cut a fletch off. I understand if it happens and you are out stump shooting or something but when you get home.........fix it or start over. If you are going to try 2-fletch, then use the tips I have given you. No arrow should ever be pre-planned for crappy flight. Do it right! Hope this helps everyone.
Thanks for the pictures, worth a thousand words
Jim have you found the way you mount the BH eg hoz to vert to make any dif in the flight of the arrow Thanks Shane
No difference Shane.
back to the top with a old topic I was looking for.
Anyone else been trying this at all??
let's be realistic, there IS a measure of lost initial (and perhaps total) stability using a 2-fletch. the 2-fletch may look cool and will save 12 fletches per dozen arrows, but functionally, for a trad bowhunter, what is the achievement? imo, there is nothing at all gained worthed mentioning and something of prime significance is lost. but as always, ymmv.
and so, this bears repeating for those intrigued by the siren song of the primitive 2-fletched arrow ...
a cautionary comment ...
a "modern" 2-fletch DOES work well, IF all the right parameters are involved - the shooter's form/release is good and consistent, good bare shaft flight under hunting conditions, and the 2-fletch arrows have been well field tested under hunting venue conditions.
the reason(s) for using a 2-fletch? i don't see any that are major functional, and i don't buy into the added quietness. i did my own 2, 3, 4, 6 fletch testing and feather noise has much to do with the feather fletch itself, the degree of offset/helical, the shape and height, AND your release. i mostly use a 4" banana low profile 4-fletch and it offers as little a 20 yard downrange noise as 2 and 3 fletched arrows of varying shapes and configs.
the reasons for more than 2 fletches can be summed up in one word - "insurance". faster arrow spin, quicker paradox recovery, added arrow stability.
there are bowhunters who should not even attempt a 2-fletch 'til they get all their ducks in a row, first. and even so, yer adding another measure of concern when out hunting.
this is NOT to knock those who know how to use a 2-fletch - just as with those who prefer to go trad primitive, it's all viable trad bowhunting if in the right, capable hands.
Hi Dan. I experimented with 2 fletch arrows making woodies for my brother. It was fun and interesting to try something different. I remember looking for all the info and pictures I could too. For what it's worth I will provide a link to the arrows I did. Rob, as many others here, is a great source of knowledge and we certainly owe the animals we hunt the best arrow we can give them. I am only 3 years into trad archery, so I'm only looking to contribute not pick a fight or argument.
For my two fletch I used molted Canadian goose feathers and my bitz jig set for the most helical it would adjust for. I cut the feathers as long as I could after measuring my brothers brace height and experimenting with the jig. If you look in the photos you will be able to notice that I left the goose feathers full height like a flu flu feather and burned them lower till I felt I had enough and not to much. Although there are only 2 feathers the amount of helical is adjustable and the height and length of the feather is also adjustable. Just my thoughts... good luck and have fun Dan!
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=132257#000000
Know this is an old thread but I shoot two fletch here in the UK. I have one of Jim's centaurs and have gone from shooting three four inch feathers to two five inch feather. Poc shafts. Shield helical. They fly great. I have just stripped a dozen shafts to re fletch with just two. I shoot in competitions at all distances. 3D targets out to say 80 yards field and 250 roving clout - need a few more pound on my next bow for those crazy long clout shoots, but jims bow holds its own, though 250 yds is asking a bit too much against 190lb war bows! Though my wife has won the women's class several times with one of Jim's
Bows. Anyway my remainig three fletch arrows group fine with my two fletch. So I can see no reason so far not to keep with two fletch. Maybe they just happen to work for me. Plus I like the way people squint as they try to figure out what is not quite right with my arrows.....'hey, mate - one of your fletchings has fallen off'
HAHA!!!!
Dont you love that reaction.LOL
I had the same thing happen at a shoot.
I have a Osage self bow that shoots Two fletch better than any other fletch set up. My two fletch arrows are noisy. But they work great out of my self bow. I agree with Rob DiStefano , Shooting them out of one out of my recurves you can sure tell a bad release real quick.
When I have rooster (chicken) feathers I use the Cherokee two fletch. Seems to work well, just a little more noisy than my preferred three fletch with turkey feather.
Wow, there sure seems to be a lot of mountain climbing over a mole hill here. The basic situation here is that for some 2 fletch performs very well and for others not as well. Either way, there is no cause for some of the sharp arguments. For an individual archer, it either works or it doesn't.
I did this as an experiment following the original discussion and it worked fine. I made one, used 5.5" fletch ( what I had on hand) and it flew with the other arrows, even with a broadhead. I did NOT use super wide heads in the test. One area where it really shined ( shone ?) was in the quiver. Very quiet compared to three fletch with 5.5" feathers.
Truth is, I shot it a lot during practice sessions and wore out the fletch and never replaced it. It worked OK, I kinda like other fletch orientation so I went there.
ChuckC
I have been shooting two fletch cane arrows from Ryan Gill. They fly awesome!