Last year I shot VPA's in 175. This was my first year with 3 blades. I ended up sharpening by putting the head on the shaft and stroking from back to front. I then worked them on some cardboard. I got good enough for hunting I think. They did the job, but I really wanted to get them to the next level of sharp.
This year I am shooting 150 woodsmans. I have worked down on the file so far. I worked them down to one light stroke per side then some work on the back of my arm guard. They cut paper ok and I can cut a rubber band without too much pressure, but they don't shave yet.
I have read some of the post and Charles's tutorial on this, but I still have a few questions.
First I think I need a stone and maybe something more to finish. I am looking for the best thing to get that I can get local if possible. Something from Gander Mountain or a well know hardware store if possible. I also have some points I could use up at Cabela, and it would be great if I could get something there. I am trying not to charge anything more this year. Bow season is ready to start, and so far I have stayed out of trouble with the wife. I don't want to push it. :D What should I look for in a stone to use after the file?
Next issue is stropping. Is it better to use smooth tanned leather or the rough side? How much pressures do you use and how many strokes? I know I need to keep at it until I get it shaving sharp, but I don't want to spend a lot of time stropping when I really am not ready for that with the edge.
I am no expert but what I do is back drag them on a fine nickolsan file
Then I go to a smaller file and go sideways back to front like on the three rivers tube demo
I finish by light strokes on a jewel stix makes a slightly toothy edge that works well for me
A very inexpensive to get your Woodsmans shaving sharp is a chain saw raker file. Use if just like a regular file -- then turn it on the side and "steel" the blades. The sides of a raker file have no teeth and can be used just like a butcher's steel would be used on a knife, after you have completed the filing process. Steel the blades lightly from back to front -- one stroke per pair of blades for a total of 30 strokes and they will easily shave. Make sure you put a handle on the file or you will slice yourself to the bone.
Easy and inexpensive.
Good luck this season,
Joe
Todd, Ive been using diamond stone from G-5. I picked up in the classifieds, think it's 600 on one side 800 on the other, using file, 600, 800 and finsh with leather . Shaves hair well, better yet 3 deer last year, all VERY short tracking jobs. Have heard the cc sharpener for three blades from 3-rivers does a nice finish job as well, Good Luck Sataurday ! Todd
I did a search on the raker file. Looks like just a 6" single cut flat file just with no file cut on the edge.
Due you true the blades on a large file first or just do basically what 3 rivers shows and leave the dip in the blades?
I reworked a VPA head from last year and notices that the way I did them last year didn't keep the blades true and flat. It took a little to get the edges true again.
I don't bother to true the blades -- I am only concerned with getting them sharp (sharp is what counts). My file treatment is basically the 3-Rivers video method, except that I lighten the pressure on the file at the end of the file process to stroke them sharp, and then I steel them with the side of the raker file to get them very (shaving) sharp.
Best regards.
Joe
Good luck to you to Todd! It is going to be great weather for the opener. Now if I just didn't have this cold virus. :rolleyes: Oh well, another day and a half to try to get feeling better.
After using I fiel, I use a Smith's diamond hone. It has a coarse side and fine side. Several strokes on coarse, followed by several on fine. Can shave arm hair afterward.
Model I use is called a Smiths Diamond Combination Sharpener. Hone surfaces are only 4 inches long but hone inserts inside handle for storage. They sell for $15 to $20 online.
I use the file, then a ceramic stick. I filed the dip out of mine and get them shaving sharp in no time.
Have always been quite inept at sharpening BH's.
Started using a three sided jewel stick last year. Now my Woodsmans, Snuffers and Big 3's are easily and quickly sharpened to my satisfaction.
What is the difference between the diamond stick 3 Rivers has, 1000 grit, a jewel stick, a steel, and a ceramic rod?
i use wensel woodsman heads pretty much exclusively, and with good results. there are two ways that i know of to sharpen them well enough to shave hairs easily.
the first method gets the blades straight - most are slightly concave, which will prevent flat file sharpening. i do this on a bench sander or belt sander with 120 grit - put the head on a shaft and lay down so the sanding belt runs from the back of the head to its point. do this quickly, about 2 seconds per side, don't get the head too hot and ruin the temper. then i put it on a 12" grobet file and push from back to front on each side 'til a burr is raised. i also "pyramid" the needle point, to make it stronger. i knock down the burr with very light strokes of a very fine diamond file or arkansas stone, then a final polish with light swirls on stiff cardboard.
the second method is to use a 6" grobet file, stroking each pair of blades from back to front - this follows any blade curvature. raise the burr on all edges, "pyramid" the tip, knock down the burr with very light strokes from a very fine diamond file or a stone.
there is another method i've only heard/read about, where you first put the edges on a 6" grinding wheel, light stroking across the wheel's stone - this creates a hollow ground edge that has less angle than if flat ground, that's sharper but a tad more fragile 'cause it's thinner at the edge.
hope this helps.
I just found a way to shave hair with mine this week. I have the old style ones. First, I use a bastard file from 3-Rivers. I use sharpie marker to mark the edges and keep working on them until all the marker is gone and get them level. Drawing back to front towards me. Now for the part that made them shave...for me. I found an old stone in my collection of stuff. Not sure what grit, but it isn't the finest grit. I would say it's just coarser than a fine hone. I use a light, tight, swirling motion like Rob. I couldn't believe it. They shave! Maybe its the swirling motion?
QuoteOriginally posted by spike buck:
I just found a way to shave hair with mine this week. I have the old style ones. First, I use a bastard file from 3-Rivers. I use sharpie marker to mark the edges and keep working on them until all the marker is gone and get them level. Drawing back to front towards me. Now for the part that made them shave...for me. I found an old stone in my collection of stuff. Not sure what grit, but it isn't the finest grit. I would say it's just coarser than a fine hone. I use a light, tight, swirling motion like Rob. I couldn't believe it. They shave! Maybe its the swirling motion?
truth be told, you can get any broadhead or knife to shave hair with nothing more than the coarsest file or stone. it's ALL about raising the burr and then ever so gently and lightly removing that burr. just ask ron @ kme ....
Rob, I'm sure it's possible for some to make them shave with just a coarse file. But, like you, I needed a stone to make it happen.
QuoteOriginally posted by spike buck:
Rob, I'm sure it's possible for some to make them shave with just a coarse file. But, like you, I needed a stone to make it happen.
that's what knocks down the burr - without doing that, removing the burr very gently, the edge won't shave hair.
Todd, try Dayquill and Red bull you'll be good [and wired], Todd
I've messed with these a ton and tried all kinds of instructions and I can for the most part get a 2 blade scary sharp. I'm going to say this if you are laying the blade flat on your arm and trying to shave with it, it's not going to happening just because of the angle of the edge, once you have it polished and think it's sharp tilt it a little bit and then try and shave with it. Just by it's design it's not going to shave like a two blade,but it's plenty sharp to hunt with.
That's my opinion and am sticking too it until someone can send me one sharpened on a flat stone/file that makes hair pop.
Here is what I do , first use a Rada wheel for five strokes then jewel stick. I strope on leather with polish paste , rough side first then smooth side . This only takes a couple minutes per head and they shave hair after this. Drew
I found that when I had previous trouble getting them to shave easily it was due to using too much pressure. Reduce the pressure and increase the number of strokes, when it start to "feel" sharp, use very, very light pressure. I finish on cardboard and am now happy with the results.
I am close. I got one of those racker files from a chain saw shop near work, and that got me a little sharper. It is a little more fine a cut than my 10 or maybe it is 12" file. I can cut hair, but not real easy like it pops hair. Good to go for hunting l am sure. I think I need a stone or jewel stick to get to the next level. That or a lot of stropping.
I know I can't get the same level of sharp feel as two blades. If I figured right, the angle on the blades is 68 deg. That is a long way from my average knife edges with angles from high teens to mid 20's for angles.
QuoteOriginally posted by Todweelz:
Todd, try Dayquill and Red bull you'll be good [and wired], Todd
Todd, got the Nyquil and Dayquil combo pack yesterday. That has helped a lot. Better now. Goimg to skip the red bull. Had 500 pic's on my cam that was out 20 days at my opener stand. That took care of the need for the red bull. Can't wait for morning. Good luck and stay safe!
I have been using 80 grit sandpaper clipped to a clipboard. I will push the broadhead 5 times rotating sides then less strokes. I then use 120 grit sandpaper rotating as above and follow up with a ceramic stick. Always comes out razor sharp.
QuoteOriginally posted by spike buck:
Rob, I'm sure it's possible for some to make them shave with just a coarse file. But, like you, I needed a stone to make it happen.
That's very true... Some people can get them to shave using only a file and others need to finish with stones. Stropping will dramatically improve the finished edges in either case though.
Todd, you can get by with some wet/dry automotive sandpaper if you don't have stones. A sheet or two of 320, 600, and 1000 or so followed by a leather or cardboard strop will tune them right up. You can get the wet/dry sandpaper at any auto parts store. Use a piece of glass, metal, or hard plastic that is very flat under the paper and make sure to use enough water to keep the paper pretty wet. Finish by stropping with long backward strokes on a big piece of cardboard and you'll have them shaving in no time.
Ron
I was taught to sharpen three blades by Roger Rotthhaar back in the 70's when the Snuffers first came on the scene. They can be made to shave. I have used snuffers, woodsman and now have a stash of Razorcaps because I think the steel in them is superior...sharp going in....sharp coming out.
I use DMT stones. The black stone is the coarsest and I work hard on some to get the edges with a burr. Once this happens it is no work at all to get them shaving. I pull them back to front, alternating two blades at a time. I do this 30 times so each blade gets 10 strokes per side. After the black stone I do a series of 30 on the blue stone with lighter pressure. Then I do it on the red stone...even lighter pressure. After each stone I check each blade for sharpness. I have gotten to the point where I can feel it grab my skin. I don't go to the next stone until I feel it is cutting. After the red stone I can shave but then I use a small ceramic stone and lay it on my thigh. I lay the arrow across my other thigh and with just the weight of the head and enough pressure to keep the blades on the rod I do my 30 strokes. When I am done i can shave my face if I want to. The only deviation I make in this system is that if I have a really banged up head from sticking it in the rocky soil I may take it down to my belt sander and very carefully work out the dings and get that burr. If your fist step fails to get the burr you will never get any blade sharp.
This has been pretty well covered but I true up each blade by going front to back on a 12" mill bastard file to eliminate the dip. I then go front to back on the file with two blades at a time to recut the angle. Then I use a double sided Norton stone from KME to work the edges smooth always doing the two blades at a time on the stone and finish up with a fine Arkansas stone from KME to really hone the edge. I strop on cardboard backwards.
QuoteOriginally posted by xtrema312:
What is the difference between the diamond stick 3 Rivers has, 1000 grit, a jewel stick, a steel, and a ceramic rod?
I will throw in Arkansas stone and anything with hone after it. Any help with comparing these? Are they all about the same? I want to get something, but not sure of the differences?
Thanks for all the input.