I've been reading the stories and looking at the pictures of everyone's hunts and enjoy them greatly. But it got me wondering.
I've done next to no hunting, but when I was younger my father always taught me if wanting to use someone's property to always ask permission, no matter what the reason. Permission to hunt, walk through, whatever. So I got curious if anyone's been denied permission to someone's property when you were trying to retrieve a kill or track an animal you had shot? This might be a foolish question, but if you're not allowed access what do you do?
Pat
I sure have! It would have been my first deer ( with a black powder ). The doe got across a creek on me, and i could see her limping but was not certain i could make the shot.
My best friend and i went to the land owner and he told me now that she was on his land she would be fine!! I tried calling the MNR but could not get a hold of anyone.
Over the next two days in the same area i could not believe how many crows dropped down in the little gully i last seen her in. I was so dissapointed i stopped hunting the rest of the season.
Bill
Contact the DNR or whatever it is called in Illinois. They should help you recover the animal, especially if you have a blood trail leading to the other property. Most states have provisions for entering private property (usually unarmed) to recover game, but check your game laws.
I sure have and it hurts just thinking about it. 150 inch ten pointer in 1999. and the dnr cant make a landowner let you enter there property if they dont want you there at least here in IL anyway.
I have a friend that was a couple years ago.. It was a bad deal.
shot a doe once with a .308 ran about 200 yards across a field and the landowner told me to go pound salt when I asked if I could look for her.
That would not be right especially with proof of a blood trail. I guess after being nice and denied, I would take a chance on a trespassing fine to do what was right. Some people have no common sense I guess.
I could see the one i was talking about piled up in a picked corn field. I also stood there with a conservation officer later while we watched the owners son tag field dress and load him up. Nothing me or the officer could do.
Here in Arkansas if they have to allow you to retrieve your kill. If they deny you entry then the Game & Fish will show up and escort you on their property.
Can't just let a deer rot out in the woods.
YES ..I helped a very young bowhunter track his deer a few years ago. It wen't into a SOB's property ..He didn't let us follow the deer. It would of been this young mans "FIRST" ! So sad !
The best time to get permission is before you need it. It is all part of preparing for the hunt and every bit as important as anything else. I would not take a shot without knowing I will be able to recover. So no, I have never been stopped from recovering an animal.
How many people set up right on the property line of property they don't have permission to hunt knowing there is a good chance their game may end up on the other side?
in indiana you cannot tresspass to retrieve game,if they so no sorry about you luck.if i catch someone tresspassing to retrieve a deer off to jail they go,but if they would make a 2 min.call id be glad to go back and help
Not only was I denied, back in 2003, to retrieve the biggest deer I ever shot (9 point). The land owner gutted it in front of me. Last time I ever hunted with a gun. Went total trad from then on for everything.
I have. Its a heart breaker. the thought of that animal going to waste just turns my gut. I had a buck go down about 20yards on the owners land( that i had been bs'n for years). I could even see the buck. After all the phone calls and talking till i was blue, punched my tag and hung it up for the year. lost all respect for that man.
Got a jack wagon that bought a house on ten acres he.s got a pond a ten acres of lawn and a bait pile next to my family.s land( we boarderthe north and west side ) should we give him the right to get a deer if it doesent die on his lawn??? his bait pile was illegal also last yr here in mi.
It's pretty sad so many people have been denied. I agree that prior permission is definitely the way to go, but circumstances change and every contingency can't be thought of.
I just started shooting trad (and archery in general) about five months ago. While I would love to get out October 1st for the opener I know it wouldn't be fair to the animal and I don't have enough confidence or skill.
I was just thinking on that as my stepfather-in-law is on a family farm, but doesnt get along with any of his neighbors. And when I do get the chance to join you all in the woods I want to do things correctly and ethically.
Pat
I haven't ever been turned down yet. I haven't turned anyone down yet either.
I know a young man, several years ago he killed a real nice buck and went back to get his dad to help drag the deer out and when they got back 2 other hunters had his deer and would not let him have it. The boy told his dad to let it go and they went and got the game warden. When the hunters got back to the vehicle with his deer he thanked them for dragging it out. They said "what do you mean its your deer"? The boy reached way back in the deers ear and pulled his field tag out. Ironic isn't it? :D
Great points SteveB and R. Fletcher. That makes a big difference. Often I think people doing the right thing pay for all those that came before you, who didn't do the right thing.
I once shot a buck on our property and went to get it off our property. I had hunting access to the property the deer went on. The property owner didn't live on the property most of the year and didn't hunt. It was my first buck. One of the guys hunting there flesh wounded it with a rifle after it had already gone down once and was trying to get fully back on it's feet. This was a non rifle hunting area. I had hit it with a high double lung shot. I got to the deer and was going to tag it. I had heard a shot a long way off, but didn't know they were shooting at my deer. I got run off by five grown men. I was just a kid. I got a DNR officer and they paid big given some had rifles, untagged deer and so on.
We used to know all our neighbors. Never had an issue with them. Everyone respected each other and did the right things. But we used to get trespassers that would park on the road and come in our farm or cut across other farms to get into parts of ours. They always had the same story. "We shot a deer and are just tracking it." I will bet we threw off 2-3 people a year over the years I grew up there, and never once did they ever have a blood trail. Most times they were not even close to or walking a track. Looking for a deer you shot is the standard excuse to get away with trespassing when caught were you don't belong. I think once in all the years I can recall, I had a guy say he got lost and wasn't' sure where he was. He had come out of the swamp and looked a little confused. He was really happy to get headed in the right direction. He was a real good actor or honest.
Then things changed with some property sales and splits. We get line hunters all the time now. Hanging stands on trees right on the fence and shooting over the line. Even had one guy put a blind with the only window in the blind facing us and 6' off the fence. I tell them all that they will not come on unless they call for access and then show me a blood trail coming off their land or some evidence of a hit where they should be hunting. I hate to be difficult, but it gets old year after year putting up with people. I did get one good laugh out of these fence hunters the year the sun came up on opening day of gun season, and I had a guy and his son setting a few hundred yards from me right in plain view of me. They were max. 20 yd. off the fence and setting in tree stands facing me. I thing they were hunting a clearing in our pine screen we planted along our property line. The trees were not so tall yet you couldn't see the deer in the pines, and the deer traveled in there all the time. I watched a nice buck go right behind them on a little hill in an open area of the land they were on. It circles onto our land. By time they saw the buck it was well over the property line and headed my way. They didn't plan on me being where I was and being able to watch everything they were doing. I shot that buck with my muzzle loader while they watched. Then a little later four does came right down the pines and turned and came my way. I shot the largest doe I have ever seen out of that group. All while they watched. They got down and left. The next day the stands were moved.
Last year hunting a little parcel near my town I had two guys wondering all over the woods one morning. One saw me and they took off. No hunting cloths or bows so I thought they were scouting for gun season or something. A couple hours later they showed up again with four more people and tromped all over the place on the adjacent property, which is property only I have permission to hunt. By then I figured they were looking for a deer, but I had only seen one spike that morning and he looked fine. Didn't even see anything wrong when he came past at about 25 yd. One of the new guys said he was on blood and sure enough he traced that spike. The buck had wondered around feeding, checking a scrape and just messing around. He bedded about 50 yd. from me. Even with one guy on a trail the rest wondered all over stinking up all the cover. When they got to me, I found out they had shot it about 250 yd. away and had already trespassed on two other properties to get to me. They didn't ask permission to enter, didn't offer any apology for ending my hunt, and ignored my request to follow the tracker and not wonder all over my beading area. I had seen the buck jump up when they got within 75 yd. of it. He ran out through a clearing onto another property through an open field and looked to be circling back to where he had been when shot. I asked them to follow an old logging trail the buck had used and stay out of the cover, but they ignored me. Knowing they had shot a deer where they belonged and were on blood I bit my tongue and let them go of on their way, but next time I don't think I will be so cooperative given their complete lack of respect for another hunter or other property owners.
The year before last I shot a nice doe the first weekend of bow season. It ran onto a property I have had permission to hunt for 40 years, but due to the number of the owner's family hunting the land, I have not hunted there for the last 10 or so years. I have not seen the owner, who is now about 80, in a couple years. I still called him, but didn't reach him. I then drove over to find him in his barn to make double sure it was still alright to go looking. He laughed at me asking. We talked and caught up a little. Funny thing was he didn't even recognize me when I drove up because I had a beard and different truck. Sure he thought it was funny I would think I needed to ask him, but I bet it wouldn't have started off so funny if he caught a guy he didn't recognized on his land.
So next time you have an issue with someone not letting you on their land, just figure it is not you, but those who messed up in the past. Like SteveB and R. Fletcher said, talk to the property owners before you have an issue, stay off the line, and go ask if you need access. If someone comes to me before the season, tells me they will be hunting next door, will stay off the line, and will call if they need to come looking, they will likely get "just come on over for your deer if you need to and don't bother calling."
No, I have not actually had it happen to me.
Did arrow a buck that crossed onto another land owner's property of which I had been unable to gain permission to hunt...knocked on his door and explained the dilemma and he immediately went with me on an hour search at night to find the buck. He then went walked ~1/4" mi back to the barn to retrieve the mule. Must have taken a couple of hours in all. He was cordial, generous, quite helpful and great company the whole time.
I was still never able to secure permission after sending him a thank you letter and then sending him correspondences thru out the next year in hope of hunting there the following season. The effort was well worth it since I retrieved my buck and made a genuine friend.
Unfortunately, like with everything a few people spoil things for everybody.
Cowpie, I have had the almost exact scenario you described. There is state land behind my neighbors land that borders mine.
He shot a deer that ended up on my land. If I did not let him retrieve the deer he would have to drag the deer about three quarters of a mile through the swamp to get it out.
Altho it ruined my hunting in that section and it was the last day of the season, I think it was the right thing to do. You reap what you sow. Who knows what favor I may need down the road?
I have never had this happen, but i can tell you for a fact, that permision or not, i WOULD get my deer. Leaving it to rot is most definatley the bigger sin in my eyes.
I've been told no...twice. By to separate people.
Not much you can do.
Thankfully I've not come across a situation where I needed to ask permission yet. A couple of times I had to cross property boundaries but had a relationship with the owners which allowed me to do so.
I have had hunters cross onto my property looking for a deer without first asking permission and they were highly suspect, and much unappreciated. For the life of me though, I can't understand not giving permission to a guy that asks.
Like was mentioned previously, I've had my share of fence hunters but thankfully I haven't had them shoot anything (at least that I'm aware of) ... but I will go WAY out of my way to make sure a fence hunter is dissatisfied with his choice of stand location. I figure I would do what my grandad did once - retrieve it for them and allow them to pick it up at my house - where a 1st class scolding will be waiting.
I have a good relationship with the flks surrounding the small tract of private land I can hunt. On the Public land I hunt I usually go deep and it had never been an issue.
The biggest problem around my house here is the fellas hunting gobbling turkeys on my side of the line.RC
I am not sure how current this is but this is most states on the subject. I posted Kansas because that is where I live.
http://www.enotes.com/everyday-law-encyclopedia/trespassing
http://realestate.findlaw.com/trespassing/select-state-laws-on-trespassing.html
KANSAS: Trespassing is permitted by licensed hunters in order to pursue a wounded game bird or animal, except that if the owner of the land instructs the hunter to leave, the hunter must leave immediately. Any person who fails to leave such land when instructed is subject to the provisions of the criminal trespass law.
QuoteOriginally posted by stevewills:
in indiana you cannot tresspass to retrieve game,if they so no sorry about you luck.if i catch someone tresspassing to retrieve a deer off to jail they go,but if they would make a 2 min.call id be glad to go back and help
Well, people don't go to jail for trespassing most of the time for the 1st instance.
In my state, Arkansas, you're not trespassing unless the trees are painted purple(posting) or there are signs posted around the perimeter. So, you're not trespassing until you're asked to leave and refuse if you cross over the property line where it's unmarked. If it's clearly marked then you're trespassing, but they aren't going to take you to jail for it for doing it once.
QuoteOriginally posted by huskyarcher:
I have never had this happen, but i can tell you for a fact, that permision or not, i WOULD get my deer. Leaving it to rot is most definatley the bigger sin in my eyes.
Exactly. Give me a ticket, cuss at me, I don't care. I'm getting my deer and I ALWAYS carry protection with me.
I won't let anyone tell me I can't claim my deer.
Wanton waste is illegal in Arkansas and I'm not going to let a deer sit out there and rot. I know it won't be entirely wasted because the fauna will consume it, but I'm going to get my deer.
Fortunately our main neighbor is the USDA National Forest. So, no permission required. The others are guys that own the land and don't really ever show up. They MIGHT hunt the property once every four years, but it's just wooded property. Our neighbors on the other side of the river are ranchers and aren't a problem.
In mass, we have a right to recover law. Call the state and an EPO will escort you on the land. There was an article in the paper last year about a woman that didn't let some guy retrieve his deer to teach him a lesson??? Not sure why the Environmental Police weren't contacted
We have a right to recover law in Iowa. The times that it becomes a problem is when the shotgun road hunters try to get on posted land claiming that a wounded deer ran on to the property, quite often they all want to go flush out the deer and just end up conning the land owner into letting them all on his property as an excuse to hunt it. usually when the land owner asked them to show him the blood trail and that only one or two can go in with no guns they say 'never mind' and go on their way, because there was no wounded deer in the first place. I personally do not ask because the land owners would say yes anyway, but if see them out and about I tell them what i am going to be doing.
Communication is vital. Get to know your local police, conservation police, and obviously your neighbors. You don't have to be best friends, but it is infinitly harder to say no to somebody you had coffee with than a voice over the phone. Your goal is to establish a mutual understanding. Remember...some day the neighbor is going to want/need access to your ground for one reason or another as well and they know it.
If your state dosen't have a right to recover provision look into "Wanton Waste" laws. Some states take this very seriously. These laws can be used to your advantage especially when the landower is just going to let the animal rot.
If the land owner says he dosen't want the animal the CO can collect it for you - wanton waste. If the land owner says tey want the deer...then they have to aquire the proper paperwork. Either way it is all on record. If presented properly by the CO the landowner will help you get the deer off their property right now!
Persnally I have every neighbors telephone number in my cell, they have mine, and all vehical's and plate number on our lease.
In a worst case scenerio carefully applied pressure from law enforcement has a way of turning the tide on recovery related issues. It is important to remember that nobody wants to end up in front of a judge, especially oversomething like a recovery issue.
It makes a land owner look REAL bad when they make the local newspaper over something that was easily resolved by being a decent neighbor.
I've never denied anyone permission to track an animal, but my general rule is you leave your weapon at the property line. If a person asks permission, I'll gladly help them track, recover, field dress, and drag out their animal. They can even use my cart if they need one. When it's all done, I'll shake their hand, congratulate them, and probably offer a bite to eat.
On the other hand, if someone decides to come on my land, get an attitude, tell me what he's going to do, and wave his gun in my face...I hope he finds his deer. By the time he drags it out, the game warden will be there to confiscate it and cite him for hunting without permission (that's what trespassing with a weapon gets you here), and the sheriff will be there to arrest him when I press charges for threatening me with a gun.
Be nice and ask, I'll do anything I can to help. Be a jerk, and your day is going to get a lot worse in a hurry.
like someone said earlier ,in Illinois you dont HAVE to let anyone one your property to retrieve game ............... having said that and being a landowner myself I would never turn anyone down with a request to do so ,however I would most likely insist that I need to be present .
One exception would be for the local outlaws that trespass and shoot from trucks and cars and such things ............ BUT they would never ask in the first place ........... but if I catch them I will press charges for trespassing ............. trust me ...... after 16 years they have earned it ..... :bigsmyl:
in indiana you have to post a tree every 100 yds.and everyone has been warned,and everyone knows their property line.so it is criminal if they look for a deer without permission..c.o. told me this last year when someone had trail cameras out on my property,i took the cards and found them poaching a yearling doe..proceeded to smash all cameras and left a note saying this is you next time you tresspass...nothing was done to them...all anyone has to do is make a 2 minute call and ill help them anyway i can,but dont get caught doing it without my permission
QuoteOriginally posted by Rick Perry:
like someone said earlier ,in Illinois you dont HAVE to let anyone one your property to retrieve game ............... having said that and being a landowner myself I would never turn anyone down with a request to do so ,however I would most likely insist that I need to be present .
I have escorted a handful of people off of my dad's place in the mountains. Most people are nice about it and seemingly mistakenly crossed an old downed wire fence on the property.
Here, a lot of forest land used to be farm land that was reclaimed. So, there are old wire fences in the forest. It happens. If they are tracking a deer (blood trail) then I will escort them and get the deer out with a 4 wheeler.
But you have to be careful in that part of the state because of some of the locals. There are some nefarious folks growing weed in the woods and there is sometimes need for making sure you can protect yourself.
Also there are tweakers hunting in the woods. One guy comes to mind that is a neighbor there. He's nuts and have to pay attention. Someone we know mistakenly turned down his drive and he ran out in the night naked running up to them with a gun worried about who it was. Nutty dude.
Just be civil.
I have been shot at when I was a kid on our own property. I don't know who it was, but it really made me mad.
First and only turkey I have pinwheeled, it cut the corner and got on property I don't have permission to be on. I changed into street clothes and politely asked for permission to retrieve my bird and was verbaly accousted, guy must have been a pirate or something, very foul language, he then called the sheriff, said I was trespassing while knocking on the door ! Explained to sheriff what was happening, he then talked to landowner to no avail. Bird went unrecovered not 75yds from where I shot it, New owner at that house now, took them a house warming gift and introduced myself, will not have a retrieval problem there again, Todd
Was helping track a friends wounded buck a few years back that went from state property onto private land and the owner refused to let us onto the property. Not uncommon in IL.
In Mi the DNR cannnot force the landowner to let you recover your animal. On the flip side, if you can see the dead animal the DNR can watch it as it is also illegal to tag a deer you did not kill.
A former DNR officer told me that. He used that warning succesfully to get animals recoverd and couple of times for a poaching ticket.
Bottom line call the DNR, or let it go.
If I were turned down to look for wounded game I would thank them kindly & leave. Then I would wait until 2AM & do what I had to do.
I think TreeRat is right, you can't tag a deer you didn't legally take, so if they won't let you retrieve it in Michigan, they aren't suppose to take it either. I don't see any "Wanton Waste" in Michigan with all the scavengers and predators we have here!
To all the guys that say they would get their deer without permission should know this. Trespassing is a misdemeanor but if you do it with a firearm you are committing a FELONY!
So far, I have never had such an issue. I would definitely ask permission first though.
Here in NY, if a landowner denies you permission to retrieve your deer...your done. We have had Deer Search attend our NYB classes and they related stories where they tracked deer to private property and were denied access.
The tracking stops there. Even if you contact the DEC for help, the landowner holds all the cards. I had one occasion where I was denied, lost a nice 6 pt buck. The landowner was a gun hunter who disliked bowhunters.
I later found out he went and recovered my deer for himself. I believe in Wyoming the Fish&Game have the right to retrieve your game for you no matter what the landowner says.
It's sad that it's gotten so bad. I know when I lived in the Thumb of Michigan city folk would come to the country to hunt waterfowl. They'd track the locals to the fields they went to then the city slickers would hide out in culverts on the side of the roads and wait for the locals to call their birds in the the city guys would cut loose on the ducks and geese. Lots of honest hunters lost permission to hunt fields because of such tomfoolery.
It's also sad that that many people don't have any desire to respect the sacrifice the animal made to the hunter by letting people honestly retrieve their kill. I would have no issue at all leaving my bow or shotgun in my vehicle while I went to look. I'd have nothing to hide.
Pat
QuoteOriginally posted by emt137:
It's sad that it's gotten so bad. I know when I lived in the Thumb of Michigan city folk would come to the country to hunt waterfowl. They'd track the locals to the fields they went to then the city slickers would hide out in culverts on the side of the roads and wait for the locals to call their birds in the the city guys would cut loose on the ducks and geese. Lots of honest hunters lost permission to hunt fields because of such tomfoolery.
It's also sad that that many people don't have any desire to respect the sacrifice the animal made to the hunter by letting people honestly retrieve their kill. I would have no issue at all leaving my bow or shotgun in my vehicle while I went to look. I'd have nothing to hide.
Pat
Well, I have heard that the number of hunters are decreasing. People aren't nearly as outdoors oriented as they used to be. Air conditioning,TV, soda, and video games.
I have run across a large contingent of people that have grown more crazy with their antihunting ideas. People are becoming SO disconnected with tradition and the woods that they fail to recognize that hunting is a very natural part of being human in the most basic sense.
To them, meat comes in styrofoam packages from the store. It's partly due to popular TV culture where the youth have grown up seeing nothing but anthropomorphized animals on TV (those with human traits) and along with it comes lunatics that think that animals should basically be recognized as humans. It's kind of sad to see how people are changing.
They are hypocrites. They love their tasty chicken and beef from the grocery store, just as long as some faceless meat packing worker does the killing.
There are even efforts to end hunting in parts of America. Look at what its done in places like Pennsylvania where areas are off limits to hunting. The deer populations have grown out of control and pose a very serious threat to motor safety.
When I have kids I plan to carry on a tradition of hunting that wasn't passed on to me. I started hunting on my own because when I was young it was an adventure for me. I didn't grow up with a father that new anything about the outdoors. I have taught myself just about everything I know. I taught myself about fishing, fly fishing, fly tying, firearms, bows, hunting, kayaking, etc. It would have been cool if I had someone in my family to do these things with while growing up, but it's not important to a lot of folks, including my family members.
So, it doesn't really surprise me that some people up North refuse to allow hunters to retrieve game and, as mentioned once before in this thread, "Teach the hunter a lesson." There are plenty of scummy people out there with no sense for tradition and hunting. My father and other family members are even like that. They don't care abotu hunting or putting out the effort to do it properly, but they will kill an animal. However, they aren't hunters. It frustrates me to even have to deal with them because I do things properly.
QuoteOriginally posted by SteveB:
QuoteOriginally posted by LeeBishop:
QuoteExactly. Give me a ticket, cuss at me, I don't care. I'm getting my deer and I ALWAYS carry protection with me.
Use your "protection" to recover a deer when denied permission and it won't be fines you are concerned with. [/b]
I'm not saying I'd present a weapon to retrieve a deer. That's stupid.
In the part of the state where I hunt you have to watch out for the criminals that live in the mountains that do so in order to keep their distance from society.
I have been confronted before, even on my own property. In no way should you infer anything other than it's for my own hunting situation.
Some people in that region can be hostile without provocation. They are the true hillbillies of the state. I have even had one of the tweakers show up to berate me for shooting hundreds of rounds. The person was being paranoid and was asked to leave. Was it too loud for him? No. He lives two miles down the road.
I will not hunt without knowing I can retrieve an animal I shoot. If I drop the string and can't recover, there is NO ONE to blame but myself. NYS does not trespass to recover without permission. Landowners rights far surpass any hunters wish to pursue their pasttime uninhibited. Especially when most of the time, all it takes is proper preparation for the hunt. If you get denied prior permission, it is then your burdan to deal with an animal dieing where you can't recover - same as if it went over a cliff, into a river etc.
Lee - I edited my post. Didn't mean to sound confrontational.
Well, as I have said before, most of our border is with the national forest, so retrieving isn't a problem.
I don't see why so many states up North don't allow their game wardens to at least get the animal for you.
I don't really agree with all of the authority game wardens have been given in my state, but some of them are common sense. Here, a game warden can search your vehicle or cargo to check for game if he wants. I don't really agree with that since normal police are required to obtain a search warrant. But here it's unlawful to refuse requests from a game warden to check your gear and check game.
Arkansas prides itself in being the "Natural State" and being hunter friendly. So, they aren't really ones to tolerate wanton waste of our wildlife. If you can't claim your kill due to a land owner then it's wanton waste on the land owner.
Sorry guys I answer to a higher authority. If I have a wounded or dead animal it is my duty/obligation to retrieve that animal,reguardles of the human laws. That being said I am also prepaired to pay any fine or penalty that may occurer.
QuoteOriginally posted by Jmatt1957:
Sorry guys I answer to a higher authority. If I have a wounded or dead animal it is my duty/obligation to retrieve that animal,reguardles of the human laws. That being said I am also prepaired to pay any fine or penalty that may occurer.
I'm with you, fella.
Here in Arkansas it's a $100 fine. Whatever, I won't let a deer sit there and spoil over $100.
Jmatt - isn't it better to get permission before?
You can not trespass on unposted land in Arkansas. The book reads that you have to have verbal permission for unposted land and written permission for posted land. You have to know the rules.
Chris
i put a post on here last year about trespassers and ill say it again,if you dont have enough respect for the deer to spend a few minutes on the phone to gain permission to my property,you shouldnt be in the woods..people around here dont mess around,theyll shoot ya...people come up missing all the time...
Or enough respect for the landowners and his/her rights to still trespass. There is no place for that behavior, regardless of your feelings for losing the animal you shot. Like it or not, you are obligated by law and by "higher authority" to respect the wishes of those who OWN and have PAID money for their property. I have been a landowner and let me tell you nothing is more disrespectful than to ignore and discount the wishes of the landowner. It IS our duty and obligation to respect their wishes no matter our own feelings/desires.
Joshua
You can not trespass on unposted land in Arkansas. The book reads that you have to have verbal permission for unposted land and written permission for posted land. You have to know the rules.
Chris
It sounds like there are peeps that just want to hunt,,,and not bother taking the time to introduce yourself to your neighbors before the season begins.
I know it isn't always possible but you certainly can after hunting hours or in the off season. As I said before it is infinity harder to say no to somebody that you know than someone you don't or a voice on the phone. Whomever you got permission from can certainly help make the arrangements. If it's your ground...it should be easier.
We might even have some fence sitters...fence sitters have a tough time because they irritate the neighbors in many different ways. Are they legal...ya...but politically fence sitting is a bad move. Quite often fence sitters shoot onto the neighbors property, then ask for permission to retrieve "their" deer.
Fences, respect and communication make great neighbors.
yep, had a deer shot from public to private, asked permission and property owner said nope. I then asked why they are willing to let a downed deer rote? He said it wouldn't they would get it and am tired of people tromping across there property. I told him thank you and can understand where he is coming from, would get real old. So later that month, I shot another doe and took few pounds of meat back to the house where they wouldn't let me get the deer, after I gave the guy the meat he about cried and said I could track or get a deer off there place from then on, the next week gave them a whole doe (he lost his job and they had 3 kids and times was getting tight). One other time that really stands out, is I shot a nice buck (not the biggest), it went on private property of a couple who are well known for saying know. I asked and the guy and son asked if a doe or buck I said buck and they said nope and closed the door. I started to turn then it hit me, they wanted the rack (there was a real nice booner around there). I knocked on door and asked if I took the meat they could have the rack. They agreed, which I have to admit kinda turned my tummy, that they just wanted the rack, so in honor of the animal I took the meat to fullfill my obligation. I understand how property owners and get all kinds of people who spoil it for us, it is there property, the laws in illinois changed to protect there property. One thing I started to do which seems to work, is as I drive around in the summer, I stop and talk with the people, then they see me as a person instead of a one time camo user.
ill let anyone get there deer if they call but,the cops and co has been out here enough that if someone is tresspassing they dont get cited they go to jail.we had a neighbor teenager cut some vines off our property then told his dad,dad loaded him up brought him to the house and ask what we should do with him...i said nothing,he was pretty embarressed,that was good enough...but my approach on tresspassers is working,and i told all my neighbors,you can get your deer,call first ill meat up with you and help you get the deer.....
there is no doubt that we have all seen pics in the deer magazines and books of big bucks that were retrieved from posted property illegally .
The bigger the antlers the more likely the hero hunter is to "justify" breaking the law by trespassing . Putting a stand on a property line when you know you can not legally cross the fence if the wounded animal decides to run that direction is unethical IMHO.
Its a real shame to lose an animal . But in todays bowhunting world property lines must be respected . 30 years ago in Illinois you never heard of this problem . the lust for trophy bucks ,leasing , and dreams of "trophy management" have led us to this.
:dunno:
QuoteOriginally posted by grriflesemail:
You can not trespass on unposted land in Arkansas. The book reads that you have to have verbal permission for unposted land and written permission for posted land. You have to know the rules.
Chris
You have to get permission to "hunt" property.
Here is what the trespassing statute says.
"(a) (1) A person shall not enter without written permission of the owner or lessee upon another person's land located outside the boundary of any city or town if that land is either:
(A) Lawfully posted;
(B) Crop land; or
(C) Enclosed with a fence sufficient under 2-39-101 et seq.
(2) The posting of land is not a requirement under this section."
If there is a defined fence then it's sufficient that it's "posted." However, if you're in some of the public forests in Arkansas then you will know that there still may be old fences in the woods from old farms that were later bought by the state or feds to add to the forest.
On our property we went around the perimeter and painted the treeline in purple paint to "post" the land.
It has not happend to me but it almost did. It was back in college, and I shot a very big doe. The doe ran into an open field and died right there. The lady who owned the property was known for not liking people hunting on the property next to her...even though it was public land. I went and asked her if I could get the deer and she promptly said no, and began to shut the door on me. I told her that it was laying in plain site in her field. She told me to go ahead and get it, only because it was in plain sight, but never to bother her with this sort of thing again.
I have to admit, that after that incident, the thought crossed my mind, that if I shot another one, and it ran into her property, I was just going to go get it anyway without asking her. I know this is not right, but I would be lying if I said it did not cross my mind. Luckily for me, I have never again been in this situation.
I think Jon makes a good point. I think we all have had moments of doubt about the right thing to do in our lives. But just think how our actions as individuals affect the perception of our sport and hunting and hunters in general. Going around and sneaking onto another's property when you know access has been denied is not exactly how honest folks operate.
As I mentioned earlier, as a landowner nothing turns you off more to allowing access than knowing someone is going to go onto your property anyway. We had this happen to us. And it only mattered to them what we thought or did one month out of the year. All the rest of the time we might as well have been invisable.
I am impressed with those that put their own feelings regarding recovery aside and made the noble gesture. They were/are great ambassadors for our sport. I for one take a lot of inspiration from them in my own struggles to do what is "right".
Joshua
some of the places I bow hunt are so deep an far away from everything I would not even know who to call no disrespect to anyone but if I am in the middle of nowhere an the only thing keeping me from getting my deer is a notresspassing sign I will take my chances.I think shooting a deer an leaveing it lay is 10 times worse then tresspassing.some of the other places I hunt there would be access to people who I could ask premission an I would do so.other times I may hunt at a friends place an I would do what ever he would be o.k with I would not want to cause any problems for him.for me it just all depends on the situation
Plumber
You can go get maps and photo's at the county and/or township in your hunting areas. You can get the names and addresses of the owners. Now you can even get that info on the net in most places. Then contact them ahead of the hunt or when you need to access for getting an animal. The first thing I do when hunting a new area is hunting research and that is more than the lay of the land.
QuoteOriginally posted by Jmatt1957:
Sorry guys I answer to a higher authority. If I have a wounded or dead animal it is my duty/obligation to retrieve that animal,reguardles of the human laws. That being said I am also prepaired to pay any fine or penalty that may occurer.
what higher authority are you talking about, and where do I read up on that? :)
You will be suprised how many places you have permission on to track/retrieve disapear when a big buck is involved.
In my case I had always been allowed to track retrieve there until a big one piled up there.
I was on property owned by my inlaws it's basicaly an island of woods surounded by agriculture fields. in fact the neighbors land where I was denied access to retrieve had a total of 2 trees on it. The rest was fields and a fencerow that was well maintained (tree/brush) free. Of course he was hunting right on the property line! I still can't believe that buck ran out in that picked field though as he was about 75 yards into the woods when shot.
It sucked but there's absolutely nothing I could do about it.
On my land in Arkansas it does not matter. Has a fence, purple paint markings and they still come on it. If not the neighbors it is those comming down the river in a boat. I put up a big box stand beside the fence line back when I hunted with a gun and had the neighbor come in the week deer season opened and put one right up beside mine on his side. Opening morning we sat in our respective stands and talked back and forth. I might add he has 500 acres of pasture with cows on it and my land next to his is 500 acres of woods. He was definitely planning on hunting off of me. After a couple of hours I got down, went back to the house, got the Dozier, came back and cut a right of way 100 yards over on my property about 50ft wide 200yds. long and moved my stand over there. Imagine his surprise when I killed a 7 point out of it that afternoon. To this date his stand is in the same place and so is mine. He did go in and fence off about 2 acres on his to keep the cows out and planted a food plot. Crazy deer go over there and he shoots a few every year. I don't gun hunt anymore and my younger brother goes to that stand every year and has to deal with him. All that being said he does come onto my property. The only evidence we have is part of his britches as he jumped the fence one day when my brother slipped up on him.
QuoteOriginally posted by Lowrider:
On my land in Arkansas...had the neighbor come in... All that being said he does come onto my property. The only evidence we have is part of his britches as he jumped the fence one day when my brother slipped up on him.
I'd set up a trail camera and get photos of him doing it then. The man has 500 acres. He's bound to have plenty of places to hunt. We only have a little over half of that and I have put up seven stands.
I have not had that problem yet fortunatly...
HOWEVER,if I do...I WON'T ASK. try not to hold
it against me fellow TradGangers,but depending on the time,which way it went,etc. I will sneak in then or crack o' dawn the next day. Covert military style. If I get caught,I will deal with
that situation at that time. I am a landowner. I would give permission. But what I don't know don't hurt me. There could be someone on our land
right now. But NO WAY would I put my deer in jeopardy because someone says no. I'd take my
chances fellas'
Lee he does have 500 acres but it is all pasture. The only place he has a stand on the whole place is the two or so acres he fenced off and planted a food plot next to my woods. He does have my permission to come and get a deer if it is shot and comes over there. I feel I am being mighty genereous and he and his children/grandchildren are taking advantage. I although am like most here. I am not going to be so dogmatic as to allow a deer to lay there and spoil. Not only that but we have 160 acres up the road from that property that we flood to duck hunt. I turned the pump on Aug. 15th to flood it and am still pumping water. Go to all of this trouble and expense to find shells in my blinds where it was hunted when I wasn't there. Living In Lousiana and the property being 70 miles away it is hard to be there when they are. The Game Warden has a key to both places and it is my hope they will cross paths one day.
QuoteOriginally posted by Lowrider:
Lee he does have 500 acres but it is all pasture. The only place he has a stand on the whole place is the two or so acres he fenced off and planted a food plot next to my woods. He does have my permission to come and get a deer if it is shot and comes over there. I feel I am being mighty genereous and he and his children/grandchildren are taking advantage. I although am like most here. I am not going to be so dogmatic as to allow a deer to lay there and spoil. Not only that but we have 160 acres up the road from that property that we flood to duck hunt. I turned the pump on Aug. 15th to flood it and am still pumping water. Go to all of this trouble and expense to find shells in my blinds where it was hunted when I wasn't there. Living In Lousiana and the property being 70 miles away it is hard to be there when they are. The Game Warden has a key to both places and it is my hope they will cross paths one day.
Well Sir, I will probably be moving back down to the Delta soon while I work on this Ben Pearson documentary film.
I would be more than happy to check in every once in a while and make sure things look OK :wavey: