I have owned a Seat O the Pants safety harness for several years and until recently, I have been very happy with it. I have noticed lately that the buckle has been coming loose, somtimes almost coming completely undone while climbing and hunting! :scared: The design of my harness buckle is a simple "though and back" cinch design.
I contacted SOP by email and they no longer make this style of harness, so they could not repair/replace my harness buckle. The company offered me 40% off a new harness system. My response to them was that I had no intention of paying 60% to replace a harness which had a faulty design (their issue- not mine), that I didn't want to spend any more money with their company if they don't stand behind their product(s) and that I was very disappointed in them.
You would think that a company designing something as important as a safety harness would make reparations IMMEDIATELY when they are informed that their product is not working correctly, and could cause serious injury to their customer(s).
Thanks for letting me vent! My advice to all you Tradgangers is to spend your hard earned money on some other safety harness system.
Don't take this the wrong way but you said you have used this for "several years". I take that to mean more than 3 or 4 years. My guess is that the design isn't bad but you just wore out the buckle on it. A 40% discount on new one seems pretty fair to me. Had your harness been new or just a couple years old then I would agree with you.
I may have the same type of harness. The buckle is two rectangular shaped coated metal pieces. You turn one sideways and slide through the other and turn square to cinch down. Is this your type? If so the buckle can not wear out as Lechwe suggests. I have not had a problem but if this is the same style I will keep a close eye on mine.
i thought all full body harnesses have a 5 year expiration date on them anyway...and then they should be replaced.
What Lechwe said.
It's a plastic buckle and maybe it has begun to show it's age. It looks the same to me as it always has, no apparent effects of aging. As far as a five year expiration, I don't remember ever seeing that in my owners manual. I'll do some checking on that. Maybe I'm off base, but it seems to me that provided that a person takes proper care of their harness I.E., storing it indoors during the off season and the harness hasn't sustained any appreciable stress like a fall, the harness shouldn't expire in five years.
Thanks for your thoughts.
If it were me I'd just fix it myself and keep hunting. The prices they charge for them things is outrageous and then they say they expire in 5 yrs?? Gimme a break! I use one That was included with a wal mart lock on stand!
TIM B
Sorry but when it comes to safety equipment I don't like the word cheap in the same sentence. I know their expensive, but what value do you place on life and limb. As far as standing behind the product 4 years on a plastic part is a lot of wear. They can only warranty something for so long, and 40% off a new one seems fair. No offence just my opinion.
No direspect intended. But everything wears out sometime. ... I would like to think my truck will last me the rest of my life?? But it ain't going too..... they make some really nice safty buckles that you might like even better then the original that you could put on it.. and 40% off?? I am betting that they would be making 0% profit from sellin you a new one??
Okay, brother Tradgangers. I guess I am off base on this one! No offense taken. For me, I think and buckle should last. This safety harness is really solid, I mean looks like new. To me, it's a shame to have to shell out a bunch of cash to buy a new harness just because the makers didn't design a buckle to last.
String Cutter, I don't expect it to last forever, but 10 years is not out of the realm of possibilities. My truck is a 2000 with 128,000. I keep up on the service, so I expect it to go at least 200,000. I guess we shall see. :pray: :pray:
Go to a local outdoor shop that specializes in rock climbing gear and see if they have a buckle that will suit your needs. If its sewn on it can be fixed for cheap by someone who specializes in this--no big deal.
Question.
Any chance at some point the buckle came off the harness and you put it back on? Some of those slip joint buckles will go on so they look correct but they won't hold.
Thanks for the heads up on that product.Safty is the most important thing.I think you had quality in mind when you bought it so it sounds like it let you down And i can understand that.I have the same kind of thinking as you if you buy a cadillac you expect it be the best.Keep me posted when you find the real deal.Thanks
push the strap thru, then tie a quick single pass knot in it and it won't go anywhere. Mine has done that a few times, it is well worn.
ChuckC
I am sure these companies have to pay an arm and a leg for insurance, hence they pass it on.
On the HSS, Rastaman is correct 5 years!
Harness as expired. Throw it out
Harness as expired. Throw it out
Long Bow fanatic - they do have an expiration date. I just replaced my SOP harness. It was out of date.
Industry standards on industrial harnesses in the manufacturing world are 5 years, whether you use it one day or every day, still 5 years. And it is destroyed, not tossed away.
It bites, but those things do have a life expectancy.
Good luck this season. Stay safe.
Billy
Is the reason they expire because of the plastic buckles? I don't remember any expiration on mine and it has no plastic on it.
QuoteOriginally posted by Flingblade:
Is the reason they expire because of the plastic buckles? I don't remember any expiration on mine and it has no plastic on it.
It's because of general material degradation. Dust, dirt, sand etc... gets into the fibers of the harness & into the stitching & begins to abrade them, possibly harming their integrity & weakening the straps.
UV light can & will begin to break down the strength of any nylon, polypropylene or polyethylene fibers, including the buckles.
I'm 99.999% sure that a harnes that is 20 years old would be safe to use, if it hasn't taken a fall, but the manufacturers need to account for a very large safety margin. Imagine the furore if, say, an HSS harness failed. It would probably bankrupt the business overnight.
Bear in mind these harnesses are designed to save your life. Not minimise risk, not make you
feel safe, but actually stop a 300lb person from falling & dying. That's a hell of a lot to ask from a few nylon straps & buckles.
Yes the good harnesses are expensive, but do you really, honestly want to trust your life t the lowest bidder? I sure as shoot don't.
QuoteOriginally posted by robtattoo:
QuoteOriginally posted by Flingblade:
Is the reason they expire because of the plastic buckles? I don't remember any expiration on mine and it has no plastic on it.
It's because of general material degradation. Dust, dirt, sand etc... gets into the fibers of the harness & into the stitching & begins to abrade them, possibly harming their integrity & weakening the straps.
UV light can & will begin to break down the strength of any nylon, polypropylene or polyethylene fibers, including the buckles.
I'm 99.999% sure that a harnes that is 20 years old would be safe to use, if it hasn't taken a fall, but the manufacturers need to account for a very large safety margin. Imagine the furore if, say, an HSS harness failed. It would probably bankrupt the business overnight.
Bear in mind these harnesses are designed to save your life. Not minimise risk, not make you feel safe, but actually stop a 300lb person from falling & dying. That's a hell of a lot to ask from a few nylon straps & buckles.
Yes the good harnesses are expensive, but do you really, honestly want to trust your life t the lowest bidder? I sure as shoot don't. [/b]
Child safety seats also expire..
I'd wonder why seatbelts don't wear out. They stop a 300lb person travelling a heck of a lot faster than any treestand fall and yet they don't fail. They are used repeatedly day after day. They are exposed to sunlight and extreme temps year after year. How many times a year do you actually click in to your safety harness... thirty times? maybe? So in five years time you have clicked in and out of your harness at most 150 times? If the least bit of quality material was used in it's construction it should not even be close to broke in at 150 uses, and sure shouldn't be anywhere near wore out.
Having an expiration because you're afraid of liability is one thing. Actually building a product that expires is something totally different.
Good point Molson, we aren't tearing the seat belts out of our vehicles every five years?? It is what it is, but the five year expiration thing seems to be major overkill.
I lean a little toward Molson's view on this, but at the same time want to be as safe as I can. God knows in my early years in the trees I was not and he spared me even though I was Stupid with a capital "S" !!!
In my humble opinion the reason for the shelf life statement in the lit that comes with a harness is a CYA for the companies and laywers of those companies. We need to use common sense and inspect our harness each year and as long as the stitching and material are in good shape and not been worn while sunbathing on a beach then you are good to go another year. The #1 reason that shelf life statement is in there in my humble opinion once again, is the almighty $$$$'s these companies seperate from us to them !!!
Uncle Robbie....... you say you do not want to trust your life to the lowest bidder..... NASA does on every contract every day, haha !!! I think that was a quote by the great Gene Crantz ??? :scared:
One more thing while I am on my high horse this morning..... The worst harness there is IMHO again, is the older ones that would stop a large truck going 60MPH but were never worn cause they were too D**** heavy and left in the large truck !!! That is the reason I never wore one years ago till we found something sensible like the Summit SOP's we wear now.
I noticed this year there are lots of newer ones available that are much better and lighter than previous years. The #1 marketing blurb for them is how, " lightweight ", they are. Find a good one that fits your budget and one that you WILL wear and stay safe my friends ! :readit:
The reason that safety harness have a expiration date is the same reason the climbing harness have 5 year expiration, I has nothing to do with the harness wearing out is due the safety aspect of the stitching.
just my two cent worth Casper
I use a professional body harness/fall arrest system. Bieng an electrician, I need one at work, so if it is good enough to save my life there, it is good enough when I'm in a tree. You can Google them up and see the difference. Yes, they are expensive, some over $300, but what is your life worth? The one for work was provided to me by the employer, but my hunting one, I purchased just for hunting. I need to have 100% faith in my PPE (personal protective equipment), my life and family depend on it.
Before you pruchase or use a Full Body Harness or Treestand go to the Treestand Manfactures Assn. website and check out their information.
www.tmastands.com (http://www.tmastands.com)
They have a list of approved FBHs and Treestands that they test. Their testing is very rigirous and they take their testing to the limit.
All products that have the TMA logo on it are the best and safest on the market.
Their website will answer alot of the questions that have been brought up on this thread. Check it out, and you will be suprised at the info they have.
Hunt safe.
JAG/Johnny
Quoteuse a professional body harness/fall arrest system. Bieng an electrician, I need one at work, so if it is good enough to save my life there, it is good enough when I'm in a tree.
I was going to mention the same thing(am a lineman)most of the ones I see that come with tree stands are a joke. Even if the thing holds up and stops your fall what most people don't realize is when you free fall and hit the end of 6' lanyard if it isn't designed to give or stretch that alone can kill you or break your back.
We attach our tether high on the tree so that when we sit it has no slack in it. If I do fall I want the tether as high as possible so I do not free fall far. This also helps to insure you can get back on the stand after a fall. Our SOP's have three tear away loops sewn in to help dampen the free fall part. I do realize the professional harnesses used by tradesman are in a different league of their own and far superior to a treestand harness.
www.tmastands.com (http://www.tmastands.com)
Says it all.
I don't want to turn this into a "the sky is falling" thread, but after taking safety training for nearly 2 decades, and knowing people who have fallen and gotten seriously hurt, why would anyone who questions the integrity of a safety harness not want to replace it? This is your life here, and the impact that it can cause you and your family is immeasurable. Broken limbs, broken back, paralysis, head trauma, and death are all viable options. Not to mention the loss of earning potential for your family as well. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
A plastic buckle on somethin that sposed to keep me in the air?
I'm just sayin.....
Five point racing harnesses used in all forms of race cars have expiries too (Five years is the max expiry you'll see from any company in that field). It has more to do with degradation of stitching material, etc., then anything. Even if the race harness just sat in it's original packaging for the five years, it's considered expired.
I think the company's offer sounds fair, but that's just me. Regardless, buy a new harness from somewhere, it's not worth the risk.
Here is the website for Seat-O-the Pants. If their harnesses expire in 5 years, I couldn't find it on their web page. You would think that the manufacturer would post something pertaining to the expiration of their harnesses, if in fact they do expire in 5 years. That is kind of important information...don't you think?
Great advice to check out TMA. I checked that site out yesterday too.
Longbowben recently posted this link on his safety harness post, so I thought I would re-post the link. I am going to buy a Rescue One CDS. These harnesses can be used and re-used. Thanks for the tip on this harness Longbowben!
This is worth watching.
http://www.summitstands.com/hunting-ground-blinds
Here is the Rescue One CDS link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K33QyuCu1w&feature=player_embedded
I am amazed, they have a harness to save your life and it is not working right and they don't want it back so they can replace it. Can you imagine what a law suit would cost them. I have one and will check it. It's a piece of equipment we trust our life with it better not fail I don't care how old it is. Can you imagine them saying your seat belt in your car does not work and you know how many times it get's used. This is serious, you talked to the wrong person, they should be freaking out.
The reason the plastic buckle slips loose is not the buckle- it's the strap texture/weave wearing out (becoming slick/smoother)so as not to give enough friction to hold. (hence the 5-year life recommendation). I have the original SOP harness w/plastic buckles (12+ years old). Mine still works fine, so I use it -if it didn't I wouldn't use it.
I have seen another (SOP-licensed?? -identical)version with a slicker weave/belt (it came with my brother's Summit treestand) that was DANGEROUS, because it was brand new and wouldn't hold. I packed up the stand/harness unused and got a refund - simply not worth it.
SOP doesn't use plastic buckles anymore because they aren't as strong as what OSHA/TMA would recommend (5000#) (ie. legal reasons - the same reason they won't admit there is a "problem" with their original harness, because if they do admit, they are more liable). However, the original SOP was one of the better designed full-body harnesses at that time.
Harnesses aren't designed to keep you from getting hurt (you're going to be hurt in a serious fall), they are designed to keep you from getting killed, most are anyway. The SOP really needs a chest strap to keep the shoulder straps on your shoulders in a forward fall - with that improvement (I made one for mine) they would be much more likely to keep you alive in a forward fall. Without it, the straps come off your shoulders as you fall head first to the ground, while your harness is peeled off you like a banana -you're dead.
83% of those falling 11 feet or more, die. A single medical deductible/copay will cost more than a harness. Our loved ones would gladly pay the price of a harness to have us back alive - buy a well designed one and hunt safe.
Thats the most sound advice I've heard.
I agree with HB3. I purchased a used harness/saddle type product a few years back. It too had a plastic buckle that I discovered was damaged when I received it. After contacting the company they were more than helpful. They quickly exchanged my item with new more advanced model and did not ask for a dime even though I purchased it used!
The gent who designed/invented SOP sold it to I guess it was Summit. He still comes along to the Harrisburg Sport Show. Always enjoy talking to him.
I noted some years back the double metal buckle and slip thru-twist arrangement that replaced the plastic buckles.
Larger companies like Summit have huge liability problems and risks, so their team of Legal-Beagles up the Anti and make everything as near idiot-proof as possible.
Taking back a lightly used harness to refurb with new hardware would be the same as assuring the integrity of the older style material. They don't know it wasn't stored in a sun-baked locker and ready to fall apart...to test it again would subject it to more stress and if it ever failed, it'd by a huge claim in the making.
These companies are up against the liberal trial lawyers and the people who let folks claim horrific damages for being stupid...so companies protect themselves in what seems "user-un-friendly" ways.
Silent Slide is a company that makes a simple safety belt. He also comes to Harrisburg adn has some intriguing research literature he shares on the effects of full body harnesses that refuted some of the 5pt harness safety claims...but echo what Coilspring espoused above! They're designed to keep you from hitting the ground...not designed to prevent injury...
I had a chest-only harness once and came out of a tree with it when a climber came apart... (operator error). I had read you have 3 min before chest compressions will make you pass out.
I said a prayer, made a plan and got out of a fix... but I was one shaky boy till it was over, both from nerves and from exhaustion. Thankfully that was 20 yrs ago and I was a lot younger/stronger.
Never trust a harness to save you. You're head is better, but the harness is great back up!
I've been using the HSS vest system. Its much easier to put on, less tangling or twisting of staps in the dark. I wear it underneath my ASAT leafy suit with no problems and it sure makes me more comfortable using a climber. I dont climb without it. For years up until just recently I still used a single strap around my mid section.
Finally got with the program, and threw all those old ones out.
SOP or HSS are in my opinion some of the best ones out there. Nothing lasts forever.If its looking like its not working right, buy a new one. They're about the same cost as a good dozen arrows. And we all know we don't skimp on those.