Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: bolo7735 on September 15, 2011, 09:11:00 AM
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The reason why I am asking is I am currently shooting a Samick Sage 30lb. After a month of shooting I decided to move up to 45lb. I purchased FMJ 31" with 75gr insert and 125 grain tip. These arrows weigh roughly 540gr total. Shot some arrows yesterday and notice the arrows started to drop after 25 yards. Anything under 25 yards the arrow shoots pretty flat. My question is, do you guys shoot higher poundage bows to maintain flatter arrow flight? I am not use to seeing the arrows drop like that since switching over from compound. Is it wrong to try to make the arrow fly flat out to 30-40 yards?
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Both of my bows are 45#. My hunting arrows are 535 grains and I use 2 blade,single bevel broadheads that I sharpened VERY SHARP.
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Bottom line...you aren't going to shoot as flat with trad as you do with the wheels. I shoot a 55# recurve. In a sense a higher #'age bow would shoot flatter at longer distances. With that being said you can learn to shoot out to 30+ you just need to "calibrate" yourself to that distance. Don't focus so much on the flatness of the arrow but more on a sharp BH and placing it where it needs to go. But, I shot my first archery deer with a 45# recurve. The only reason I shoot a higher #'age is because I can do it accuratley and consistantly.
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49-52 for me. 52 early in the season when hot. 49 late when cold.
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I hunt with a few longbows. I have a 30 inch draw and hunt from 54 to 50 pounds depending on the bow. My arrows are around 570 grains for hunting and lots of 590 grain stumpers. I use a 2 blade head as well, this year I mostly will be using 125 ace standard.
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Most trad bowhunters take their shots at 20 yards and under. A few take them at 25 yards and under.
I've been trad bowhunting since 1964 and I've never taken a shot beyond 22 yards. Most of my shots at game are broadside lung shots between 12-17 yards now.
As for poundage, I bowhunt with the poundage you see in my signature. With these low bow poundages, I have no problems killing and recovering deer, javelina and small feral hogs.
BTW, the most poundage I ever bowhunted with was when I was much younger and my recurve bow then was 44#.
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48lb @ 27in is what i shoot. i practice out to about 30 or so yards. My hunting shots are usually under 20 yards.
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I guess it is normal to have arrow drop pass 20-25 yards. So if you are trying to shoot instinctively, what reference do you guys use to aim out to 30 or 40 yards? Do you practice enough where it become subconsciously like I do for 15-20 yards? Sorry for the newbie questions.
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60 to 65 with 61 being the one generally grabbed as the go to.
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To answer your question you need to know your releastic objectives.
**Make sure to place the effective hunting range as priority over the long target desires.
For the majority, deer hunting is a 20 yard and under game and for turkeys it is a 15 yard and under game. Sure - there are exceptions.
Perosnally, I shoot 51 to 55#'s as matter of personal preference. My set-ups are flat out to 25 yards, but then I am challenged somewhat beyond that since I run out of site window due to a hi anchor.
We must choose and balance the set-up such that we are most accurate w/i our effective hunting range and utilize a set-up that will deliver more than just minimal lethality.
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I shoot 45 lbs at 28 inch and acturla draw is 28 1/2 inch or 46 lbs...
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Originally posted by bolo7735:
I guess it is normal to have arrow drop pass 20-25 yards. So if you are trying to shoot instinctively, what reference do you guys use to aim out to 30 or 40 yards? Do you practice enough where it become subconsciously like I do for 15-20 yards? Sorry for the newbie questions.
Yes, as stated though hunting I shoot max 25 yds and that has to be perfect conditions for that shot. I practice at 30-40 though. Shooting instincively I still look at what I am shooting at but, after practicing at that distance I make the needed adjustments. My mind is the range finder and my eyes are my sights. For me I group about 8" at 35 yards. so when I hunt my shots are roughly 20-25 or closer so I know I am good to go.
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All my bow are in the 48 to 51 range. Its
worked well for me.
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I will be hunting 43# this fall.
Personally, I don't plan on taking a shot with trad gear over 15 yards on game, but I practice out to 25yards. Yes, there is a definite trajectory difference vs. a compound. Watching that and practicing that is part of the fun to me.
Thousands of deer have fallen to 45# bows and less over the millenium.
If I were ever to hunt large hogs or other larger game I would work up in weight.
I am shooting the 43# well right now and it will do the trick so that's what I am going with.
Next year I may try to go higher, I may not. I have shoulder issues. Shoot what you can consistently put on the mark.
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Originally posted by KodiakMag:
Originally posted by bolo7735:
I guess it is normal to have arrow drop pass 20-25 yards. So if you are trying to shoot instinctively, what reference do you guys use to aim out to 30 or 40 yards? Do you practice enough where it become subconsciously like I do for 15-20 yards? Sorry for the newbie questions.
Yes, as stated though hunting I shoot max 25 yds and that has to be perfect conditions for that shot. I practice at 30-40 though. Shooting instincively I still look at what I am shooting at but, after practicing at that distance I make the needed adjustments. My mind is the range finder and my eyes are my sights. For me I group about 8" at 35 yards. so when I hunt my shots are roughly 20-25 or closer so I know I am good to go. [/b]
That is basically what I am working on, shooting 30-40 yards for practice to sharpen my shooting skills. I am a new hunter. I only taken down 2 hogs this year but on compound. Both under 20 yards. With the compound being so fast I never notice a arrow drop unless I am shooting pass 50 yards plus. This recurve is all new to me. I would not take a shot if I do not feel confident it will be a kill shot.
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The further it flies the harder it will be to find. My shots on game are anywhere from a few feet to maybe 20 yards at the outside. My last kill was an Elk at 8 feet. 50# is plenty for just about anything. 45# is ideal.
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50# recurve with 477gr arrow. I limit my shots to 20yds and under.
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Originally posted by bolo7735:
Originally posted by KodiakMag:
Originally posted by bolo7735:
I guess it is normal to have arrow drop pass 20-25 yards. So if you are trying to shoot instinctively, what reference do you guys use to aim out to 30 or 40 yards? Do you practice enough where it become subconsciously like I do for 15-20 yards? Sorry for the newbie questions.
Yes, as stated though hunting I shoot max 25 yds and that has to be perfect conditions for that shot. I practice at 30-40 though. Shooting instincively I still look at what I am shooting at but, after practicing at that distance I make the needed adjustments. My mind is the range finder and my eyes are my sights. For me I group about 8" at 35 yards. so when I hunt my shots are roughly 20-25 or closer so I know I am good to go. [/b]
That is basically what I am working on, shooting 30-40 yards for practice to sharpen my shooting skills. I am a new hunter. I only taken down 2 hogs this year but on compound. Both under 20 yards. With the compound being so fast I never notice a arrow drop unless I am shooting pass 50 yards plus. This recurve is all new to me. I would not take a shot if I do not feel confident it will be a kill shot. [/b]
Then you are on the right track. Practice drawing and letting down too, don't feel like you have to shoot all the time. We don't have let off and forcing to hold at full draw will screw you up. To me 6" groups at 20 yds is sufficient for deer, the lungs are a big target. However, I feel much better when I get sub 4" groups at 20 (good thing I've shot all summer :) ). Confidence is a game winner or loser.
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I shoot 50# @ my draw length with arrows that weigh 517gr. Even my arrows start to have more drop out past 25yds. But, I NEVER TRY TO SHOOT AN ANIMAL AT THAT DISTANCE!!!! My, and probably most experienced trad hunter, normal hunting shot is somewhere around 10-15yds.
Bisch
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Originally posted by Bjorn:
The further it flies the harder it will be to find. My shots on game are anywhere from a few feet to maybe 20 yards at the outside. My last kill was an Elk at 8 feet. 50# is plenty for just about anything. 45# is ideal.
Reminds me of my deer 2 years ago. 5 ft measured. That was about the hardest shot I've ever made lol.
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Its more a matter of group size than how flat a bow shoots. At about 25 yds I can shoot 8 inch groups 90% of the time so thats my max yardage. At 30 its more like 12 to 14". With compound, pins and peep it was 6" at 40(20 yrs ago). I try to set up to give myself a 15 to 20 yds shot when hunting for more certain chance of making a clean kill.
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When I was a few years younger 85 to 96 pounds. I was hoping to use my 64 pounders this year, but a blown lower rib and a herniated dics in my lower thorax is going push me down to my 52 pound Robertson longbows.
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I shoot 56# to 63#,as for trajectory, there really is no such thing as "flat". All arrows have have a trajectory path,no matter what bow they are shot from. Some are not as extreme as others, especially at short yardage. I have buddy's that shoot wheels and when we shoot together, their arrows drop off rather quickly too. They don't notice it as much because they are looking through a peep sight at pins that have been calibrated for that distance, but if you stand behind them and watch the arrow you will see the drop ( obviously more at longer distances). The challenge of Trad is to be able to calibrate your mind to the tracjectory of your setup regardless of the drop, and do it consistantly.
Rod
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I understand what you are saying I switched again to trad last year. I have to watch my self and expectations. I think the part of trad that I like the most is the arch. I can actually see my arrows again. With shooting almost every day for the past 18 months I am holding a 6 to 8 inch group at 25 yards. After that my eyesight is probably my biggest problem. I have worked up from 48 to 58 lbs and my draw length has increased also about 2.5 inches over the last 18 months. I shoot about 9 grains per lb pull.
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Originally posted by Hard Times:
I shoot 56# to 63#,as for trajectory, there really is no such thing as "flat". All arrows have have a trajectory path,no matter what bow they are shot from. Some are not as extreme as others, especially at short yardage. I have buddy's that shoot wheels and when we shoot together, their arrows drop off rather quickly too. They don't notice it as much because they are looking through a peep sight at pins that have been calibrated for that distance, but if you stand behind them and watch the arrow you will see the drop ( obviously more at longer distances). The challenge of Trad is to be able to calibrate your mind to the tracjectory of your setup regardless of the drop, and do it consistantly.
Rod
I just thought about it and you are correct. The sight corrects the arrow trajectory. That is why I don't notice it so much. I guess I was going about the wrong way as comparing the traditional to the compound arrow flight.
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i shoot 65# and my whisperstik zipps an arrow! as far as distance and trajectory goes i think my arrow drops a good bit past 25 yards (700+ grain arrow) and i shoot a lot at fourty and fifty yards but i wouldn't ever try to kill an animal at that distance.... being close is what bowhunting is all about for me and a stick bow takes it to another level.
killed two year last year. one at 4 and the other at 7 yards.
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For me it's a 50# long bow and 623 grain arrows. My prefered range is 12-23 yards. For elk, its out to about 30 yards. Most trad bows have a sharp change in trajectory past 25-30 yards. In shooting farther it just takes a higher familiarity with your setup and practice.
I digress, but it you are a deer hunter 10-20 yards is realistiic, and maybe out to 30 if you are good. I have a 45# Tomahawk long bow that shoots just as fast as my 50#. 45# is great!!
If i could pick one poundage for all game for the rest of my life, it would be 45. Use a very sharp broadhead though--I love 2 blade stingers, zwickeys, and zephyrs.--Happy hunting.
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I'm 64 years old and shoot a 61# Recurve w/585gr. arrows,Snuffer heads. I prefer 20-25 yd shots but have a much further effective range .
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75#-90#@28" w/700+ grain wood arrows that fly flat to 30 yards. Plenty admire your effort to 45#. Bunch of good help here. Good hunting.
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I currently shoot a 57# at 28" MAII---2117 arrows cut to 29 1/4" to BOP,fletched with three 5 inch feathers and tipped with 4-blade Zwickey Deltas. I use a Jo-Jan or multi-fletcher and full helical setting. I use a parabolic cut which I burn on my Young Trimmer and they are a little higher than the "chopper" cuts. I shot one of these arrows completely through a 298 pound mulie cutting ribs on both sides and using this same bow.
Joe
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47-59 lbs
Depending on the kind of hunting I'm doing
I use Stingers and Snuffers.
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44-65lbs depending on my mood.....mainly to change my luck!
:^)
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Glenn
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If you can easily handle more, increase your weight and don't stop simply because you hit some average sufficient weight. There is a definate advantage with shooting heavier weight bows. But keep in mind there is a tremendous difference in how effecient bows are, so bow poundage is a poor indicator of overall performance and shootability. I have a hybrid 65# that is nearly equal to my 80# Hill style.
With the heavier weights you can usually achieve better penetration and trajectory. In shooting 3D, I felt like the 65# gave me a huge advantage because of the flatter trajectory. If you think you are getting flat trajectory with a 45# try going up 20#. Flatter trajectory means a larger margin of error when shooting at unknown distances (hunting) which should increase accuracy assuming it is a comfortable weight.
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I have a 45# bow.
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47# for me with 525 grains. Plenty of power and speed for deer.
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You should shoot as much weight as you can confortably shoot.
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I shoot as much weight as I can, without giving up accuracy. Which these days is about 58lbs @29 inches. If I could shoot a heavier bow as accurate I would.
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Im with TD Hunter on this. My bows all go rd 60lbs at my draw although the Dryad will peak out at rd 67lbs. I shoot as heavy as I can to get the heaviest arrow I can downrange. I really just shoot for a speed somewhere around 170 to 175fps and shoot the heaviest arrow I can at that speed. That speed seems to be what my brain has calibrated at. Right now thats a 670gr arrow.
Dan
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55# r/d longbow with a 620 grain arrow.
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46-50 depending on my mood and what I intend to shoot at..
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Don't get me wrong, higher poundage,faster bows definetly shoot flatter. The main thing is shoot whatever setup you're comfortable with and have confidence in, as long as it meets the minimum legal poundage requirement in the state you're hunting in. I also agree with ESP, watching the arrow's flight is part of the fun.
Good luck
Rod
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I've always shot bows in the low to mid 50's, I've shot 40-45 bows before but don't seem to shoot them well. I also try to always shoot arrows 10-12 GPI for my pull weight. Currently I have 54# bow and a 56# on order.
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48-52 lbs. Used to shoot more, but I don't know why.
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45# to 50# Its what I am comfortable with and has always been enough to close the deal.
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2011 Hunting Draw Wt from 629 TG Members Poll Results
Under 40……………..1% (8)
40-44………………….5% (30)
45-49………………..25% (157)
50-54………………..32% (204)
55-59…………………21% (132)
60-64…………………..9% (59)
Over 70………………..3% (18)
2010 Hunting GPP’s from 526 TG Members Poll Results
Less than 8 ggp……..1% (6)
8 - 9 ggp……………….9% (48)
9 - 10 ggp…………..29% (150)
10 - 11 ggp…………35% (182)
11 - 12 ggp…………16% (86)
12 - 13 ggp………….7% (36)
more than 13 ggp…3% (18)
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My bows spreads from 43-66@31
What I will use this year is around 55# and arrows around 560-600gn!
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Anywhere from 45 to 52#
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49 to 53@28
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50lbs this year...500gr Goldtips..original Bear Razorheads without the bleeder
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In NV our regs call for a big game bow to be capable of casting a certain weight arrow for a certain distance. Any that can do that is legal. This is a fair way to do that
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what Oxnam said. 67#'s is my prefered wt.
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I guess I fit into the average. I normally stick with bows in the 50 to 55lb. range. I WOULD shoot heavier...if I could do so. But my accuracy is best...even after not shooting for awhile...if I stick in the 50 to 55lb. range. I shot an Eland in Africa with a 55lb. bow and watched it go down in sight. Never seen much reason to shoot a heavier bow after that experience.
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You ask is it wrong to try to get flat arrow flight out to 35-40 yards. Nothing wrong with trying to get a flatter flight, as long as other things aren't overly impacted (overbowing, too light an arrow). If you are wanting to kill at 40 yards, a stickbow may not be the best choice (not that people can't do it).
I'm new like you and only feel confident shooting in the 20 yard range, but hoping to get up around 25 (with the right conditions). I'm shooting 51 # at my dl and about 10 gpi.
In answer to your second question, some trad shooters use a point of reference (placing the arrow tip) and others use instinctive shooting (which sometimes includes a subconscious reference to the arrow).
The goal with instinctive is when you see it you shoot it! Easier said then done and takes practice. Sometimes it happens and other times I scratch my head.
Good luck!
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53@28 down to 50@28 for all of my bows.
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60lb longbow, shots are always 20yd or less but I do shoot at longer distances just to see the arrow fly.
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46-49@27 20 yards or less,try to stay in this weight range.
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60-63# longbows.. 600-650gr wood arrows. I practice from 10-50 yards.. I like shots on animals to be 10-25yds.. Although the gobbler and both deer i killed last year were under 13 yards.. I love gettin close...
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48-55 with 29" draw.
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I dont use draw weight for trajectory. I use it for game penetration. I dont shoot much past 20 yards anyway, so not much of an issue for me. For 3D, its a different story.
Anyway, Deer: 50 when cold, 55 normally
elk : 58-62
I shot a couple of bison with 76 pounds. Had to train to work up to shoot that accurately.