Cat whiskers can be bad for a string if not installed correctly...just recently it has been brought to our attention (thank you) a problem involving cat whiskers that some people prefer to tie themselves that can cause a string to wear prematurely at the tie on points.
Hopefully you can see in picture the premature wear due to the rubber sliding to one side of the string because of the string's ocsillation. The material used to tie the cat whisker on, was rubbing against the string each time it is shot fraying the string material. (I hope this makes sense) I took this picture before taking the string apart to further investigate.
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg54/PierreLucas/fray.jpg)
Please make sure that when you tie cat whiskers on that the whiskers completely surround the string and protect it from abrasion and they are tied tightly but not too tight as to damage the string material.
Ryan (S2 Bowstrings) did a great video on how tie on cat whiskers.
I still prefer Hush Puppies or some kind of puffs (IMHO) to cat whiskers, they seem to be easier on the string, but to each their own.
Hope this helps everyone and in the future.
God Bless, Pierre
I took the cat whiskers off one my strings and immediately gained 20fps. Reinstalled puffs and only lost 3fps. Quieter too. :archer:
One by one, I am relieving all of my Hill and Hill style bows of anything on the string except the nocking point.
I can't tell much difference.
God bless,Mudd
I used to use cat whiskers, but went to yarn wool puffs. The reason I switched is because the puffs made less bow noise than the cat whiskers upon arrow release.
A big ditto to Night Wing's post above :thumbsup:
I use cat whiskers but I put the between the string and tie a little serving or dental floss just for added hold but nothing like the photo . Really I could just put them between the string and let it be like I do beaver balls .
I agree with Night Wing. And yarn is cheap. I got a spool of camo yarn at walmart for very little. It should last a lifetime.
Yarn or some kind of hair balls. Nothing tied on.
Thanks for the heads up, Pierre. Sounds like it could cause a bad problem.
:eek:
Never had a problem with my heavy duty Catwhiskers. I cut them 7", fold them over, tie a tight granny knot. Then I pull down each side and cut to my desired length.
Been using catwhiskers forever....no problems.
I bare-shaft matched a fellow once who had three sets of rubber spiders on his string. Everything we tried shot stiff until we got way low in spine. We took off the rubber and spine went up 20#!! Too much weight on the string can really rob performance from the bow. I use the lightest weight silencers I can get by with.
I am glad I don't tie on my catwhiskers like this.
I use a combo of some whiskers inside an alpaca wool ball, inserted between the string with light wraps above and below to keep them from sliding when bow is unstrung. I hope this won't cause and issue. I could probably eliminate the whiskers, but they really quieted the bow I just put an SBD string on. The old skinny string was still very noisy when I got the bow. This morning I shot and the arrow slipping into a really beat up glen del buck vitals made more noise than the bow.
That's a new one on me--I've been using, selling, and installing cat whiskers for years and years and seen thousands of sets in use.
I wonder if there was some super glue or something similar involved that got into the string? I tie mine on as tight as I can get them, no wear whatsoever. Something weird going on or this would have been noticed long ago.
Like anything else, they have to be used properly for them to work properly. One small set, properly installed and tuned, can work wonders. A great big set or multiple sets improperly installed won't do much good, and can even add to the noise if left too long--that's the #1 mistake I see made with them.
Chad
That was my string. Not sure where I went wrong I followed directions that I got from Ron LeClair I beleive. I folded the cat whiskers over and wrapped them around the string and tied them on with B-50 then cut them to make them nice little round balls. The cat whiskers on the right in the picture are about 1/2 gone. Thats what drew my attention to them problem. I do know that I will never use cat whiskers on a string again. Thanks to Pierre for his help on this.
I wonder if the B50 was the cause here. Might have stretched enough to loosen up causing the wear (just a guess). I always tie mine on with serving thread and have never had any come loose...
I just tie mine on the string in a knot like some others that have posted. Doesn't look as good, but they work.
Good info
I've used catwhiskers for many years with no problems. I used to split the string and install them and tie them in a knot. Then I saw the S2 video here and have used that on the last three bows. I only use one catwhisker -- 1/2 on each end of the bow about 15" from the limb tip.
I am going to investigate the puff balls a bit though. We used them in the early 70's and they worked fine. I'm going to compare the weight first though.
Now I'll do a search here and find out how best to make the puff balls because I probably wasn't doing it the best way 40 years ago!
Never had a problem with them - either wear or speed loss. Put them thru the string and tie in. Top one at the 1/4 position - lower at the 1/3.
I tie mine on around the string so they can be tuned/adjusted--done it this way for years.
This makes me think of the old string debate--"I once saw a bow with a FF string on it blow up, so I'll never use a FF string!". Nevermind the thousands (or tens/hundreds of thousands) that use the FF string that never have and never will have a problem.
No doubt something went wrong in the pictures posted. I know without a doubt the blame doesn't lie just with tied-on cat whiskers--as I said earlier, if that was the case I'd have seen, or at least heard about it years/thousands of strings ago.
Chad
That's not the cat whiskers fault....it's the b50 and how it was tied and rubbing on the string!
Another thing that should be commented on is the validity of losing 20 feet per second due to whiskers....WOW, sounds exaggerated!
Lastly, anyone shot their bow with wet puffs or fur silencers? Try the same with cat whiskers and tell me which are better to use during wet seasons? To me, I like to have equipment I can take to the woods regardless of conditions and know it's gonna perform. Cat whiskers are an all around better choice for me!
I should say that I do prefer the silencing ability of puffs or fur, but once wet have no benefit but rather hinder performance....Ryan
I wrap the cat whisker around the string until it overlaps over itself, then clothes pin each end. Then I use bcy 450+ and tie a constrictor knot using gloves to pull tight, followed by a couple of granny knots.
I use a 5" length of an old FF string inserted between the strands about 10" from each end. Doesn't pick up hitchhiker seeds and doesn't get wet. After enough shots it fuzzes out nicely and gets even quieter.
I don't think the B-50 was the culprit. 450+ is made from Dyneema and Vectran--dacron shouldn't be able to damage it. That is akin to lead cutting steel.
I've tied on silencers using dacron, Dyneema, dental floss, etc. etc. etc. One seems to work as well as the other, but the last few years I've mainly used 62 Braid or 62XS serving material (it's convenient).
For a 20 fps difference it would normally take a LOT of silencer material--a lot more than should be needed for any bow. More isn't always better. Properly installed, cat whiskers will work as well as any silencer and the weight/speed difference is negligable.
Back to the point--I'm not trying to convince anyone to change over to cat whiskers, just that the tied-on cat whiskers alone are not what caused that string to wear. Could be the way they were installed, could be the way the string was made, could have been faulty string material, or several other things--or a combination of a few things.
Has anyone else seen anything like this before? I've seen some weird things happen with strings, but this one is a first for me.
I'm going to ask Ray Browne at BCY what he thinks could have happened.
Chad
Whether the actual cause is determined or not, you have successfully made me aware to routinely inspect my string in these subject areas.
Thank you, Pierre!
I am happy with cat whiskers and have used them on all my bows. Luckily for me my longbow only needs nine short strands to be quiet. My recurves required those big gobs I see others sometimes use, in pairs. I am checking the string now though, so thanks for that.
Joshua
This is a problem that I have seen many times. When we use B50 we don't see the problem nearly as much as with FF. Of course making sure that the rubber is protecting the string is the most important aspect of avoiding this problem, but they do move sometimes and it happens. It's worth knowing about and keeping an eye on.
Intersting never would have thought.
Since I use SBD strings, I don't use silencers anymore!
Ive never had a problem with the whiskers. I like the wool also.
SL
I agree with Stickflinger regards weather. . . that has been my concern for yarn or balls. Also- at least most places I hunt -the yarn/balls/fur become a stick-tight/burr mess. Good info from many here though. . .
Been using cat whiskers forever ... never had a problem unless I stuffed up installing them.
I'll continue to use them with confidence.
Nothing wrong with cat whiskers.
They have been in use for many years by thousands of archers and this is the first time I have heard of any problem.
I will continue to use them as they are the best silencer in my opinion.
John
I have used them for around thirty years with no problem, I just tie them arond the string with an overhand knot pulled tight and then cut to desired length, no b50 or anything else. Never had a problem. I dont know about speed loss, I dont have any intrest in chronographs, My bow shoots where I look, so I am not going stress over a few fps
I have tested speed thru a chrono many times and have never seen anything close to a 20fps speed loss. I have found nearly no difference in speed between rubber cat whiskers and puffs.
I've used catwhiskers exclusively until I started using the Black Widow spiders... just because they work and they come with the strings that I order.
But I've never had any problems with Catwhiskers. None. I won't use yarn puffs because they pick up water. If I ever quit using the BW spiders, I'll go back to Catwhiskers.
It takes around 180-200 grs of added arrow weight reduce speed 20 fps.Silencers are like adding weight to an arrow.Most silencers I've weighed were app. 30 grs per pair.It would take a lot of silencer to weigh 180 grs..
The Montana I bought Brandly-New from Lost Nation came with Cat Whiskers already mounted on the String!! :thumbsup: NO Complaints Here!! :archer:
Lost Nation is A Great Supplier and an Awsome Family of Folks!! :clapper: :clapper: :clapper: :clapper:
QuoteOriginally posted by LBR:
I tie mine on around the string so they can be tuned/adjusted--done it this way for years.
This makes me think of the old string debate--"I once saw a bow with a FF string on it blow up, so I'll never use a FF string!". Nevermind the thousands (or tens/hundreds of thousands) that use the FF string that never have and never will have a problem.
No doubt something went wrong in the pictures posted. I know without a doubt the blame doesn't lie just with tied-on cat whiskers--as I said earlier, if that was the case I'd have seen, or at least heard about it years/thousands of strings ago.
Chad
I'm with Chad on this one....Something is funky going on....
Those puff balls are great when it's dry, but they don't cut the mustard it in Oregon. If you don't like hunting in the rain here, you don't hunt much.
I like catwhiskers too... cut short, bushy, and well fastened.
Artificial, but not edible... like the time on an isolated hunt when a mouse decided to steal my own beautiful, natural, beaver fur silencers, and left me with only about 6 bowstring strands in the process!
I think a lot of you guys are missing the point, which is inspect your strings for wear , period . Not which is the better silencer . Most of us, myself included, just grab a bow and shoot. Too late then if the string is ready to go for whatever reason. I should go down the checklist each time I shoot ,not just before a big hunt or trip.
QuoteOriginally posted by kuch:
I think a lot of you guys are missing the point, which is inspect your strings for wear , period . Not which is the better silencer . Most of us, myself included, just grab a bow and shoot. Too late then if the string is ready to go for whatever reason. I should go down the checklist each time I shoot ,not just before a big hunt or trip.
Exactly....... :clapper:
God Bless, Pierre
QuoteI think a lot of you guys are missing the point, which is inspect your strings for wear , period .
That's not what title of the thread and the first post says.
No doubt one should inspect their string on a regular basis--at the loops, at the serving, at any suspicious looking spots (frayed, etc.), if the brace height suddenly drops...and even where the silencers are installed.
Evidently this thread made some folks remember to check their strings, but that obviously wasn't the original topic.
I'd really like to know what caused the wear on that string in the pics. Since a lot of one silencer was shot out, I don't think it was because they were tied too tight. I tie mine on as tight as I can without any problems.
Chad
How old was the string........I know a bunch of archers who never think to look at their string once in a while. I can't believe that tying on those rubber strands made that string fail!
String was 2 months old. I'm wondering if I tied them too tight and the rubber broke off? When they were tied on no B50 could contact the string but once the rubber broke the B50 was touching the string.
Could be I guess.....they work well but I never liked cat whiskers.....I like wool puffs, but that's just me! I hope you get it figured out!
I've use CatWhiskers forever. Cut, and tie them on with dental floss. No problems here--ever.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/jamescastojr/Clicker.jpg)
Pierre is helping me get this figured out.
Thanks
Did you happen to melt the B50 after you tied it? Is there a chance, if you did, that the flame touched the actual string?
I only ask because I did that very thing one time tying whiskers on one time not too long ago.
i did melt the tag ends but very carefully. O don't think that was the problem.
I have also used them for many years and no problem.
Super string leeches. Try them. Other wise I use the puffs Pierre puts on his strings.
Got a reply from Ray at BCY.
QuoteHi Chad,
To comment constructively, we need to see the strings.
Can only say that we send out hundreds of lbs of B55 and 450Plus every month and we have no breakage or wear issues.
Of course, a bad spool, or partial bad spool is always possible.
Anyway, if you can get the strings back to us Chad, we can check the problems and get back to you.
Ray
I let him know that I didn't have the string in my possession.
I realize that a lot of the 450+ is used on non-traditional bows, but I also know a lot of those guys use cat whiskers for silencers too. I used cat whiskers when I shot a non-traditional bow many years ago, and never had a problem then either.
Hundreds of pounds a month of material, and nobody has contacted BCY with a problem. Tells me this must have been a very isolated incident.
If I had to guess, I'd say Ishiwannabe got it right, or it was just a bad spool of material (had that happen to me before--can't tell it until it's being used).
The main ingredient in 450+ is Dyneema, which is basically a high-tech plastic. Doesn't do well with heat. I won't even burnish my strings with anything but my fingers, because you can accidently build up a LOT of heat with a thick piece of leather.
Anyhow, without the string in hand that's the best I can come up with. Think we've pretty well put to rest the idea that it was due to the silencers.
Chad
Chad,
String material was BCY D-10, not 450??? and there were NO issues with the material.
It was the tied on material B50??? holding the catwhiskers rubbing on the string when shot.
Simple enough...
God Bless, Pierre
W.C., how about telling all, your step by step of installing these catwiskers?
Also how do you store, hang, whatever this bow.
Seems to be alot of "Gray" area, on this!
Can't believe, dacron has frayed D-10 through friction!
I would never, ever, put any heat, to any string!
I understand alot of folks out there do, but your rolling the dice! Not a good good thing!
Eventually, You Will, Get Burned!
Been using "cat whiskers" for about 35 years exculisvely. Never had a problem. BUT I will say I make my own and especially recently out of HP string material with the bare mininum amount of strings. I usually make and replace my string when it has tons of life left in it. My first thoughts are if your caring you bow where brush could rub along the string length and work on it especially where theres a knot any knot? Just curious how this could happen. Also the rubber cat whiskers on the market today are far less durable than in the olden days just like everything else I guess.
I've used them for many years with no problems,but,i agree,it's how you install them!!
I've used cat whiskers since I started bowhuntin, both with wheelie bows, and stickbows.
Tried beaver balls, yarn puffs etc. All they do is collect burrs, and water. Cat whiskers are IMO quieter. I dont get fancy with them, I tie 'em around my string with an overhand knot, cut to length and stretch 'em to fray 'em.
I do make sure i wax my string before installing, and once in a while I'll slide 'em outta the way and wax underneath. Never had a problem.
I am interested someone on this post mentioned super glue could hurt a string. I was always taught to use just a dab of super glue on my serving to keep it from coming undone.
Guys let it go!! cat whiskers are not the blame , so what if they were a new string is not that big a deal lets hear about that stalk on a Big Elk or Trophy Whitetail ,, :confused: :banghead:
QuoteThat was my string. Not sure where I went wrong I followed directions that I got from Ron LeClair I beleive.
My mistake--I read the above and assumed it was a 450+ string from Ron.
Either way, Dynaflight '10 or 450+ are both much tougher than dacron. As I said before, dacron fraying either of these materials would be akin to lead cutting into steel. I use much stronger materials to tie my silencers on, usually 62XS braided serving material for the last good while, and haven't seen anything like that.
I've learned a lot about tying on silencers over the past 20 years or so (at least I hope I have), but even in the beginning I didn't have that problem.
James, super glue can make a hard spot in string material and if flexed there it will literally break. It won't hurt the serving to add a tiny bit, just don't put so much that it soaks into the string.
Gordon, I can understand this being boring for some, but it's very interesting to me. I'm not convinced it was the dacron or the way the silencers were tied on that caused the problem. I'd like find out just what did cause it, since I use and sell cat whiskers myself. I'd never sell a product if I thought it could damage your equipment like that.
At least they weren't blamed for causing a twisted limb...... :rolleyes:
Chad
Thank you Wapiti Chaser and Pierre for the pictures and the discussion. And thanks Chad for questioning what is happening. I am interested in exactly what is happening because I don't want to cause a problem for a customer. I sell and install strings and silencers and I care what happens after the product leaves my shop. I can't believe this discussion has reached page 5 but I read it all the way through becase it matters to me.
Like everything in this game, use what works best for you. :readit:
For years I used yarn on the B-50 dacron strings of my Bear recurves. I never used string silencers on my Hill style longbows because they didn't need it.
I recommend Cat whiskers on my Shrew bows because they work the best on the 450+ strings that we put on them. If the whiskers are applied properly you'll have no problems. I cut the strips in half then lay two of them on the string wrapping the rubber around the string. I lay a loop on the string and wrap over it 6 or 8 times then stick the end through the loop and pull the end under. This doesn't leave a knot on the string. I use dental floss or 450+ material. Stretch out the rubber and trim the ends with scissors.
(http://www.shrewbows.com/rons_linkpics/Cat_whiskers%201.JPG)
(http://www.shrewbows.com/rons_linkpics/Cat_whiskers%202%20.JPG)
I tie mine on similar to Ron, except I DO tie knots--two of them. I usually try to get the knots opposite of each other, but not always.
For all the years I've used cat whiskers, and all the ways I've tied them on and all the materials I've used for tying (nylon serving, Polygrip serving, #62 Braid serving, 62XS serving, Fast Flight serving, dental floss, dacron, etc.) I'd think that somewhere down the road I would have seen this, at least if it was caused by the way they were tied on or the material used to tie them on.
I use Dynaflight '97, 8125, and dacron on all of my personal bows. Dynaflight '10 is supposed to be the strongest and toughest string material yet. How could dacron (the weakest and least durable of all string materials) cause it to fray like that?
QuoteI am interested in exactly what is happening because I don't want to cause a problem for a customer. I sell and install strings and silencers and I care what happens after the product leaves my shop.
Same here. I'd like to get to the bottom of the mystery, but there seems to be a piece of the puzzle missing.
Chad
There are different types of catwhiskers. The originals really were/are "Cat Whiskers" (brand name)...rubber with a rectangular cross-section...and these seem to be the best for silencing and ease of knotting to the string. There's also the vinyl type...what Wally-World sells. They are cheap, and do work, but aren't as good as rubber and tend to be slippery. Most popular now seems to be the type that you buy in any length (off reels) from many archery suppliers. Better than vinyl but the round cross-section isn't as easy or solid to knot to the string, and it doesn't last as long as the original type.
Good whiskers tied in a knot around your string don't hurt a thing, are tough, go on in about 20 seconds, can be easily slid up or down to find the sweet spot for noise tuning, don't require any fancy crocheting or fingerwork to put them on, don't 'buzz' or catch seeds/burrs/rain, don't flag game like fat floating fuzzypuffs can, and just plain work. After many years and many bows with'em on, no problems here.
I use them and tie what would be considered two small nock points with a 1/16 in between, then put the wiskers against the string ans wrap serving thread over the wiskers between the two nock points. they never slide and they always stay puffy.I never had any damage to any string doing it this way.JMHO
I've noticed a similar wear on my D97 string, I think the cat whiskers beat the wax off the string. Just apply more wax, problem solved, I've never broke a string yet.
After deep thought I figured out the problem.
Cats are predators, right? Well them cats got hungry and started eating the string. The simple fix is to hunt more to feed them voracious predators and your strings will be safe, your belly will be flatter, and world hunger will be solved...
Interesting discussion guys...
Never had a problem with cat whiskers. I've used them for years, and will continue to use them. They're weather proof, burr proof and work great.