Years ago shooting my own style I tried switching to shooting 3 under and things didn't go so well so I almost immediately went back to my own style.
Well over the last year I made another change with the help of Nate Steen, Spanky Neal, and the John Schulz video "Hitt'em like Howard Hill".
I switched to shooting "Hill" style much to my pleasure.
I have been shooting forever "split finger" with the exception of my very short trial earlier in my traditional experience.
After doing some reading and much thought I decided to give Rik's method of shooting 3 under a try.
Here are my 1st arrows shot 3 under out of 3 different bows. The distance wasn't far but I was impressed anyway.
These 6 are out of my 66" Osage Royale that's marked 58@27 but draws 56@28 by my scales.
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/mudd57/DSC01723.jpg)
These next 6 are out of my NM Sheldon 66" 55@28
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/mudd57/DSC01725.jpg)
And lastly are 6 shot out of my Howard Hill Wesley Special 66" 48@28
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/mudd57/DSC01726.jpg)
God bless,Mudd
I prefer 3 under for most bows myself. Always good to experiment, its a continual learning process for sure.
That is some mighty fine shooting! Looks like your a quick learner and you found your natural style of shooting. Looking good!
JL
I'm a 3 under guy, and it appears you should be too Roy.
Well, I am definitely not switching to 3 under now. I could never afford all of the broken arrows and nocks. Great shooting.
Hi Mudd, can I ask you two questions? Were those single or double nock points on your strings? Do you shoot glove or tab?
I put a second nock on before I started with the 3 under.
I was shooting my regular Bateman tab(split finger) but using it as a 3 under tab.
I am headed back out this evening with my other Wesley Special, other Osage Royale, Keeper Kat(Cheetah) and my "Old Tom".
I will not be taking the time to add an extra nock yet but I want to see if I can duplicate this mornings shots with different bows.
God bless,Mudd
The results of the rest of my herd, all 66" being shot 3 under at the same ten yards without the extra nock under the arrow.(6 arrows in each group)
Wesley Special 57@28
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/mudd57/DSC01727.jpg)
Osage Royale(ROI) 52@28
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/mudd57/DSC01728.jpg)
Keeper Kat(Cheetah) 56@28
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/mudd57/DSC01729.jpg)
Miller "old Tom" 52@28
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/mudd57/DSC01730.jpg)
It's looking good for making the switch from split finger to 3 under.
God bless,Mudd
Mudd,
Switching like this, late in the game, can cause swollen elbows :D :D :D
There are great archers which have shot both and two under. Each have there own distinct advatages. Pick your poison.
My 1st seven years I shot split. Switched to two under then settled on three under and have never looked back. Another may experience the same in reverse.
Note: When shooting three under, try to keep in mind that you don't want the third finger to become your nemisis. Two under has produced some of my best groups, yet I strongly felt that chronic numb fingers was a clue I needed to listen to.
Switching from split finger to 3 under can cause elbow problems?
My anchor is the same, my draw is the same.
What would cause the elbow problem?
God bless,Mudd
I shoot split, but after seeing those groups, my wheels are turning. Hmmm. Good shooting!
Rod
Nice shooting !
I don't know about this. Shooting three under with a Hill style bow just ain't natural. what next a bow quiver? Oh, the horrors if it all. But then again if getting that arrow up high enough so you can gun barrel aim with it and you are still in fluid control of the whole thing, have fun with it. I am going to dump all of my Hill style bows and get a Stotler and shoot it Hill style, so I am in no position to criticize anyone.
QuoteOriginally posted by pdk25:
Well, I am definitely not switching to 3 under now. I could never afford all of the broken arrows and nocks. Great shooting.
I'm with Pat. Split finger shooter for 53 years and not about to switch now!
Allan
3under isn't for everyone. there are things to consider. it may not be as forgiving a release at the inception, and it may take awhile to "perfect". if your 3under release isn't "right", it can be a clanky, noisy affair as well, and may require rethinking arrow selection.
3under, "gun barrelling", can make for a better line-of-sight aim at shorter distances, but more difficult at longer distances as trajectories increase. 3under can be particularly good with heavy bows and fast arrows!
the snap fit of the nock is *critical* - too little snap and a release could dry fire, too much snap can cause inconsistencies in arrow speed.
3under feels better to most archers with a more upright shooting form, as opposed to canting - and severe canting with split finger may be near impossible with 3under and there is no "grip" to holding the nock with yer fingers. a more upright form may require an arrow change or modification.
i think every archer owes it to themselves to give 3under a good go - it just might be the cat's meow for ya, as it is for rik and perhaps for mudd, too! how cool is that? :cool:
I had gone to three under before I switched to trad (shot my wheelie with fingers). Started three under with my first recurve. When I got my first longbow I tried split and it just felt more natural. Plus as Rob said shots over 15 became more consitent.
I didn't know I couldn't cant my bow so I'm still shooting it exactly the same as before, canted.
The only change I made is I moved one finger's placement on the string.
Everything else is absolutely the same.
I'm still shooting out to 70 yards and I'm still missing at that range in the same places I was before moving my finger...lol
I've never used my arrow as a sighting tool and still don't.
If I'm doing this 3 under shooting wrong, I'll live with it...lol
God bless,Mudd
3 Under works well for me always has, the question could be Why you shooting at the coffee bag when there is a great looking Rhinehart begging for some arrows right beside ;)
QuoteOriginally posted by Mudd:
I didn't know I couldn't cant my bow so I'm still shooting it exactly the same as before, canted. ...
i didn't say you couldn't cant with 3fu, what i said was ...
"3under feels better to most archers with a more upright shooting form, as opposed to canting - and
severe canting with split finger may be near impossible with 3under and there is no "grip" to holding the nock with yer fingers"
I'm sorry Rob!
I took what you wrote and changed it's meaning in my head as I read it. I apologize!
My whole point was that all I did was to move one finger, everything else is exactly the same as before.
Oooppss! On the 1st three bows I tried it, I did add a second nock over the arrow but when I went back in the afternoon/evening to see how it felt with the other 4 bows, I decided to leave off putting on the extra nock.
God bless,Mudd
Mudd, are you gun barreling or anchoring low and just shooting 3 under.. makes a big difference if trying to shoot longer distances or canting the bow.. Sounds like you may be anchoring low..
Mike I didn't do anything any differently than before.
I have never used my arrow as a sight, in fact if I see my arrow, I'd be better off to let down and start over because I ain't gonna hit what I want to hit.
I am not going to pretend I know how it works, all I know it that it does.
My anchor finger(middle) is still going to the the back side of my eye tooth as always.
God bless,Mudd
That's what I thought based on your comments.. Although shooting that way is pretty common it isn't the usual picture of 3-under that pops into the mind when we hear the term, and I think that were folks might get confused.. I've taught a very few to shoot that way when there was some trouble with their split finger release (pinching the nock and raising the arrow off the shelf) and it is very effective. The downside of the style being a little more nock travel on release generally requiring a slightly higher nock height (when shooting off the shelf) to avoid shelf contact or slightly raising the contact point under the rest pad. Another is increased risk of dragging the ring finger primarily because of the string angle.
The upside is that when anchoring as you do (middle finger in mouth) it can bring the arrow more parallel to the shoulders which is a good thing; creating better alignment and increasing accuracy... (Another solution for this is to use the index finger rather than the middle finger)
Mudd! I like to hear a positive result when something new is tried even though it isn't much of a change . Good Job! Maxx
the main shift 'tween split and three is which string finger gets the lion's share of pressure. for split, it's the middle finger and with three it's the pointer finger. in both cases it's important to maintain most of the string holding pressure on the finger that's under the arrow nock. and in all cases, the pinky just about goes along for the ride ... which brings up the subject of the 2 finger flemish string grip. :cool:
addendum - it should be noted that the middle finger lies perfectly in line with the forearm bone, whilst the pointer finger is slightly offset. so, with 3under, you need to slightly torque the hand for optimum form alignment. more than a few world class olympic fita recurve archers shoot split finger, but remove the pointer finger off the string, which is in effect a flemish string grip!
Been shooting 3 under always Roy. Great shooting! Looks like you have a fine stable of bows as well!
It will continue to work for you if you don`t start "thinking" about it.It is for me a much cleaner release but I could never get the "feel" for it.Sometimes to much info is bad. If it feels good...do it.RC
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
the main shift 'tween split and three is which string finger gets the lion's share of pressure. for split, it's the middle finger and with three it's the pointer finger. in both cases it's important to maintain most of the string holding pressure on the finger that's under the arrow nock. and in all cases, the pinky just about goes along for the ride ... which brings up the subject of the 2 finger flemish string grip. :cool:
addendum - it should be noted that the middle finger lies perfectly in line with the forearm bone, whilst the pointer finger is slightly offset. so, with 3under, you need to slightly torque the hand for optimum form alignment. more than a few world class olympic fita recurve archers shoot split finger, but remove the pointer finger off the string, which is in effect a flemish string grip!
And some shoot split and drop the ring finger... which is another really smooth release..
Was taught to shoot Split "Waaaaaaaaay Back When", but after Picking Archery back Up after Many Moons, Started shooting My "Wheelie" 3 under, and it just came Natural to do the same on the Recurve and My Precious LongBows!! Tried to go to Split on My LongBow once, Oh My...... I went Right Back to 3-Under!! :scared: :scared: :banghead: :laughing: :laughing:
QuoteOriginally posted by Javi:
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
the main shift 'tween split and three is which string finger gets the lion's share of pressure. for split, it's the middle finger and with three it's the pointer finger. in both cases it's important to maintain most of the string holding pressure on the finger that's under the arrow nock. and in all cases, the pinky just about goes along for the ride ... which brings up the subject of the 2 finger flemish string grip. :cool:
addendum - it should be noted that the middle finger lies perfectly in line with the forearm bone, whilst the pointer finger is slightly offset. so, with 3under, you need to slightly torque the hand for optimum form alignment. more than a few world class olympic fita recurve archers shoot split finger, but remove the pointer finger off the string, which is in effect a flemish string grip!
And some shoot split and drop the ring finger... which is another really smooth release.. [/b]
that's a flemish two finger release.
Great looking groups! You must be a fast learner. I switched to three fingers under in 1969, and have never looked back. I don't "gun-barrel", but only look at what I want to hit. It's a great way to shoot a traditional bow!
Bernie Bjorklund
NC Iowa/SW Wisconsin
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
QuoteOriginally posted by Javi:
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
the main shift 'tween split and three is which string finger gets the lion's share of pressure. for split, it's the middle finger and with three it's the pointer finger. in both cases it's important to maintain most of the string holding pressure on the finger that's under the arrow nock. and in all cases, the pinky just about goes along for the ride ... which brings up the subject of the 2 finger flemish string grip. :cool:
addendum - it should be noted that the middle finger lies perfectly in line with the forearm bone, whilst the pointer finger is slightly offset. so, with 3under, you need to slightly torque the hand for optimum form alignment. more than a few world class olympic fita recurve archers shoot split finger, but remove the pointer finger off the string, which is in effect a flemish string grip!
And some shoot split and drop the ring finger... which is another really smooth release.. [/b]
that's a flemish two finger release. [/b]
Funny you should say that.. I started dropping the ring finger about 45 years ago and at that time I had never heard the term Flemish release... nor had I ever seen anyone doing it, it just felt good and worked well for me.. now I see a few folks shooting two finger dropping either the ring finger or the index finger.. and even a few dropping both the ring and index finger shooting with only the middle finger.. which is about the cleanest release I've ever seen..
Good article on different release (loose) from 1894... http://www.archerylibrary.com/books/badminton/ read chapter V...
I was wonder where all the names for various releases came from.. kind of interesting
Another from 1922
http://www.archerylibrary.com/books/morse/additional-notes-on-arrow-release/docs/notes01.html
from my view point, the main thing about 3fu is no finger gripping of the arrow nock. yer at the mercy of the fit of the nock to the string's center serving and it better be right, not too tight and not too loose. there are consequences for either. i spent a fair amount of time (actually, about a decade), shooting a tournament freestyle recurve with a thumb rope, and that forced me to be concerned about the arrow nock fit, even when shooting 200+ arrows at a tourney.
Good shooting Mudd. I switched a few years back Now I can't hit any thing using split. Just feels good.
Good shooting Mudd!!!!
Mudd, it seems to be working for you!!! that is some great shooting
I am going back to 3 under too. I shot it well but went to split cause I didnt feel trad enough. Well I am over that and going back to what I shoot best 3 under!
3 under, 2 under, 1 under, thumb release, thumb and forefinger, split finger - ALL are as trad as yer ever gonna get. :thumbsup:
Went from two finger split to two under with most of the pressure on the index finger. As long as I do my part the arrows fly well. Nock fit IS paramount. And gotta have the double string nock.
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
3 under, 2 under, 1 under, thumb release, thumb and forefinger, split finger - ALL are as trad as yer ever gonna get. :thumbsup:
Very true...
I shoot split...kind of. I put very little pressure on the index finger. As Rob said, it is more to control the nock fit than to draw the arrow. Again, as Rob pointed out, the middle finger is aligned with the forearm. By putting most of the pressure on the middle finger, I get cleaner releases without the noise that seems to go with three under. It also tends to minimize plucking the string (my nemesis). Another benefit is it keeps me from wearing out my index finger. I've dislocated the first and second knuckles of my index finger, which has left it pretty crooked. If I try to put equal pressure on my index finger, I blister the side of that finger.
I can and have shot both ways, but I just feel that I have better control with the index finger above the arrow.
Shoot whichever way works the best for you. There is no wrong way, just various right ones!
Are you a hunter or target shooter ? What distance were these groups shot at ? I see these arrows are 4 feather fletched . Are they wood, aluminum , or carbon . Have you taken any game with this set up ?
I am 1st and foremost a hunter.
I do a lot of shooting just because I love shooting and have a great time doing it.
I like challenging myself by shooting at pull tab rings at distances that require than I remember where the tab is because I can't really see it...lol
The groups were only shot at 10 yards but I was trying a new form so I didn't want to get way out at 1st.
I primarily shoot wood but own a couple of carbons and some old fiberglass but no aluminum.
Yes I have taken game with my longbows and woodies but not shooting 3 under... yet.
God bless,Mudd
WWHT. (what would Howard think) :readit:
Been shooting 3 under for about 6 months and consistency for me is WAY better. Stick with it Mudd!
Yeah Mudd I shoot 3 under with all bows even selfbows , it just feels natual to me .
Good shooting no matter where your fingers lie on the string!
But I'm curious what you ordered from Colombia in that burlap sack. And don't say "coffee," los federales have heard that one many times before! :)
I started shooting three under because my eye seems to line up with the arrow better that way. Seems to help me a bunch!
Super cool Mudd!
If you found what works for you stay with it.
Sure looks like you found a winning approach!
No reason to do anything different.
Just don't loose that concentration you used to shoot those initial groups.
( that's where I've gone wrong before when changing styles)
Groups to be proud of Sir!
:thumbsup:
I think you better stick to split finger with the Miller longbow or you're gonna be repairing a lot of arrows with broken nocks and torn feathers. :D