I have a skinny string -- 10 or 12 strand (can't remember) and it had the standard serving then a shorter second serving on it. But that made it just a bit too fat for good nock fit, so I cut it off and the tune of the bow went haywire!!!! The arrows are flying HORRIBLE and shot placement is way off!!!! How could removing a secondary serving screw up the tune that much???? Any ideas?
did you recheck your brace height
im thinkin that maybe removing the second serving has allowed the string to stretch
just my .02$
kevin
How do your nocks fit now? Do you have two string nocks? I'm betting your previous tune was with a more stable launch of the arrow with the tighter nock fit. Now with wiggle room it's showing the imperfections of letting the arrow loose.
we aren't talking a slight variation in tune -- I'm talking it went from shooting as good as I can possibly tune one in terms of visual arrow flight, to whipping 6 - 8" on the back end and hitting over a foot high! Drastic difference, so much in fact that I thought my limb must have fractured on the first shot!
The nocks do have some play, but do snap on. I shoot 3 under also.
Double nock? And did you get the right nock height adjustment back? Something sounds off like you said. Is it possible your release was affected?
I can't see how my release would have changed. I'm kind of at a loss on this one -- I could understand a minor change due to stretch, etc. I'm going to spend some time with it tomorrow -- maybe it is just that finnicky of a bow and I just had always lived in the "sweet spot" on it. Too much tinkering gets me every time!!!!
I say it's a noc fit issue, multiply that with the string noc being out of place a bit and she will be wild as a bull. I would also think this means your arrows are not spined correctly. The limb sound was probably a nock smacking off the riser not the limb. Heck maybe I'm wrong and you were having a bad release day or form problem. Hope you get it figured out, I've been down that road and it will make you pull your hair out.
Not your release, but what the change has had as an affect on your release.
Were both layers of serving the same material?
The variables are nock fit, nock height, and brace height. Everything else is noise. Deal with each, one at a time, beginning with brace height. I suspect your nock height is low. Good luck!
Sounds like your mocks are now a sloppy fit.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bjorn:
The variables are nock fit, nock height, and brace height. Everything else is noise. Deal with each, one at a time, beginning with brace height. I suspect your nock height is low. Good luck!
Ditto
I've had the exact problem before. I'd say your arrow is sliding down the string on release. Add a nock below your arrow. Just use a piece of dental floss. To fix your nocks, you can soak them in some hot water for a few seconds and then pinch them on your string, or, you can wrap some dental floss in between the nock points.
Second, what Bjorn said:
The variables are nock fit, nock height, and brace height. Everything else is noise. Deal with each, one at a time, beginning with brace height. I suspect your nock height is low. Good luck!
I would add Nock fit, snap on and off easily. Light strings can stretch, watch for a broken strand under the serving.
I'm going with what Bud said. Really the only thing that's changed from what I'm reading...Art
here's a thought: the skinny strings are used typically b/c they are lighter - leads to faster string. Removing 1/2 of the servig = removing a significant amount of weight. This could result in the string traveling much faster upon release. IF this has happened, then retuning based on this new string speed is almost unavoidable. I understand you say it went entirely crazy and this may seem too easy - however, i wouldn't guess the string w/o the extra serving wt would tune exactly the same (mainly bh) as the string with the serving. hope you get it worked out.
mg
From my experience, just doing what he did, won't cause erratic flight. It might make his arrows act weaker, but it won't be cause for a nock height adjustment. I still say that his arrows are sliding down the string upon release. Tighter nock fit will help, but a double nock set is the answer.
My brace height and nock point are now the exact same as before...the nocks are carbon express snap-on style. They are not loose enough to fall off the string, before they were so tight that if I didn't shoot the arrow, you could not pull it off the string without it pulling the nock out of the arrow. It's now shooting a solid 15" high, and wildly tail whipping in what seems like all directions.
In terms of arrow tune, I had worked very hard to tune arrows to this bow. I'm confused how removing a partial serving could totally change the bow to something unshootable at the moment.
One of these days I'll learn "if it ain't broke -- stop tinkering!!!!!!"
Well, if you tuned to a nock that tight, then your tune is definitely off now. Basically, you tuned to accept a problem, then removed the problem.
You're definitely going to have to retune. An arrow nock should never be that tight. That's a good way to split a nock and dry fire.
J:
Several of the posters have asked if you have a second nock point tied in below your arrow nock and I have not seen you reply to this...
Do you have a second nock tied in place?
You could put the serving back on, and adjust your nocks.
Agree with Huntschool, do you have an upper and lower nock point? If not, I guarrantee that this issue will be primarily solved by adding the second nock point. The arrow is probably sliding down (or up) the bow string upon release and hitting the shelf.
I added beaver balls to my bow, and some of the arrows started to spiral. I tried changing my nock height and brace height and it seemed it fixed it on some but not others. I looked at the feathers and re-did 4 of them hoping that would fix the problem. After reading this thread I remembered I changed all the nocks on all of my arrows. I know how could if forget that, well I did, I went at looked at my nocks and some are lose fitting. I think I read that I can boil them and squeeze them together and tighten them up. I am hoping by you guys trying to fix his problem might have to fixed mine.
Thanks Robert
Agree with Huntschool, do you have an upper and lower nock point? If not, I guarrantee that this issue will be primarily solved by adding the second nock point. The arrow is probably sliding down (or up) the bow string upon release and hitting the shelf.
Well...I started over -- and simply retuned it as if I had never shot it. Wasn't going quite as well as I had hoped. So I reserved with a smaller guage serving -- that worked. It then took only minor adjustments, the nocks are a better fit and I'm back in business with this particular bow.
I'm still very shocked at just how much chaos that change made. this is my first longbow -- I have 4 recurves in addition -- and I've never seen such a drastic change in tune with one of my recurves before.
None-the-less ...it's shooting like a dream again. Thanks for the suggestions.
Oh, I shoot 3-under and do not use 2 nock points.
Oops just saw you fixed the issue with more serving. I think Huntschool had it. after you took off you top serve the nocks were much looser and your arrow may have been sliding down the string on release. A tuning nightmare. Just to check for that take a piece of tape about an inch or two long and wrap it around your string underneath your arrow nock as it is on the string.
Had the same problem and as a lot have already said the arrow is probably sliding down the string now that it is looser. I take a piece of electical tape about 3 inches long lay it on a table and cut the entire length vertically with a sharp knife. This will make a 1/3d wide by 3 inch long strip that you can wrap around the string below the arrow nock. If it works out then you can pull the tape off and tie in another nock point.
Sorry Kntucky did not read your post. We both said the same thing.
J: you need to use a nock below... seriously, there is a video out here somewhere that will show, hell scare you into putting on a second nock below the arrow nock.
I have been shooting 3 under since the 60's and take it from me, ya still need a second nock.
3 under you need 2 nock points. one above one below. Or you could just keep fighting it.
I'm gonna agree with looper as the thing that makes sense. Assuming the nock is in the same place as before, it's the only thing that could account for something as drastic as what you describe. All these other things make sense, but the effects would likely be much, much less.
2 nock points is a good thing regardless of number of fingers under.
i have seen the same as i shoot three under also...put a nock under your arrow also...not up tight against it, but a tad more than 1/16th below. that will keep the nocks from spreading at fulldraw. hope this helps ya...im sure it will.
You definitely don't want your nocks too tight. When you hang them on your string, a light tap on the string should make them come off.
I'll say again, you need to have a nock tied under your arrow. Your problem initially was that your arrow was sliding down the string when you released. That makes the arrow bounce off the shelf and gives you horrible flight. If you don't have a second nock, you'll need to have your nocks too tight to keep them from sliding. That's not good, either. With nocks too tight, tuning your broadheads will be difficult, and bareshafting will be a nightmare. Your fletched arrows might look like they are flying correctly, but odds are they aren't.
You will get your best flight from correct nock tension and a double nock. Just try it. It takes about 30 seconds to tie one on.
Nocks need to be as looper said. I shoot nocks a bit tighter but I tune for it.
The big deal here is the under nock tied in with dental floss or material of your choice.
Tell us you have seen this and will try it... Really a needed thing, we are not blowin smoke up your skirt here....
I went the dental floss route -- too many people giving that advise to not try it. Better safe than sorry, right. As a matter of fact -- just so you know, I went ahead and added it to my recurves too :D
Thanks for the help fellas!
Good deal. I guarantee you'll get better flight. Now make sure your nocks aren't too tight. If they are, soak them in some really hot water (not boiling) for about 15-20 seconds. Put them on the string and, if the string is too large, they'll spread. If the string is too small, lightly pinch them to close them up. Let them cool for a few minutes.
Again, you want to have them come off with a light tap. Too tight and they'll give you problems tuning. Not to mention a tight nock is a loud nock.
Excellent... Now you are in business. I would think you might see a difference in your groups.
Good luck
How about this possibility. Your first iteration caused the arrow to hang up on the string instead of easily slide off. This causes a slower (lower) arrow and maybe stabilizes it a bit because of that. The skinny version does not hold the arrow, allows it to slide right off, meaning a faster (higher) arrow and less early stabilization from your release.
Good luck figuring it out. Maybe try to add a BIT more thickness at the nock contact point to see if if does anything to help (and maybe corroborate what is happening.
I don't think your string stretched but your nock point may also have moved a bit in removing the second layer.
ChuckC