I thought I read somewhere that some bowyers used-to, or still do, make some adjustment to something - perhaps tiller - to make their bows shoot arrows high, and make the archer think he had a super-fast bow. Is that ringing any bells? The reason I ask is that, as a g...g...g...gap shooter, with one of my bows I am having to aim waaaaaaay down low underneath the target to get the arrow to hit it. This is at ten metres. I don't like it, as mostly all I have to do, with my combination of arrow length and physiology, is put the tip on or just under at that range. But not with this one bow. A metaphorical penny for your thoughts, then, gents? An instinctive shooter wouldn't have this problem, perhaps.
The only thing I can think of is they might shoot a light arrow. But I will be the first to admit I don't know everything.
I'm guessing you're using a 3 under grip, right? Are your arrows the same length for all of your bows? Is the bow tuned, meaning the nock point isn't too low?
I can't think of why a tuned bow would hit higher at 10 meters than any other. I guess the tiller could be off.
Ben, I was having the same problem with a new riser I picked up on close-out. Found I was heeling the grip. Just had to make a adjustment.
Just Some Possible Options:
1...Raise nock pt
2...Shoot a longer arrow
3... If using soft feather anchor, rotate cock feather Counter clockwise( ex...from 10:30 to 9:00)
4...Raise anchor
5... Shoot three under if shooting split.
6...If shooting 3 under, install one additional nock set positioned below the arrow nock sets. Instead of string walking there is a consistent offset.
**Combinations of the above options may be required. Option 6 should work on its own unless using a soft feather anchor.
Great question. Several months ago, I picked up a short r/d longbow. It shoots fast and quiet, but for the same site picture as my other bows, it shoots quite a bit high. I have compared it to my other bows, and my hand is just as close to the arrow/shelf as in the other bows. I am stumped, because I really like the way it shoots, but don't want to shoot this bow exclusively to get good with it. I'll be looking forward to the responses.
I have run into this situation before and everyone that shot the bow got the same results. Never did figure out why. It was a friends bow, so all that I had to do was give it back to him.........he sold it.
When shooting through a chrono, anything that makes the arrow go through the gates other than straight will throw off the speed reading. So yeah, forcing the arrow to fly nock high could very well throw off the readings consistently high.
Measure the width between the end of riser/Start limb low and string and do the same at top.
Maybe the tillering is off limits?
And of course check nocking point maybe the arrow is hitting something on its way of the shelf?
The stronger the bottom limb, the higher the bow will shoot. I had a friend that thought if a little positive tiller was good, a lot would be better. It shot very high which makes you think it is faster because your point on is higher.
A higher shelf then your used to will cause shots to go high.A local guy builds some really awfull long bows with really high shelves.Alot of guy's cant belive how fast they are.They arent.LOL
I bought a used recurve once from a fellow sight unseen. said he liked long bows better. When I got the bow, a take-down, and strung it up as marked, shot really high, measured the tiller, way out of wack, swapped the limbs around and it shot great. The limbs were marked wrong from the factory ( builder). I guess the fellow that orginally bought the bow couldn't figure this out and just sold it. I would check your tiller as stated above. RW
I believe that is has to do with the shelf in relationship to the actual dead center of the bow. Lowering the grip area in relation to where the arrow sits (shelf) and the actual center of the bow will change the impact point of the arrow. It could be a tiller issue.
Check your shaft in the shaftmond area, just ahead of the fletching. If it's hitting or rubbing on the shelf, marks will show on the shaft. If so the arrow may be rebounding high.
Could the bow, in fact, be fast? If not I would have to go with R. W. and a bad tiller :-/
My wife's Darton when shooting off the shelf shoots higher no matter what I can do with it's tuning. I put on a feather rest and raised the nocking point and and then it shot the same place as her Redwing Hunter with the same point on distance. I think in our case it is a limb timing issue.
Im betting its the way you grip this bow compared to your others or the way the grip fits your hand and your pressure point is lower causing you to shoot higher .
Thanks for all these responses, Gents! I don't think it is the way I'm gripping it, as I have another bow with an identical grip and shelf height. I do indeed shoot three-under, and I think the nock height is fine. The string is a bit tight, though, for the nocks. I will try changing the string. I will also experiment with nock height, even though it looks good to me. How would I measure the tiller?
Oh, I just re-read and see that Margly wrote how to measure tiller. Also, I do shoot the same length of arrow for all my bows.
And I have been playing with a chrony that a friend lent me to check my hand-loading, first time I've ever seen one. I don't really worry about what the chrony says, but seeing I have it idle curiosity is getting the better of me. I seem to get about 175fps with 10gpp out of this recurve, which is about 2fps more than my other bow that should be identical, perhaps due to the skinny home-made string I have on the bow that's causing me trouble.
Ben, I have built a few bows but I'm certainly not an expert. I think for three fingers under, the limbs will be even and for split finger the bottom will be 1/8" stronger measured from the bow belly to the string. I bet yours is considerably more.
Pavan: A limb timing issue, is Tiller.
Ben: You havent said if the bow is a takedown or 1-pc., if a takedown, measure from each end of the riser to the string with a bow square held at 90 deg. This will give you the tiller, as Gordon said above, for 3-under you will shoot better with an even tiller. If you need to make an adjustment, you can with a 3- piece takedown, just add a shim under 1 limb until the measurement is even. By the way thats the ugliest deer, I have ever seen on your avitar. :biglaugh: Have a great day Mate. RW
I was gonna say that they marked them a few lbs lighter than they really were to make them seem fast! Quite common way back (and not so way back).
Funky tiller sounds right to me. I also wouldn't assume it was a mistake - any "competitive advantage" will be capitalized on by some folks.
R
Yea, I think you're overloading the bottom limb on that particular bow. Upon release, I'd bet it's reaching brace height way before the top limb is. That, for sure, will cause it to shoot high.
I think I'd just trade that bow off. You can drive yourself crazy trying to tune a bow that is tillered wrong for you.
Thanks, fellows. I measured this three-piece take-down recurve as outlined above, and found all measurements to be the same.
O.K. Ben, here is my last trick to see if your limbs are indeed the same. Get a tube of cheap red lipstick or steal some from your wife. Unstring your bow, put a strip of masking take on each limb starting just below where the string attaches to the limb down about 6" through the string groove on the face of the limb. Re-string bow, you need a helper for this, go to where you can shoot the bow, nock an arrow and draw it back, have someone take the lipstick and rub it on your string for 6 to 8" below string loop on each end, come to full draw and shoot the arrow as normal. Now, unstring and measure the length of the lipstick on each piece of tape, shood be even if the timing of the limbs are correct. If the measurements are different, it means one limb is hitting before the other one, and your limb timing is off (tiller) only sure way I know to find this out. Anyway fun to try and it will let you know for sure. RW
We use a mystery core to enhance the performance of our bows.. :goldtooth:
Red lipstick? Darn, I only have black!
I understand what Ryan is saying, but mismarked weight also was to make the bow feel smoooth and lighter than marked!
If the bowyer is shooting thru chrono, he's probably overdrawing!
But hey, we're all honest folks, right? :D
Paint your arrows black and use black fletching.....you won't be able to see them they will be so quick ;0)
QuoteOriginally posted by Ben Kleinig:
Thanks, fellows. I measured this three-piece take-down recurve as outlined above, and found all measurements to be the same.
Are you getting any noticeable vibration in the grip, or a buzz to the string after the shot compared to your other bows? That is typically what you get with limbs that are out of time.
It's rare, but I've seen limbs that measure even tiller at brace but the working limb area is slightly different from top to bottom limb. you can check this by taking a piece of butcher paper and tape it to your work bench,or table and trace the limbs at brace. then flip it over and compare the limb shape and where it's bending. Do the same thing with the bow unstrung.
If you have a difference, you need to check your riser pads for accuracy next. this drawing shows how they should line up. if you extend two lines on your riser pads they should intersect at the presure point of your grip. this is something that happens with beginning bowyer's that can be easily missed.
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Bow%20building/Drawings/Riserlayout.gif)
Now if all this stuff is just driving you nuts and you don't feel like messing with it.... i would be more than happy to check it out thoroughly for you if you just cover the shipping... let me know ... Kirk
Keep in mind that some bows are tillered with one limb longer than the other on purpose. The longer limb is left stiffer and the shorter is more flexible. You can have limbs with different lengths and still have a perfect tiller. The Japanese are famous for it and I have a bow like this as well. Its done to increase cast. I would put it on a tillering stick or have someone give it a pull while you stand back and watch. As long as the tips are even you should be ok.. I would think. Good luck brother.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ben Kleinig:
I thought I read somewhere that some bowyers used-to, or still do, make some adjustment to something - perhaps tiller - to make their bows shoot arrows high, and make the archer think he had a super-fast bow. Is that ringing any bells? The reason I ask is that, as a g...g...g...gap shooter, with one of my bows I am having to aim waaaaaaay down low underneath the target to get the arrow to hit it. This is at ten metres. I don't like it, as mostly all I have to do, with my combination of arrow length and physiology, is put the tip on or just under at that range. But not with this one bow. A metaphorical penny for your thoughts, then, gents? An instinctive shooter wouldn't have this problem, perhaps.
hah, that's easy - label the bow at a lesser 28" holding weight than the bow actually scales. :D
Or you can just make the bow fast and not have any tricks involved. (I'm still trying to figure that one out)
i like that mystery core lol
I have a bow like that with the same characteristics (Stemmler Mogul 52" 45#). I found that three under made it shoot higher than the other bows I shoot. Split finger helped considerably on correcting the shooting high issue.