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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: david janssen on September 02, 2011, 08:48:00 PM

Title: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: david janssen on September 02, 2011, 08:48:00 PM
Well I am purchasing a Hill Wesley Special soon and would like some advice learning how to shoot it.Proper grip on the bow,canting,stance,etc..

I have never shot one before and am looking foward to trying one out.

Thanks to all for your advice,

David
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: Red Tailed Hawk on September 02, 2011, 09:00:00 PM
Have you been following the hill thread. I think it's almost up to 300 pages, lots of good info there.
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: Ben Maher on September 02, 2011, 09:08:00 PM
David, I shoot mine pretty much the same as any bow I shoot regardless of bow style. I cant my bow slightly , and hold with a firm but not vice like grip , with a slightly open stance .
A good dvd is John Schulz Hittin' Like Howard Hill [ one of my favorites  ... but I'm more partial to MBB V111.

Stick with it for a while  and use a at least 10gpp and you'll find it becomes a very sweet , forgiving bow to shoot.
A good string , low stretch material goes a long way to tame the bump some feel at the shot. Having said that I still often shoot 9gpp with dacron strings ... and sometimes 12gpp with lowstretch strings [ and vice versa ] ...  and they all work.

As you have probably noticed there are a bunch of us who shoot them more than any other bows in our stables


Most importantly , when the bow gets here ... post pics !
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: Benny Nganabbarru on September 02, 2011, 09:10:00 PM
Any (normal archery / bowhunting) stance should do the trick, and a fellow ought to be able to shoot from a few different, likely-scenario hunting stances. The grip is the main issue for people, and there is lots of good information in that big Hill thread. Not everyone grips the bow the same, though. I don't think about canting any bow, as I just hold it on the angle that feels right, that it wants to be held on.

Here's my grip; others might disagree, and it could well do with some tweaking, but it seems to work for me:

(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l164/b_kleinig/Archery%20Practice/IMG_0278-Copy.jpg)

(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l164/b_kleinig/Archery%20Practice/IMG_0287-Copy.jpg)
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: ChrisM on September 02, 2011, 09:13:00 PM
don't try and get by with a light arrow 10gpp+ is where the bow shines.  If you do get bumped its you not the bow you were probably holding it wrong.  Also your draw will be shorter than with a recurve due to the low heel grip.  Contact Sunsethill on here he has some great videos that explain alot.
Warning these bows are addictive and will make all of your other bows seem as loud as a cannon.
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: Benny Nganabbarru on September 02, 2011, 09:20:00 PM
I have shot about 9gpp, and it was fine. That was with 670 grains of Douglas fir out of about 75 pounds (or a little more) of Wesley Special.
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: pdk25 on September 02, 2011, 09:49:00 PM
Nice looking bow, Ben. Even if it is with the wrong hand.
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: giff on September 02, 2011, 09:59:00 PM
use a heavy arrow and an open stance
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: Hud on September 02, 2011, 10:29:00 PM
If you find a copy of John Schulz's book, "Straight Shooting", buy it. His paperback, and instructional DVD with the same title, "Hitting Them Like Howard Hill", will explain it in detail. Also, David Miller, Miller Longbow  has his own book, available on his website.
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: owlbait on September 02, 2011, 10:35:00 PM
Get a 2X4, put a string on it and stand next to the side of a barn to practice!  :bigsmyl:  I wish I could shoot one but I have NEVER been able to make it work for me. I hope it works for you because there are a lot of guys that shoot them, and shoot them well. Looks like fun!
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: amar911 on September 02, 2011, 11:03:00 PM
I envy the guys who like to shoot HH style bows. Like some women I know, the HH bows don't seem to like me, but they sure have that beautiful, classic look to them.   :bigsmyl:  

Allan
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: robtattoo on September 02, 2011, 11:15:00 PM
1) Hang on like your life depends on it.

2) Buy a good armguard.

3) Hire a good dentist.

4) Take off your glasses.

5) Don't try & shoot it like any 'other' bow. Apparently Hill style bows are 'special' & require you to shoot them 'differently'

The severe, arm jarring, filling loosening, eye blurring handshock you experience is nothing to do with any flaws in the design, it's because you're doing it wrong.
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: straitera on September 02, 2011, 11:40:00 PM
Notice Ben's straight handle grip. Not to say you need to slip & slide all over the grip; but, that you will quickly form a constant go to effort of holding the bow. This is one of the premiere advantages of a straight handle. Quick to learn & trust confidence in a straight or slight dish grip IMO! Also, don't expect your Hill to shoot like a recurve. Welcome Hillbro.
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: AdamH on September 03, 2011, 12:10:00 AM
What Buddy Bell says ,, I've been through em all, dont think too much on it, grab it & shoot it, you'll know how to grip it in a matter of time, don't buy into all the Hype of all the Negatives you read ... Some can shoot em, Most want to ... Welcome to "True Longbows" ... Very Nice Pic's Ben ...
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: arrow flynn on September 03, 2011, 12:34:00 AM
find the tread about grip very important google sunset hill get a 40 lb hill bow to start then find a coach seriously its a steep learning curve for most of us john shultz would have never become the archer he is without hills help a good coach will keep you from practicing your mistakes bob wesley put me on the right path.the longbow is the hardest to get good with imho
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: Ben Maher on September 03, 2011, 01:03:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by robtattoo:
1) Hang on like your life depends on it.

2) Buy a good armguard.

3) Hire a good dentist.

4) Take off your glasses.

5) Don't try & shoot it like any 'other' bow. Apparently Hill style bows are 'special' & require you to shoot them 'differently'

 The severe, arm jarring, filling loosening, eye blurring handshock you experience is nothing to do with any flaws in the design, it's because you're doing it wrong[/b
A tad harsh maybe ? lol
I don't know of any  bows that get openly criticized so often as Ol Howard's
Liking or dislikling them and expressing an opinion is one thing , and luckily as a convict from the colonies I understand the humour     ;)     ... maybe some won't ....    :saywhat:    
Harsh man .....
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: Dodger on September 03, 2011, 01:22:00 AM
Don't know about you Ben but I had a good chuckle at Rob's tongue in cheek reply.
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: Benny Nganabbarru on September 03, 2011, 02:47:00 AM
Rob doesn't much care for two of my favourite bows (Hills and Widows), but he's a good bloke nevertheless.   :goldtooth:  

Saying that a Hill has a design flaw is like saying that the bows of the ancients had design flaws. Well, sure, our modern bows are faster, smoother, easier-to-use. But the next step in that logic is saying that even Rob's favourite recurve has a design flaw, and that he should get a compound instead. And the next step in that logic is to say that even the wheely bows have design flaws, and we should only shoot and hunt with rifles.
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: Ben Maher on September 03, 2011, 03:26:00 AM
i always appreciate Rob's honesty in all things    :thumbsup:    ... tongue in cheek and all ...    

But he doesn't care for Widow's  OR  Hills ?

Heresy I say !     :laughing:

I Notice all the lads from the Colonies responding .....
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: Rob DiStefano on September 03, 2011, 05:55:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by robtattoo:
1) Hang on like your life depends on it.

2) Buy a good armguard.

3) Hire a good dentist.

4) Take off your glasses.

5) Don't try & shoot it like any 'other' bow. Apparently Hill style bows are 'special' & require you to shoot them 'differently'

The severe, arm jarring, filling loosening, eye blurring handshock you experience is nothing to do with any flaws in the design, it's because you're doing it wrong.
:scared:

rob's right, of course.  hill style american flat longbows aren't for everyone.  only manly men need apply.  we who love and shoot them are a special breed.  we've learnt to put up with their quirks, foibles and abnormalities and reap heaps of aesthetic charm and kudos in return.  i think.  mmmm, yep - that's it, for sure.  

"yes dear, i'll be right there."  

sorry, gotta go get my meds now .....      :dunno:
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: Benny Nganabbarru on September 03, 2011, 06:44:00 AM
Watch how tough we are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jaW5DtKxFE
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: GingivitisKahn on September 03, 2011, 08:02:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by robtattoo:
1) Hang on like your life depends on it.

2) Buy a good armguard.

3) Hire a good dentist.

4) Take off your glasses.

5) Don't try & shoot it like any 'other' bow. Apparently Hill style bows are 'special' & require you to shoot them 'differently'

The severe, arm jarring, filling loosening, eye blurring handshock you experience is nothing to do with any flaws in the design, it's because you're doing it wrong.
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff187/GingivitisKahn/holding_it_wrong1.jpg)

You don't like Hill bows - we get it.  Why squander you time in Hill threads denigrating them?  

Whatever bow or bows you prefer, Rob - I hope they perform flawlessly for you for scores of years to come and that they keep your freezers full to overflowing with delicious game. All the best to you and yours.

As to the OP, he has a legit question and should expect to get some legit answers here on TG.  For what it's worth, when I got my Hill, I had been shooting recurves for years and used a real high wrist grip with them.  That worked fine on my pistol-gripped recurves but was a disaster on my Hill with it's big, full handle.

Did some research - found Dick in Seattle's site and started experimenting with the 'grip it like you would a heavy suitcase' technique that (I believe) Howard spoke of.  The hand shock that I certainly felt while holding the bow incorrectly vanished immediately and my accuracy (which still needs work) started improving.  Hope you get it sorted out and that you enjoy yours as much as I've enjoyed mine!
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: Mudd on September 03, 2011, 08:13:00 AM
Thank you GingivitisKahn !!

I appreciate your take and comment on shooting Hill/Hill style bows.

God bless,Mudd
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: Rob DiStefano on September 03, 2011, 08:31:00 AM
truthfully, afl's (hill style longbows) are not for everyone.  lots of guys get them for the aesthetics and after a fashion realize what they're really all about.  this is not to say they are bad or good.  they are what they are.  some folks use them exclusively, and mighty Mighty well.  there's room for all styles and types of stick bows in trad bowhunting.  it's good to experiment and see what they're all about, then gravitate towards whatever works best for ya.  it would be a travesty of sorts to shoot a bow badly simply for aesthetics.

there are no set rules for how to shoot a stick bow.  there are some not so smart things to do, and some guidelines that might help in the area of consistent accuracy.  since we don't shoot for survival (i trust!) all of this is for fun and for the primal connection to the past that lurks in all of us (whether or not we care to admit it).    :)
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: Benny Nganabbarru on September 03, 2011, 08:53:00 AM
That Team Texaco recurve shooter photo is pure gold!
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: Mudd on September 03, 2011, 10:01:00 AM
Well said Rob!

I thought I wouldn't ever be shooting a bow of this style because Of my bad experience with an "Ole Ben' something made by Ben Pearson Company years ago.

It fit everything bad mentioned here and elsewhere. It is truthful when I say that even my teeth hurt after a few quivers full out of it.

If anyone has followed my dealings just on here they'd know that I have tried about everything I could afford and then some..lol

I didn't get here overnight but I am thrilled I have finally arrived at a point that I am well pleased with my shooting and more than happy at how shooting these style bows make me feel.

I know there are bows out there that I can shoot with more ease but that's not what it's about for me.

Each shooter has to decide for themselves what's important and what works... for them.

God bless,Mudd
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: sou-pawbowhunter on September 03, 2011, 10:33:00 AM
I have not read Miller, Schulz or Steen; however, I also went to Dick Wightmans' site,and remain eternally grateful for the guidance therein.  I hope your experience is as satisfying as mine.
Title: Re: Need some advice shooting a Hill bow
Post by: toddster on September 03, 2011, 10:34:00 AM
find life line on hand low grip, so bottom three fingers and doing the most gripping straight back into the bow (into the ulna).  Hold the bow, like a bird, don't want to crush it, but don't want it to fly away. Raise bow and draw straight back, keep elbow slightly bent (this is your shock asorber) makes big differance for me.  Low bow shoulder, to get it locked in cup, pull with rumboid back muscles, hit anchor, corner of mouth, so arrow shaft is directly below eye, you will notice two or three anchors in time (corner of mouth for me, a pressure pad area under my eye, and bowstring corner of my eye brow). Relax hand and don't move bow arm till after arrow hits target.  Stand close 10 yards and shoot for just for for 2 weeks.