I know this had been a topic on here before but I want to know what you guys really think. We spend so much time and money on this whole camouflage deal but is it really worth it. I have never seen a pic of Fred Bear in camo and I know he has harvested way more game than most of us have ever or will ever harvest. So is the camo really necessary? I know in my days of shotgun hunting here in ohio with blaze orange, if you remain still and hunt the wind they would never see you, however my shotguns effective range is much farther than my stick and string. Hope to get some good feed back on this. Charlie Lamb if your listening I would like to hear your thoughts on this, I know you got to spend some time with Fred Bear and I bet you guys discussed this subject. I guess it is my personal goal to have a successful year hunting without camouflage.
I'm a big fan of wool. I guess it goes hand in hand with this stuff we now call "Traditional Hunting". I see camo patterns that look great to me but deer wouldn't know the difference between them and a green plaid shirt. I also don't go for all the scent elimination stuff because I honestly don't think it works but those who buy it obviously do and that's what matters.
Brush yourself in on the ground with more behind you than in front and keep the wind in your face and you can leave the camo and scent lok at home.
Fred wore camo...I bought a jacket just like his when I was about 22. It wasn't as common or as sophisticated as it is now but we all had it back then...at least we did around here.
I use both camo and earth-tone plaids from the ground and I've killed deer wearing both. If you wanna see Fred Bear wearing camo, check out his "Field Notes" book. Great read too, by the way!
I wear Predator camo. Some may say it really doesn't help, but I think it does and..........I look and feel great in it. :thumbsup:
I have found wearing a Cabela's leafy suit makes a big difference on the ground. I have had small game walk right up to me. Seems to help with deer in a stand, too. Can't fool their nose, though.
Glen StCharles talks about Fred bringing camo to there Little Delta camp and it was the first time used by them. If you like it use it. Frank
This has been beat to death but here are my thoughts again.
True that you can fool most deer most of the time with no camo, but the time that the mature buck of your dreams is coming right at you and happens to look up and sees you and runs off before you get a shot is it really worth wondering if a camo covered hunter would have killed him????? Deer do see in B&W (I suppose) and they are highly tuned to see movement, I think a light color moving against a dark back ground or vise versa is a bigger issue to overcome. Example look at my shirt and my face in my avatar.
Camo is not expensive and you only need one set. Buy one of the slip over leafy flauge jackets and pair of pants. It's light weight and the netting the leaves are sewn on is cool in early season heat. I've worn mine over shorts. You can put it over late season cold clothes also. It works very well.
I've proven to myself year after year that plaid and earthtone color wool clothes are as effective as commercially marketed 'camo'. However, 'camo' sometimes lets you get away with movement at wrong times I would guess.....
if the wind is in your face, you move when the animal is looking away, and are quiet....any clothing will work....there's been alot of animals shot while the hunter was wearing jeans...
a well know example...Chuck Adams, used jeans and plaid wool shirts for about 2/3 of his 'slam'...great success on big animals. He only switched to camo when the sponsorships came in...
Old Army BDUS is what I use. I also wear plaied shirts.
I wear predator and when I do I think I am invisible as long as I don't move. Am I more invisible than if I were in my earth tone Pendleton plaid? Probably not. I wear my Pendleton plaid to the pub. And when I do I am an amazingly handsome man. Am I more amazingly handsome in my plaid than in my Predator? Probably not.
My brain is my biggest challenge. I go with whatever works in that department.
Anything to break up your outline helps. Plaid is a form of camo, when you think about it. As a distinct, solid mass, you stick out...as a bunch of smaller "pieces", you have a higher tendency to fade into the background.
I think it helps, but I don't think its easy to quantify how much. Other factors, such as scent, movement, noise, etc. are equally important or more so than what you're wearing. Prey species use all their senses...fooling just one (in this case, vision) only gets you part way there.
What are you thinking about wearing instead of camo?I wear what ever is old and laying around.I dont wear facemasks or paint.I smoke cigars and drink tons of coffe.If that doesnt work out im going to dress up like a bush like on those cartoons where they are trying to get away.
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd43/MnFn/09misc040.jpg)
Old Woolrich flannel plaid shirt, camo cargo pants on sale from LLBean ($12.00), 30 year old Winona vest.
Kinda a mess, arn't I? But I stalked up to about 25 feet from two mule deer bucks and could have taken a shot at either one. I personally like camo but usually just throw together whatever is handy. I did buy a ghilli last year and had good results with it.
Do an experiment yourself. I did one back when I was a teenager. A buddy and I had a bet one season on who would kill more game. Him, wearing the new (at the time) RealTree camo; me, wearing my grandpa's brown cotton duck hunting gear. We hunted everything we could: deer, ducks, rabbits, quail, doves, squirrels. In the end, we basically tied. We both got 2 deer. He got more ducks, I got more of everything else.
I think it's more important to practice good woodmanship. Use the wind, the shadows, available cover, etc. Like some of the others, though, I've had more really close encounters while wearing a leafy suit than I ever did while wearing solid colors.
The most unnerving experience I ever had, though, was when I was wearing a dark green Filson jacket and my brown waders. I was in Alaska, on a moose hunt, and a big brown bear took a dump less than 15 feet from me. I was sitting with my back against a huge rotten stump overlooking a river bottom, and he came strolling down a trail to my right. I was in plain view of him and was so focused in the opposite direction I didn't hear him come up. His breathing caught my attention. He drop his load, which was massive by the way, and moseyed right on by me. I guess I blended in just fine. Thank goodness.
It can and has been done. Fred could probably stalk a deer in a yellow and blue jumpsuit. I guess he was just freaky good like that. Anyway wear plaid that will break up your outline and stick to shadows and you'll be fine.
In my opinion, any clothing you wear that tries to blend in and fool an animal is camo. There are many kinds of camo. Commercial camo, which is what most people just call "camo", and earth tones, plaid, whatever. It is all used as an attempt to blend in with surroundings, i.e. the definition of camoflauge. I think anything will work, as long as you restrict movement, stay in shadows, play the wind...I've shot deer wearing plaid, blaze orange, and "commercial camo". If you're trying to blend in, you're camoflauging yourself. Just my opinion.
Here in NH you can take a turkey with bow during the Fall deer season. I would never think of hunting turkeys on purpose without camo so it is an essential part of my "gear". Most of my under garments are wool and fleece goes over the top although I do have one wool camo hooded shell that I wear in the cooler part of the Fall. The other benefits of regular camo hunting clothing is simply that those garments are made for hunters....lots of pockets in the right places, easy maintenance, quiet, long lived, etc. Just for practicality's sake, good camo clothing has more to offer than the fact that it is a camo pattern. I suppose if I lived in a place where I would see dozens of deer a day the odds would be on my side whether or not I wore camo. However, last year that is about as many deer as i saw in a 3 month season so I want to tip the scales in my favor on every level. I simply believe that the benefits of wearing good camo outweigh the negatives of not wearing it.
I just realized that everything I said could be seen as hypocritical if you look at my Avatar. That deer was shot during gun season. Orange is not required in NH and I was wearing camo in my stand when I shot him. That pic was taken the morning we dragged it out. I had killed it the day before but it was too big for me to handle by myself. I had to call for help and wore clothing suitable for the weather and the fact that firearms season was going on. Don't want to be viewed as anything less than honest.
I feel like most everything in hunting and fishing has a lot to do with confidence. "Why are you fishing a jig I have been catching them on a worm?" "I got more confidence in catching a big fish on a jig." you hear pro anglers say the word "confidence" more than anybody else.
If you are more confidant wearing camo then you will stay on your stand longer (increasing your chance) and I bet you will be more still then if you didn't have the same level of confidence.
Wear what you feel makes you your best.
as long as breaks up my out line and it dont draw attention. and i agree with kodiak mag
I didn't talk to Fred about camo but I think Fred was more concerned with other aspects of the hunt or certainly didn't have it at the top of his list of important stuff to pay attention to... like being quiet, not getting caught moving, and working the wind being foremost.
I know I don't.
My personal opinion: I've been in the woods and.. when being still.. have had many animals continue their business without seeing me. I've also had animals pick me off quickly in the same situation. Game has seen me immobile in camo and ran. Purely sight, including bears.
So I figure...if I can afford camo, I'm going to use it as another tool. If I don't have it...I'm not going to stay home. I will hunt either way.
I will not pay huge amounts of money for any particular type of camo though. Other qualities, sure...but not just for a camo pattern.
Thanks everyone for your feedback. I plan on hunting in brown pants a plaid flannel and a plaid wool pullover . Gonna try to pay a lot of attention to other details like wind, shadows and being still. I know plaid is a form of camo but I just wanted to try getting away from the commercial stuff.
Steve, good luck hunting this year without camo. I don't ware camo very often and I seem to do alright. I used to use red and black plaid and thought it was invisable to deer. I'm going to try it again this year.
Movement, noise and the wind. Have had coyotes spot me at 300-400 yards out in full camo . camo shoes to full face mask and gloves . Have also got them at ten feet in blue jeans and a green or brown T shirt. You do not need (camo ) to blend in but you do need to blend in.
Lot of deer were harvested by bow hunters and gun hunters before camo was invented. That speaks volumes of whether it helps or you need it to harvest your game.
Have you looked at the latest Cabela or Bass Pro hunting master manuals. The manuals have grown almost to the thickness of the Bible. So many gadgets now available to hunters that it's almost ridiculous.
If you watch the Outdoor Channel or Sportsman Channel you see more commercials for these gadgets than you see of the hunting shows.
IMO hunting has lost something due to so many high tech gadgets.
If wearing commercial a camo pattern makes you feel more stealthy, then you are probably more stealthy. So wear it. Personally, I like plaid but will wear a mix - whatever is temp appropriate and cleanish.
If you wear something in which you have no confidence and that makes you feel as though you are sticking out like a sore thumb, then it's my opinion that this impacts how you move and so forth. If plaid seems right to you wear it but if you feel like the ultimate ghost in
then get that.
Take some black and white photos...A few years ago i had my wife take a bunch of photos of me in the woods with diffeent camo and even solid colored clothing and some plaid. I compared, Natgear camo, Realtree stuff, Predator fall grey, tan fleece, and a Filson plaid red/black.
Conclusion..... Lighting and background make a big difference and can make or break the purpose of the camo. But in general, Natgear camo was a very bright blob, Realtree stuff was very dark blob, filson red plaid was a dark blob, tan fleece was a medium blob and the Predator camo was a mixture of dark and white. However, one thing that really showed up was that with the Predator camo that my arms almost disappeared.
Most movement I beleieve(especially treestand hunting) is in the arms.
I say wear what you feel comfortable in, plaid, solid, or camo, whether the latest and greatest or decades old mix and match which is what I wear. I've hunted in camo since 1967 but do hunt in plaid jacket occaisionally when the weather is colder. All of my warm weather camo goes back to the 60s and 70s.
This is what I think...
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/charlie/RonniensfarmbuckR.jpg)
Ditto that Mr Lamb
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v107/doublelung/DOE02.jpg)
Although I prefer earth tones and plaids, then old and/or open camo patterns in that order, I wear whatever I can get to fit me while serving whatever purpose I am wearing it for (warmth and/or wind and/or rain and/or staying cool).
It is not always easy to find specialized items of clothing in odd sizes... I am built like an orangutan and they sell virtually everything in camo now.
Nothing wrong with wearing anything camo or not as far as I'm concerned. Sometimes I hunt looking like a vagabond... I don't think that I am very "marketable" though... LOL!
My theory is as long as it doesn't reflect light and somewhat blends in colorwise, you're good to go.
Most camo has good pockets,and I wear it ......
Charlie you kill me. Ive shot em in full camo, ive shot em in jeans and flannel shirts. Heck ive shot em after work wearing steel toe shoes carharts and stinking like a combo of welding smoke, ciggeretts and sweat. Alot depends on the situation. That being said if i have the buck of a lifetime coming down the trail to me i want every advantage in my favor. Lord knows hes got the upper hand and 9 times out ten hes gonna wind me or see me. With the winding me the probable outcome. Ive given up the smoking and use the scent free soaps now just trying to turn the odds a little in my favor.
plaid wool or cotton (warmer weather) and pants with cargo pockets (lots of 'em) and right now I cannot find pants with multiple pockets in anything but camo. So, that is what I use.
I spend a little time each season channeling my inner Fred..lol... wool pants, plaid shirt, wool vest and hat. I also have a nice pair of cotton/canvas military BDU pants that are hunter green...I wear these on those warm mid-October days with no bad weather in the forecast..I have my share of camo but I don;t believe it;s totally necessary...sit in the shadows and don't move. I've had plenty of deer within bow range while sitting in a ground blind without camo...even had some walk within 20 feet while I was just sitting up against a wide tree with no blind material in front of me at all..It's movement that gets you busted more than anything else.
I like camo to hide from other hunters
I'm an all out camo fan. Sitka Gear is my favorite but I have Predator and other stuff.
Yep, like lot's of folks, I've killed deer with bows while wearing the required blaze orange during times when youth or mzzl season's overlap bow season.
I like camo. I believe the right kind helps break up my shape and helps to confuse the deer's eye to disquise small movements. My buddy and I were elk hunting parallel to one another in 2006 in Colorado. He was wearing green predator. He was only 20-40 yards away at times and I had trouble picking him out. My human eyes are far more capable (in daylight with color abilities) of finding still objects than a deer's.
There are other critters in the woods that see better than deer (with color-seeing ability). Animals with colorful differences between the genders (think birds) see color. Otherwise their mate-attracting strategy would be lame. Some of these beasts may sound an alarm when they spot you which might just cue the deer you are after. Think turkey, blue jay, crows, etc.
With the availability of all price-ranges in camo these days I see no reason why one would want to wear otherwise? Unless one wanted to go straight from work into the woods? (I've done that too -- change in my office and walked out the door at Patoka Lake (Indiana). Pull on light coveralls over work clothes in other instances. I can think of one other reason but I'll keep it to myself because I think it would be offensive to some. Suffice to say the simple choice to carry a recurve is a strong enough statement, if I were interested in such things.
I see nothing non-commercial about plaid, plain colors etc.
Bottom line though it is a personal decision from the socks up. A hunter is made no better or worse than the next guy for their choice in outerwear. I do require a noggin cover. If not, the mirror, instead of hair, I've been packing around since the mid-30's will signal rescue planes from the next state over.
Charlie,
Thats not allowed you know? You can't taint the worshiped plaid by wearing real tree or mossy oak at the same time! the Trad gods will not be happy.
Me personally, I need all the help I can get. I'm gonna wear predator and ultimate camo. I'm going to brush my fangs, gargle and even drink some baking soda while taking chlorophyll. to help the stink from the inside, while bathing with baking soda and hunter specialty soap. Then a a little mineral stick deodorant.
I'll then do my best to hunt the wind, stay in the shadows, and not move much even when I have cover in back and front of me.
With that, I have done all I can do without going broke. $25 for camo bdu pants, $22 for predator spring green t-shirt, baking soda, soap, deodorant, maybe $10, all else free.
Camo is to hunters as make-up is to ladies. Once accustomed to it you feel naked going out in public(or to the woods) without it. I felt this way my first trip to the woods in no-camo clothes. 40 years of wearing the stuff made me feel like it was a necessary part of a successful hunt. Guess what, I saw no difference in the deer's behavior while wearing street clothes.
Being a contrary sort, I am determined to be a non camo hunter in the future, even plan to turkey hunt in 18th century garb with my flintlock.
Most of my change is due to be sickened by the steady barrage of the latest and greatest hunting products that we hunters lap up like starving dogs. Case in point, Scent Loc clothing, made the company owner a fortune even though it is for the most part ineffective according to all my friends who bought it.
I refuse to participate and make almost everything I hunt with now, including my flinter. If I can just learn how to operate my wife's sewing machine I will only buy nocks, points, an occasional can of black powder and a few yards of course cloth.
QuoteOriginally posted by Can Hahaka:
plaid wool or cotton (warmer weather) and pants with cargo pockets (lots of 'em) and right now I cannot find pants with multiple pockets in anything but camo. So, that is what I use.
Check out 511 tactical, little bit costly but great quality. Chris
Wally world has some really nice cargo pants with big pockets on the legs, tan and grey colors, about $20 a pair.
I always have my camo on ! (my face paint that is) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/1966kodiak/6PointerandtheSun-1.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/1966kodiak/BowBuck09.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/1966kodiak/Bowdeer2010008.jpg)
For many ladies I've seen make-up is a very practical thing. So is camo.
I'm not bothered a bit by folks that don't want to wear camo or those who do. Match the hatch or not. Whatever floats your boat (or dug-out).
It is very rare that Trad Gang smacks of elitism but this is one of the threads that pops up from time to time that comes across that way to me.
QuoteOriginally posted by Wapiti Chaser:
I always have my camo on ! (my face paint that is) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/1966kodiak/6PointerandtheSun-1.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/1966kodiak/BowBuck09.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/1966kodiak/Bowdeer2010008.jpg)
Wapiti,
I like those forest green wool pants. Where did you get them?
I personally ever enter the woods w/o face camo (dust or paint). I don't like a net, etc, due to visibility issues. Besides, even if I am walking in from a hunt in the daylight, as long as my face is darkened, I am always in the hunt.
More than any camo clothing, I attribute my successes over the years to a hidden face. It always amazes me that the "experts" on TV wear the latest & greatest in camo patterns and scent reducing clothing, but hunt with a bright face.
I think that any type of broken pattern, plaid, or camo will work well in a hunting situation. But I'm a firm believer in getting a face dirty!
Jeff,
Garage sale finds. I got two pair of them and they are great where I hunt because of all hemlocks and pine.
For those hunting in hotter climes, might I suggest Indonesian/Javanese Batik. They are available in various patterns and colours to suit your surroundings and make a good alternative to plaid, if not better.
Bowwilds's posts x2