Hello all,
I am currently shooting the R/D bow in my signature.
The string I am currently using is made by Tradman's Custom bowstrings. When I first acquired the bow, it came with 2 of these strings. One was already on the bow, and then the second was in the package.
Anyhow, it is marked Fast Flight, and is 16 strand.
After reading about the SBD strings, I want to give them a try.
My question is, how many strands should I go with 6 or 8, padding, actual string length, etc.
My bow is AMO 58", draws 56# @ 28", and i shoot 3 under with a double nock. Further, I shoot GT 5575's.
Any advice on appropriate specs would be appreciated.
I shoot the SBD on all my bows. Anything under #50 gets the 6 strand, anything over gets the 8.
I second Zmonster. I think you can go 6 strand to about 52 max, but that is getting iffy in my opinion.
I had a Leon Stewart 68 inch longbow (one of his early models not the slammer). I put a 6 strand 8125 on it. The string blew up at release one day ... that got my attention. I did not get hurt. The bow survived, the arrow was a mess. The bow was 47 @ 28 so at my draw it was 53 at 30. I do not wish that on anyone.
Bob.
I also shoot SBD strings on all my bows. 50#+ gets the 8 strand. Loops are padded to 16 strand.
To measure 'actual string length'. Does that mean the length of the string at my brace height? I would think that if I gave him the length and specs of the bow, that he would know how long the string should be made.. who is to say that my current string is the correct 'actual length'..???
I don't shoot skinny strings but if you go from a 16 strand down to an 8 strand I'm pretty sure there will be some arrow re-tuning in your near future.
Bisch
Sam,
the length of string is simply that, the unbraced length of the string from loop to loop.
Bob.
QuoteOriginally posted by USN_Sam1385:
To measure 'actual string length'. Does that mean the length of the string at my brace height? I would think that if I gave him the length and specs of the bow, that he would know how long the string should be made.. who is to say that my current string is the correct 'actual length'..???
Yup... you got it right... twist up your string, or untwist it till you get your desired brace height. then take the string off the bow and measure it.... when ordering a new string add a quarter inch or so. Fast flight string doesn't stretch.
E-mail or call Pierre...He'll walk you through it . It is simple and you probably will need a stiffer arrow, and you'll like the bow even more.
E-mail or call Pierre...He'll walk you through it . It is simple and you probably will need a stiffer arrow, and you'll like the bow even more.
The recommnedation is 8 strands of SB-10 for your draw wt.
The 'Silent But Deadly' web-site provides some specific guidelines.
I bought a "skinny string from Abe Penner in K-zoo last year and put it on my take down Caribow. Really loud. Did not like it and took it off.
QuoteOriginally posted by excelpoint:
I also shoot SBD strings on all my bows. 50#+ gets the 8 strand. Loops are padded to 16 strand.
You will be amazed at the performance difference with this setup.
each bow and archer will have a sweet spot of sorts when it comes to bowstrings. for me, it's 8 strands of hmpe with padded loops. it's kinda like the mama bear of bowtring strand counts - 10 is papa too much and 6 is baby too little. :D
QuoteOriginally posted by elk nailer:
... Really loud. Did not like it and took it off.
Not all "skinny" strings are the same. Different materials, different servings etc. when all skinny strings are lumped together into being talked about as the same thing.
They are not.
Try 450+ if your string seemed loud. This is a very "soft" feeling string on release and settles in quickly. It is also a very quiet string if you are open to finding how it likes your bow and maybe a slightly differing Brace Ht.
Like Rob suggests, it may take a little tweeking to find your own special set up. One string may be loud on your bow while another may be a revelation.
Worth it? Absolutely.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bisch:
I don't shoot skinny strings but if you go from a 16 strand down to an 8 strand I'm pretty sure there will be some arrow re-tuning in your near future.
Bisch
I'll second that. Re-tuning is going to be necessary.
I definitely second 8. Get yarn silencers on it and it will be a great, quiet string.
QuoteOriginally posted by Night Wing:
QuoteOriginally posted by Bisch:
I don't shoot skinny strings but if you go from a 16 strand down to an 8 strand I'm pretty sure there will be some arrow re-tuning in your near future.
Bisch
I'll second that. Re-tuning is going to be necessary. [/b]
yep. and all for the better, too. ;)
fwiw, if hmpe was used, there is totally no need for 16 strands, that's mega overkill. polyethylene is also more durable than polyester, so going to a much lower strand count hmpe bowstring than a high count dacron string will still offer really good abrasion durability. can't think of a need to go lower than 12 strands of hmpe for most any holding weight stick bow.
i did the testing for myself, and found a clear advantage to 8 hpme strands - for me. it's all subjective stuff, but your end results should be quite objective.
QuoteTo measure 'actual string length'. Does that mean the length of the string at my brace height? I would think that if I gave him the length and specs of the bow, that he would know how long the string should be made.. who is to say that my current string is the correct 'actual length'..???
Depends on the string maker. If you go by AMO specs, the string should be measured under 100# of tension (except for dacron strings made from 10 strands or less--they get measured under 50# tension).
Making a string by bow length only is a shot in the dark. Not all bows go by AMO specs (which state the string should be 3" shorter than the AMO bow length). I've seen longbows get strings from 1.5" to 4" shorter than the marked length, recurves from 2.5" to 6" shorter, along with shooter preferance. The previous owner may have liked it braced at 6", you might like it better at 7"--that's going to be near an inch difference in string length. You don't want to twist up or let out an inch.
All string materials and both types of string (endless and flemish) will have some degree of stretch. How much depends on the type string material, how many strands, and how much tension it's under.
Chad
Ok... skinny string aficionados I got a question for you....
I have a longbow which shoots a 658 grain arrow at 150fps; this bow is quiet, shock free and fun to shoot, the bow is equipped with a 16 strand Flemish string made of BCY D-10 material... What is the practical gain in FPS I can expect with an 8 strand string of the same material...
QuoteOriginally posted by Javi:
Ok... skinny string aficionados I got a question for you....
I have a longbow which shoots a 658 grain arrow at 150fps; this bow is quiet, shock free and fun to shoot, the bow is equipped with a 16 strand Flemish string made of BCY D-10 material... What is the practical gain in FPS I can expect with an 8 strand string of the same material...
dunno. i'm not interested in speed but i am in it's cousin, trajectory. one will increase and the other decrease. a flatter trajectory might be a good thing. for me, low strand count strings aren't about speed, but about quietness and "forgiving".
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
QuoteOriginally posted by Javi:
Ok... skinny string aficionados I got a question for you....
I have a longbow which shoots a 658 grain arrow at 150fps; this bow is quiet, shock free and fun to shoot, the bow is equipped with a 16 strand Flemish string made of BCY D-10 material... What is the practical gain in FPS I can expect with an 8 strand string of the same material...
dunno. i'm not interested in speed but i am in it's cousin, trajectory. one will increase and the other decrease. a flatter trajectory might be a good thing. for me, low strand count strings aren't about speed, but about quietness and "forgiving". [/b]
So then, if my bow is both quiet and forgiving I have no reason to change... Is that what you're saying..
I doubt I would change if there is no appreciable gain in speed from the skinny string.. all other things being equal it is much easier to build a 16 strand string....
QuoteDepends on the string maker. If you go by AMO specs, the string should be measured under 100# of tension (except for dacron strings made from 10 strands or less--they get measured under 50# tension).
I think it's further defined as having the loops around a 1/4" diameter rod.
QuoteI think it's further defined as having the loops around a 1/4" diameter rod.
That is correct--I forgot that part. It's all done in a way that can be consistent from one person to the next.
Since most don't have a jig to stretch and measure on, it can be done on the bow and get the measurement very close. When measureing on the bow, check the brace to be sure it's correct--strings that have been off the bow for a while will usually contract,and will need to settle back in.
Chad
QuoteOriginally posted by Javi:
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
QuoteOriginally posted by Javi:
Ok... skinny string aficionados I got a question for you....
I have a longbow which shoots a 658 grain arrow at 150fps; this bow is quiet, shock free and fun to shoot, the bow is equipped with a 16 strand Flemish string made of BCY D-10 material... What is the practical gain in FPS I can expect with an 8 strand string of the same material...
dunno. i'm not interested in speed but i am in it's cousin, trajectory. one will increase and the other decrease. a flatter trajectory might be a good thing. for me, low strand count strings aren't about speed, but about quietness and "forgiving". [/b]
So then, if my bow is both quiet and forgiving I have no reason to change... Is that what you're saying..
I doubt I would change if there is no appreciable gain in speed from the skinny string.. all other things being equal it is much easier to build a 16 strand string.... [/b]
if i had yer exact setup, i'd wanna see if an 8 strand dyneema bowstring made for less of a trajectory at reasonable long hunting distances of 20-30 yards, while offering low noise and some measure of "forgiveness". if 'yes' on the trajectory factor, i'd change and if 'no'
i'd evaluate noise and "forgiveness" and go from there.
QuoteOriginally posted by Javi:
Ok... skinny string aficionados I got a question for you....
I have a longbow which shoots a 658 grain arrow at 150fps; this bow is quiet, shock free and fun to shoot, the bow is equipped with a 16 strand Flemish string made of BCY D-10 material... What is the practical gain in FPS I can expect with an 8 strand string of the same material...
I don't have all the info I need to answer that question. I did some tests here. As a rule of thumb your speed gain would be like something 1 fps per strand less. That is for recurves/hybrid/r/d long-bows, between 9 to 10 gpp and around the 50 lbs. And with a SBD D-10 string.
When you are saying 658 grain at 150 fps I think you are either shooting heavy arrows or a straight limb longbow? What is your drawweight?
I think your maximal gain would be 8 fps. The SBD site is stating between the 8 and 11 fps.
QuoteOriginally posted by elk nailer:
I bought a "skinny string from Abe Penner in K-zoo last year and put it on my take down Caribow. Really loud. Did not like it and took it off.
That's funny. I put a 6 strands SBD on my Caribow one-piece and it is dead quiet!
QuoteOriginally posted by Flying Dutchman:
QuoteOriginally posted by Javi:
Ok... skinny string aficionados I got a question for you....
I have a longbow which shoots a 658 grain arrow at 150fps; this bow is quiet, shock free and fun to shoot, the bow is equipped with a 16 strand Flemish string made of BCY D-10 material... What is the practical gain in FPS I can expect with an 8 strand string of the same material...
I don't have all the info I need to answer that question. I did some tests here. As a rule of thumb your speed gain would be like something 1 fps per strand less. That is for recurves/hybrid/r/d long-bows, between 9 to 10 gpp and around the 50 lbs. And with a SBD D-10 string.
When you are saying 658 grain at 150 fps I think you are either shooting heavy arrows or a straight limb longbow? What is your drawweight?
I think your maximal gain would be 8 fps. The SBD site is stating between the 8 and 11 fps. [/b]
658 grain arrow.. 48lb at 28.5" R/D Longbow..
658 at 48lb at 28,5" 28,5 inch would lift the bowweight a little bit up, lets say 49 lbs. That means you are shooting with 13,4 gps. That explains a lot about quiet and forgiveness! I don't know if your bow is heavily R/D but I would guess that with that heavy arrows your gain in speed would be around the 4 to 5 fps.
QuoteOriginally posted by Flying Dutchman:
658 at 48lb at 28,5" 28,5 inch would lift the bowweight a little bit up, lets say 49 lbs. That means you are shooting with 13,4 gps. That explains a lot about quiet and forgiveness! I don't know if your bow is heavily R/D but I would guess that with that heavy arrows your gain in speed would be around the 4 to 5 fps.
The bow is fairly high R/D and it is 48lbs at my 28 1/2" draw length.. that is measured not a guess.. I tuned the brace with a chrono and found that by lowering the brace from 7 1/2" to 7" even the bow went from 141 fps to 150fps.. a real time gain in speed, trajectory and momentum.. If I could gain a like amount from a string I would fiddle with making the skinny string.
What I have a hard time wrapping my head around is the real time gain from reducing the string weight by removing strands but adding it back by padding the 7 or so inches of center serving area... and 10 or so inches of twist back to 16 strands..
Oh well, guess I just need to get off my lazy butt and build one and test it.. :dunno:
every stick bow will have a range of performance as dictated by design, brace height, string mass weight and elasticity, arrow mass weight and spine. there are lotsa things to tweak and compare for performance. "performance" means arrow speed, vibration, noise and stability.
the bowstring is the transmission, the arrow is the vehicle and the limbs are the fuel. lowered mass weights increase speed, and that goes for limbs, strings, and arrows. i have no clue as to what and if any amount of aerodynamics adds to the measured speed/performance of those items.
all the words in the world don't hold a candle to personal testing. do the testing and let yer personal results guide your choices of tackle.
spend the $20 and try a 6-8 strand and you will know. Until you try it yourself you will never really know.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bowbldr:
spend the $20 and try a 6-8 strand and you will know. Until you try it yourself you will never really know.
:D I'll just make one...
Although it isn't a real priority at the moment, I just thought some of you might have empirical data from real time testing..
I shoot the SBD 6 strands on several recurves. In testing with a conograph and decibal meter i have not noticed much change in velocity all things being equal but their is a large change in noise, the thinner string being quiter. To me this is more important than the velocity.
Listen to LBR, he's been doin this probably longer than any on here, take the string off at brace, hang on a nail, stretch it straight, measure the length, it's that simple, measure the loops also, 8-10 strands FF or whatever low stretch string, Chad's strings are GREAT as Im sure so are others, but I'll go with expierence ... {padded loops of course} ...
Wow.
Let me just say that Pierre has been working with diligently and patiently to get the perfect string for my bow.
He has asked me questions about all the specifics of my bow, verified my preferences and arrows that I am using, and even contacted the bowyer personally to make sure that string is the perfect 'fit' for my bow.
This man REALLY gets involved in his business. I am sincerely impressed. That is something that is hard to find in this day and age, and I am extremely excited to get my new string.
In fact, I will order two just because I like how this man does business.
Pierre is one of a kind indeed!