Trad Gang

I've always shot recurves and would like to buy a longbow. I like the looks of both the d shape and the r/d hybrid type longbows. Can I get some opinions on what I can expect from each type of bow, such as accuracy, smoothness of draw, handshock, etc? Thanks, all answers will be appreciated.

Accuracy is in the shooter, not the bow.  In the same length and materials, you likely won't notice any difference in smoothness between d-shaped bows and moderate r/d bows.  D-shaped bows may have a little more hand shock, mild R/D bows will be faster.  Severe R/D  hybrid bows will be faster yet and draw a little smoother at the end of the draw, or,stated another way,can be drawn further before they stack as much as D-shaped or moderate r/d bows. Severe r/d hybrids are more likely to have recurve type grips and feel more like a recurve when shot.

R/D bows are faster at the same weight and draw length.  A well designed R/D longbow is smooth on the draw and will not stack.  

A D type bow can have some hand shock depending on design.  The grips tend to be thin at the back of the grip but this is a generalization and not a rule.  

If you like tradition go with the D bow.  If you like speed and a modern grip design go with the R/D longbow.

I have shot many bows and in my opinion, it is the guy behind the bow that matters. One good day I can shoot lights out, the next day with the same bow I suck. Pick a decent bow, tune it and don't look back.

I am a  BIG  Fan of D-Shaped LongBows, Pretty Much as Long as I am Tall too!  :thumbsup:   I agree with ermont, "Pick It & Stick With It!!"  NONE  of its Easy, as you already Know!! Just something Really  Personally Rewarding  about Shooting a Wood Arrow out of a Centuries Old Designed Bow and Hitting what Your Looking At!!  :campfire:

My r/d longbow has a grip similar to my recurves. The only major difference is the longbow is very quiet.

If you are not sure, split the difference and get something like a Robertson longbow and have the better aspects of both.

I like them both, maybe the D shape a touch better because of how it looks strung and how whisper quiet mine are.

I like the r/d longbows they seem to shoot better for me.

go to northernmist.com look at the superior that has both reflex with still retaining the'D' shape plus he is in your home state.
It may be northernmistlongbows.com

taken from the article  TRADITIONAL ARCHERY ~ for bowhunters (http://www.tradgang.com/docs/trad.html)  ...

There are essentially two types of longbows - straight and hybrid.

"Straight" longbows have limbs that are basically straight or perhaps with a bit of overall tapered reflex ("back set") or string follow ("belly set"). These are "classic" longbows that form a "D" shape when braced. Think: English longbow, American flat longbow, Howard Hill longbow.

"Hybrid" longbows have both reflexed limb ends and deflexed risers. This improves the overall efficiency of the bow, for faster arrow speeds, while still imparting a large measure of bow "stability" during the shot. Mild r/d longbows typically have that "D" braced classic longbow limb look when braced. Aggressive r/d longbows will typically show some reflex near the limb tips when braced, and allow even faster arrow speeds. The milder r/d longbows are typically somewhat more stable than the more aggressive variety (aggressive hybrids are closer in performance and aesthetics to recurves - and some will outperform recurves in the speed category).

Stick bows have a number of measured qualities, such as "stability" during and after the shot, "energy/speed" imparted to the arrow via the limbs, "noise" created during the shot, and "hand shock" after the arrow clears the riser.

Stability - the ability of the bow to remain as neutral as possible in the bow hand after the string is released.

Energy/speed - how much energy is imparted to the arrow as transmitted via the bowstring and bow limbs.

Noise - the decibel noise level after the string is released and as the arrow clears the riser; recurves typically have limb "slap", since the bowstring makes contact with the reflexed ends of the limbs, longbows don't have that issue.

Hand shock - any amount of energy that is not transmitted to the arrow is absorbed by the bow limbs and riser, and is transmitted to the bow hand.

Could go slight r/d thats d shaped when strung...

(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z267/horatio1226/jd%20berry%20apollo/IMG_4343.jpg)

(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z267/horatio1226/jd%20berry%20apollo/IMG_4355.jpg)

Northern Mist Superior and Mohawk longbows have just enough r/d in them to practically eliminate any shock, yet retain the classic look of a D bow.  I also like the look of a 68" or longer bow, so smoothness (lack of stacking) is not an issue.  Personally, I just don't like the look of the high r/d bows with recurve grips.  They seem to be the best of both worlds with the speed of a recuve and quietness of a longbow, but just don't look "right" to me.

there are a number of trad gang sponsor bowyers that offer mild r/d longbows that brace to a "D" shape.  vince @ mohawk longbows is one and he currently has a new beauty for sale at the  sponsor\\'s classifieds (http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=48;t=001618;p=1#000000)  ...

(http://www.tradgang.com/mem-imgs/csh1.jpg)

my thoughts and observations on longbow handle shapes ...

the classic american flat longow ("howard hill") has a straight handle.  these handles are meant (and tillered) to be gripped with nearly full vertical pressure - that is, from the web of your thumb/forefinger to your palm and to your pinky.  that's a LOT of surface pressure that if not administered and controlled correctly can vertically torque a released arrow.  

most of the hybrid longbows, and even most american flat longbows, offer a small locator handle that allows the grip pressure to be concentrated at the web of the thumb and forefinger (the base of the thumb's fleshy part).  this makes for a much smaller pressure point area and for more control of the release.  you can read more about this in fred asbell's new book  advanced instinctive shooting for bowhunting (http://gfredasbell.com/GFA_Books_Videos.php#advanced_instinctive_shooting)

The Mohawk Rob directed us to is a beauty.

Nice work Vince!

So many bows,...... so little money...lol

God bless,Mudd

so far my favorite bows are the very mild R/D longbows that string up as a "D",   like the Mohawk,  Crow Creek Dalton,  NM Baraga, Liberty Contender etc.  

For me they are the best blend of performance, silence, and just feel right.

i think these mild r/d longbows are a very good compromise of both performance and aesthetics.   :thumbsup:   :thumbsup:

From 1 extreme to the other-

(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h121/mandoman_2006/Robertson%20bows/DSC00159.jpg)
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h121/mandoman_2006/Robertson%20bows/DSC00156.jpg)

left to right
56" shrew Classic hunter Hybrid
62" Northern mist Baraga Mild R/D D
66" Robertson Mild R/D D
68" Northern Mist Classic straight limb D
68" Northern Mist Shelton String Follow D

Like Rob said, the mild R/D are probably the best of all the worlds, just depends on what Butters yur Bisquit.

Eric

Great picture, really shows the differences.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
taken from the article  TRADITIONAL ARCHERY ~ for bowhunters (http://www.tradgang.com/docs/trad.html)  ...

There are essentially two types of longbows - straight and hybrid.

"Straight" longbows have limbs that are basically straight or perhaps with a bit of overall tapered reflex ("back set") or string follow ("belly set"). These are "classic" longbows that form a "D" shape when braced. Think: English longbow, American flat longbow, Howard Hill longbow.

"Hybrid" longbows have both reflexed limb ends and deflexed risers. This improves the overall efficiency of the bow, for faster arrow speeds, while still imparting a large measure of bow "stability" during the shot. Mild r/d longbows typically have that "D" braced classic longbow limb look when braced. Aggressive r/d longbows will typically show some reflex near the limb tips when braced, and allow even faster arrow speeds. The milder r/d longbows are typically somewhat more stable than the more aggressive variety (aggressive hybrids are closer in performance and aesthetics to recurves - and some will outperform recurves in the speed category).

Stick bows have a number of measured qualities, such as "stability" during and after the shot, "energy/speed" imparted to the arrow via the limbs, "noise" created during the shot, and "hand shock" after the arrow clears the riser.

Stability - the ability of the bow to remain as neutral as possible in the bow hand after the string is released.

Energy/speed - how much energy is imparted to the arrow as transmitted via the bowstring and bow limbs.

Noise - the decibel noise level after the string is released and as the arrow clears the riser; recurves typically have limb "slap", since the bowstring makes contact with the reflexed ends of the limbs, longbows don't have that issue.

Hand shock - any amount of energy that is not transmitted to the arrow is absorbed by the bow limbs and riser, and is transmitted to the bow hand.

Well now, that pretty much sums it up!   :clapper:

I second what horatio 1226 said. He shoots a JD Berry and they are awsome! To me it's the best of both worlds.


-Leonard-

I love how 'Deadly Silent' my D-Bows are. I'll give up some speed for that.

QuoteOriginally posted by DannyBows:
I love how 'Deadly Silent' my D-Bows are. I'll give up some speed for that.

BUT, what kinda "D" bow?  hill-style or mild r/d?  :)

Don't matter to me as long as it's got some r/d.

QuoteOriginally posted by BWD:
Don't matter to me as long as it's got some r/d.

then it ain't hill style.   :D

Rob, both. My BamaBows Hunter and my Quillian Longhunter are my quietest bows. The Longhunter has a mild R/D.

the bama hunter is a "hill style" american flat longbow.  :)

You live in Kentwood you should have took a ride to Hastings to the Great Lks Longbow shoot over the weekend, you could have shot every type of longbow style made, there were lots of great longbow builders there! Check out Black Dog Outfitters on 57th out near Sparta/Greenville he stocks quite a few longbows and has a range where you could shoot a few of them! Great Trad shop!

Way off topic here, but I have to say this thread is a great example of what a great bunch of folks hang out here.  All positive opinions and information on a topic that would have run off the rails and into the weeds a long time ago on some other forums.

Yes sir, Mr. Swamp!  Exactly right.

I come from very minimal experience, '53 Bear Cub longbow, very slightly deflexed, a bit of a hand shocker and straight handled requiring alot of hand into the bow, totally contrasted by my new R/D longbow with a locator grip, a bit quieter than the Bear and such a sweet shooter.  As it is with many things with trad and my minimal experience, I agree with the "to each his or her own" when it comes to selecting a "better" when comparing one to the other.  I enjoy the challenge of the Bear but just about put everything else away after I shoot the new bow.  Sounds ta me like you need to shoot a few and decide for yourself.  You'll know when it feels right, and when you have the "OH BABY!" moment.....that will tell you which way to go.

Best of Luck to all,
TomBow

I love my hill bows and my sunset hill bows ishot my highest 3d scores with a 44 lb wesley special after nate put a killer grip on it  however a hybrid will out shoot a d bow by up to 20 ft per second and 10 lbs lighter bow weight and  get there without being twichey and unstable its not the bow its the archer behind the bow some years ago i met one of the shultz brothers at a shoot he had a booth selling shooting gloves he was shooting a 55 lb self bow his father had made for him and man could he shoot so there you have it

QuoteOriginally posted by arrow flynn:
....  however a hybrid will out shoot a d bow by up to 20 ft per second and 10 lbs lighter bow weight and  get there without being twichey and unstable ...

my hybrid r/d longbow IS a "D" bow.     :readit:  

so, i'm sure what you meant was a classic American Flat Longbow (in the hill style).     ;)      

yeah yeah, just a buncha words, i know i know, who really cares.  sorry.  my hackles go up sometimes when i see "D bow"  used incorrectly.    :wavey:

You can have a slightly reflex longbow that's is heaviely trapped(Fredrck Baron) and they will shoot very respectfully in performance.They also have that extreme stability trait that's very desired.
I've been looking for years for a bowyer that builds this type of bow.I saw a longbow built by Leon Steward that was simular and he told me it takes alot longer time to build a bow like that,than a R/D flatbow.

If it has a recurve riser/pistol grip and/or it doesn't form a true "D" when strung, I, myself, won't ever call it, a "longbow" or even a "hybrid longbow". It's a hybrid-period! It may well be my own idiosyncratic definition but that's fine. Only the "D"s give me that "longbow feeling." Some of the severe R/D limbed, recurve handled, bows are far closer to a recurve than a longbow in appearance and from a distance you might not be able to tell it wasn't a recurve. So why "hybrid longbow" and not "hybrid recurve?" If I can't tell what it is when strung i.e. if it's "Hill Style" or "Mohawk", then I'll call it a longbow and that is as picayune as I'll get. I'll always be polite though and allow anyone to call their bows anything they want-even "sweetheart!"      :D

I'll agree with the Curveman, even thogh a couple of his adjectives flew right-on over my head.

Eric

Mr. Curveman,

I'm far out of my league here, but I too have asked this question and have now seen it repeteadly answered by Mr. DiStefano.  Regardless of the amount of reflex if the string does not ride beyond the nock it is considered a longbow by the governing organizations.

My hybrids get called recurves all the time and particularly unbraced, but I have quickly learned that this label or degree of traditional is a minefield worth avoiding.  It's annoying and taking away from my overall experience.  My mentor won't shoot a bow with phenalics!  Come on...

Indiosyncratic or esoteric elitism who knows...  :dunno:

Mine is both!!!! :D  

St. Joe River "Green Gobblin", 53@28.

(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g128/ad2877/projects/002.jpg)

(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g128/ad2877/projects/003.jpg)

(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g128/ad2877/projects/004.jpg)

QuoteOriginally posted by Arwin:
Mine is both!!!!  :D  

St. Joe River "Green Gobblin", 53@28.

 (http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g128/ad2877/projects/002.jpg)

 (http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g128/ad2877/projects/003.jpg)

 (http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g128/ad2877/projects/004.jpg)

nope, ya can't technically have both (AFL's aren't snakes at rest, and r/d's are in no way AFL's performance-wise!).

can't see the limb tips in yer pix to thumbs up a true "D" braced shape, but it don't matter 'cause ya got yerself a hybrid alrighty!  :D

"hybrid longbows" ARE a blend of both AFL and recurve.  they have recurve r/d as part of their design, and that IS why they were created - to boost longbow performance beyond what an AFL can yield.  

but an AFL is the true classic longbow - American Flat Longbow.  it has no snake when it's sleeping off the string and it always come to a "D" shape when braced for the hunt.  it's as close to an ELB as one can get, but minus the "D" limb CROSS SECTION (not "D" brace height).

hybrids can be sneaky buggers, and both the mild r/d and STEALTH aggressive r/d can have a braced "D" shape.  "normal" aggressive r/d longbows will always exhibit some "tip flip" when braced.

some of the "normal" aggressive r/d longbows have recurve handles carved into their risers.  it's just personal preference that matters, and we all include a measure of aesthetics in our bow choices.

however ya slice and whatever longbow descriptive nomenclature anyone observes, if only the bowstring loops touch only the limb nocks, then i calls it a "longbow".

none of this stuff really matters at all, when it comes to hunting.  call it whatever ya like, for what makes you both happiest and gets the job done in the field.   :thumbsup:

Thanks Rob!!!  I love this bow, we have a long history and just got reunited after a 2 yr separation.    :archer:    Not sure what to call it either, except purty!!   :biglaugh:  

Here are a couple pics of the limb tips:

 (http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g128/ad2877/projects/0022.jpg)
 (http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g128/ad2877/projects/0013.jpg)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Arwin:
Thanks Rob!!!  I love this bow, we have a long history and just got reunited after a 2 yr separation.     :thumbsup: