Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: amar911 on August 13, 2011, 12:47:00 PM
-
I was very honored to finally be able to meet Patrick Kelly (pdk25) yesterday at the archery range here in Oklahoma City. Pat and I have talked on the phone and exchanged correspondence for some time now, even before he moved to Oklahoma. I already knew he was a very special guy, but he is even more impressive in every respect in person.
For one thing, Pat is about six foot two or three and about 225 pounds and has the physique of a lumberjack. At 6'1" and 190 pounds, I felt like a puny pipsqueak! As I soon found out, Pat is as strong as he looks. He is also a good shot, but I think he needs some work on his form to get consistent and increase his draw length to where it should be when he is expanded and stabilized for the shot. I will show some interesting pictures where he got there and looked REALLY good and solid.
Pat brought 4 bows to the range, and I brought 6. He had his new Shrew Safari, of course, along with a Slammer, a Morrison Dakota and a Howard Hill. All but the Shrew Safari were one piece bows. I was fortunate, because Pat is left-handed, so I did not have to be embarrassed by being unable to shoot his bows that ranged from a low of more than 75 pounds to a high of just under 100 pounds at my draw length! And he shot them all well. He is a hoss!
Allan
-
Never met in person just yet, but I'll sure as heck vouch him right solid guy (when he's on his meds). Kiddin. We both get heavy happys.
-
Thanks for the kind words Allan. I enjoyed finally meeting you as well. You brought along a pretty sweet stash of bows with you as well. That Koa wood is beautiful.
I could stand to be closer to 200 pounds, but I could also stand to enroll in a shooing clinic to become more consistant in my drawlength. I don't shoot too bad, but no sense losing powerstroke if you don't have to. It's easy to develop bad habits when you shoot by yourself with no feedback. Allan handled his shrew buffalo with ease.
Buddy, I need my meds, lol.
-
Pat asked me to bring some Shrews, a couple of Morrisons, and my favorite Brackenbury so he could see them. I stumbled into the range carrying all 6 bows, an arrow tube, a quiver full of arrows, and a bag with the rest of my gear. That was all I could wrap my arms around, so it was all I was going to show him! I brought my Shrew Buffalo Bow to compare with his amazingly gorgeous new Shrew Safari, my Shrew Koa Classic Hunter, the first Shrew with foam cores (a one piece Classic Hunter), a Morrison Shawnee, a Morrison ILF with longbow limbs, and my incredible Brackenbury Peerless (Peerless #3). That is a great selection of bows out of my "collection", although there are many other superb bows I had to leave at home because I simply couldn't haul any more of them around with me. Pat is going to have to come to my house if he wants to see more than 6 at a time.
After our initial greeting and the stringing and admiring of our 10 bows, we headed over to the lane on the range where there is a chronograph. Right now I will tell you that we could not get readouts on most of the shots we took (particularly Pat's shots), and the readings we did get were often obviously incorrect, so we gave up on trying to make this a true speed test session, as we had originally planned to do. We were able to get enough good readings to assure ourselves that the speeds from the various bows were about what we would suspect, and were within the fairly narrow range that we have seen from all traditional bows. Some of the bows were a little faster (like the Morrison foam carbon bows) and some a little slower (like the Howard Hill) based on the velocities that would be typical for the grains per pound of the arrows we were shooting. However, it is interesting how small the typical variations are. I have a very consistent draw (until I fatigue) and release and tend to have very consistent velocity readings (within a couple of feet per second). To give an example of the speeds we were seeing, my Shrew Buffalo Bow (68#@29.5") shoots 850 grain arrows (12.5 gpp) at about 160 fps, which we were consistently seeing when I got good readings with the chronograph at our session. That is just about what we expected from the bow, and was about average for the range of speeds, with the fastest bows doing a few fps higher to the slowest ones doing a few fps lower (when the speeds were adjusted to take into account the arrow gpp factor). Traditional archers who are on a search for speed are looking at the wrong kind of bows. Compounds can and do store more energy, and there is only so much that can be done with a linear power curve such as we find in a traditional bow.
Allan
-
Pat and I started out shooting our lighter bows -- his at 74 pounds at his draw, and my Shrew Koa Classic Hunter at 52 or 53 pounds at my draw. I shot my first two arrow group from about 15 yards. (All the other holes in the target are from previous shooters, and other folks continued to shoot at the target while Pat and I were there, so don't attribute all the other holes to us.)
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/amar911/2011-08-12_17-28-19_45.jpg)
I was pretty happy with my shooting so I took a picture. Then I watched as Pat shot his first two arrow group.
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/amar911/2011-08-12_17-30-21_924.jpg)
This was starting to look like it could turn into a competition, and I was very worried I would be the loser, so I suggested we move on to testing as opposed to trying to hit a spot. I am sneaky in that way. :) Pat kept shooting extremely well, so I made a conscious decision not to document our shots so he would have no record to compare in order to show how much better he was. That way I could save a little face. Actually, I was doing okay.
We shot all the bows, including Pat shooting some of my bows right-handed. I, on the other hand, can not shoot left-handed, and bothered my shoulder a little just trying to draw his Shrew Safari using my right arm. It is about 79 pounds at my draw length. Too heavy for me!
Pat, in the meantime, had a little trouble getting full draw on his bows -- not because he didn't have the strength, but because he hasn't been practicing his shooting form correctly when he is actually shooting. Pat says he has a 29 inch draw, but it should be more like 30 inches! Here are a couple of pictures with Pat drawing his Howard Hill bow and holding it at 30 inches. Notice his good form and full expansion. By the way, at that 30 inch draw, he is holding right at 101 pounds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Holy cow! :eek: :notworthy:
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/amar911/2011-08-12_18-34-20_198.jpg)
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/amar911/2011-08-12_18-34-14_921.jpg)
It was a great time with a great guy. I am looking forward to the next time Pat and I get together. He is a very special person. Besides being very powerful and a very good shot, he is smart as a whip and has a heart of gold. In other words, he fits in well with lots of the other TradGangers I know! :campfire:
Allan
-
I forgot to complain about my Shrew Buffalo Bow and AD Hammerhead arrows shooting too accurately. I sometimes hate shooting multiple arrow groups at the same spot from close distances like 15 yards, because the arrows sometimes get damaged. Here is one of my last two arrow groups that I was shooting for fun shortly before Pat and I left the range. I hate it when I cut off the back part of one of my fletches by hitting it with another arrow. At least I didn't Robin Hood my $18 arrow!
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/amar911/2011-08-12_18-33-02_810.jpg)
Allan
-
Pat is a beast and one heck of a shot. Glad to see you guys made it out. Pat has a very nice collection of bows.
-
Allan, you shot great. I was just trying to keep up. I have good days and bad days shooting. That is for sure. Dave(dirtybird) was lucky enough to catch me on a good day. He is gonna be slaughtering some caribou pretty soon. All this talk about strength, and I am gonna have Marlon Torres bring me back down to earth. I was real happy just to be able to hold the HH Rogue at full draw for pics after all of the shooting that we did. Even so, it looks like that elbow could come down some.
-
Cool stuff lads ! Just glad I wasn't there to make ya'll feel a tad girly when I let rip with my 52# ..........
-
Interesting write up. Sounds like anything silly enough to stand still in front of one of Pats arrows is in for trouble!
I don't suppose you took any pics of the various bows? It would be nice to see the collection :)
-
Nice shooting, and good bows!
-
100 pounds.....? :saywhat: I guess I don't see the need but God bless him. I couldn't even get it strung :biglaugh:
-
Ben K., it hasn't been all that long since I was in awe of you shooting your heavy howard hill and silvertip after all that aussie game. It kinda motivated me to try to shoot a heavier bow. I am just trying to handle the heavy bows in case I get a chance to hunt buff in africa or australia.
Ron, No need unless you want to hunt the heavy stuff. I have plenty of lightweight bows that I shoot and hunt with. And yes, it is hard to string. It is my only longbow that I have to use a stringer on.
Ben M., I seem to remember you telling me one time that I wouldn't be allowed in australia if I didn't have a howard hill bow, so I got one.
-
Pat is a great guy to shoot 3D with, and always seems to be going full steam ahead. Where I might meander around our club's course in a couple of hours, when I shoot with Pat I get through in half the time. In my head I call him Go-doggy.
The first time I met him, here was this bald-headed mass of lean muscle who looked just like the serial killer in the Reader's Digest story... But he does have a heart of gold, and if my puppy likes him, then he's OK. They got along, and I am still alive. :cool:
I am so glad that he finally completed his schooling and moved to his Paradise in Oklahoma. He sure deserves it, and he can make himself useful in dragging the game that his awesome wife kills.
Plus, if I kept shooting 3D with him, I would be skin and bones trying to keep up.
Killdeer :wavey:
-
Hey Kathy. I'm not so lean these days, but I'll work on it before you visit. Plus, if I want to chase elk I don't want my wife collecting the life insurance just yet. And who wouldn't your dog like? As innocent as a snowflake, just like the color.
-
Hey Kathy. I'm not so lean these days, but I'll work on it before you visit. Plus, if I want to chase elk I don't want my wife collecting the life insurance just yet. And who wouldn't your dog like? As innocent as a snowflake, just like the color.
-
OK, I'm gonna ask, you said if you want to hunt the heavy stuff......just what are you hunting that you need 100#.... I just gott'a know....lol!
-
The 100# is a training bow. I feel that I need over a minimum of 75# at my draw to feel comfortable for buff, and the more that I can handle the better. Obviously Allan shot a monster with a little less, but this is my comfort zone. If I was accurate with 100# , all else being equal, that is what I would take. Now you know.
-
Do you mean Cape Buffalo.....if so I understand completely :notworthy: !!
-
Yep. Cape Buffalo, or a huge Asiatic like Allan shot. ;)
-
Good Stuff !!! :thumbsup: Anymore pictures of the bows?
Bill
-
Cool , good luck on your quest!! How heavy an arrow are going to shoot for a Cape Buff.
-
Probably around 900 grains. I don't have a trip scheduled yet or anything, so there is plenty of time to get everything tweeked.
-
Pat wrote: "Even so, it looks like that elbow could come down some."
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/amar911/2011-08-12_18-34-14_921-2.jpg)
I think Rod Jenkins would disagree with that statement, Pat. Send him that picture and see what he tells you. [email protected] From having Rod coach me and tell me he wanted my elbow higher than I had it at the time, I expect he would like to see your elbow right where you have it. Your form in the photos looks VERY good to me. However, there are guys out there who have far more expertise in shooting form than I do!! Post the pictures on the Shooters Forum and you will get opinions from guys who REALLY know what they are talking about (along with opinions from guys like me who just THINK they know something). :readit:
Allan
-
My traps hurt just looking at that bow being drawn!
-
We didn't take any pics of the bows while we were shooting, but here are some pics of the 4 that I brought. Maybe Allan will share some pics of his beauties later.
Stewart Slammer 66" 74# @ 29"
Curly maple veneers, quilted maple lams and Cocobola dymondwood riser
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd102/pdk25/st4.jpg)
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd102/pdk25/st2.jpg)
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd102/pdk25/st5.jpg)
This pic is more recent, after I had a satin finish put on it.
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd102/pdk25/P1020254.jpg)
Morrison Dakota 62" 80# @ 29"
Copperhead skins, bamboo lams, bacote riser, kudu tips
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd102/pdk25/P1010412.jpg)
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd102/pdk25/P1010414.jpg)
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd102/pdk25/P1010418.jpg)
-
And the other two.
Howard Hill Rogue 68" 95# @ 29"
2 bamboo lams 2 yew lams, ? riser wood
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd102/pdk25/P1020255.jpg)
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd102/pdk25/P1020256.jpg)
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd102/pdk25/P1020257.jpg)
Shrew Safari 60" 76# @ 29"
Proprietary laminations, phenolic riser, curly ash veneers, cape buffalo overlays and tips, bowbolt takedown
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd102/pdk25/P1020258.jpg)
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd102/pdk25/P1020259.jpg)
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd102/pdk25/P1020260.jpg)
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd102/pdk25/P1020235.jpg)
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd102/pdk25/P1020238.jpg)
-
Yeah, Pats a real monster of a man. Huntin with him will keep you in shape...each of his steps is 3 of mine, and he can step over stuff I have to go around or go under. Always full of encouragement too. Good to have you as a friend, Pat, cause I sure wouldn't want you mad at me!
-
I just look that way now. Wait til I lose the weight that I should and get more aerobically fit. I'll have people kicking sand in my face at the beach.
-
Thanks Pat !!! Those are some great looking bows. :thumbsup:
Bill
-
Pat I sure like that Safari, its the right weight and shoots from the correct side too ;)
Maybe Ron should make a 58" bow with birch or osage instead of the ash, and baleen instead of the buffalo horn, and call it... the Alaskan ! :thumbsup:
-
Hmmmm, birch and baleen. It's got a ring to it.
-
Yeah... Pat's a pretty good guy for a fireman.... :bigsmyl:
-
Lol. Thanks, Tim. Still wish I could have seen the look on Mike's face when he said that.
-
Yeah, they don't get much better than "Ole Pat" he showed up at my house one day to shoot for an hour or so from Jersey !! 4 or 5 bows, a target and I dont know what, stashed in the Nissan, I say, Man you gotta get a Truck !! Miss Ya Buddy !!!!!!!
-
Thanks, Adam. You're making me blush. I still have the same car. Just looking a little more beat up. Deer have taken a ride everywhere but the driver's seat.
-
Allan....still pumped for ya on that OZ hunt of yours.....really want to do that some day.
No problem going to NZ for buiz....and hoping over to OZ to hunt....just gotta be the right time.
Good Stuff here too..... :campfire:
-
PDK25
Which model is your Shrew?
Great bow! I have Classic Hunter 56" that's a touch over 70 with the bow bolt. My favorite hunting bow.
Keep those bow pics coming!
-
Terry,
It was an amazing hunt that would definitely be right up your alley. If you could figure out a way to get over there sometime, then I am certain there would be a way for us to do the hunt together. It was the most incredible bow hunt I have ever been on.
Allan
-
Great bows! Keep shooting those high poundage bows!
-
Allan....is that a 'year ground's hunt?
-
Terry,
I know that Mick and Andy were only hunting buffalo for about a month and a half, and that next year I will be on the last buffalo hunt of the season with them in mid-July. Mick and Andy then move on to hunting other species. That said, I think buffalo can be hunted at other times of the year, and a hunt could probably be arranged in some part of the country where it would be cooler in their spring, winter or fall as opposed to the place Mick has in the far north. As we know, the seasons in Oz are all the reverse of ours due to it being in the southern hemisphere. I was there in their winter, and I got hot during the middle of the day.
Maybe some of the Aussie members could chime in here and give you some more information about the opportunities for buffalo hunting down there throughout the year. Come on, Mates, let's hear from you! :wavey:
Allan
-
I'll second that. Inquiring minds want to know. Now that I have the tools, I'm getting pretty anxious to get on some buff.
J. Oles, it is a shrew safari that has the profile of the super shrew but with different materials. Check out Ron Laclair's post about the safari north american that has a profile of the classic hunter. It is a sweet looking bow. Maybe he'll sell it to this a fellow lefty someday. ;)
-
I wonder what ever happened to that Show Safari North American? And Allan, for that matter.
-
Nice thread, very cool when 2 good friends meet. I exchanged with Pat only few likes but I had no dubbs that he is a great guy! I like to read his hunting stories.
-
Wow !! Couple of animals !! Great thread
-
Felix, you aren't hiding that Shrew, are you? LOL
I don't post hunting stories all that often anymore. I suppose that I ought to post some more.
-
No Pat, I already killed a wild boar with it! Pat you know that you have a property here in Italy.
-
Thanks brother. One of these days you need to swing by Oklahoma when you are in the U.S. Usually something to chase.
-
Reading this thread doesn't surprise me Pat is a stout dude no doubt I had a pleasure of hunting a couple years ago in Texas for javelinas with him and have been friends ever since ...pat sure does have a arsenal of bows to say the least but he doesn't let them just sit on a bow rack and collect dust my man is a straight-up killer I enjoy reading this thread keep it coming and keep killing them critters pat!!!
-
Ehhhh, thanks guys, but stouter than I wanna be right now, and the bow I just got from Dave Stinson is feeling pretty stout, and it is only 90#@30", and I am probably only drawing it 29.5". Gonna take awhile to get used to it. If you don't use it, you lose it.
Still would like to know where that Shrew North American lives now.
-
Wish I could handle those weights as well today.