Hi all...
I am doing some homework on ordering breasted or barrel tapered shafts soon... more so in higher spines to shoot out of my 63# widow longbow.
Just want to know who has these types of shafts on hand or the ability to place an order at some stage soon?
I normally in the past have done all my tapering but I have kinda trimmed down my arrow making tools in a 'hasty' clean out...
cheers,
ak.
I think Allegheny Mountain offer both styles in a few verities of wood.
Al, check out Dink's Feather Shop www.dinksfeathershop.com (http://www.dinksfeathershop.com)
Duane is a new sponsor here at TG and he just made me some of the sweetest tapered cedars. Mind you that I haven't shot wood shafts since the 70s but I told him what my bow weight and drawlength are, and also told him the weight of my current carbons shafts. The tapered cedars he made me fly perfectly and group together with my carbons. No difference under 30 yrds. I was lucky enough to win the Eagle Eye Shoot-out at Denton Hill a couple of weeks ago, thanks in no small part to Duane's arrows. Thank you very much again Duane. :thumbsup:
Ron
Not much experience with them, but the barrel taper sure seems to stiffen up the dynamic spine. Should be pretty easy to get some stiff enough for your PL. I use a 55# PL. Good luck.
Bob Burton at Whispering Winds makes some nice ones if you have an interest in hexshafts. I toured his shop and was impressed. He had quite a few already made and in stock last winter.
I like breasted taper shafts for everything. Ted Fry at Raptor Archery will make them up for you. Barrel taper does not have to take off any more spine than regular taper; the taper at the point end is only the first 6 inches and would take 11/32 down just a bit. At least that is how I like mine.
Snag if you take off more wood then starting off with 5# heavier would be good.
Barrel tapering will remove quite a bit of spine, probably 10-15#.
I have tried hex shafts in the past so-so results, so i am looking for spruce, chundoo ( if anyone still stocks these?) and or douglas fir. Maybe even POC...
In the past i have tapered mine from a 11/32 at the point end, 23/64 in the middle, down to 5/16 at the nock end.
I find this is a good all round taper for hunting and everyday shooting.
ak.
I am buying a bunch of ACME 23/64" in 80#-85#. Thought I would try barrrel tapering with some of these. I like the idea of your taper measurements Al.
Al, barrel taper is my preferred ... like those old Copperheads we use to get in Oz but have only done them myself to cedar with 'ok' results . More time on the tools and they would prob work ok . Im thinking about doing some Doug fir or lodgepole pine .
Presently Im just ding 11/32 - taper 5/16 nock end .
I have a bit of gear lying round if you need any. Just give us a hoy if you do .
I SEE NO DIFFERENCE IN THE WAY THEY SHOOT BETWEEN TAPERED AND PARALLEL I HAD ARROWS FROM 2 PROS A FEW TAPERS LEFT FROM A DOZ AND NEW PARALLELS FROM ELITE BOTH GROUP THE SAME AT 30 YRDS ? SO WHY DO INEED TAPERED SHAFTS?
I have a few dozen shafts that Don Stokes made (super cedars- Magnolia wood) and they are barrel tapered. They shoot just like any other arrow. They do seam to be stronger on the point end when I make a foul shot and hit a hard object.
Arrow Flynn ... the most accurate and forgiving shafts I have ever shot were Barrell Taper , and for hunting I use rear tapered shafts .
Tapered shafts are very forgiving and I find they clear the bow a lot better . There are many archers who find the same thing.
Also ... whe you type in capitals it appears that you are yelling at everyone ... :biglaugh:
Al, isn't Chundoo the same as Lodgepole Pine ? I think I read/heard it was somewhere . The Chundoo I got from Whitings back in the day was fantastic
We had/have a sponsor that used to list some real nice barrel tapered shafts, Great Basin Footed shafts??
Eric
Hey Ben my wife text messages me in CAPITAL LETTERS - you appear to be correct. :scared: :thumbsup:
Good luck Al. I really like the fir shafts, very nice wood for arrows. I too like the barrel taper, but the rear taper fly just as well.
Good luck!
Chundo is lodgepole. Yes.
Good arrow shaft I like them.
you are rt ben forgot to hit caps lock . anyway dave wallace shoots parallels and paul jalon stated that w a longbow it dont matter and tapers bend easier .i dont think im misquoting mr jalon .many of daves competators shoot tapers really good shots w alongbow I just dont think it makes much of a difference I know im raining on someones parade .check with paul jalon hes been an arrowsmith for over50 yrs .
I hate to say it, arrow flynn, and no offense intended, but you have to be a really good archer to appreciate the difference. :D
When I made barreled shafts, my tests showed a loss of only 2-3# after barrel tapering. Of course, it depends on the amount of taper. Mine were tapered about 9" on each end, to tips sizes of either 11/32 or 5/16.
Don, I think barreling will make the shaft act stiffer right? I know in my testing(really it was playing) It SEEMED like the bareshaft would just wag one of the bow shelf and then head down range nice a purty. Would you support that they recover quick or quicker?
CTT
Chuck, I found the same thing.At least it seemed that way. The barreled recovered faster than the taperred, which recovered faster than parralel. But I am definitley no expert. Mabey Don can say?
Al: I have a pile of chundoo in heavier spines and can taper them for you. When I tried barreling or breasting them I always lost 5# in spine consistently. If i have what you need for spine we can work something out.
I agree, Chuck. A barreled shaft bends with a different profile from a parallel, with more of the bend in the tapered ends. This keeps the thicker center section closer to the riser, so it loses less energy in the paradox and recovers more quickly. Bottom line, barreled shafts are more efficient.
I made a breasted set to hunt with this season, by cutting 33" barreled shafts back to 29 1/2" from the point end. I ended up with 5/16 nocks and 11/32 points. They fly beautifully with big 3-blade heads.
I used to like your arrow shafts Don. I may have some left. I will see if I can find them in my "stash"
Thanks.
Chuck
I assume "Breasted" taper, means only tapered from the nock end?
Thanx
Breasted taper usually means taper 9-10 inches at the fletch end and about 6" at the point end.
Right, Bjorn. They are also smaller diameter on the nock end.
"Breasted taper usually means taper 9-10 inches at the fletch end and about 6" at the point end."
I thought that was a "Barrel" taper....Hmmm. now I'm really confused...8^)
Barrel Taper refers to same length of taper at either end; so 9-10" taper down to say 5/16 at both ends.
Ahh, now I get it... Thanx
In regards to the spine issue with Barrel or Breasted tapered shafts... the info I have and from what I have been told is that you will lose spine once you taper your shafts. This is called 'static spine' (spine that is measured on a spine jig)... but what you lose on your static spine you gain on 'dynamic spine'... that is the spine of an arrow when it passes through archers paradox.
The reason I like tapered shafts is just that, as stated above, the arrow/shaft recovers from archers paradox quicker once shot.
Well... that what I have read anyhow.
ak.
One interesting note from history is that Horace Ford considered the best longbow target archer shot parralel shafts that were footed. This is the old english text from his book, Archery, Its theory and practice, Chapter V: Bobtailed is tapered, straight is parallel.
And so as regards the bobtailed arrow, which is largest at the point and smallest at the feathers, the converse of this is true. For here the tendency during its whole passage over the bow is to the right of the direction of aim, only retained by the retention of its both ends; it has a rapid flight, but docs not follow the point well and is additionally objectionable as a departure from the straight line. In short, it may be set down as an incontrovertible position in target shooting, that any shape of arrow that causes the centre of its thickness to vary in its relation to the edge of the bow, is radically bad. Therefore none other than the perfectly straight arrow is here recommended.
Current world longbow champion shooting parallel shafts? Humm?
The bobtailed arrow is not barreled or breasted; it's a continuous taper from point to nock. A natural cane arrow fits this description.
Let me 2nd Ron's recommendation. I shot a bow Ron setup for someone else, another lefty, as a favor to Ron to see if it was tuned. Man was it ever. And those arrows flew as good as any I have ever shot. And talk about quiet! The bow was a 45# Wing with no silencers and shot as quiet as any bow I own with silencers.
QuoteOriginally posted by Don Stokes:
The bobtailed arrow is not barreled or breasted; it's a continuous taper from point to nock. A natural cane arrow fits this description.
I got it. I think it is interesting Horace Ford in the old text only endorsed a straight or parallel arrow.
I've never seen a clear advantage in shooting anything but a parallel shaft for distances of less than 40 yards.. The barreled shafts do seem to have an advantage in flight stability beyond that range especially with small straight offset fletching.
The only benefit I see for a back tapered shaft is a minor increase in FOC which might offer slightly more stable flight if shooting in windy conditions for a lighter shaft which is made even lighter by the tapering..
its interesting that the greatest target archer horace ford used parallel shafts and also dave wallace the current world champ
I think we will try to do everything to improve our shooting if someone says tapers fly better then ya gotta hav em i know thats how ...i felt about it. imho if the arrow is straight and spined for your bow and you are pulling it to your draw consistantly it will fly to your target if your form is good parallels or tapers and tapers will cost more
I like parallel shafts and use them a lot .
But there are bunch of very very experienced archers who have shot every type of arrow under the sun who will tell you that day in day out a well made tapered shafts are a more forgiving and accurate shaft . I am one of them.
I am sure that Dave Wallace shoots the best shaffts availiable , but to be honest the man could shoot barbed wire accurately .
To most of us mere mortals , a tapered shaft is worth the time and effort and cost .
30 years of shooting wooden arrows has shown me that .