Fellas here in MI we have had a heck of a time with baiting. For years and years it was allowable and then for a couple of years it was banned.
Those two years were great, it really cut down on the numbers of hunters, and it really let the deer settle into natural movements through out the day...as natural as it can be here.
And I am not saying that I am for or against baiting ethically, other than it really effects my way of hunting when others do it,
but I kinda wanted to know everyones feelings on it, and how you adjust to people baiting around you, when you don't bait?
An old bowhunter once told me, "keep those does close, and when the rut comes, the bucks won't be far behind."
Now we hunt for meat, first and foremost, but a nice buck sure is pretty exciting to see every once in a while.
Thanks fellas,
Joe
I personally don't like baiting and in Indiana it's illegal. I have noticed some people around me must have a snack of apples while they're in the stand and accidently drop all of them on the ground beneath their stand...
i hate to say this but i dont see a difference between a harvested field and a food plot or a bait pile.i like to hunt the big woods,really get in natures lap...i dont judge anyone for the way they hunt...
That was something you saw a lot of in the woods.
But, economically I think MI was taking such a hit on all those people who just didn't hunt if they could not bait. I remember hearing some figure like in the billions of lost revenue.
Steve, that is why I mentioned that in the first comment, Im not judging one way or another, just wanted to get some ideas on how to work around it.
I agree with you Steve, biscuits are great, and to hunt a little patch of hay or clover, in an attempt to not call it baiting is just the same thing.
Really not judging, just trying to get some advice
I dont see why everyone gets so tore up about others baiting, you will rarely ever see a mature buck in a bait pile. If they are its at 3 n the morning. So really their not hurting anything, they may actually be helping you.
QuoteOriginally posted by huskyarcher:
I dont see why everyone gets so tore up about others baiting, you will rarely ever see a mature buck in a bait pile. If they are its at 3 n the morning. So really their not hurting anything, they may actually be helping you.
it dosn't take long for them to get conditioned to corn pile..... i think the origional post say that baiting makes them feed more at night therefor hurting people that don't bait.
Thanks Blaino, that is exactly the point that I am speaking to. Just seeing if there is any good ideas out there about working around it.
These last couple of years were great, but they will be more nocturnal. Just trying to figure a way around it without offending.
gorillabows, a 50lb bag of cob is going for $12 here. that will slow a good many down. from what i have noticed the deer don't mess with a bait pile until the crops are finished in the fields and all the acorn are done.
find oaks that are droping acorns like rain (i'm being 100% serious) and you will have deer all over you. most of my scouting is looking at the acorn crop and finding active trails.
That is real good advice, we do have some good oaks on a good year will drop "like rain". I have seen it where you couldn't even set up below the thing just cuz of the acorns plinking off my bow.
12 dollars is a lot of money for corn....on the cob!
Baiting's effectiveness is somewhat determined by the availability of natural crops. In Wisconsin, for example, it's prohibited in the southern part of the state, which is mostly agricultural, and where CWD is prevalent, and permitted in the northern part of the state, which has big woods and few agricultural crops.
Baiting is quite effective in the northern part of the state, where deer don't have a lot of alternative field crop food sources. There's no doubt that baiting pulls deer from their normal haunts, consolidates them and changes their feeding patterns and the distance they'll travel to feed. This isn't my opinion, it's fact born out by several scientific studies done by our own DNR and others.
I haven't figured out a work around. When folks move in and place bait where I'm hunting, I move, but I've about run out of places to move.
Baiting in this state leads to high level of hunter conflict as well because baiters consider the land adjacent to their baits off limits to other hunters, even though it's on public land; a lot of the land in Northern Wisconsin is public. Hunter conflicts caused by baiting is the no. 1 enforcement problem in this state and has been for several years.
I'm amused by those who argue that baiting doesn't guarantee an animal and that it's no more effective than hunting. Sure seems to give one a leg up on those who don't bait. I can't see why folks would do it if it weren't easier and more effective than hunting. OK, have at it. I imagine I'll take some heat on this one. :deadhorse:
Baiting is an issue because of the disturbance. I'm not gonna argue that baiting makes hunting too easy...that's a side issue. Baitign withotu a doubt disrupts normal deer travel and density patterns. It's also a great way to spread disease through saliva and droppings, since deer yard together around bait.
No baiting for me, unless it's for some kind of pest removal, like hogs or armadillos.
I hunt southern Michigan now and see no big benefit to baiting. There are plenty of crops around and good scouting provides you opportunities. When I hunted northern Michigan the baiting drove me nuts. I hated the way you could have an area you scouted completely changed by someone putting big piles of bait out near you. I think it completely took the deer out of their natural movements.
Just my opinion.
Dave
When every other hunting show on TV promotes commercially produced baits like it's the "must have" "latest and greatest" the people that don't do their homework and think it's as easy as a half hour TV show then the baiting will continue whether legal or not.
Minnesota didn't have any problem with baiting until Michigan banned it and then MN thought they should too! So many people thought it must be a sure fire method if it is banned. Kind of like shining deer is like shooting fish in a barrel.
Baiting would probably become an issue sooner or later with the way it all evolved anyway but it's still fun to blame MI. :)
I'm not sure how to work around it as you really have no control over what others around you do with bait. Sorry if none of my rambling makes sense but ranting can relieve a little stress sometimes.
I was disappointed when they removed the ban. I was seeing more hunters and more deer during the ban on the public land I hunt.
Orion pretty much summed up the problems with baiting as they are in Michigan,
Joe,
Tough subject, from a number of angles. I'll offer one man's experience and you can take it for what it's worth.
I "grew up" hunting in Presque Isle county, in Michigan. I can't say that we killed hundreds of deer but, that's hunting.
Fast forward to 1991. At the time, I wasn't bowhunting, but that's neither here, nor there. I shot a doe. We took it in for processing (hell, I'd have been lucky to tie my shoes at that point in my life, let alone process a deer). Anyhow, we dropped it at the processor and figured it was "done".
Yeah, done. The processor called us and asked us to come out. He had "issues" with what he was encountering while he butchered the meat. Without going into great detail and dragging out the story, I believe we had encountered one of the early cases of tuberculous disease in deer, in Michigan's northern Lower Peninsula.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, easy to say. The processor did not just call us. He called the DNR. To be short and blunt, the DNR was puzzled by what they'd seen. The deer / carcass was ultimately destroyed after the DNR had a chance to look at things and "take samples". I am a health professional and have some level of understanding of disease in man, if not animals.
My biggest concern with any baiting is concentrating game animals at "feeding areas" and increasing the risk of perpetuating communicable diseases. This is not an entirely natural phenomenon (concentrating wildlife around feeding piles). Yes, deer will congregate at apple trees and things like that. But, those events don't last for days / weeks / months on end. They are discreet, natural concentrations of wildlife that don't persist as long as a bait pile could.
What I've presented is nothing more than anecdotal evidence. It only relates to potential (not proven) effects of baiting on deer (assuming that transmission of tuberculous illness happens in close contact, such as that which may occur at a bait pile). That does not prove anything.
Despite that, I'm reluctant to advocate baiting as part of deer hunting. Also, I believe that there are certain situations where baiting may be a relatively important tool in resource management.
A nasty, icky, difficult and painful topic in hunting / wildlife management. I'm gonna go have a beer.
homebru
Well, having lived and hunted most all my 45 years in a state where baiting is not only legal, but now pretty much the only way people hunt, I'm not ashamed to say I think it sucks.
It's not that I disapprove of one person doing it, I understand all the whys and wherefores. It's not a horrible moral wrong on a small scale, but when every hunter on every piece of private land in a whole state is baiting as efficiently as they can, with the help of every piece of technology they can enlist, the situation you end up with is just sad.
Thankfully it's off limits on public land here, so there is still a lot of land where you can actually hunt.
People here talk about the same things too - makes deer nocturnal, potential spread of disease. I don't know. What I do know is that without a doubt, baiting makes deer move around less.
When deer move around less, hunting is worse all around. However, since when they do move they are visiting feeders and setting off trail cameras, the perception is that hunting is much better. Meaning it's easier to figure out where the deer are and why at least some of the time without straining your mental capabilities.
I've managed to hunt here all my life without ever hunting over bait, at the cost of never being able to join a lease or club or even hunt on most private land. I've been on one of the nicest deer properties in the country, which happens to be in Louisiana on the river, and guess what - they put out corn religiously. They would have better hunting and more deer than most of you have ever seen without it. So... why? It's an amazing place, but I wouldn't go back and deer hunt. What would be the point?
I agree I think baiting makes deer more nocturnal,but we can't control other hunters actions if it is legal so each their own. Hunt the way you want to and have fun and be safe.
I can't speak for all of TX, but I don't mind baiting on the 2000 acre ranch that I hunt. It's low fence and there are water tanks, a creek, mesquite flats, oak thickets, and pecan trees. The rancher also plants a 30, 60, and 90 acre field in wheat. We have about 5 other food plots that are 1-3 acres..generally planted in clover or wheat. We throw out cottonseed in the off season as a supplemental protein and corn from now until January.
All that said, we hunt a variety of ways on this ranch. It's all bowhunting (some trad, others wheels), but some is done on feeders, some on trails, and some on water or food plots.
We aim to kill 40 deer every year between 9 guys and never do. We usually get around 30. It's not as easy as you'd think.
I wish TX had more public land to hunt, but my hunting buddies and I are at least blessed that we have a large acreage and the surrounding ranches are large as well. Unfortunately, it is a lease so we do have to pay to play.
I can definitely see where it would be tough if everyone was hunting on private 100 acre tracts and also baiting.
In the end, I suppose we just have to make the best of what we have.
Baiting is not hunting IMHO...its more like sniping.
2.5 gallons, spread in a 10'X10' area. If you bait legally it really doesn't have a huge impact. Big bucks? Not where I hunt and our buck/doe ratio is so skewed that if baiting helps the doe harvest it probably helps. Without baiting, we had plenty of room in our woods. Now, I expect the guys from out-of-state, and SE Michigan to be back in our woods. Nobody has jobs so if they can gather gas money they will be in the woods. 50# of shelled corn @$8 here. 2.5 gallons a day, it should last???
"Now we hunt for meat, first and foremost, but a nice buck sure is pretty exciting to see every once in a while."
Your in the wrong state for nice bucks. 8^( Baiting totally changes deer patterns/movements. When I don't put bait out behind my house for viewing, we never see deer. When deer are here in my yard during daylight hours, they are not by the hunter who isn't baiting. It creates huge conflict issues among hunters, they never should have lifted the ban. I think they lifted it, cause they couldnt enforce it anyway. Every gas station had it for sale, some ban.......
I would be very interested to hear Ron LaClair's thoughts on baiting in Michigan.
I lived in Michigan for over 40 years and stiil lve the state. I believe Baiting ruined deer hunting. It resulted in the woods being full of slob hunters many of whom bought their new compound bow a week or two before the season. half ton bait piles of sugar beets were not uncommon and belive me a half ton of rooting beets has an odor you wont forget. Of course the guy who left them there is long gone by the time they start rotting.
To me the effectiveness of baiting is irellevant. Hunting is supposed to be hard, thats what makes it a sport instead of an activity like gardening. .
Baiting has just ben approved fot much of Georgia. Time will tell what effect it has here
I agree at least in principal with Jerry (Orion), if there was no substantial benefit in baiting, nobody would do it.
I am neither vastly for or against, but I won't bait for deer. I have some story book ideas of what hunting entails, and except for a few (bears, maybe south Texas javelina / hogs) baiting is not a part of the idea.
ChuckC
QuoteOriginally posted by Orion:
Baiting is quite effective in the northern part of the state, where deer don't have a lot of alternative field crop food sources. There's no doubt that baiting pulls deer from their normal haunts, consolidates them and changes their feeding patterns and the distance they'll travel to feed. This isn't my opinion, it's fact born out by several scientific studies done by our own DNR and others.
I hunt big woods have been for 20 years 2 years ago this guy shows up puts out bait piles in 5 different locations, in about a 1/2 square mile area. Up to that point I had been seeing deer moving all day. After the piles of food are dumped the deer disappear. Because the does go in at night to feed and the bucks know the does will be there, and now the deer don't move at all during the day the does lay low eat with their stomachs full and the bucks sleep all day from chasing the does around the food piles. Throws off all natural movement. The funny thing is the no one in the baiters party shot a deer in 9 days 2 years in a row. Hope he goes away soon. I tried baiting for 1 year awhile back and I never saw a deer until it was to dark to shoot.
I wish it were banned!! :thumbsup:
I personally think it just makes hunting one more of those drive up hurry up activities we live for.
My grandpa used to say nothing easy is worth a damn. "Nope boy it won't make you tough like me if ya got it easy".
I live in Michigan, and actually, I live in the area of the northern lower penninsula where the "bait ban" is still in place.
I began my bowhunting career perched in a tree, "guarding" a pile of bait of all sorts.
It was they way everyone "bowhunted". Even as a dumb kid, I learned early that bait piles were NOT everything they were cracked up to be. Deer that experience even moderate hunting pressure at baitpiles react to it by avoiding them during good daylight. I learned early on, that seeing deer show up to eat at a baitpile in the last couple minutes of legal shooting light, OR even AFTER legal time was NOT the best of situations.
Baiting on a large scale as was/IS commonplace on large chunks of private land can and will change deer movements...baiting with two gallons of corn spread out will do less altering of deer movements than a foodplot...IMHO.
Personally, I don`t care if a person baits deer with corn or other foods. I don`t haul bait into the woods anymore...and haven`t for years. I DO consider an alfalfa field with worn trails leading to it a "baitpile"...along with a producing oak, or apple tree(s).(or any other natural food source) A cornfield can be a bedding area...but to me, it is a large baitpile that I don`t have to carry. Honestly, a very well kept secret is there is alot less effort into QUALITY scouting, than hauling bait. PLUS, it is MUCH more ENJOYABLE!!!
Nobody can argue about how baiting LOOKS to the non-hunting public. This fact alone makes me think baiting is bad for hunting. I KNOW it is just another way to hunt, and I cannot see much difference between a good seasonal food source and a hauled in baitpile. We are taking advantage of the deer`s need for food.
I also don`t believe baiting "ruined" hunting in Michigan, BUT I DO BELIEVE that much of the behavior and attitudes hunters developed through the OVERUSE of bait DID indeed cause damage to hunting in Michigan.
BTW...the "bait ban" we speak of is just a myth. AT BEST, baiting was reduced during the "ban".
If ANYONE who lives in Michigan can name ONE problem the bait ban solved, I would sure like to hear it.
My hunting spot in southern Michigan is surrounded by cornfields. Baiting there seems pretty silly....
I have killed deer over bait in the past, and it certainly is not true hunting. If it's legal, and a guy needs to put meat in the freezer, have at it. But don't waste your hunting career guarding a pile of corn....
I just wrote my long winded opinion on my blog....
QuoteOriginally posted by Seeking Trad Deer:
I would be very interested to hear Ron LaClair's thoughts on baiting in Michigan.
I've read numerous times where they use bait at his camp when they feel they need to. Just another tool in the toolbox. I have no problem with it if done legally.
When I said before that wide spread legal baiting leads to a sad situation here's what I mean:
In Louisiana people are not throwing out a few piles of bait here and there, they are designing large and small tracts of land around food plots, baiting deer with timed automatic feeders, many different kinds of attractants and cameras to tell them where to hunt and when.
This is a process that hunters have been improving on for at least 30 years here, so there are two generations of hunters that know of no other way, the majority of them. The tactics that start with land designed around feeders and food plots, all the way down to high tech tree stands, laser assisted range finders mounted on bows, etc.
To many hunters here, this IS deer hunting, and the idea of going onto public land where there is no bait, and the land is not designed for hunters seems like a crap shoot to them.
Baiting becomes a moral issue when we talk about it, and many people think of it as an individual moral issue. But the big picture is that the majority of hunters here now understand that the deer hunting consists of essentially attracting deer to where you hunt. And that is a sad situation IMO.
Years ago when I started bow hunting I read an article about a guy that hunted in the MS delta who had managed to kill a lot of very nice bucks on public land there with a bow. He was a guy who worked seasonal work, and was off a lot of hunting season. He said in the article there are two approaches to killing big bucks - you could spend a lot of time hunting, or spend a lot of money at it. Today, most people down here only see one way... spend a lot of money - the baiting way.
Im not sure there is specifically a "good" defense against widespread baiting in areas like northern Michigan. That being said I do know I have managed to distance myself from it by simply distancing myself from it... Now what I mean is I located the bait sites others established and put as much distance as I could between me and those sites. Granted people have come in late and put new bait sites in that I couldnt have known about but for the most part if you get away from the easy access areas (truck and ATV access) you can find some reasonably undisturbed hunting.
Now to play the devils advocate I must point out a somewhat obvious truth of getting away from all of this "easy hunting". You simply wont see as many deer as those guys sitting on bait, bait is effective even if it does condition deer to come out later in the day. Ive heard of a lot of guys that didnt specifically agree with baiting try to go without it only to eat crow and start dumping corn because they werent seeing the quantity of deer they had when baiting for them.
Pardon the interruption but whether it's acorns, apples, wheat or corn feeders the deer around here eat late in the day right around sundown. Dealing with the shot or no shot decision at dusk is just deer hunting not a baiting issue.