craig built howard hill tembo gets trashed by usps ... :banghead:
yes, thick walled pvc tube w/screwed-in plywood end caps.
yes, insured - and now the real fun begins. :mad:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/IMGP3698.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/IMGP3694.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/IMGP3697.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/IMGP3696.jpg)
Don't let them give you static about the shipping container!!!!
What a BUMMER!!!!! :( :( :(
Wow! What could they have done to do that to pvc?
Unbelievable....
I will be interested in the outcome of this tragedy!
Shoot straight, Shinken
:archer2:
Won't be a problem with USPS if it was insured properly. With UPS you would be a year and probably never get your money.
I've never had a problem with filing a claim and getting paid with USPS.
Mike
all the "paperwork" for the shipping and insurance was done online. just filed the online insurance claim, with images added. i always ship with full insurance. this time it should pay off. we'll see.
man, it hadda take something nasty to make that kinda crush in thick walled pvc.
Now that is scary. :scared: A near bulletproof PVC tube bent like that. It takes alot of force to do that to PVC.
Sorry about your bow Rob. I hope you get it sorted out quick and have her replacement in hand asap.
That's tough to look at alright. Was it thin walled PVC or schedule 40?
I guess it really doesn't matter if you ship it in a cardboard box or pvc tube? There's always a chance it will get trashed. It's a shame to see a nice bow get destroyed. I hope they don't give ya the run around when trying to collect. Good luck Rob.
QuoteOriginally posted by bolong:
That's tough to look at alright. Was it thin walled PVC or schedule 40?
schedule 40 pvc. if it was light walled drain pipe, that wouldn't be a crush, it'd be a severing! yikes!!!!
Wow!!! Sorry for your headache!
That had to be regular pvc drainage pipe. I'm pretty sure schedule 40 would have just shattered.
I guess I have been lucky, I have never had a problem...Yet! I hope I never do. To bad it had to happen but I hope the insurance you had is going to make it right! Looked like a nice bow!
QuoteOriginally posted by GMASIUK:
That had to be regular pvc drainage pipe. I'm pretty sure schedule 40 would have just shattered.
i'm sure it was 40 -- it wasn't that thin walled drainpipe plastic. i cut that tubing to length on a bandsaw - it was purty thick walled.
The shippers have the technology to break any container; that's why insurance is so important. Bummer of a thing to have happen.
That is thin walled, schedule 40 will break but not bend either way that just stinks even if you get money for new bow that stinks. Good luck I feel for ya.
If that is 3" or 4" schedule 40 PVC I would like to see a video of how it happened. Almost unbelievable.
This bow was sent to me. and I can tell you it IS sch40. Has enyone ever TRIED to bend this stuff? And this was my first H.H. bow. Rob thanks for handling this matter. I sent you a pm. Burt
wow, ive been using usps for 4 years without an incident(knock on wood). cant imagine how they did that. hope everything goes well with usps.
good luck, jim
That just hurts to look at...I'm not ashamed to say I probably would have shed a tear or two!
Josh
That sure does suck. Keep us informed Rob.
That is some scarey piece of pipe! I've never seen it bend that way. I thought SCH. 40 had a crush strength of 3000 psi.
I usually have no problems with USPS but I loathe UPS and will avoid them at all costs. I had a large shipment of vintage audio gear destroyed by UPS only to learn that if you win the damage claim they send the payment to the shipper. So I paid for merchandise, cost of shipping, and the cost of insurance. The low life that sold me the goods took my money and the check from UPS and promptly disappeared on me! Only time I have ever been taken for a ride in an online transaction. Sadly it was one of my largest also. :mad:
That had to be done maliciously....I can't believe that would happen in the normal course of shipping unless they ran a forklift over it...and there's no tire tracks on the tube... :(
Yikes! Good Luck to yah Rob :eek:
What a bummer. Hope you get your money back Rob.
Sure would be interesting to know exactly how someone managed to do that.
What a shame mate ! And Such a beautiful bow too !
I am dubious as to how that could have been done in normal transit with that big poly pipe ... someone went wrong somewhere big time !
Hope it works out for you .
Insurance or not, I feel sorry for you and Craig.
if i had to guess i would say someone slammed the tractor tralior door closed on it, highly doubt it was the route driver.
Gone, but not forgotten. :(
RIP "Sheba" .... 2/11/2011 - 8/8/2011
A good gal done wrong.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/sheba.jpg)
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
Gone, but not forgotten. :(
RIP "Sheba" .... 2/11/2011 - 8/8/2011
A good gal done wrong.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/sheba.jpg)
I'm Sorry Rob..... I really am....
But that is funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
Wow that took some hit, cant imagine what might have hit it. May she R.I.P.
QuoteOriginally posted by sunny hill archer:
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
Gone, but not forgotten. :(
RIP "Sheba" .... 2/11/2011 - 8/8/2011
A good gal done wrong.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/sheba.jpg)
I'm Sorry Rob..... I really am....
But that is funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: [/b]
that was the tongue-in-cheek post's intent, sorta. ;)
QuoteOriginally posted by sunny hill archer:
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
Gone, but not forgotten. :(
RIP "Sheba" .... 2/11/2011 - 8/8/2011
A good gal done wrong.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/sheba.jpg)
I'm Sorry Rob..... I really am....
But that is funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: [/b]
That made me chuckle quite a bit as well :biglaugh:
No trailer door can do that to sch 40 PVC... that took a controlled bend with restraint on one end....
Sorry Rob no disrespect ment with my first statement, I'm not trying to start anything. It's just that I was surprised to see S-40 bend like that. I do hope it works out for you. Again sorry for your loss, Glen
That's a sad sad deal. Way to ruin a true piece of art.
I have never seen sch 40 bend either.
sch40 wont bend like that it will break it had to be sch 10 or sdr35 none the less it stinks ship in sch 40 only.the plumber
Not doubting it's not shedule 40 p.v.c. but from being a plumber most my life I would like to also let many of you know schedule 40 p.v.c. is made in what most of you see as a solid core or Foam core...Most of the Foam core that I have seen and used has black writing on it and the solid all the way through has red writing on it...Foam core can shatter also but I've also seen it kink like the photo or crushed so to speak...One way to know if it's foam core is by the weight...If you had a 10 foot piece of solid and a ten foot pc. of foam core you will tell...The foamcore could be used in a house just like the solid p.v.c. but wasn't aloud to be used under ground by some county codes due to crushing ...Some guys will still use it underground and turn the writing facing down so inspecters wouldn't know the difference if they ran out of solid core...Also when cutting it with a saw you will be able to tell the difference..So I think it is a possibility it's schedule 40 but foam core ....Now thinwall is another story...Oh and foamcore is less expensive then solid...God Bless, Keefer's <><
Holy cow Rob! Those are indeed some graphic images. Sorry to hear about your loss!!
Huntschool, you are on the right track. I have not seen all the steps on moving parcels, just the unloading of BMCs from the truck at the local post office. As a carrier, I have not seen the opportunity for such a mishap at the local level. I would have to really think hard and work even harder to do it with the equipment that I use daily. An engine of some sort would be a plus.
This looks like a large conveyance full of parcels was being moved, and this parcel slipped partway out somehow and got caught by a doorway or supporting structure. The particulars of handling large amounts of parcels between General Mail Facilities, as I said, I have not seen. My post office was closed and its operations were moved to a GMF, so I hope to learn more firsthand through observation once we settle in and get routines to be a little more.. uh, routine.
Killdeer
thats a real bummer
whats it gonna take to safely ship a bow?
4x6 steel tubing with the end caps welded on
:( I liked that bow... (And now a moment of silence)
...
KHALVERSON,
Sounds like the best way but the Feds will be all over that one...They will think it's an explosive device... :scared:
QuoteOriginally posted by KHALVERSON:
thats a real bummer
whats it gonna take to safely ship a bow?
4x6 steel tubing with the end caps welded on
Don't know much about USPS, but UPS can destroy anything. You could cast your shipment inside an iron cannonball, and they could tear it up.
If you go look at the reviews for Lodge cast iron skillets on various sites, you will notice a lot of people receive them broken. It takes some effort to break a cast iron skillet.
This completely sucks for both the seller and the buyer. Looks to me like the tube was pinned behind something very large and heavy and yanked on REALLY hard to pull it out. Or it was used as a prybar, which is unfortunately possible as well.
The real question is why was "Sheba" in the mail to begin with, Rob? You were so pumped when she arrived not all that long ago.
Hey Rob, I noticed in product review a thread about a Bambahunter L/b. can we make a deal? Thanks for everything Burt
QuoteOriginally posted by mrjsl:
QuoteOriginally posted by KHALVERSON:
thats a real bummer
whats it gonna take to safely ship a bow?
4x6 steel tubing with the end caps welded on
Don't know much about USPS, but UPS can destroy anything. You could cast your shipment inside an iron cannonball, and they could tear it up.
If you go look at the reviews for Lodge cast iron skillets on various sites, you will notice a lot of people receive them broken. It takes some effort to break a cast iron skillet. [/b]
Yup, that's how the first atom was split.
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Someone shipped it via UPS
Damn Rob. Sorry to see that happen, man.
It'd take machinery, ingenuity & a decent amount of time to kink sch40, especially with a broom handle inside it
That's amazing. It looks as if they must have done that on purpose to cause thay kind of damage. Tragic.
I am sick looking at those pictures. Hope that it isn't too much of a headache on the insurance claim.
Unbelieveable!!! Hate to see that, I would expect that to happen with cardboard, but man, pvc.
Heres hoping all works out for ya.
Eric.
Marketing decision. It is cheaper for UPS to (slowly) pay the occasional claim, than it is for them to slow down and take care. Kind of like settling out of court, because it is cheaper in the long run.
That said, it is too bad a future classic collectible is now DOA.
RonP
Makes you wonder if you would be better off with a flimsy cardboard box with FRAGILE stamped all over it. :dunno: I am sure someone handling a PVC tube wouldn't give much thought to being too awful careful with it. I feel reasonably safe with USPS based on experience, but with UPS, again based on experience, I just figure better packing equals a bigger challenge to trash it.
I have never used the sch 40 foam core, but that sure would explain it. I have been in construction 35 years, and have never seen that with std sch 40 even when run over by dozers and heavy trucks. Now I have also worked with the gray electrical PVC conduit. That will bend some and when heated can be bent a lot. Maybe it sat in a hot trailer out on the pavement for a day or so in some of this really hot temps with something heavy setting on it or something. It could be some made in China PVC pipe. :rolleyes:
that kind of stuff just pisses me off in about 6 different ways.
Good luck with insurance. It is sort of like dealing with health insurance claims - a run around. If I've ever seen a case they can't get around it's this one. I lost out on some broken arrows and after that horrendous experience have always thought insurance was a rip-off (it's always the packaging or you can't prove if something is lost).
I just got a bow last week and even though well packaged the whole end of the box came crushed - thank God when I opened it the bow was pushed against the other end and it was on the backside of the curve (and was well wrapped inside). I thought it was a goner looking at the box.
What a joke, just shows how little the people working there care when they break it and put it back in the line.
I'm really scared now my Miller longbow is on its way via UPS and I just found out they lost my shipping details, if it turns up looking like that it wont be all they lose. :mad: :deadhorse:
wow thats shocking
each of us has to ask the question "how much protection for shipping a stick bow is required?"
imo, even the thinner drainpipe pvc will be more than enuf to handle getting thrown around, slammed about and dropped from the top of a loading dock. a cardboard box (rectangular or triangular) couldn't handle that kinda abuse for very long. what happened in this case goes far beyond "mishandling". this wasn't a fender bender, it was head on collision at highway speeds. you'd think shipping vendors would take a tad more care.
but what really galls me is they KNEW that THEY destroyed a solid, darned tuff shipping container, and the goods inside, and they still have the NERVE to actually deliver it as if nothing happened.
now that's gotta tell ya something about the us postal service - and the state of business in this current economy. i used to hold the usps a tad higher than the rest of those shippers. :banghead:
Sorry about your bow Rob.
It seems like someone would almost have to put in deliberate effort to damage that tube like that.
I have learned 2 things from 4 pages of this thread: do not use ups to ship, DO use usps. and ups wont pay any claims but usps will?
keep us all posted on how it will work out~
L.R.
Oh my, sorry Rob. Our worst nightmare.
My local postmaster cringes everytime I ship a bow. She says that the better you package it, the more likely it will be damaged because the handlers see the packaging and don't worry about damage. The package gets tossed into a bin or container and bigger, heavier packages are dumped on top of it. A poorly wrapped package is handled more carefully because it is more easily damaged.
WHAT A CRYING SHAME !What a way for a bow to die.So So sorry,hope she works out my friend.
Looks like they ran over it.
Hope it all works out.
UPC code on pipe is for:
CRESLINE PLASTIC PIPE CO SOLID PVC SEWER AND DRAIN PIPE - 3 x 10 - Thin wall - Bell end
I had a untrimmed osage stave about 3" square broken by the USPS as well as several bows. I didn't think anyone could break the stave so I didn't insure it, they broke it. The bows were insured, getting my money was hassle free.
The way it was explained to me was there would be no problems if your item went down the conveyor facing the same way as the conveyor traveled.
If a long item ever got cross ways on the conveyor it would get caught between I beams supporting the conveyor and broken by the weight of packages pushing behind it.
All the damage I saw in my shipped bows was consistent with this type of event.
That's terrible. I wonder what hit it? It would take a heck of a hit to do that kind of damage. It's definitely schedule 40, if it was thin walled it would've splintered. TRW
So, it sounds to me like the best way to ship a bow may be in heavy PVC first, then put that in a really flimsy-looking cardboard box with FRAGILE stamped all over it...????
I have a friend who is a manager with FedEx. When I asked him how damage like this could happen when we talked one time, his explanation was almost exactly like Eric's just above.
Human error + Huge conveyor system in central hub = Broken ______ (bow, steel pipe, fishing pole, or in this case... heart!)
Sorry to hear of this. Hope "the rest of the story" ends up being a good one.
Daryl
Eric- with all that said, it still AMAZES me anyone was able to snap a 3" osage stave! THAT takes some power.
Holy crap! It looks like someone took a battle axe to it!
In defense of the U.S.postal Service, I sent nearly 1000 (if not over) bows since January 2006 I've used carboard cartons, and cardboard tubes, and have never had a bow destroyed and never had to file an insurance claim.
Bad things happen sometimes that bow Rob pictured in this post would have been damaged no matter what it was shipped in (within reason). It got bent over by something big, a truck or a forklift or the like.
Of course had it been shipped in a galvanized steel pipe with caps screwed on the ends it would have been fine, but who does that?
High density poly(HDPE) might be something to look at. Our irrigation system at the golf course that I work at has this. It is stronger than schedule 80 pvc. I also like the idea of putting it in pipe then inside a box. Brian
Insurance, insurance, insurance.
USPS used to voluntarily acknowledge damage on packaging. It's disappointing they didn't this time. FedEx tried to punch a hole in my kayak a month ago. UPS must load things with an excavator. I normally have no trouble with USPS, but yeah, bears repeating: insurance, insurance, insurance.
I'd say high heat + horsepower + some sort of hydraulics.
This won't have a happy ending, but at least it might not be an infuriating one.
i think there's a happy medium of sorts to shipping bows.
what i want to protect against is the typical bumps, smacks, whacks, slaps and drops a long package will experience.
what i think is unreasonable is attempting to protect against stupid carelessness.
schedule 80 is some serious tough pvc and will double the shipping weight at least. i ain't giving those added dollars to a shipper, just to insure they won't kill the package. i don't think schedule 80 would have saved this longbow.
all in all, despite this big faux pas, usps is still the better bow shipping vendor for me. as always, insure Insure INSURE!
Rob- I will double check the HDPE, but I think it weighs less than even sched 40-of course it costs more. I do not know if it would be better for shipping or not. But it is heavy duty- dozers won't even crush it, though there still is some flex to it. But it might be OK to use . I agree that there is no excuse for carelessness. Brian
QuoteOriginally posted by Turkeys Fear Me:
Hope it all works out.
UPC code on pipe is for:
CRESLINE PLASTIC PIPE CO SOLID PVC SEWER AND DRAIN PIPE - 3 x 10 - Thin wall - Bell end
HAH! Someone beat me to it. Typed in the upc to check.
https://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=45397
Crush strength is rated at 3500, of course that is assuming a uniform load.
I've never had Sch40 do anything but shatter on me. I would actually think this stuff would be better.
I was told once that the conveyor systems are meant for cardboard. So while cardboard won't hold up to damage well, it's less likely to get caught and jammed in the system in the first place. So it apparently doesn't hurt to build a tough shipping container then wrap it in cardboard as conveyor camoflage....
:pray:
Rob,
I am sorry for your loss. What a bum deal!
Makes me cringe at the time my $1400.00 custom came in a card board box :scared:
Looks like a fork lift ran over it.
No matter a bow gets shipped in always insure it. It dosent' matter anyway, when you pay a company to get a product to a customer, no matter what you pack it in, it's their responsibility to get it where it needs to go without damage.
I'm thinking forklift, tube pinned against the forward end of the trailer- forklift trying to stick his forks under a pallet - driver not able to quite get there so he pushes the gas to teh floor...that oughta do it!!
QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Hammond:
I'm thinking forklift, tube pinned against the forward end of the trailer- forklift trying to stick his forks under a pallet - driver not able to quite get there so he pushes the gas to teh floor...that oughta do it!!
a viable scenario.
stuff happens.
but when it does, have the ethics to admit ownership and not continue on as if nothing all that bad happened, and continue on to deliver the "goods", like good little mail persons do -
"Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds." - yeesh! :banghead:
Here's a thought, send the USPS a link to this thread. Maybe they should see all the good will they have generated in our community. After all, each one of us is a customer ... even if reluctantly.
I hope it works out for you, that's pretty egregious damage. Not what I want to see when I have a used bow somewhere in the Postal Service.
And a reminder: With USPS, if you are selling a bow (or anything else) you bought used and have no proof of value i.e. a receipt for it, insurance serves no purpose. They will sell it to you, but if the item breaks and you cannot prove its exact cost to you (no matter what you declared on the insurance form), you are out of luck. Been there...
Marco
Rob don,t tell me it was the tembo with the carmelized limbs,I may just have to observe a moment of silence for that beauty.
Wow!!! That would be very disappointing to me,thats the type of pipe I ship my longbows in!That took alot of pressure to crush the tube and break that longbow.
So sorry to see this but not really suprised! I helped out at an archery shop once and witnessed the Fed-Ex guy throw boxed compond bows from the middle of his truck onto the concrete floor in the shop! He was turned in many times but they never did abything about it. Ups wasn't much better.
QuoteOriginally posted by trad_in_cali:
And a reminder: With USPS, if you are selling a bow (or anything else) you bought used and have no proof of value i.e. a receipt for it, insurance serves no purpose. They will sell it to you, but if the item breaks and you cannot prove its exact cost to you (no matter what you declared on the insurance form), you are out of luck. Been there...
Marco
i have the receipt from craig. :D
QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisM:
Rob don,t tell me it was the tembo with the carmelized limbs,I may just have to observe a moment of silence for that beauty.
yes, the very one.
but hey, it's just a bow and not a human or a good dog or a good horse or :D
QuoteOriginally posted by JRY309:
Wow!!! That would be very disappointing to me,thats the type of pipe I ship my longbows in!That took alot of pressure to crush the tube and break that longbow.
QuoteOriginally posted by L. Harris:
So sorry to see this but not really suprised! I helped out at an archery shop once and witnessed the Fed-Ex guy throw boxed compond bows from the middle of his truck onto the concrete floor in the shop! He was turned in many times but they never did abything about it. Ups wasn't much better.
that's the whole point.
that tube would *easily* survive just getting thrown around and dropped.
this is a clear case of total usps lack of care or competence.
What a bummer,At least it wasnt a Mohawk.
QuoteOriginally posted by glenbo:
What a bummer,At least it wasnt a Mohawk.
GIMME A AMEN BRUTHA!!! :bigsmyl:
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisM:
Rob don,t tell me it was the tembo with the carmelized limbs,I may just have to observe a moment of silence for that beauty.
yes, the very one.
but hey, it's just a bow and not a human or a good dog or a good horse or :D [/b]
I was sad to see this. I contacted Rob a few hours after the bow was posted to buy my first Hill, but a sharper mind and faster fingers had wisely snapped it up. Sorry it happened to you!
One thing we always said on the farm through the years when we lost a valued animal, or had financial losses due to disease sweeping through was, "As long as we can keep it out of the house!" It may be important stuff we lose sometimes... but it is still "stuff."
Hope they are fair in settling, and easy to deal with.
Here's to your next good "find" to replace it!
Daryl
man that is terrible!
If that was an ILF bow, it could have been packaged securely in a compact, conveyor friendly package...
:biglaugh:
It was probably a PETA member employee.
took a full month, but it appears the claim has been approved ...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/usps.jpg)
That surprises me, I have had one bow break that was sent to me and the owner had a check in his hand in less than a week. BUT, You got it(well,almost).
Chuck
Glad to hear it seems to be working out. And a good note to remember on a receipt or invoice.
Happy for you!
Good news Rob!
I'm glad they made things right Rob! So... How soon until you call Craig for the replacement :D ?
They ought to take their forklifts away. They don't seem to be old enough to play with them.
Ever wonder where Sumo wrestlers and ultimate Fighters end up? Maybe freight handling is theri ultimate retirement job.
Sorry Rob, it's a shame to see a good bow distroyed.
Here is some food for thought about using any kind of Pipe or even the round cardboard tubes for that matter....
The main reason these have more tendency to get dropped or damaged is that they roll..... These packages get moved in seriously high volumes using conveyor belts and machinery. Using these round pipes and tubes pretty much guarantee they are going to roll around unless you improvise.
The best thing you can do if you feel the need to use round shipping containers is to tape a couple light weight blocks of wood on the pipe so it wont roll around.
i think those triangular shaped USPS tubes are the best ones they provide. They don't get stuff stacked on top of them and always end up on top of the pile just like the round tubes do.... only they don't roll off the top.
i started building wood crates for my one piece bows out of cedar and paneling. they are light weight and pretty darn tough.
sorry to hear about the loss of the bow Rob. glad to see they came through with the ins. claim so quickly. :)
just got the insurance check from the post office - they even included the shipping! :thumbsup:
Glad that they made good on this.
I've had very good luck the only 2 times I had to file a claim with the USPS. One time I sent my Dad his air pistol back from Germany through the APO system - registered and insured. Never arrived and they payed me. 6 months later, my dad got a notice from the US Customs office they had a package for him. Guess what it was :-)
I did receive a statement from a broker not long ago that they sold some stock. Couldn't tell what they sold or for how much - the letter was ripped in half. Stamped on the remainder of the envelope was "received in damaged condition". Now that takes a sense of humor!
Ups uses an outside insurance carrier,they broke one of our bows in-half in the riser and took them to court but they would not pay.We use USPS with on problem.
Really Glad they Made Good on It!! :saywhat:
Sorry for your loss. But having been a pilot for the last 22 years I do know how this can happen. Large quantities of cargo are shipped via air or by truck on pallets that can weigh up to one ton. Sometimes when the cargo is not secured propery, the pallets or large containers can shift, or the contents within the containers can shift with any abrupt stop or maneuver by the vehicle they are transported in. It takes a very large force to bend sched. 40 pvc like that, but when a 500 lb. oil drill bit slams into it, that is how these things happen as an example.----Definitely neglegence on their part.
I agree, "Doo-Doo Happens" but you would think for the Pricey Charges We as "Consumers" Pay for Shipping, and this is NOT a Bad Reflection on the "Producers", the Freight Companies SHOULD , notice SHOULD , be "Doo-Doo'Less". Ya know?? :readit:
We ALL Only Be Human, realize this, and like was said, I am Really Glad it ALL came out for the GOOD!! :clapper: :clapper: Just yet Another Daily Hassle for Us :rolleyes: to deal With! Are We Havin' FUN YET??? hahahaha :biglaugh: