I have the "privilege" of living up nort' here in Duluth, MN, which gives me the "pleasure" of enjoying Mother Nature's coldest of days. I have been a layering fool, numerous Polypro's, insulated bibs, etc. O' course, now that I am putting down the compound for the most part, I need to do some research on warm bulky clothes. I apologize if that dead horse has been flogged already but a feller what don't know is a feller that maybe oughta ask someone. So here you are reading this-here thread. so I'm a askin': Is Wool the way to go, is the Polypro polar weight the best I can expect, or do I need to be steered in another direction? Please help a feller out.
Thanks much in advance,
TomBow o' da nort'
Wool for me,was huntin in single digit temps last season and made it good in wool
Wool with layering is the way I hunted when I lived in AK
I have a KOM coat which is very warm.If I lived in MN I would get a Heater Body Suit.I used my friends here in NJ which doesn't get as cold as MN and it was great!If you are going to sit all day look into that.
man last year in Ga we had a cold snap single digits and WIND... but i'm in the woods in my asbell vest, pullover and windblocker vest and UA cold gear.
bottoms Army wool pants, poly and UA cold gear sinched with some mukaluks and that is honestly the warmest i've ever been in temps like that... didn't sweat but farrrr from cold.... In my opinion ASBELL has it figured out!
I hunt 30 miles from Duluth in Wisconsin, dark to dark during the rut in November and a good number of days in December. All wool for me, in layers, mostly KOM, but any good wool will do. In addition to it's insulating properties, it's extremely quiet and doesn't retain body odors and stink like the plastic materials. Only drawback is it won't stop a stiff wind. A wind stopping underlayer will do that though.
Fell totally in love last year with my new Gray Wolf Woolens lined and insulated vest in Predator Fall Gray.
Orion said it best when he said layers of wool. We wear Ulfrotte' 400 gr longjohns underneath top and bottom, then a heavy wool sweater and then my vest. Hunted in 10 degrees and 10-15 MPH wind with no problems. Nice thin bow arm sleeve too thanks to the vest. JMHO
Swandri from NZ is the very best. Expensive but great.
I prefer the warmth without the bulk. My Sitka Kelvin vest is much warmer than my Hidden Wolf lined and windstopper wool vest at a fraction of the weight. Look into the Sitka Kelvin as an insulating layer, the new Fanatic jacket and bib as an extremely warm outer layer, or the ultimate in warmth, the goose down filled and quiet gore tex shell of the Incinerator jacket and bib. I have a bunch of wool sitting in the closet since Sitka started designing gear for the whitetail hunter. Their original stuff was made for active hunting and it was not warm at all. Anything with the Optifade Forest pattern is made for sitting.
I am a huge wool proponent. It doesn't make me itch, I layer well so it isn't bulky, I love it.
I use a lot of Asbell, Woolrich, and Filson wool.The Asbell wool is the best value, IMHO.
I'm not disagreeing with those who utilize synthetics (I know that Steve O's Sitka gear is top quality), I just prefer the natural feel of wool.
I live in Moorhead, MN which is right on the ND border and every December I hunt in temperatures reaching negative teens. Coldest I ever hunted in was -18 degrees. And there is always wind up here on the prairie. Ten years ago I bought a Heater Body Suit, and it is without a doubt the best money I have spent on clothing. Don't care how many layers of wool you have on, sitting still in a treestand at -10 with a ten mph wind is impossible for more than an hour or two. I can sit in my HBS with a few chem hand warmers, all day if I want.
Keep the wind stopper layer towards the outside of the layers.
Had Kom now all I use is Sitka Gear it is by far the warmest system I have ever worn. It is not just a warm clothes issue for me however. It is about the thickness and the ability to move freely to be able to easily shoot your bow. For that Sitka is the best great warmth and manuverability.
How you dress is just as important as what you have on. Those heater suit things look neet but I would still go with layers. The less bulk the better.
On cold days I ALWAYS put wool next to my skin. Period.
A mid-layer like a schoeller dri-wear works great and durable + it cuts the wind better than a woolie. Then on the outside something quiet and not too bulky. I switch between a wool hoodie a woolrich jack shirt and a WP camo layer depending on what's in store.
Had Kom now all I use is Sitka Gear it is by far the warmest system I have ever worn. It is not just a warm clothes issue for me however. It is about the thickness and the ability to move freely to be able to easily shoot your bow. For that Sitka is the best great warmth and manuverability.
If your gonna be sittin' you can't beat a Heater Body Suit. You'll be money ahead in the end cause you won't need much else. Check 'em out.
For really cold temps no amount of layering is practical IF YOU SIT, once you're layered up it's too sweaty to walk in. And if you carry your layers to put on at the stand it takes a long time and you freeze while doing it. The heater suit idea is ideal. The problem with them is you have to open them up and take them off your shoulders to shoot, not a good idea in extreme cold. And really not a good idea at anytime seeing as how much movement is necessary before the shot.
I made my own "heater suit" it's a lot more workable than the ones they sell. Mine has legs so I can walk a bit in it and great big booties to put over my felt paks. It also has arm holes so I don't have to take it off to shoot. The arm holes have a flap of material covering them from the inside to help keep the heat inside.
The coldest I've hunted in was -25c/-13f with a wind while standing on a metal treestand. For merely cold say -15c/5f layers work and you can move around nicely too. Your feet won't get cold if you're walking but mine kill me if I sit. The disposable heating insoles work nicely but only for about an hour before they quit. I like layers of wool and fleece combined, with a Helly Hansen base layer.
The biggest problem with cold weather hunting is once you have enough bulk to keep warm it's much harder to get the shot off with all that clothing on.
I dump most of my wool when it gets cold and switch to down, microfibers and fur. I know the wool lovers will howl in anguish but wool isn't enough below -20 unless you're moving. The weight of wool necessary to equal down in warmth makes it way too heavy. I've experimented with heavy felted wool and have a jacket that's almost an inch thick, it's warm but way too heavy and no where near as warm as a down jacket.....so I've tried but the wool won't cut it for me.
I haven't done it yet but I think a pop up blind is the way to hunt in extreme cold. Even without a heater it will at least give a bit of a "heat envelope" and will certainly cut the wind.
Not all whool is the same try to visit KOM and look for the STANDMASTER,it can handle any kind of weather,you can understand it from the destription!
QuoteOriginally posted by Roadkill:
Wool with layering is the way I hunted when I lived in AK
same in the alps in winter !
I have KOM and its not warm enough when it gets really cold unless you use the insulated type. Layering gets bulky one thinsulate parka will give you more warmth than several layers of wool.I use a gander Mt. guide parka with thinsulate wind proof and quite ,I stay warm way below zero. Keeping the feet warm is harder than the body....Tim
Wool. Gore Tex and other synthetics are great in certain conditions wool works better in a lot more. I always get a chuckle out of conversations about heavy clothing. There ain't no such thang! Unless we are talking about the Army extreme weather boot.
The Heater Body Suit has legs and big "pouches" to put your feet in. It doesn't take hardly any movement to open and shoot. Opening the zipper is the most movement, and you're movement is hidden inside the suit. Then all you do is reach out, grab your bow, extend your arms and when you draw to shoot the suit falls down off your shoulders. Nothing to it. :bigsmyl:
The problem I see with the heater suit as it's made is that you have to get out of it to shoot. I don't know about you but I've had deer come close them mosey around for 45 minutes before either coming close enough for a shot or leaving. Since you can wear much lighter clothes in the heater suit it means sitting there with the thing open to the elements while you freeze and wait for the shot. Otherwise I think it's a pretty good thing...though not as good as mine :thumbsup: Don't worry I'm not trying to sell mine, so the heater suit is the next best thing.
Wool in the alps or anywhere else in the world is fine if you're moving but it aint fine for sitting long periods of time in very cold temps.
When it gets down to about 15 F. I watch the Outdoor Channel.
not going to lie, I wooled it up this past season and froze my rear end off when the wind hit hard. This year I'm getting that Predator Fleece with windblock for my outer layer. I'll wear the wool underneat if I need to.
I bought myself a kidney belt and a neck gaitor that has the pockets for the heat packs. I've read that keeping the kidneys and lower back warm is key to keeping the rest of the body warm.
Once I went to wool many years ago I never looked back. A drawback is when you hunt in areas with burrs, tags and other seeds that stick to them the warmth is worth that price when it is needed.
Under arwour Cold weather gear next layer Poly prroplene Then wool Then coverd up with a good wind proof layer.
I'm in Minnesota as well, tried the wool and froze my arz off. Tried the Under Armor cold gear and froze my arz off (if your exercising it's good). The body suit looks like a sleeping bag (no thanks) I use the fuzzy poly long johns cabelas sell (looks like fleece - brown) warmest stuff out there (made from pop bottles or something). I don't think there is anything stopping cold in December here - I've tried it all. Browning XPO jacket and bibs are the warmest I've tried - but you can't walk or you sweat. The ASAT ultimate works well and it's what I prefer - but cold is cold.
Surprising what a few chem heat packs tucked in strategic areas can do.
QuoteOriginally posted by Zradix:
Surprising what a few chem heat packs tucked in strategic areas can do.
thats my plan Z.
http://www.papaswarehouse.com/-strse-43/back-pain-relief-soothing/Detail.bok
http://www.papaswarehouse.com/-strse-148/cold-ears-warm-head/Detail.bok
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=hot+hands+handwarmer+muff&hl=en&prmd=ivns&resnum=3&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1024&bih=630&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=4110900618845296832&s a=X&ei=EAk7TqzWHYbn0QGj35zWAw&ved=0CE4Q8gIwAA (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=hot+hands+handwarmer+muff&hl=en&prmd=ivns&resnum=3&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1024&bih=630&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=4110900618845296832&sa=X&ei=EAk7TqzWHYbn0QGj35zWAw&ved=0CE4Q8gIwAA)
I have done well by focusing on the base layers made up of merrino wool. If your near a Gander then try scent blocker layers about 230weight wool and nylon mix doesnt shrink up like some i.e justin charles. ice breaker also makes good bases. I have used them dog sledding in Ely MN area Jan-Mar with good success. Important to be able to sit in cold and snow without getting wet wool helps
I to prefer to sit when hunting and as calgarychef writes I look for the down filled clothes,when the temp goes to -25c and if possible out of the wind. I will try the portable ground blind this fall to help. Maybe not necessary to bulk up on clothes this way. Maxx
Cabelas standhunter bibs and jacket over quilted longjohns over ecwcs longjohns works for me
If you are stand hunting,HEATER BODY SUIT,nothing better.
I can shoot with a down vest on with all the layers with no issues. It just has to be under something or its too noisy. something to think about.
One of the biggest issues with layering as stated is that you sweat when your moving and its a pain to layer up on stand. The key for me is to put two layers together before you put them on and store them in the pack like that (if possible). To be cold when I'm moving doesn't bother me as much as cold when sitting. To be warm the whole time means you're likely going to sweat which eventually means freezing. I'm in agreement that a mixture is likely better than just all wool.
I know Sitka's earliest attempts at cold-weather gear fell a little short of some folks' expectations (including mine), but the Kelvin, Stratus, Fanatic and Incinerator are the cat's bottom and the ultra-cold weather bowhunter should take a long, hard look at these items.
I already had the Kelvin insulative top and bottom layers, and when I felt the Fanatic Jacket, I felt it could actually be too warm. I bought the Stratus Jacket and figure that when layered over the Kelvin and with a couple core layers, I can't imagine not being totally toasty in zero-type weather. And wearing just the Stratus jacket will be perfect in cool weather.
I did spring for the Fanatic bibs, because of the longer leg zips and the fact that I usually carry them in and dress once at my tree.
I've not yet put my hands on the Incinerator, but its supposed to be super warm with Gore-tex for moisture.
I will add that my little brother is a guide in MB and AB and swears by the Heater Body Suit for his deer hunters, but 98% of them are gun hunters. I know the HBS is used by many bowhunters, but I think now that Sitka has got this ultra-cold weather stuff covered with the Fanatic/Stratus/Kelvin or Incinerator.
In the interest of full disclosure, I am a Sitka rep, but also one of them that told them the Celsius line was NOT warm enough. They've answered the call now.
THANK YOU, Wow, for all the responses. The Heater suit looks good for sitting but I have to consider the shooting options. I'm not just sitting in the tree at -10 for fun, I'm there to shoot a deer so planning for the shot has to be considered.
As far as the chemical warmers, I should own stock because I probably spend $200 or better each season, pair on top of toes, pair under toes, pair in the muff, one or two body ones on my back and or chest. I have wondered about the electric vest and socks, any info there?
I will look into all suggestions given. Was wondering about army surplus wool? Worth looking into or not?
Thanks again,
Best of Luck,
May your blood trails be short,
TomBow
Electric Socks - remember when they first came out, you were to put two D size batteries on each sock (I still laugh today about that). Most likely now they use something practical - never tried that stuff.
Side note - I guess they have vests you can put into the freezer, get them cold and then wear them to keep cool (motorcycle thing)for 8 hours, anyway, why not something that stays warm, microwave it for 5 minutes and keeps you warm for 8 hours - you guys work on that and when it weighs less than 4 lbs -- I'll take one.
Look at Asbell's site. The wind blocker vest plus some layering. Also Ron LaClaire has some goos wool.
I buy what I can off of eB^y cheap. Color does not matter if it is an under or middle layer. Also, some Good Will stores have cheap stuff.
Those chemical hand warmers that you boil to recharge are sure nice but they only last about 20 minutes, they do put out gobs of heat though. My wife buys the small hand warmers by the case for me at christmas, you can put them in a plastic bag and "shut them off" if you haven't used them up. I have electris socks but the battery pack is too bulky to get into my boot. I think they have improved over the years and I'd like to give them a good try.
We haven't talked much about fur:
The warmest mitts I have are native made out of coyote fur and lined with wool blanket material. I've sat at -30C (while rifle hunting) and my hands were fine. I might look at making some fur mucklucks, I think that might be the answer to my cold feet. Another Idea I've had is to go to the "goodwill" stores and fine a nice big fur coat, I'm pretty sure it would be as good as a lot of the modern miracle materials, and deadly silent too. Finally I have a muskrat hat that's dang ugly, but my head and ears never get cold with it, and my head doesn't get itchy after wearing it extensively like a wool toque would.
I would get Sitka if they made ladies sizes. Until then, I wear wool and love it!
Sitka has a new 'Incinerator Muff' that is really something else, and IMO reasonably priced for what you get. The angle on it is perfect and there are great cuffs on it and two internal pockets for hand warmers also.
I would have bought one this year but have an old muff made for me by my taxidermist brother out of leftover hide/fur from a buffalo mount. That baby is a little bulky but wow is it warm.
TwoTracks wool vest. Felted wool. THE BEST! I have KOM, I have Asbell, and they are nice, but...when it gets REALLY cold, they just don't cut it. I hunted in 20 below weather this last year, for extended periods of time, with less bulk underneath and stayed comfortable and mobile. Really cold weather=Two Tracks Wool. He also has boot insoles and I hear may have a cap ready this year also.
Silk skivvies and wool outers.
I will add LaClair's Longhunter shirt if you are thinking about wool. I have the heavy grey and love it. Kept me warm in nasty weather with just a hoody under it. I stayed out longer than planned (cause I was warm) and got a monster of a buck. It is nice looking and a great price. I was on the ground against a fallen tree in the grey and the buck never saw me.