Let start by say my normal setup has been working fine. A Beman Bowhunter 300 cut to 31.25" with 250gr up front. The FOC is 20% and they bareshaft like a dream. I just thought I'd like to try for alittle more FOC.
Well, to cut to the chase I started out by cutting the bare shaft to 30.5". That's only 3/4", what could that hurt?
Daaaaaa,,,, one of my cardinal rules is to never cut over a 1/2" at one time......
Anyway, after switching to a 315gr point and taking few shots the shaft was showing way too stiff.
Now I pull out the GT brass 20gr weights. Add two and try again. Not,,,, still too stiff. I keep adding weights and shooting until the shaft shoots clean.
OK,,Now lets see what I have. 315gr point, 21gr insert, 12 ea. 20gr weights, shaft and nock. After fletching with 4" fletching it shoots great. My FOC is really great, 30.3%.
Only problem,,, the silly thing tipps the scales at 888grs.
Guess I have a start if I ever want to go after cape or asian buffalo..... :-) :-) :-)
Troy
(the big dummy that needs to think before cutting)
Haha live and learn I guess. You never know til you try?
Yea, I was really hoping to get a high FOC, but not the weight. Jumping the gun cost me alot of time more than anything.
Troy
This old adage comes to me.
"If it isn't broke, don't fix it".
:nono:
be a good sqirrel arrow, it wont go far...
arrow30,
It's really amazing how much flatter a UEFOC arrow flies compared to just overall weight. I used to make and shoot 800+ hickory arrows. Them puppies would drop like a rock....
When I started I thought I might end up with a max 700gr arrow with close to 30% FOC and that would have been fine.
Troy
Pop used to tell me, "Boy, ya cut it 3 times and it's STILL too short!"
I resemble that comment and "been there done what you did"
Found carbons can show big changes in 1/4" or 1/2" depending on set up!
I cut my last dozen to short too. I wasn't messing with weight I just started getting proper alignment and added an inch to my draw. Oh well gave me an excuse to buy some Surewood Fir's for the first time lol
if they fly good shoot em. your still only about 500+ grains light according to monty browning. :) that dude shoots some HEAVY arrows. no doubt they will blow thru our ohio whitetails.
Yep learned my lesson as well building up some heavy arrows, thought I would just install 2-100gr inserts and cutting about 2in off should be about right, uhm no, not even close way too stiff and not matter what I did could not get them close, so lost 3 arrows to that screw up! Apparently adding that much insert length inside the shaft really took alot of flex out of the arrow and could not get them anywhere close with any reasonable tip weight.
Carbon is really sensible to the lenght,half inch is a huge change.
When I bareshaft I cut small, 1/8 at a time and when I start getting close I cut even smaller until I am there. The CE heritage shafts are very sensitive to a length change, much more so that a change in tip weight.
I normally only cut about 1/8" at a time. For some reason my brain went into time out mode.
Troy
Well it's good you only cut up one arrow........right????
KentuckyTJ,
Thank goodness I only cut one. My supply of 300's isn't that big.
Troy
All's not lost ...add an aluminum "foot" with insert to the length ya want and give that a go....
You are Ok-that is important. Many other experienters are hurt. You only hurt a shafts choir pride
Old Man Breeding, That's what you get for living on the "Dark Side" too long. That and the fact you left the Heart of Dixie!!
ASTB Soot comming up soon, ya commin'?
JAG/Johnny
QuoteOriginally posted by cacciatore:
Carbon is really sensible to the lenght,half inch is a huge change.
Agreed. I shoot the same arrows (but 340's) as the original poster and even 1/4 inch cuts are a lot. I can see the difference from weak to stiff by adding or subtracting just 10 grains at the tip too. My arrow length that works is 1/4 inch shorter or longer than the ones that do not, same weight up front.
Joshua
Johnny,
It's hot enough around here. Don't want to deal more.
Troy
jhg,
After cutting the shaft to length I knew I had screwed up. You always know you did it wrong,,,, after the fact.
Troy
Adding just the longer brass 100 grain insert compared to the short aluminum one is a big difference. Almost enough to make up for the heavier weight.The longer insert takes the bend out of near an inch of shaft.RC
Dat is one heck of a bunny buster !
You could kill a deer by just dropping that arrow from the tree over him!
Bunny Buster,,, lol lol lol lol
Yep,, drop on a deer and if nothing else it would break his back... lol lol lol
Troy
You may possibly be getting a false reading when using the 312 grain point at 29.75".
If you do not anticipate using that arrow and if you can possibly work down to 29", then you may find it was at least, worth a shot.
Friend,
Kinda thought the same thing myself so I dropped some of the weights behind the insert and shaft shot stiff. When I added more weight it shot weak so I think the reading is prtty true.
I hade hoped to end up with an arrow that ranged from 650-700grs. and had a high FOC. Just didn't think cutting 3/4" off a shaft would change the dynamic spine as much as it did. My current arrows weigh in at 605grs and are 31.25".
Troy
What's the problem? :D It sounds like you have created a nearly perfect buffalo arrow -- assuming it would shoot well out of a 70 pound or greater bow!!!!! The only drawbacks I see are the trouble and expense of adding the 12 weights and the lack of the footing that Montauks suggests. With the right broadhead, that setup would be the bomb for Africa or Australia. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Allan
Talked to Ed Ashby about the set up and he says it's dang near perfect. The weight and UEFOC would be great for buff if I was pulling 65+ lbs. Don't think I want to try it with the 55# bow I'm shooting. For everything I hunt here in OH I'm thinking it's a bit overkill.
Troy
Troy,
Not surpising that it took an arrow with ~35# less required spine for you set-up to tune with an Ultra-EFOC arrow - Quite typical.
Same length arrows will tune at least two different places. Your current set-up and Ultra-EFOC. Thirty to thiry-five pounds less of the required dynamic spine generally gets me in the ball park when building Ultra-EFOC arrows.
I still suspect you may be getting a false reading when using the 312 grain point at 30.5".
If you do not anticipate using that arrow and if you can possibly work down to 29.75", then you may find it was at least, worth a shot.
Note: I read your post incorrectly regarding your final arrow length. Also, I could not come close to the 605 gn wt using ICS 300 Hunter's at 31.25" w/ 250 up front.
Best of luck!!
Troy,I think as you added weights behind the insert and they kept getting closer to your balance point,they were having less affect as opposed to that weight being at the insert or point.It normally wouldn't take that much weight to compensate for 3/4".If you want to build an arrow like that in the 650-700 gr range,get some Victory V Force HV 3 shafts in .300 spine.Use a 100 gr brass adapter and your point weight would be app 300 grs,give or take,depending on shaft length etc.Using 175 gr and heavier glue on heads with 75,100 or 125 gr steel adapters,will get you any weight you need and it will be out front.
Don't get rid of that arrow.You can use it to split wood for the Winter!
Like my mom used to tell me "that'ill learn ya".
Scott,
Sorry for the screwup. When I first weighed the arrow it had a 250 point. Not wanting to use the larger points for target, I switched to 175gr point and 60gr behind the insert. For some reason when I added everything up I had counted the 21gr insert in with the weight. Brain said 256gr. After shooting I remember finding out that the shaft shot weak. I then added another 20gr weight to cover for the insert, thus coming pretty close to the 250 point.
JimB,
I've found that what you stated to be about right. Adding weight behind the insert really screws with your balance point. I'm going to order some of the 100gr brass inserts. This will put the 101gr I now have with the alumium insert and 80 behind it futher forward.
Troy
Bad brain and fingers,,,,,
To Scott it should have said shot stiff when I only had 60 behind the point.
Troy
I'm sure that none of the rest of us have done that. :rolleyes: Last year I was tuning Easton gamegetter 500's and decided that I would go ahead and glue the Inserts and cut the shafts from the nock end. Would have been a good idea if gamegetters didn't have a carbon adapter at the nock end that breaks when you try to pull it out(if you can get it out). Of course I didn't try to take the adapters out until after I cut my shafts. :thumbsup:
Troy, try a victory v-force HV 300. The shafts are much lighter than the bemans. The slightly smaller diameter will also reduce the spine slightly. I might have an uncut shaft somewhere I could send you to try.
I'm shooting 59# at 29" with 29.75" total arrow length shooting these shafts with 450gr upfront total (100gr insert and 350gr point) out of my whip.
BTW total arrow weight 670gr
chopx2 - I would appreciate it if you would keep the Victory VForce HV's a secret.
After all the screwups I did the other day I desided to give it a try again today to see what might work. This time I started with a full length shaft. I installed the standard alumium insert and tipped it with the 250gr field point. Behind the insert I installed four 20gr GT weights.
The first few shots showed exactly what I expected it to show, weak very weak.
At this point I started by cutting 1/4" (want make the same mistake I made before). After afew shots that still showed weak I made a 1/8" cut and shot some more. Still showed weak, but only slightly. Well, more shooting and more 1/8" cuts.
Finally, a shaft that is shooting very faint weak. I'll hold at this point.
Final tally is 32.25" Beman Bowhunter 300 shaft, 250gr point, 21gr insert, and 80gr behind the insert. Add a 7" warp and three 4" fletching and my total weight is 692gr with 25% EFOC.
Not quite as much FOC as I was hoping for, but I'll just have to settle for it. The arrow shoots too good to mess with now.
The next step will be to order those 100gr brass inserts. This will replace the std. alumium insert and the 80 behind it. It should help push the balance point futher forward.
Live and learn......
Troy
Chopx2,
Just looked up those Victory shafts in one of my latest catalogs. Dang,,, those puppies only weigh 6.9gpi. The Beman shafts weigh 9.5gpi. The lighter shaft should recover faster.
Another thing I was wondering is how deep is your shelf cut. The shelf on my recurve is 3/16" past center. There are so many factors involved in getting UEFOC it's unreal. For years I worked for weight to get mominum. Now its EFOC to UEFOC.
Troy