after reading about everyone tunning there arrows to exactly there bow i decided to try.im right handed. well all my bareshaft shots hit the target angled left. with feathers the arrow hits and sticks perfectly strait. can somone help me out on what this means cause i dont know weather to go lower or higher in spine when i go to buy my next set of arrows.
thanks,
steven
The spine of the arrpw is not stiff enough
Can you cut a quarter inch at a time from the arrow This will start stiffening them
I like to stop when they are slightly nock left just slightly
I have found when I fletch and wrap the the extra weight in the rear makes them perfect
what info do i need to give exactly?
QuoteOriginally posted by JParanee:
The spine of the arrpw is not stiff enough
Can you cut a quarter inch at a time from the arrow This will start stiffening them
I like to stop when they are slightly nock left just slightly
I have found when I fletch and wrap the the extra weight in the rear makes them perfect
xs 2
kevin
The fact your nocks are left has little to do with whether the shafts are weak or stiff. Ignore nock left or right IMO! Its probably how you release the string or some other form issue. It will drive you nuts trying to correct for that bare shafting if you use the plane-ing method ala OL Adcock.
If bare shafts are grouping right of where you look they are weak. If they are grouping to the left of where you look they are stiff.
The fletched shafts give you a benchmark to compare to and keep you from correcting for how the bare shafts miss your aim point. These should group where you look.
Joshua
X's 3
Joshua said it.
Steven -
Check out what Paul Jalon of Elite arrows has to say about bareshaft tuning. He's been building arrows since 1952. Paul is a sponsor here and well respected arrowsmith.
http://elitearrows.com/proper-arrow/
Danny
Check out http://www.acsbows.com/bowtuning.html
for the couterpoint to Paul's opinion. I believe this comes from vast experiance and science as well.
In my limited experience (compared to some others), bare shaft planing has worked far better than paper tuning with trad gear. I use two fletched shafts and two bare shafts and determine nock height and spine stiffness based on where they group.
...and the debate goes on and on. Both will work I guess. It just seems that if an unfletched arrow will get cut down to a length that will fly good why not do it? Then when fletched it will be a beautiful thing.
Whether you use paper or bare shaft you had better have a consistantly good release.
I'm with RM81. Paper tuning can validate the bareshaft test.
It seems to me that bareshaft tuning is a better method since it reveals the outome of the arrow at point of impact, which is usually considerably further away from the target than when paper tuning. Just my $.02
:knothead:
:biglaugh:
This debate is second only to 2-blade v. 3-blade debate for entertainment value. :)
Here's my spew: The bottomline is arrow flight not shaft flight, but bare shafting can help you diagnose gross spine mismatches. It isn't a very good fine tuning tool, IME. Plus, you have to watch out for other variables. Center cut and brace height can play a big part in bare shaft tuning too.
My 5575's nocked way left in my 50# recurve and I bought a dozen 7595s (now for sale in the classifieds) which nocked perfectly bare but wouldn't fly worth a damn with feathers. I built out the strike plate and voilà, the bare 5575s nocked a smidgeon left and with 175 grain points fletched flew perfectly and my groups are getting better every day.
Regarding the information from A&H Archery, bear in mind:
1. This information comes from someone that builds bows not arrows.
2. This method recommends a distance of 15 or so yards and is called arrow planing not tuning and assumes the bow is properly tuned and/or set up.
3. The arrows that Ron La Clair sells are all made by Master Arrowsmith Paul Jalon. Ron trusts his arrowsmith, not his bowyer to produce arrows.
4. Paper tuning shows the flight stability of the arrow within feet of leaving the bow, not point of impact 15 yards away.
5. Arrow planing determines down range point of impact not flight stability.
I've always tuned with the fletching installed. That way you only change one thing at a time. Seems to me that if you bare shaft and finally get the arrow to fly center, then when you add fletching you are throwing an additional factor into the tuning equation that was not there before. That could be good or bad. If it changes your arrow flight for the bad, then you get to start tuning all over again. I guess that's not a bad thing if you have plenty of time and money to spend unnecessarily. And that's my two cents.
Danny
And bows shoot arrows - it is a very symbiotic relationship.
Actually you use the results to tune the bow for nockpoint and raising and lowering brace to adjust spine. Can also use the results to adjust impact by thickening or thinning the strike plate. Planing is just another tool - used correctly it can be very useful. But like any tool or method, it's use certainly is not mandatory and all are free to use it, some other, or nothing at all. If someone is happy with there setu, regardless of how they got there, I'll never suggest the method/tool they used is wrong or unnecessary.
After see slow motion video's of arrows in flight, I feel seeing perfect flight by the naked eye is nothing but an illusion that can allow one to think they have good flight when not they in reality don't. I want my setup to be the most forgiving possible and planing does that for me quickly and easily.
SteveB -
Good for you. :thumbsup:
I'm agreeing with all of Ric O Shay's comments. Basically, bare shafting requires a perfect release which a lot of people don't have.
I won't go as far to say a "perfect release"...but a good one. So does paper tuning.
I will go as far to say, when it comes to bare shaft tuning, a "good release"....in a lot of cases isn't good enough.
In other words, the term "good" is relative. One never sees or feels the slightest pluck of their bowstring because their feathers on a fletched arrow mask the slightest pluck of the string.
QuoteOriginally posted by Night Wing:
I'm agreeing with all of Ric O Shay's comments. Basically, bare shafting requires a perfect release which a lot of people don't have.
If you are going by arrow flight that is true.
But using the bs planing method takes that out of the equation and is the reason why most who understand the 2 methods use the planing one.
QuoteOriginally posted by SteveB:
QuoteOriginally posted by Night Wing:
I'm agreeing with all of Ric O Shay's comments. Basically, bare shafting requires a perfect release which a lot of people don't have.
If you are going by arrow flight that is true.
But using the bs planing method takes that out of the equation and is the reason why most who understand the 2 methods use the planing one. [/b]
Bare shaft tuning requires a very, very good release.
If one really thinks their release is very, very good, just do a simple test. Bare shaft an arrow with a 45# and/or higher up poundage bow and then bare shaft an arrow with a 35# bow. I would wager the 35# bow will give someone using the bare shaft method a difficult time because the bowstring doesn't rip from one's fingers with the slightest release of pressure like it does with the higher poundage bows.
When I was bare shaft tuning this spring I never got the bare shaft to land the same way 10 out of 10 times, so I have to attribute the odd one or two or sometimes three exceptions to bad release. But if you shoot a couple dozen and keep track, a definite pattern will emerge.
What of those tears in the paper then...don't less than perfect releases mean errors in the tears...?
Why not use a mechanical release just to get it right?
As long as you maintained the same anchor point and draw length that would be fine.
I find that 15 yds is absolute minimum for bareshafting; if you can't get 20-25 paper tuning may be the way to go.
Fletch up an arrow shoot it, if it looks good then try it with a broad head. If said arrow flys good then your good to go.
I find using all the same color feathers like all white or bright yellow works best.
As long as the arrow weight meets the recommended 8gr to 10gr or more for bow weight, your ok.