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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Traddict on July 04, 2011, 02:41:00 PM

Title: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: Traddict on July 04, 2011, 02:41:00 PM
I have a go to bow that I shoot pretty well.  Shot another bow a few days ago, and shot it well, but hit about 6" to the rt at about 18 yards.  Grouped very well with it, but everything to the rt.  Both arrow setups were flying very well.  Is there a way to tune the second bow to hit where I look?  I know you would eventually adjust, but I'm not interested in that.  I would like to be able to pick up either bow and still be on.  Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: jamesh76 on July 04, 2011, 03:05:00 PM
You need to bareshaft tune the 2nd bow. If you are RT handed and hitting right you are underspined.
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: Rob W. on July 04, 2011, 03:07:00 PM
You can change strike plate thickness but it will make the arrow spine react differently. It usally only takes me a few shots to adjust. If I'm going to switch between longbow and recurve during season I shoot the day before I hunt and a few when I get out of the truck. I also practice only with broadheads when season gets near.
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: Night Wing on July 04, 2011, 03:10:00 PM
I have two 66" Blacktail recurves, but the poundage is different on both of them. They both have the same brace height, shoot the same length arrow, the same point weight, the shelf of both bows are cut 3/16" past center with the side plate thickness being 1/16".

Are both of your bows the same model and length? Are you shooting the same arrow length and point weight? Is your side plate the same thickness? Is your brace height the same?

For a right handed bow where the arrows are consistently shooting to the right, it's a sign of a weak arrow.

Two solutions. One is to lower the point weight. But, if you want to shoot the same point weight, lower the brace height.
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: McDave on July 04, 2011, 03:13:00 PM
Assuming you are a RH shooter, it is possible that the new bow has the shelf cut to or past centershot, and the other bow is not cut in as far.  Many longbows are not cut to centership, while many recurves are cut to or past centershot.

You could build out the sideplate of the new bow until it impacts the same place as the old bow.  This may require you to use a weaker arrow shaft.

To further fine tune, a stiffer side plate, such as leather, will move the arrow impact to the left, while a softer sideplate, such as a rug rest, will move the arrow impact to the right.  But this fine tuning won't make a 6" difference at 18 yards.

If it were me, I would pick the bow I like the best and make the adjustments to the other bow, because the bow will probably perform best the way it was designed.
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: Gen273 on July 04, 2011, 04:29:00 PM
+2 on what McDave and Nightwing said.
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: joekeith on July 04, 2011, 04:34:00 PM
It could be brace height.......
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: cacciatore on July 04, 2011, 04:37:00 PM
+3
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: Winterhawk1960 on July 04, 2011, 05:51:00 PM
If it were me, I would cut me some shims out of double sided carpet tape. It is much easier to fix my bows that shoot right of where I'm looking. I have a lot harder time correcting the ones that impact left of where I'm looking.

Winterhawk1960
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: ishoot4thrills on July 04, 2011, 06:57:00 PM
Ditto with everyone above!
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: Friend on July 04, 2011, 07:24:00 PM
Great advice has been presented.

Further information may be required in order to narrow down the possibilities.

Are you shooting right or left handed?

You may consider providing the following info:

Previous bow make, shelf cut-out, specs, actual draw and arrow specs. Was this set-up bare shaft tuned?

New bow make, shelf cut-out, specs, actual draw and arrow specs. Was this set-up bare shaft tuned?

The guidance, which the gentlemen have already provided you, comes from years of considerable experience. Confidence in their responses is a very high level and only handicapped since the advice is provided from afar.

Best of luck!!!
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: YORNOC on July 04, 2011, 07:42:00 PM
There is not a bow in the world that can specifically shoot where you personally look. If you find one that does such a thing, set your hooks in it and never let it go. Truth makes "you" adapt to the bow,not the other way. No bow can "know" where you individually look, so you HAVE to adapt....like it or not. They are all different, as are we!
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: hvyhitter on July 04, 2011, 08:58:00 PM
Some bows will just point and shoot better for you than others. Its sometimes a matter of hand and grip fit and alignment. Bows that dont shoot well for me just dont get bought.
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: Red Beastmaster on July 04, 2011, 10:03:00 PM
I have several bows that I shoot in a more or less rotation. Sometimes I will shoot one right on with the first shot, but it usually takes several arrows before my mind makes the adjustment.

Getting all my recurves and longbows to hit where I look could get real crazy real quick. I think I would be mentally making the adjusment before I could physically change the rest.

I look at nothing other than the spot I want to hit. I guess if you used an aiming system of some type it would be possible to make adjustments to the bow.
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: Terry Green on July 05, 2011, 01:16:00 AM
All the bows I own and I have owned shoot where I look but a couple.....due to being cut way past center.  I liked the bows and the way they shot.....so I just built out the side plate so they too shoot where I look.  And I am a right hander.

The ones I am referring to shot the same as yours. ....to the right.  Never shot a bow that shot to the left but a few selfbows.

I think it is very typical for most bows to shoot where you look if you are an avid shooter that has matched equipment .
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: Swamp Yankee on July 05, 2011, 07:20:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by YORNOC:
There is not a bow in the world that can specifically shoot where you personally look. If you find one that does such a thing, set your hooks in it and never let it go. Truth makes "you" adapt to the bow,not the other way. No bow can "know" where you individually look, so you HAVE to adapt....like it or not. They are all different, as are we!
Bingo.  These threads make me crazy.  An untuned arrow may shoot left or right of a tuned arrow; but ultimately it's the grey matter between your ears that determines where that arrow goes.  If a tuned arrow hits right; it's only because you need to aim left.  If shot from a machine, different bows will likely hit different points.  Its all about your brain, not the simple stick and string.
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: Bowmania on July 05, 2011, 10:22:00 AM
Swamp Yankee,  I think your saying that Traddick brain is wrong and his bow is right.  I disagree.  I'm a gapper and had a long bow that I shot for 3 years - at 20 yards it shot 6 inches to the right - great arrow flight BH's shot through paper.  My brain did not adjust.  I finally took a rasp to the bow window and bango it move over the 6 inches with the same great bullet (BH) hole through paper.

My brain is never wrong WHEN IT COMES TO BOWS AND ARROWS, I adjust them to meet my needs.  A "simple stick and string" is easier to adjust than "the grey matter between your ears".

As stated, moving an arrow impact to the left for a RIGHT handed shooter is much easier.  I use a stick match ain if it's too much I cut it in half.

Bowmania
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: MT Longbow on July 05, 2011, 10:46:00 AM
I have figured out that some bows need a bit more or less "Cant" to put the arrow where I want it to go at 30 yards...a little more or less "cant" really made a difference to my shooting....but then again that is on a long bow that is not cut to center so Im not really rotating around the axis of the bow when I change "cant " in the longbow world.

Anyway try it: right for right and left for left...its the quickest adjustment you can make while shooting.
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: Terry Green on July 05, 2011, 12:28:00 PM
Actually I can't imagine having to adjust to every bow I own every time I picked up a different one.  I got a dozen and I can pick them up one shot at a time and they all shoot where I look.  I have demonstrated this many times before for folks showing what matched equipment will do.....along with proper alignment.

I can choose any of my recurves or longbows and go hunt without any 'having to adjust' shots.

I would not own a bow that didn't shoot where I was looking. ....whether I adjusted / tuned it or not.......again, all of.my bows shoot where I look and most  did so 'out of the box'.

If I had a.dozen bows that all shot different places other than where I was looking???....Now THAT would drive me crazy!!!     :campfire:
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: Traddict on July 05, 2011, 01:25:00 PM
Thanks for all the replies. My goto bow is 1/8 inch before center including side plate. The second bow is cut too or just past center. I don't own the second bow. I was considering buying it, but have no desire to have several bows that I have to adjust to each time.  Sounds like I need to try building the side plate out a little on the second bow. Terry, what you describe is exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: on July 05, 2011, 01:49:00 PM
They all shoot where you're looking-- you may not be looking where you think you are.
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: PaddyMac on July 05, 2011, 01:59:00 PM
I don't have more than one bow but if I did, and I intend to, I'd go to a lot of trouble to make sure they shoot where I was looking.

You can test a side plate build out quickly and easily. I just did one by masking taping a hunk of velcro rug onto existing calf hair plate on the riser, leaving it rug an inch above the shelf. It changed everything dramatically and pulled me back from overspined arrows into tune. It's a 15 minute experiment. I've monkeyed with the brace height but my bow shoots best at the recommended 8-1/4" but it starts acting up if it get a 1/4" off, so I measure it all the time.
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: on July 05, 2011, 07:23:00 PM
I have found that my Alaskan graphites shoot to the right of where I am looking compared to my other arrows with my favorite longbow, but after a few shots I realize that I am not looking at where the bow is shooting and then they all shoot the same.
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: 59Alaskan on July 05, 2011, 08:51:00 PM
Assuming you are right handed, once you know you have tuned arrows then I would build out the strike plate, and/or use harder strike plate material to get

I believe you will be much more accurate if you tune the bow to you.  

As you can see here though, there are many ways to skin a cat.
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: Swamp Yankee on July 06, 2011, 08:05:00 AM
Wow, I'm sure glad all you who believe it's the (well tuned) bows fault for not shooting where you look don't drive rental cars in my neighborhood!  :scared:
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: Overspined on July 06, 2011, 08:28:00 AM
Canting the bow differently shouldn't really impact the arrows grouping unless your eye isn't consistently aligned with the arrow nock. I shoot both handed and have to close my dominant eye for the off hand, or get it right over the nock to move the arrow placement appropriately.  This is probably not a good way to correct arrow impact IMO, form should be consistent if possible.
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: Friend on July 06, 2011, 02:34:00 PM
I don't plan to own or buy a bow that does not hit where I look. I have adjusted the side plate but that is far as it goes. If you have a bow design that definately works great for you and another that doesn't, then strongly consider looking at another bow. The market has plenty of great options and being comfortable is what makes a perfect shot execution more likely and thus fully capture the tradtional experience and euphoria.

Possibly one of the most enjoyable bows I have ever shot would group extremeley tight but ~4 inches left.  Four inches left was the best I could muster after a couple of hundred shots and and multiple attempts to weaken the spine. Possibly, I didn't experiment enough so I plan to give the bow another go in the future.

Best of luck!!
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: PaddyMac on July 06, 2011, 02:39:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Swamp Yankee:
Wow, I'm sure glad all you who believe it's the (well tuned) bows fault for not shooting where you look don't drive rental cars in my neighborhood!   :scared:  
:biglaugh:

My bow is perfectly accurate -- every time -- until I let go of that string.
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: Terry Green on July 06, 2011, 07:28:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Swamp Yankee:
Wow, I'm sure glad all you who believe it's the (well tuned) bows fault for not shooting where you look don't drive rental cars in my neighborhood!    :scared:  
And I'm glad you're not hunting with 'rental bows' in my woodlots.    :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: Frank on July 06, 2011, 07:48:00 PM
The bow I'm shooting.

First two shots ever shot from the bow at 27 yards.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/FrankV/New%20Bow/100_2358.jpg)

Yeh, I own the bow now.

As far as bows that don't shoot where I look, tell that to the sapling.  

I can pick up anyone of my bows and at 20 yards put it in the pie plate.


Here is a pic of my pie plate target.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/FrankV/pieplate.jpg)
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: 59Alaskan on July 06, 2011, 07:51:00 PM
Some rental cars require an alignment.

Can I borrow that pie plate??
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: Don Batten on July 06, 2011, 07:55:00 PM
In the last 7 years, Ive never ever shot a trad bow that I couldn't , shoot where I was looking. Thats after about 3 shots out of it. Spine needs to be close, but I can adjust my look to hit good at 20 yds and in. Just ask Marty or Joebuck.  But what others have said. Side Plate, nock point, brace ht. I'll go out of my way to get the bow to shoot the arrow that I want. Not to trim the arrow to shoot in the bow I want. I guess I'm just lazy. I'd rather spend my time shooting and hunting than tuning. DB
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: frank bullitt on July 06, 2011, 10:33:00 PM
Yeah Batman! Give me an arrow within reason, will figure it out!  :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: Bows not shooting where you look?
Post by: michigan bill on July 10, 2011, 05:23:00 PM
I don't care who you are, that pie plate is funny!!
to one of our shooters, the 10 ring on a deer target at 25 yards looks about like your pie plate.  to me it looks like a pea.
bill