My background is predominately fishing and in 2005 I brought an artisan reel to market for fishing steelhead called the Mykiss(latin for rainbow trout)back in Michigan. My experience with individuals that would spend $400.00 on a fishing reel was far and beyond enough to deter me from doing a second run. A very esoteric and discerning crowd for sure (Hope this introduction doesn't break the rules).
Six years later where do I land? In the simple world of stick and string. So I thought! How could something as simple as this be so involved that an average lifespan does not seem enough?
Where I'm going with this? I'm not sure. Just trying to understand the playing field that's before me/us. I want to understand more about the degrees of seperation in traditional archery. Or the categories, if you will. My thoughts are varied.
My first inclination is to think Ishi to Qarbon Nano...A past to present historical approach where the schools of thought (or genres) are the milestones in technology between the begining and the present???
A neophytes ramblings...
-Primitive (selfbows, sinew backed)
-String follow D shape bows (pre-glass)
-Recurves (pre-glass)
-Phenalics/laminates
-Reflex Deflex LB
-3 piece bows
-Glass foam
-Carbon foam
On and on and on...
Can anyone add perspective?
~CB
Pretty simple really. Find a level you like and call it traditional. If we all want to be true trad we would chase the animals off cliffs using fire to push them. It is only as complicated as you choose to make it.
So as long as the mechanical advantage doesn't exceed a lever it's all the same. I get it. Simplified. Thanks!
QuoteOriginally posted by Ragnarok Forge:
Pretty simple really. Find a level you like and call it traditional. If we all want to be true trad we would chase the animals off cliffs using fire to push them. It is only as complicated as you choose to make it.
Yep.
Funny to break things down with lines in the sand as we type on a computer...
Always tell folks if they're having fun they're doing it right. Easy to get lost in interpretations. One's trash another's treasure. Not sure I would like the category I'd fit.
To perhaps support an anology... I fish Scott fly rods... the soft ones, yea they are carbon but they are not "parking lot" rods.... Why, well because they act somewhat like the glass rods of the 60's-70's. Yep, they are slower and yep they load a bunch different but I like em. They like me... I don't feel like I need to "aerialize" (my word) all my fly line and a bunch of my backing.
I have an orig. Payne and its sweet... several of the Scotts feel like the Payne.
I started with Bear recurves and now shoot Widows and the old Bears. Its a mind set... you go where the mind takes you and that is traditional to you....
I am a happy camper....
If it's a bent instrument with a single string, and no sights it's traditional. Anything beyond that with multiple strings, wheels, cables, screws, sights, ect. is not. That's how I break it down.
Wood, glass, carbon, ect. are just materials to make said bent instrument and I don't push them out of the traditional class because it's still a simple stick/rod and string with no sights just instinct.
I just read a post on another website where a guy shot a nice Corsican Sheep with decent head gear with a glass recurve and apologized for not using his primitive bow. Why? It's still a trad bow with a single string, no sights, no cables and all instinct. So what if it's not a single piece of wood, a wood/cane shaft with a rock point........it's still trad in my book so don't apologize to anyone.
Find what you like and learn it well.
Just my 2 cents.
For my experience Complicated is not always better. I recently picked up a "Modern" longbow, built with all of the possibilities of something grand. 2nd day shooting it, CRACK, no more bow. Meanwhile I have several older glass laminate bows that have proven to be lifers. They'll outlive me for sure.
Even in this sport we can at times expect more from our equipment pushing the level higher. Sometimes it works out, other times it's too much and we need to back off.
Have your arrows matched to your bow, then enjoy the ride! We all tend to compound things too much... My Muzzy Stump Shoot shirt reads, "Shut Up And Shoot!" That says a lot to me....... ;)
... mike ...
We have better things to do than get caught up in all that stuff. I like to shoot what I like to shoot, and it matters not to me what someone else does.
I like your shirt Mike.
Light up a cigar and relax...LOL! We get far too hung up on "labels" in North America.
As long as you enjoy watching the magical flight path of the arrow, as long as it is shot from a longbow or recurve, it matters not if there is wood, fiberglass, bamboo or carbon in the limbs. As long as there are NO FRIGGING WHEELS (unless of course you are injured or lame).
Semo_Hunter nailed it: "Find what you like and learn it well".
Life is complicated, Trad Archery is simple. Shoot what you like, and if it ain't got wheels we can discuss it here around the campfire.
I see traditional as a challange. Though there are many benefits form shooting a glass bow or one made with carbon there isnt much help form the materials in the aspects of shooting ability. There still is the biggest factor of all, the person shooting. On all of the types of trad bows there are no helpers to make the shot eaiser (aiming, release, let off ect). Yes there is trad gear but also a trad state of mind. Traditional shooters no matter where they fall on the purist scale seek the feel of the shot. They seek the challenge of releasing of an arrow. The most important thing in my opinion is the challenge and pride in tracking and getting close to game to make those shots. Trad should not be determined how traditional you are but by your state of mind. And I love the look on old friends faces that still have their training wheels in their hands that I have switched over. The look of confusion and of a world that is weird to them is priceless.
In hindsight, it entered my mind that this subject may potentially be a contentious one. Honestly I wasn't sure. To simplify even further, let me ask this. When attending the many trad events around the country do the categories of competition for trad fall into one? I love shooting and always will and I hope my son will as well. However, coming into this "lifestyle" it seems some level of identity is established. Another analogy would be KUIU or buckskins? Just trying to learn and not label anyone or be offensive. I adore it all...
~CB
I guess I go from one end of the spectrum to the other....tonights a perfect example. I just walked in from shooting judo's in my yard and the bows go as follows:
50# Widow
45# Widow
59# Widow
(now to break the trend)
40# 1973 Super Kodiak
(Lienekuegal with a lemon break...that 59# was rough!)
48# 1965 Kodiak
Aside from not worrrying about what's traditional or not, MY DARN FINGERS HURT!
You define yourself.
as such, everybody is different.
There isn't a life style change for me.
I just wanted to try something more difficult than a compound.
You know the old...through hard work and perseverance comes the greatest rewards...etc
Be yourself, no reason to try to fit in or make others fit to an imaginary mold.
Here we are HUNTERS who choose to hunt with long bows and recurves...that's why we're here. That is our collective identity .
There are shoots that specify what types of bows can be used...mostly for using "older" styles of bow...
Just have fun and enjoy!
I started out with a 45 lb bear super mag,then moved on to compounds One day I said to myself I want to simplify the process and ordered my first custom bow and have been hooked ever since,never looked back,it's been a fun ride.
Right on... Okay I get it. To some extent I feel you don't have to identify yourself at all, but just go with what you feel. somedays your buckskins and some days it's full on. Just relax and enjoy the ride. My apologies everyone. It is a new begining and I'm trying to understand the culture. Still wondering, are there different categories in competition shooting that divide primitive from modern?
~CB
yes
Many of us are attracted to the equipment we use for different reasons. Probably the only identical thread among us is, from time to time we want a full length arrow moving through the chest cavity of critters we cherish.
I've advised my son regarding hunting (and a couple of long-time friends). As long as he follows the law, he should pursue his personal hunting goals, not mine, the neighbors, a celebrity's, etc.
Do what gives him what he wants out of bowhunting. Realize these goals will likely change over time, opportunity, and experience. When he does something, take a certain deer for example, that doesn't fulfill him like he thought it would, don't regret it or feel bad, use the experience to adjust his behavior next time.
I can't add much to Chad's words other than sometimes I think people want to make traditional archery "primitive" archery. It is all in YOUR definition.
I always think it would be the coolest thing to shoot a deer ith a self bow, and every time I shoot one, I change my mind. I don't want to make shooting my bow physically punishing. A little bit of refinement goes a long way!
chromebuck, no need to apologize. Your journey is starting and people here are happy to help you along that path.
chromebuck, I have enjoyed this thread as I often struggle with a good way to explain the levels of trad myself. I've tried to blog about it several times and always fail to get the point across without asking myself "what am I trying to prove anyway?"
As humans, we label everything to help us understand and classify things. Archery isn't any different. I see each level as a degree of challenge getting closer and closer to whatever step is indeed your final step. Some move towards the modern, some move towards the primitive.
Gear-wise, I get the most enjoyment out of archery when I shoot equipment I've made and tuned myself. The more I learn, the more I build, the better I feel. I feel I'm in a good place right now with longbows and wood arrows but my ultimate goal is to take game with a self bow of my creation.
The downside of the "levels of trad" is the passion often applied to them. The lines in the sand are comical but fervently defended. A concept I find somewhat ironic considering that traditional archery is such a unique thing. Why make others do it YOUR way when you wanted to do it your way in the first place?
Relativity is ever present in life.
Compared to what the caveman had.. the Native Americans might as well have been using brand new compound bows.
If you like it, shoot it, learn it, become proficient with it. Apologize to no one, for you are yourself and the only one to answer to is yourself.
I like primitive. I shoot a snakey Osage Selfbow, Cane arrows and "sometimes" stone points.
If I were truly primitive, I wouldn't be typing on a 'puter! maybe carving in stone, instead.
Traditional is in your Heart and Mind.
Don't worry about what others think.
Everyone has had this argument with theirselves, wether they want to admit it or not.
Welcome to the real world of archery. Learning is a blast. Everyone at Tradgang will chime in and help a newbie thru the rough spots. Ask what you need and some one will respond.
JAG/Johnny
Many 3-D shoots do categorize dependent on the the type of trad equipment you use but for example in Wisconsin we all shoot together even though your scores might be seperated by equipment. When I shoot I usually don't score but that might have something to do with my 3-D shooting skills. I've always seen it as an individual persuit, both the type of practice and the hunt. The one to please is myself and my competiton is myself. When we gather we enjoy talking about the differences amongst us in what we choose to shoot now and what we might shoot in the future. But we all seem to share the passion and new friendships come easy when we meet. It's all good.
Now sights make you non traditional LMAO
Sights on bows have been around a long time... before compounds.
I've always felt the difference between modern and traditional was the use or nonuse of mechanical advantage. I've always liked recurves and longbows, but ultimately I went with a compound out of a desire for accuracy and range, and then gradually I discovered that I never really needed the increase in range and that the sites were just a crutch to avoid shooting my bow every day.
Now that I only shoot traditional, and being relatively new to it, I'm finding it -- just my subjective opinion -- so much richer of an experience than modern archery. The people, the quality of the equipment, the beauty of the equipment, the witchery of it as well as the science of it. The unavoidable imperfection of it. I just really like every part of it and if there are people who get that out of modern archery, good for them.
Happy 4th of July everyone. I'm heading out to fish with the fam, and today I think I'll wear my Lil Skinner neck knife. It is who I am...At least today! Thanks for the insightful replies. My ultimate dream is to arrow a dall sheep in the Wrangles while I'm here and still of good health.
~CB
While the national archery organizations have rules to describe a whole bunch of categories, what I'm seeing at "traditional" shoots are three simple classes: Sights, barebow wood arrows and barebow all other arrows. Above all that, it seems very few pay much attention to even those categories and just shoot for the fun of it; score keeping optional. All the technical categories might be fine for national shoots, but at the local level I really enjoy the "Just shut up and shoot" attitude I'm finding.
Swamp Yankee
You hit it in my eyes JUST SHUT UP AND SHOOT.
Wood bow with wood arrows is all I know.