Looking for some good wool cloths, what sponsors on here sell wool? I know of Asbell and Ron LaClair's shop but would like to hear some others.
Thanks,
Ari
I know its ungodly expensive but i really love king of the mountain.
There is Day One Camoflage. Expensive but not as much as some others.
http://www.dayonecamouflage.com/
Two Tracks makes an awesome hunting vest. They are also a sponsor.
Gray Wolf Woolens is a sponsor.
I agree with king of the mountain. Best wool i ever used. Will last a long time. Very expensive but i will spend the extra cash for good wool. You won't be sorry.
QuoteOriginally posted by John Fragale:
I agree with king of the mountain. Best wool i ever used. Will last a long time. Very expensive but i will spend the extra cash for good wool. You won't be sorry.
Said perfectly.......
Two tracks has some beautiful thick vests, and are a sponsor.
Dan
The real good stuff - big price, but divided by years of wear - pretty cheap. I have DAY One fleece that's 20 years old and still good. That will be this Fall's wool purchase. Not for everyday wear tho, just hunting. TWO TRACKS vests look very impressive.
Ditto KOM is the best out there. Followed closely by Sleeping Indian.
Old KOM is nice, new KOM leave something to be desired imo. I have both. They are sewn in Mexico now & the pants I bought fell apart the first week I had them.One week of hunting for 350 dollar pants aint good. They simply are not made as well as they used to be. I own a bunch of gww & have put them thru the paces & it is awesome stuff.I believe it is the best right now, hand sewed by one of our own tradgang ladies & a sponsor.
what Bigriver said X10 !!! I would not take anything for my Gray Wolf Woolens vest. Don't forget the base layer of Ullfrotte' wool longjohns and you are set for anything.
I had KOM a decade ago. Didn't take me long to decide I was disappointed in its performance. I sold it and bought Sleeping Indian. The wool fabric was heavier weight and the weave was tighter. The attention to detail was much better in my mind. I was very happy with it. I later sold 100% of it ($1,500 retail) when I realized how much versatility synthetics offered.
Today I own almost no wool, mainly because I prefer frequently-washed hunting clothes. Wool is not easy to wash and dry quickly.
Own KOM, Sleeping Indian, Columbia and also a Gray Wolf Woolens Kromer type hat but do prefer the SI over the KOM in colder weather.
Only synthetics Kevin...tsk, tsk, tsk... :)
LL bean. good price and quality made.
I have an old Swan Dry jacket I got from Screaming Eagle in the 90's. It is very warm if you can find an old one it would be a good product. I have always worn Filson wool and it has never let me down. I bought the timber camo which is not the best pattern in the world but it works. Filson is tough heavy wool it comes out when weather gets rough. I live in my wool if I guide rifle in Montana the season goes till after Thanksgiving and we usally saddle horses in the single didgets or colder. I have had synthetics but they just dont seem to hold up and as far as washing goes thats the best thing about wool you dont wash it. Even if I sweat with wool i never get cold when I sit down for a stand hunt. It is heavy and is a little harder to lug around in the high country but it can save your life.
For the record, I absolutely agree that wool is a great fabric. Once I really started traveling to far places and lugging gear, the wool had to go. You just don't see many guys loading up their backpacks with wool garments when weight really matters. In an unrestricted setting, wool is a great choice.
The last hunt I wore wools (SI) on was a Yukon horseback hunt in October. By the time it was over my wools were just plain stinking. Odors of smoke, pack horse, human body, and food were very strong. I experienced the same thing (but no horses) on a British Columbia wilderness hunt. Even a good dry cleaning couldn't remove the smoke odors. They had to hang for a month. I've had some of the best wool garments ever made. A 30 mile windy boat ride in the NWT demonstrated (several times) that my wools would not stop wind penetration 100%. I had to shell-up over the wool. So did my partner.
When I began regularly going to Alaska (a great place to test your garments) I did some soul searching. I followed the advice of those who've been there and done that. They advised me to forget the heavy wools and go with synthetic layers. So I did. I've never regretted it once. Sweating inside my garments is mostly a thing of the past. I can stream-wash them and have them dry in a couple hours. Extra or excess layers stow and carry easily during the hunting day. Water and mud...even blood comes right off my softshell outer layer. I don't feel grubby/smelly by the end of a 12 day wilderness hunt.
Both types of garments have their place, and no one type is superior in all ways to another. This thread is about wools, and I'm glad we have the choice to get good garments in wool. I just don't have as much use for it these days. I would look to people like Sleeping Indian, Gray Wolf and maybe a couple plaid makers if I was in the market to buy wools again.
Don't forget to look at Silent predator wool, you can get it from Bernie Parson.com I just bought a vest from him, same wool as KOM,but sewn in Canada not Mexico
Okay Kevin, now you got me wondering what synthetics you prefer?
I really love Grey Wolf and Sleeping Indian. I know there are alot of great new synthetics out there now...but I love my wool. But what I really love is the long underwear that is made by Smartwool. This stuff is great!
Me to Kevin I always look for a good system its just every thing I have used that is man made its usally shreded when I am through with it. I have cabelas breathable rain gear which maybe breathable when sitting still but not hiking. It was in shreads after a 6 day elk hunt in NW Montana. I have not looked at Sitka or the new Kuiu just because I did not think they could hold up maybe I should look at them more closely. I have cotton predetor camo from the 90's that has held up well for early bowhunting but the new stuff rips constantly its not even heavy denimum. Sounds like you have done some serious back country hunting I would like to know what you use and how it holds up. Wool is heavy there is no doubt but it has been the best I could find for cold weather and durability. I would like to hear from you.
Scott
For me, when stand hunting it is wool, if I am moving or in the mountains it's a combination of wool and synthetics: the farther in I go the less wool I take. I have bought, used, and still have many types of high and low end wool, my preference is Gray Wolf and Swandrri (sp).
All you have to do to remove any odor is put your clothes in a large plastic bag, and then hook up an ozon generator to it, leave it on for one hour and then shut it off and leave the bag closed for another half hour and it's done, NO ODORS at all.
Gary & Scott,
On backcountry hunts I normally pack 3 sets of syn long underwear in different weights. Over that goes Sitka 90%, or Cabela's Micro Tex. I always have a lightweight woven midlayer insulative piece with me, as well as a sweater-jacket filled with either down, Primaloft, or other light and lofty insulation. I often pack a pair of insulated micro-fleece pants for cold mornings. My wind and rain shell is currently a 3 year old set of Sitka Nimbus. This is a true ultralight rain shell, with no middle layers or hanging liner. It dries quickly and stuffs to softball size. I'll likely have other pieces along for the hunt, but that's the main sum of it. Notice I never carry a coat, parka or heavy jacket. I must add that a search of my duffel bag might reveal some merino wool long underwear, or maybe Ulfrotte. I still always wear syn uw next to my skin.
This year I do have a set of KUIU to try. I think it will be very much like the Sitka, but different in some ways. I have grown to love the tight and water repellent outer finish of softshell garments. They stretch...they repel water and mud...they stay cleaner...and they are very comfortable.
Scott, as far as durability goes...I've never had much issues there. I believe wool would win the day however. Maybe I'm a fussy hunter (I don't really think so) or maybe my age has made me patient. I don't charge through brush or give my gear extremely rough treatment. I tend to treat good gear with some care, so it survives for future use. I know my Nimbus might shred if I crawled across a shale slide in it. I'd sacrifice it to get a shot at a ram, though! I know guys talk about the advantages of wool, and I understand them. Synthetics have just as many, if not more, advantages for me vs wool. In my mind the "wet clothing" issue is way more theoretical than actual. Like goose down...guys say it gets wet and is worthless. Maybe, but in 30 years of using goose down I have yet to get it wet. I have gotten synthetics very wet, and they did not chill me one bit. The wicking nature of today's syns is amazing, as is their fast-drying characteristics.
I like the rugged nature of tough wool. I like the way it looks. I like how I feel sneaking through alders with Sleeping Indian wools on...top to bottom. I've got plenty of pics to prove that wool has helped me kill game. When I "went" synthetic, I made a concious decision to weigh out all the important qualities (and negatives perhaps) of wool vs synthetics. I did it with an open mind and I avoided letting traditional thinking affect my mind. I'm all for tradition of course, but I'm a hunter first and foremost. I go with what works best for me on any hunt.
You kinda went past the Asbell wool in your original post, but don't ignore it.....awesome value and quality. I have more Asbell wool than anything else. I do also love Filson....but the older I gt the pricier it seems.
"Warm," may not be comfortable for "you," but your body works better when it is warmed up. Your joint's conective tissue, muscles, even digestion, everything works optimally when warm. Synthetics are not insulation, they just inhibit breathing, and, dry fast. Add the two of these together and you will get some thermal action.
Just can't imagine getting cold in the wool stuff. I have yet to find a day so cold that I needed to up the ante and put on expedition weight long underware. I've worn it on an 85deg turkey opener day, cotton long-johns of course, and was fine. Baking Soda and a big trash bag. Open baking soda, place the open box in bag, put wool in bag over night, you will be happy by morning. I've belly crawled through cow pasture with my SI wool, they do not stink.
They both work, just don't be fooled into thinking that it is better, especially at insulating.... how many layers did you wear on that cold day with poly on??? wool don't need all those layers. Proper long-johns for temp/activity, wool shirt and pants, wind/rain block shell for just in-case, and go. Last thing, don't forget the extra water when wearing poly, your body will go through a ton.
"Synthetics are not insulation, they just inhibit breathing"
Is this an opinion, or has science decided that anything man-made (synthetic) can't be an insulator? If you can back that up with facts, I'll eat my words and buy you a Morrison. ;-)
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"how many layers did you wear on that cold day with poly on??? wool don't need all those layers."
Just enough to stay comfortably warm without sweating up my clothing.
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"don't forget the extra water when wearing poly, your body will go through a ton."
Simple physiology proves that the higher your core temp, and the more you perspire, the more water your body uses to accomplish cooling. I used to sweat my guts out marching up hills with heavy wools on. I'd drink water like a camel. Syns allow me more versatility to regulate my temperature. I sweat less. I am cooler under exertion. I require much less replacement fluids during a warm day.
Having done a decade of hard hunting in fine wools, and then several years of central Alaska moose, bear and caribou hunting in synthetics, my body understands how it is most comfortable, hydrated, and rested. Synthetics are my choice, but not everyone's. I understand that and have no problem with it. Use what you like, and what makes you happy. No sense in arguing that one is superior to the other. Different, yes.
Wood....or carbon?
I wish I could win that Morison but dont they use fiberglass for insulating houses and what about thermolite. I think the list will go on and on for synthetics used for insulating. Its just a matter of oppinion.
Thanks for all the advice, but I'm really only looking for wool products.
Some of these camo dealer charge a lot for there wool, does anyone know of some dealers that sell more plaid type wools at a cheaper price like Fred G or Ron?
Being a southern guy, I don't have the experience with EXTREME COLD days, but I have had more than my share of WET ones which can make 20 degrees just as deadly as -20. I totally agree with the thought that getting wet (from the outside) is a thing of the past with the rain gear we have now. I too vote for the synthetics and proper layering. With it I can be as warm or as cool as I want to be and it will dry QUICK.
Just my two cents.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ari:
Thanks for all the advice, but I'm really only looking for wool products.
Some of these camo dealer charge a lot for there wool, does anyone know of some dealers that sell more plaid type wools at a cheaper price like Fred G or Ron?
I think if you want better prices than Fred and Ron you might look at some slightly used military outlets
Absolutley. Here's a simple test, especially now that it is summer. Take a synthetic garment, sitka, gore tex, etc.. put an arm in a sleeve and go out in the noon day sun. Note the amount of the sun's heat that goes right through that "insulation." Now put a good woven SI, KOM, wool garment on the other arm and note how little of the suns radiation, warmth, gets through. That is "insulation," I won't waste your time and tell you to try the same test with the 2 fabrics on a 20deg day by jumping in water then seeing what will insulate you better when soaked.
This is why. The synthetic fiber itself does not breathe, only when it is woven in to a fabric can it allow breathability. If you made a jacket out of a sheet/film of the synthetic fabric you would be miserable and soaked with sweat when wearing it. The man made synthetic fibers are solid and hydrophobic, they will absorb less than .5% of there weight in water. The "insulation" they provide is not from the "insulating" value of the fabric. Again here's how. The "insulation" effect is provided by the weave of the product, it is woven in a way to allow a certain amount of vapor and heat to escape through the garment. Colder temps requires more layers to trap more heat, and warmer require less. When they are wet, the colder temp's of the water displaces your body heat that "was" trapped inside the layers.
Your choice of long underware will make a huge difference whan wearing wool. If you are going to be stalking in temps above 40-45deg with calm winds wear cotton longjohns!, t-shirt thickness for both top and bottoms. Freezing temps, but still stalking, light to mid weight poly, or ulfrotte wool. Sitting all day in the cold, heavy to expedition weight poly, or ulfrotte wool.
All in all 2 layers, longjohns, and wool outer wear. By that I mean shirt, pants, hat. Now if it is more extreme cold or very windy, step it up to a jacket or vest with a windblock liner. That said my vest is almost never needed.
When your body's core temp rises too much the body tries to achieve ballance by sweating. You are over heated, so your body produces sweat. So that it can be on your skin to allow evap cooling to take place. Problem with the poly stuff is that it dries too fast and does not give the body enough time to cool down the core because the fabric has left you dry. For those who think this is inaccurate look at it this way, If your body had to continually produce sweat just to keep you "wet" because the fabric is "wicking" it away, how much water do you think your body will go through to make this happen?? Now compare this to a simple cotton shirt. It sucks up water like a spounge and sticks on to your body, right, now your body does not have to continue to produce sweat to cool down your core, because, you are in effect already wet, by the cotton shirt! Obviously don't wear the cotton in the winter, but with a little adjustment you can wear you wool in the spring with no probs of dehydration.
King of the Mountain wool. Like the old saying goes... you get what you pay for. The wool I've used bar none.
Interesting info there swampthing, the lightbulb come on bright when you wrote about wool verses synthetic in full sun, I agrre the wool would be cooler therefore better insulated.
Some don't care for these debates / posts but I enjoy reading peoples opinions and then forming my own. Im not ready to trade my wool in yet. Even though I think hunting in Alaska would be a good test for which is better due to the wet & cold environment.
Dan
Thanx for your input Kevin.
I have day one and gw. Both are excellent. I love my wool for treestand hunting and have found nothing better
Ok not as experienced as some but here's what I found.... I'vei hunt n Ga mtn I've always worn syns until last year and I went to wool and won't go back. I ordered a vest and long sleeve from asbell. All I wore was ua cold gear under and was comfy with just the vest til Nov. Looping hikes up the mountain I just wore my ua compression and toted my wo ol long shirt. I got some used military pants used pilypropelene underwear and was more than comfy in every situation from 75 deg to 8deg wind blowing to full out wet snow n rain. O yea I also used mukuluks those keep feet warm. O yea i usually only stand hunt but also hiked 2 hrs up mtns in my wool. Take your time sweat can be avoided with a good wicking layer just my .02
For the price columbia makes a decent blend. I bought dayone wool vest and pullover and it is very good. There was a lady that made me a wool jacket and bibs years ago and it is still good and I hunt hard in it for 8 years. I am thinking of Graywolf woolens for my next, set. For the money i think they are better than KOM and sleeping Indian. I struggled with spending the money for while, till my wife of all people said, that the clothes I wear hunting is more important than the bow and tackle. Not worth getting sick (dieing) and it is and investment in a good quality hunting experiance. I can say that since spending money on quality products, saves money in the long run.
toddster, agree totally on the Columbia. I love my Columbia pants on one condition...... no wind above 5 MPH and temp below 30. If it is windy it will go right thru the Columbia.
I am saving for a set of Gray Wolf Woolens pants or bibs now. NO wind will get thru the GWW. Hunted all year last year in my GWW vest and was toasty even at 10 degrees. I wore 400gr Ullfrotte' long johns and a Cabelas sweater under the vest.
It has to fit YOU..if it dosen't fit your frame it dosen't matter whose name is on it. Go to shows and try it all on.
You also have to decide on what kind of wool..it isn't all the same, pro's and cons to every style. I sweat easily..I prefer a looser weave to let moisture escape. Some prefer crushed wool or just a tighter weave. There is enough to choose from that you can find what you want.
Do not eschew older military wool. I have a Royal Marine cammo smock-down to my thighs. I have an old army dress wool pants. Lighter weight but very warm with the right long johns. Inexpensive but effective.
the best wool pants I have ever seen are from Sweden, they are more wind proof than anything I have found. I paid $10 for two new pair. when we are on Canadian wilderness canoe trips, I start out the day with white wool longjohns under a Filsen wool shirt, I am more comfortable in hot sunlight than those that strip down when the temps go up. If I wear the blue poly types I get hot when the sun comes out. It is important for me that the wool is pure merino wool, no blend, the looser weave Pendleton shirts are really comfortable in warmer conditions with a light merino wool Tshirt.
By the time it was over my wools were just plain stinking.
I'm surprised that your opening arguement had to do with odor. In my experience there is nothing smellier than synthetics. I have worn wool pants for years without washing. I wear my wool t-shirt all day everyday on 3 day backpacking trips and don't have issues with odor. (I tend to sweat alot especially while backpacking.) I can wear synthetic for a half day and can hardly stand the smell! I have been wearing synthetic but am switching to wool mostly because of the odor thing. On longer hunts I'll be able to spend the time hunting instead of doing laundry.
The vests at Two Tracks that Chris make are awesome. It's wool felt and will last a lifetime! Two Tracks, a sponsor, are great people to work with. Peace!
I have found that Sierra Trading Post which has a website sells randomly wool clothing for hunting. Also you can check some of the mountaineering supply places for woo long underwear at least. I find having the wool underwear keeps me the most comfortable when used.
I'll take it that I'm not getting my Morrison, nor will you be eating your words? :readit: :banghead:
I buy I lot of my wool from goodwill , for a buck or two . Match up with the right long john
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