I have never really had good luck with carbons, with my draw length 31" and the need for a 32" arrow and my draw weight 59# @ 31" I always seem to fall right in between arrow spines to where my arrow is to light with the lighter spine or to heavy with the stiffer spine so I gave up on them about 3 years ago.
Well the bug bit me again and I decided to give it one more try. I never did try the skinny ones so I'm going to give the MFX Classic 340 a try. When all said a done I'm hoping for an arrow around 600 grains. The MFX is going to sport the VPA terminator in 175 or 200 grain with a 75 or 50 grain hit insert. If it works :pray: I should have a killer arrow.
One of these day I will find that one arrow that will just make me smile. Wish me luck from past experience I'm going to need it.
Just foot it with a piece of re-bar.Good luck !
I'm in the same boat. I am shooting full length 7795s that nock right with bare shafts and 175 gr. field points. With 7 inches of crest wrap and four 4" shields my arrows weigh 578 right now, so 200 grains (just ordered 200s and 250s this morning) would put me right at 603 grains.
pops, im shooting 59lb at 31# with my widow and im shooting Full metal jackets 300 spine 32" long and they bare shaft great for me with a 75gr. brass insert and 125 field point.
I think you'll like those arrows. You just can't beat a Beman MFX Classic!
I'm shooting 54 @ 31
300 spine with 220 up front including insert. that bow is cut a little past center...
590 grains or so.
yeah, 31 inch draw and arrow finding is not the funnest game.
I doubt I will ever shoot another arrow now that I've "discovered" Beman MFX.
I shoot my age - 10 so I need only 600 or 500 spines with my arrows ending up at 414-500 depending upon which way I go. I long (a little) for the days when I shot my age + 10 by the way.
Pops, the mfx classic is 11.2 gpi, the axis and beaman bone collector are 9.5 gpi if your looking at weight. Easton's web site lets you print a $10 mail in rebate for a dozen, $5 for 6.
Pops, I shoot 58-62@31 with all my bows and with some bows I find the CX Heritage will fit some of the spine gaps as they are spined a little different than the typical 300,340,400, etc... They are some of the heavier carbon shafts as well.
QuoteOriginally posted by Oregon Okie:
yeah, 31 inch draw and arrow finding is not the funnest game.
Yup it can be a pain, I'm not looking a gift horse in the mouth, but I like to tinker and am envious of the guys with shorter draws that can play with a lot of arrows to make what they want and we are stuck with what will work weather it's what we want or not, don't get me wrong when I go out in the field I am very happy with a set up that works just the tinker side of me can't play like I want to :banghead:
I switched to the beemans last year. I shoot 56@28. Im shooting 340's, 75 grain insert, cut to 31.5" and 150 grain head. They seem to fly great, but I had to put off fine tuning until I heal.
GREAT arrows. I was impressed with CE 150's. I only broke one at the Muzzy(arrow eating stump shoot). My buddy didnt even ding one of his beemans, and that is when I decided the next arrows I tried would be mfx. So far very happy.....except for the amount of strain it take to remove them from the foam targets. :D
Udate..... recived my MFX 340, again to light when tunned. Ordered some Axis 300, just recived those and again to heavy when tuned. so i have some good tradgangers sending me some 2016 cutoffs that i will try footing the MFX 340's with to try to stiffin them up. This should allow me the keep the weight i need up front. I will use the 75 grain HIT insert ( i really like these by the way) and a 175 grain tip and will adjust the footing lenght untill it tunes. Should have the cutoffs any time. I think this will work, :pray: Again wish me luck unless you are in the market for some MFX or Axis then dont
:biglaugh:
wtpops, the footing will increase the diameter of the shaft at the side plate possibly making them act stiffer. Adding more weight beyond that of the footing might take care of that and your lightness problem.
QuoteOriginally posted by chopx2:
wtpops, the footing will increase the diameter of the shaft at the side plate possibly making them act stiffer. Adding more weight beyond that of the footing might take care of that and your lightness problem.
I plan on starting out with a 3" footing this will reach back 1" past the incert and as far as dynamic spine will in effect shorten the shaft by 1" which should stiffin the shaft quite a bit. I will most likly end with a footing a bit shorter than that, im guessing some where around 2.75 to 2.5 inches but will start with 3" and assumeing to stiff at this lenght will cut the footing shorter untill it comes into tune.
I would try the carbon express heritage series 150 shafts or an arrow dynamics shaft.
QuoteOriginally posted by JamesKerr:
I would try the carbon express heritage series 150 shafts or an arrow dynamics shaft.
The 150 is way to week for my set up remember i need a 32" arrow. Im like right in between a .340 and .300 deflection, i can get both of these to tune but the 340 ends up way to light for my liking and the 300 ends up way to heavy. i think footing the 340 to make it stiffer might just solve this. Thank you for the input
wtpops, can you add more fletch or perhaps a cap wrap to stiffen the 340's?
Try Hertitage 250s and add weight untill you get there. It will happen
QuoteOriginally posted by awbowman:
Try Hertitage 250s and add weight untill you get there. It will happen
The 250 has a .373 deflection and will be way to week i am between a .340 and .300
Pops, keep us posted on your findings. I always like to see what other long draw shooters get for results, especially because I have a new bow coming. It will be 58# at my 31" draw. I am planning on going with the CX Heritage 350 which are .320 spine and 12GPI. I've used them on my cut to or past center bows at around 60# and ended up with arrows 32-33" long with 150-225 up front depending on the bow.
Look into the CX Maxima Blue Streak carbons, remind me of the Grizzlystik arrows by Alaskan Bohunting supply, but with better components and they come in longer lengths than the Beman. These shafts are Spine Weight Forward.
:goldtooth: :goldtooth: :goldtooth:
Well the footings did the trick. Put a 3" 2016 on the MFX 340 shaft and it stiffened it up just right. The first bare shaft out of the Boarder Black Douglas flew so good i got that 10 year old, i just got what i always wanted smile on my face, I must have shot the bare shaft 15 times and it hit right where i was looking and some of the best flight I've seen out of my shooting in a long time. I am so happy i could just....well you know.
Footed and fletched up a cupule and all i can see is a white knock with fletching spinning around it as it flies right to where I'm looking.
Here are the specs on the finished arrow...
32" MFX 340
75 grain HIT insert
175-grain point
32 grain 3" 2016 footing
3-grain point adapter ring
Total up front 285 grains
Total arrow weight 662 grains
Comes to 11 gpp
20% FOC
This thing it going to be tipped with a 175 grain VPA Terminator.
This is going to be one hog-killing arrow.
Did i say :goldtooth: :goldtooth: :goldtooth:
Excellent news! Thanks for keeping up with the thread and glad you found what you were looking for.
Just a tip for all you long draw guys:
I used the footing as a tunning aid and not so mush as a protection aid, something i never thought of doing before. The footing will make this arrow almost indestructible and ofcourse is a huge plus even though that was not my main objective.
These arrows did end up a bit heaver than i like but they are flying so good out of my Boarder with the HEX 4 limbs that i am very pleased with this arrow. The Boarder is about 3# heaver than my Widow that i was trying to tune these to and the HEX 4 limbs seem to have a little more kick so at 11 gpp I dont seem to have any drop in trajectory (the trajectory that im used to). I think its going to work out well.
Glad to hear this thread! From another 31 incher
How far away were you shooting your bareshafts?
For hogs that would be a killer arrow.
Anything added to the end of the shaft will weaken it, did you add it to the nock end?? Also if added to point end it will become a breaking point as anything much past the insert creates a point at which the shaft will break. Shoot a fletched shaft thru paper at 12 ft. or so and see what type of tear you get! Shawn
I re-read your post and do not see how even adding 3"s to the insert end can stiffen the dynamic spin. The last bit of a shaft does not go thru paradox that I am aware of, please explain how it acts to stiffen the shaft. Shawn
The lenght of the footing (3") may cause the shaft to act like is was cut shorter, Flex point would be behind the footing. If it was just weight added then it will weaken, I may have to cut different lenght footings and see what affect it has on static spine, if any..
I tried some longer footings and got more stiff acting flight, but not sure it was a stiffer arrow or just the dia. of the arrow moving it out from the riser. You can also try larger or more silencers, thicker string, and a little something behind the strike plate to work it out. I have been amazed at times what silencers changes will do.
It is not just you long draws that can have problems. I draw 29 ½" and have issues with some bows because I fall between 500 and 400 spine. I have the same too light and too heavy issues if my bows are lighter weight and or cut out from center.
QuoteOriginally posted by Shawn Leonard:
I re-read your post and do not see how even adding 3"s to the insert end can stiffen the dynamic spin. The last bit of a shaft does not go thru paradox that I am aware of, please explain how it acts to stiffen the shaft. Shawn
The HIT insert is 2" long when you add a footing that is longer than the insert, in my case 3", you are in effect making 3" of the arrow non-flexable and in my case turnning it into a 29" arrow.
With the 2" insert and no footing it makes a 30" arrow. The 32grains added to the tip is no way near enough to off set the 1" loss in carbon arrow length therefore making it stiffer.
QuoteOriginally posted by Shawn Leonard:
Anything added to the end of the shaft will weaken it, did you add it to the nock end?? Also if added to point end it will become a breaking point as anything much past the insert creates a point at which the shaft will break. Shoot a fletched shaft thru paper at 12 ft. or so and see what type of tear you get! Shawn
In reguards to the breaking point you are correct but all i really did is move my breaking point from 2", the back of the insert, to 3" the back of the footing.
QuoteOriginally posted by JDunlap:
How far away were you shooting your bareshafts?
From 15 then 20 yards, thats all i can get out of my back yard.
Sorry but watched a bunch of slow-mo footage and the last few inches does not flex upon release or appear to flex, it does on impact but not wrapping around a riser on trad bow or at the shot, the flexes is several inches behind the point at the least more than 3 from what I have seen. Shawn
QuoteOriginally posted by Shawn Leonard:
Sorry but watched a bunch of slow-mo footage and the last few inches does not flex upon release or appear to flex, it does on impact but not wrapping around a riser on trad bow or at the shot, the flexes is several inches behind the point at the least more than 3 from what I have seen. Shawn
I have seen a few of those videos my self and agree with you on what you see. But we all know and i assume agree that to tune a week arrow you cut some off and it stiffins the arrow all i did is in effect shorten the arrow with out cutting it off by makeing it non-flexable.
Also with Stu's calculator, when he first came out with it I asked him if he had accounted for the insert making that first 1" of the arrow non-flexable he said he had not and soon changed it to account for it. Also in the instructions it states that if you use a longer insert such as a HIT or the longer 100 grain brass insert to account for it in the calculator.
All i have done is used this principal and made the first 3" of my arrow non-flexable which has the same effect as cutting off 3" as far as dynamic spine goes.
There you go than, I do not believe in Stus calculator. Escp. when it come to FOC. I have tried it and entered all the correct info. and it is always wrong for me and my real world results. Shawn
QuoteOriginally posted by Shawn Leonard:
There you go than, I do not believe in Stus calculator. Escp. when it come to FOC. I have tried it and entered all the correct info. and it is always wrong for me and my real world results. Shawn
Ya the calculator does not work for me eather, to many form variables. But does work for most.
But the concept of a shorter shaft or one where a part of it is rendered non-flexable being stiffer is purity much a givin.
Anyway thank you for your input.
Very glad to hear you got it worked out. That combo of weight and foc should penetrate well. Thanks for sharing your process, adds another tuning variable to the mix.
Hey pops congrats on finding "the" arrow!
That's all we really want anyway. I got some .340 MFX Classics too and will hopefully get them dialed in here shortly.
regarding the flexing, the proof is in the pudding. I have personally been baffled in the past as to why a shaft got stiffer when going from a longer insert but the same overall weight from a test arrow.
The tip may not flex, but stiffening it does move the point that does flex farther from that tip, thereby making it stiffer like you found.
When are you going pig hunting?
Rick,sorry did not mean to sound crass!! I am glad it worked out for ya, I just get a kick out of all this stuff, after all it is not rocket science and all about the fun!! Good for you bud!! Shawn