I have snapped a string and came close to snapping another one in about 3 days. The first string that snapped was older but when I inspected it when I first received the bow it looked to be in fine condition. It snapped at the loop where the twists come together. It was on the top nock at the time. The second string that was frayed badly, but not snapped, was made by me. I am not a pro but it was made well enough not to break. It frayed at the same point that the first string broke at. Both were D50 string 12 strand. I only shot 10 or so arrows out of the first string and less than 50 from the second.
I began looking over the nocks to see if there were sharp edges. There wasn't anything note worthy. I did a search and most posts said sharp edges. One post did catch my eye though. It stated that breakage around the loop can be caused by too light of arrows, basically dry firing my bow. I do not know the exact weight that I am pulling (will find out soon though) but my arrows are 410gns +- 3. If I were to guess how much I am pulling I would say form 50-55lbs.
So after making another string and taping myself I discovered this happening on my bow. Not sure if this is a helper in diagnosing the problem but it never hurts.
The first two images go together. The first is at anchor and the second is 1 frame after release. I notice the lower limb moving quite a bit more than the top. I am shooting 3 under.
(http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k571/kyle_rinkenberger/Screenshot2011-06-21at54703PM.png)
(http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k571/kyle_rinkenberger/Screenshot2011-06-21at54705PM.png)
The next 2 images are how the string is acting after the arrow is gone. It is a wavy, crazy mess. Seeing this is more proof that I am shooting too light of an arrow, but I am no expert.
(http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k571/kyle_rinkenberger/Screenshot2011-06-21at54623PM.png)
(http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k571/kyle_rinkenberger/Screenshot2011-06-21at54600PM.png)
Thanks for the help.
Kyle
I don't think you should shoot that bow anymore until you find out if that is normal or not. It doesn't look right.
Did you also try and shoot it split finger with pictures ?
Sounds like a bunch of marginal things may have added up for your failure. First string was old, second string was frayed, 12 strand B-50 is marginal for a 55# bow (normally a 14-16 strand would be used), arrows are very light at less than 8gpp. The first thing I'd do is order or build a 14 strand string and add a little weight to get those arrows up to at least 8gpp or more.
Hmmm, looks like that lower limb finished up way ahead of the upper; but that could be camera angle or something. Might be worth checking tiller so see if it's way out of wack; although I don't know if that would cause string breakage as much as just funky arrow flight.
The fraying of the second string happened during the 50 or so shots. The string was new and in perfect condition when it was put on. It was removed after the fraying was found.
Kyle, I'm no expert in the physical dynamics of a bow in action but that looks really bizzare. In your first tow pictures look closly at the string silencers (top and bottom), see how far the lower one has moved in the second picture compared to the top? I'm referencing the top one by the white marks in the clipped off picture at the top of the frame and the lower by distance from the edge of your jeans. In the last two pictures look at the bend of the upper limb compared to the lower. The top limb looks like it is still significantly bent and not recovering at any where near the same rate as the lower limb.
Your arrow is a little light if your numbers are close but I don't think that is the culprit here. I'd look to the bow and hopefully some bowyers will chime in here.
GREAT pictures by the way!
The top limb is definitely bending quite a bit more than the bottom limb at full draw. Did ya check the limb nocks for any rough edges? Shawn
Bow way out of tiller....and I aint no bowyer.
Looks to be badly out of tiller. I don't think I would be shooting it anymore. I wouldn't be surprised to see it delaminate if it is shot much more. Neat pics definitely show something is amiss.
Is there anyway to fix this problem? If this were a random bow I would be fine with putting it down. This is my first REAL trad bow and it was given to me by my grandfather. I don't have much history with it but it being my grandfathers bow I would love to hunt with it and build history. Plus its my only trad bow (and I promised myself I would take a deer with it this year) and I don't have the extra funds to get another bow. Decisions, decisions.
Get a hold of "whip" here.
This is his site....
http://www.prairietrad.com/page30.html
I've only heard VERY good things about the man.
brace hight?
The brace height is 7 in. Usually when the string stops streaching and I stop twisting the string it will break with in 20 shots. Not sure if that info helps.
i would be willing to bet that the top limb already has a break started. possibly a compression fracture. i can't think of any other reason why it's so out of tiller. be careful. can you post a pic of it's strung profile? don
looks to me the top limb has taken a permanent set back for one reason or another....and got stiff because of it.
The bottom limb is doing all the moving...like you said.
Looks like the upper limb gives a classic "D" profile and the lower a strong r/d profile.
Wish I knew enough to really help...
I would like to see a profile of the bow strung, and one at full draw at the same level. The camera angle may be adding to the distortion, but if it is any where near as bad as it looks, I wouldn't shoot it anymore. WAY out of tiller.
Bump up to the top to see if anyone else has anything to say.
Also I am going to get some 5 minute epoxy tonight and add weight in the form of .223 bullets to see if that helps. I get pics of the arrow flight with heaver arrows.
And Kat I will get pics tonight of full draw and normal braced. After hearing that my bow is out of tiller I checked in a mirror and did not see anything that would make me think it was out of tiller. With that said I was holding the bow and not using a tiller tree so I will have o build one as well.
Tiller issues!
Sorry. Looks like a cocked cannon to me. Not worth hurt'n yourself.
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:
Bow way out of tiller....and I aint no bowyer.
Ya got that right, WOW :eek:
QuoteOriginally posted by krink:
After hearing that my bow is out of tiller I checked in a mirror and did not see anything that would make me think it was out of tiller.
Krink....look at the bend of the top limb....
Then look as the bend of the lower limb....
Do you see the difference?
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/outoftilllerbow.jpg)
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Also...what is the draw weight of this bow?
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QuoteOriginally posted by don s:
i would be willing to bet that the top limb already has a break started. possibly a compression fracture. i can't think of any other reason why it's so out of tiller. be careful. can you post a pic of it's strung profile? don
check the belly side of the top limb. are there any small horizontal lines(chrysals)anywhere on the limb? if the bow had correct tiller before and has always been good until now, something has to have changed to cause tiller to be out so bad. don
It looks like the brace is way too low, allowing far too much forward limb movement.
Here are the pictures that were requested.
Terry I do not know the exact draw weight at my draw length but it is advertised as 58# @ 28. I am pulling 27 1/2.
(http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k571/kyle_rinkenberger/121.jpg)
(http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k571/kyle_rinkenberger/125.jpg)
(http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k571/kyle_rinkenberger/127.jpg)
I assume you used a digital camera. I believe they take a picture by scanning from top to bottom or vice versa. This means that the picture of the top pf the bow was taken at a slightly different time than the bottom of the bow. This would result in the limbs appearing out of tiller. It would also account for the string appearing loose. There may be nothing wrong with your bow. The picture may be "lying" to you. I would check with a digital camera expert before doing anything with the bow.
JW
interesting....
Jock Whisky- that is interesting. I think one way to test this theory is to video myself with the camera upside down. I think that would be a good tester to see if what you say is really happening.
cool idea.
(http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k571/kyle_rinkenberger/Screenshot2011-06-22at92413PM.png)
(http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k571/kyle_rinkenberger/Screenshot2011-06-22at92419PM.png)
Well I just tested it in less that favorable light but If you look at the string silencers it shows the top limb (shown on the bottom of the picture) moving first. I will get another video tomorrow in daylight to make sure.
Jock Whisky I cant thank you enough for putting that input in there. I am tech stupid and never would have known about that.
Here is the next frame that I forgot to put in. Looking at the limbs it really looks like the top limb is moving more. More proof that it is the camera.
(http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k571/kyle_rinkenberger/Screenshot2011-06-22at94124PM.png)
How do you check tiller? Do you measure, or look in a mirror ? :dunno:
Tiller check was done in a mirror. I dont have a tiller tree built. There is a pic that has me at full draw. Thats the best I can do right now
Have you measured the tiller? Measure from the end of the fades out to the string. Let us know what they each measure.
I wouldn't make a tiller tree just to 'check this bow'....I wouldn't worry about 'trick photography'...or jumping through any more hoops.
All you need to know and see is in this pic. You may not want to hear it...or believe it....but this bow IS out of tiller.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/outoftilllerbow.jpg)
Same with this new pic....you can see it without a tiller tree or the block trick.....face it...its out.
(http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k571/kyle_rinkenberger/127.jpg)
Got another question....your original post lead me to believe you are a new trad bowhunter? Yes or no?
If so....how committed are you to hunting with a tradbow? If you were to lay that bow down due to its condition, or hang it on the wall for a looker......
Would you be opposed to hunting with a TD Recurve as a gift till you could save up for a new one?....or maybe keep the recurve for a year and then pass it on to someone else?
Terry is right this bow is way out of tiller, The bottom limb is doing all the work and if you look at the full draw pick you can even see the handle is completely tilted inward toward the bottom limb.
What a offer Terry :thumbsup: I hope he dosen't take offense but the bow does have problems. I wonder what kind of hand shock he is getting with the limbs being so different and defentely a cause of strings going bad.
Tracy
the next thing that may go is the limb itself.
There is a place that fixes bows, contact Whip on this forum he may be able to help you out with this bow.
Good Luck.
Ben
Be hard to take offense to something so generous as the offer that I THINK terry is making him.
-looks for a bow that's out of tiller to show pics to Terry-
Just kidding! (maybe)
:bigsmyl:
I'd be pretty wary of shooting it anymore if it were me, man. Do as others have suggested and hit the "Directory" button above and search for Whip.
You are a class act, Terry!
Terry I sent you an email.
And I am not in the least bit offended, more so humbled.
Kyle
Krink....got your email....working on it....
Folks....someone emailed me about 3 days ago...they felt lead to donate a bow to another TradGanger but he wasn't sure how to go about finding the right person and situation to do so. That is why I made the offer....on behalf of another Trad Ganger.
When he emailed me, I could tell he was very much wanting to pass on the bow and the St Judes Mojo....as he was basking in the St Judes success.
I really didn't have a clue at the moment, but I've learned long ago...sometimes its best not to 'think' about it....and the answer will come walking right into your front door....
There will be more to this thread soon....the bow I mentioned is on a hunt right now.....But I'll be back with a sneak peak....
To quote Mudd: "How cool is that?...Way, I say."
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/hopesneakpeak.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/hopesneakpeak2.jpg)
:) :thumbsup:
QuoteOriginally posted by bayoulongbowman:
:) :thumbsup:
Yeah....that's what I say!
:thumbsup: :campfire:
Top notch :clapper: :clapper:
Also looks possible the bow was stored standing in a corner and the bottom limb took on more of a set and made it more r/d than the top. As Terry and many otherts said sorry but it is defintely out of tiller. Shawn
Terry Green, I have never met you, but I want you to know that I am continually amazed by the generosity and humility displayed by members on this site. Truly an outstanding gesture on your part.
All,
I recieved an email form Terry today that the bow will be shipped to me shortly. I want to say I have never met Terry or the gentleman who is donating this bow. I am unsure if the donator wants to be named or not so I will let him do that on his own if he wishes.
I want to publically say THANK YOU to Terry and the owner of the bow. If anyone reading this isnt sure of the character or the nature of the people here let this prove it to you. I do not sponsor, dontate, or give anyfunds to Tradgang (if there is a way I must have gone over that portion. If there is a way I will be more than happy to). I am basically a walk in off the street guy and I am being treated like a long lost friend.
I did not include this information to Terry (he may have known due to previous posts though) but I feel like I should let everyone know what kind of home this bow is coming to. I didnt include this because I did not want my job to be a reason or factor in why I should be on the recieving end of this.
I am a United States Marine. I am married to one of the best women in the world. I have 2 amazing children and my oldest who is 5 just got her first bow from cabelas about a month ago. She loves shooting with her daddy. Between 2005-2008 I did 4 tours to Iraq. I am currently teaching at our school house in Arizona. I LOVE hunting and the outdoors and treat that aspect of my life with the most respect I can think of.
Thank you once again.
Kyle
Kyle,
Welcome to tradgang.
Kyle.....this is what TradGang is truly about.
I did knot know of anything you posted about the bows new home.....this post was the 1st one I've seen of yours.
Like I said...sometimes the answer walks right through the door.
I'm sure you will love this bow...it is a beaut for sure...and I expect there will be stories to follow.
I haven't opened my email since I emailed you earlier to see your reply with the address...but will forward that address to the shipper of the bow.
Keep us posted on your adventures .....
:campfire:
:campfire: :clapper:
Way out of tiller. STOP shooting the bow as it could delaminate and likely injure you. Believe me no bow is worth going to the emergency room to get wood and fiberglass pulled from your arm.
Actually I've seen this same thing with folks taking pics with Iphones. Because of the scan rate the pics come out distorted. A photographer did the test in Norway with an Iphone and a high speed video. The Iphone showed the same as the pics shown on this thread and the video camera showed a perfect string travel.
So don't believe everything you see with new technology when it comes to high speed sampling.
Don't have an explaination for the broken strings but the bow does not look out of tiller either static or drawn.
Mike
Camera timing sure explains the difference between the before and after release pics.
Even after 50 years of string plucking.......I still stand amazed at those kind souls within our ranks that are of the spirit indicated above.
:notworthy: In so many ways!!
:campfire: TRADGANG!! :campfire:
:pray: GOD BLESS!
Slow
Lead by example is what I always say.
:clapper: Great job Terry and donator of this "Mystery" bow.
Very cool.
Mike....I did not know that about cell phone cameras....that could be the case with the pics...maybe he should send the bow to a bowyer to find out for sure.
If in fact it is OK....then the bow should be hunted.
The bow deal is a done deal either way.....this all happened for a reason....so we gonna run with it. :thumbsup:
:campfire:
WOW! What an amazing thread. First off Kyle thank you for your service to our country! And second Thank You Terry and mystery donater for reminding all of us what this sight is about and what one trad guy is willing to do for another. This is a must read thread.