What are the pros and cons,of a Flemish twist-vs-Endlessloop strings . What are you using, and why??? Thanks.
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SORRY, but i need to hijack your thread right up front here in your initial post rather than my words get lost on page 2.
if you did a search, this matter of flemish and endless bowstrings has hashed and rehashed dozens of times.
THERE IS NO CONTROVERSIAL "VERSUS" BETWEEN FLEMISH AND ENDLESS BOWSTRINGS
both types are valid and both will get the job done.
pick one from a subjective aesthetic view point and go hunt.
~ rob, trad gang admin.
I use Flemish for the look and they seem quieter and more durable to me. As far as the speed I don't know.
I agree, Flemish Look 500% Better! :thumbsup: As for Performance, cant tell any difference, just as long as they are both WAXED GOOD!! :goldtooth: :archer2:
I use flemish but in the past used endless. I like the flemish due to being quiet, and better looking than endless. However I'm considering going back to endless when I need a string again as they don't seem to stretch as much as flemish. Both work, choice is up to you.
PERSONALLY, (of course to each there own), using an endless string on a traditional bow is kind of like buying a custom bow made in China. It just doesn't seem right to me.
Does it really matter though? No, it doesn't.
Both are good strings if they are made right.
I'm a flemish twist fan. Like the others I have to say looks and quietness are the main reasons. Are they a little slower? I guess but that's ok
I like the look of flemish and they do tend to be slightly quieter, but I like the durability and consistency of endless loop strings better and if well made will shoot faster and can be as quiet as well. Plus they are so much easier for me to make and get consistent lengths out of! The hardest part is doing the padded loop or double loop serve, but it's really not too much trouble.
I LIKE flemish too! They are probably a bit slower than endless, but I think its worth it . Looks better and since I can make my own flemish to me its easier and more practical .
Flemish seems to be quieter to me,and I just plain like the way they look
When I started shooting a bow in the late 70s, endless strings where the norm! Didn't even know that a flemish string existed.
In the 80's, when I started to search for info on them, it was like a long lost secret.
The intial stretch of a flemish is part of the construction, twisting of the bundle, lays, plys, whatever you call them! An endless works against the fibers right away!
I say, learn to build or know at least the construction process of both, and at least know how to serve a string, and enjoy the accomplishment of building what you enjoy, and Shoot the Heck out of it! All good!
Flemish for me too because I like the way a flemish string looks.
Endless is more precise, take it or leave it. For me it's take it.
what lc said.
i can make an endless to any length the 1st time.
Use em' both but prefer making the Flemish style. I seem to be able to make better adjustments using the twisting of the Flemish. The endless loop does not allow the same adjustability. No noticeable difference in shooting either. I'm only familiar with dacron, however, not sure about the no stretch threads.
Endless is faster than a flemish, substantially in fact. I would also argue that the endless is the traditional choice for a fiberglass bow. I shoot both, but use an endless for when it counts.
Bbj, faster in shooting or construction?
The reason the endless was used with advent of fiberglass bows, manufacturing prodution
#s. Yes they could be turned out pretty quick and at precise lengths!
But they're folks who would argue traditon and speed! :)
I build and shoot both, because I need to know the qualities or lack of, in new and old materials!
Now if I were in the bush and had a small spool of say Astro flight in my pack, broken string, no spare, I can build a flemish twist, quickly! :bigsmyl:
oops, my bad! :eek:
like material and like thread count, I'd argue the speed thingy... :bigsmyl:
I've built a goodly number of both types over the years... and on my bows you will find Flemish... :goldtooth:
Its faster in construction and it is faster in speed. Put it on a chronograph. String construction has a larger effect on performance than string material. I do agree with knowing both types though, a knowledgable archer should be familiar with all types and materials of strings, bows, and arrows.
Weight, and elasticity are the primary factors in how fast a given string is.. So yes construction methods will matter although a gwt of serving material is equal to a gwt of string material.. End servings on the endless and the center serving on both all equal added weight and have an affect on the speed.
After making strings for 25+ years, both types will work just fine. Looks and performance are both reasons for one over the other. In the end eithere type will work just fine,use what YOU like and go hunting.
I'm with Mark on this one.
Does anyone know what Fred Bear or Howard Hill used? It seems to me all the old Bear bows came with an endless loop string. I see more endless loop strings on older bows than I do flemish, so how is flemish more "traditional"?
Using 8125 I can't see any difference at all - the endless seem easier to make - or maybe that's just me. In any case, in the final analysis, "all tastes are tastes" and taste is which most people choose one or the other.
There's of high grade fertilizer out there about how one is much worse than the other, but that's all it is. If you use string material appropriate for your bow and your strings are correctly made, the difference is personal preference.
I've never seen a difference personally in shooting the two. I've been shooting an endless loop again after 15 years or so of flemish, and I'm really liking it. The served string loops appeal to me. Also I'd feel sacreligious putting anything other than a white string with red serving on the bow I'm currently using.
R
The differences are generally minor, but can vary with the bow, how well (or poorly) either is made, etc. If you get a "substantial" difference in speed...well, I guess we would first have to decide what a "sustantial" is. 2-3 fps? 10-15 fps? If it's 2-3, then I agree--you can get that much. If you call it 10-15 fps, I'd say you weren't comparing equal strings.
To answer the original question, each do have substantial up's and down's. Flemish is more adjustable--nice, especially when tuning a new bow. Flemish is generally quieter (properly made), especially on a recurve.
Endless are easier for most folks to make precisely with less practice. Flemish seems to take a little more practice to get right. Endless settle in quicker and don't retract (in the HMPE materials at least) when you un-string your bow like flemish strings will.
Both get the job done. It's mainly a matter of personal preferance. I shoot flemish most of the time, but tinker with endless. I have one bow that just doesn't look right with anything but an endless string on it.
That's one of several reasons it's nice to know how to make your own strings--endless and flemish. You can tinker with both and see which you like best.
Chad
flemish as they are easier to make.