Trad Gang

There was a blurb on last night's local TV news that the NYS DEC is considering opening the Southern Zone bow season on OCT 1st - two weeks earlier than normal.  Nothing on the DEC website to confirm this, but the WBNG-TV website says the DEC "is accepting comments" until JUL 28th.

They already open on Oct 1st on Long Island, why not the rest of the state ??? Makes sense to me.

There's going to be a youth gun hunt thrown into the mix also.

Cool.  Wonder if they'll open it up to bow, eventually.

Is 45# enough to harvest a youth?     :laughing:  

(sorry)

I,m all in favor of getting the youths involved however a gun hunt during the early archery season            

Maybe we can get them to open up a trad archery season from Sept 15 - Oct 15 after all they have muzzle season and they took our best weekend and started gun season then instead of leaving it on Mon for the opener

We've also now got a crossbow season added in with muzzleloader and late bow for the 9 days after regular deer season.

New York Bowhunters has been pushing for the Oct. 1 opener to compensate for the loss of time we had a few years ago at the end of the season.  Personally, I liked the later time frame as the rut was either heating up or in full swing later.  NYB also suggested opening the northern zone on Sept. 1 but most of the guys I know up here don't want to see it, including me.  We don't have enough deer as it is in the Adirondacks and I routinely see fawns with spots in early Sept.  I don't believe it is ethical to kill a doe that early in the season with such young fawns.  But, that may be just me.
Mike

Charlie, thanks for the heads up.  This is the first that bI have heard of this.  If it happens it is going to interfere with Grouse hunting!

A few years ago NY Bowhunters offered the DEC the last week of bow season to be used as an early muzzle loader season in exchange for the first 2 weeks in October for archery. They did not ask what the NY Bowhunter members wanted, the leaders just did this because it is what they wanted. That is when I quit the organization.

The proposals being offered are not in the best interest of bowhunters. Read through them carefully. The number of dedicated bow hunting days is reduced considerably.

I've heard about the October 1rst opener.  I didn't hear about the youth gun hunt.  Does anyone know what dates are being proposed?

Another thing I heard rumored but don't know if it was true, is the expansion of the 3 point rule into WM unit 3A.

Ditto what IndianaBowman said.

Not sure what I think about this yet. This is all part of the "5 year WT management plan." have to have some give & take. The youth age was lowered to 12 for bow hunting. I will admit I am not thrilled about guns going off during bow season but if it gets the kids out there I am for it. They have a week of muzzle loader in October in PA where I hunt & it hasn't hurt my bowhunting, but there will be more action with a youth hunt. They are the future & we need to get them out when the weather is nice & deer are moving. Just not sure how well it will work.

Not sure what I think about this yet. This is all part of the "5 year WT management plan." have to have some give & take. The youth age was lowered to 12 for bow hunting. I will admit I am not thrilled about guns going off during bow season but if it gets the kids out there I am for it. They have a week of muzzle loader in October in PA where I hunt & it hasn't hurt my bowhunting, but there will be more action with a youth hunt. They are the future & we need to get them out when the weather is nice & deer are moving. Just not sure how well it will work.

Sometimes here in PA the rut isnt really in until the season is almost over or over already. Last year I seen nine differnt bucks the last day of archery season. Funny thing is I already had taken a buck and was trying to shoot a doe. PA's bow season keeps getting shorter too, we have a early youth program and a inline muzzleloader season too. I just wish they would leave our archery season alone, good luck this year

I am in favor of the antler restrictions though each year I have seen a increase of bigger and more mature bucks in PA. I have no problem with the youth program but I think they could do that some other time during our hunting season.

An October 1st opener, which coincides with small game, upland and pretty quickly, duck and turkey seasons, does little for us. I am afraid we will get a gun season thrown in during the best part of the bow season, which is the first couple of weeks in November here in NY.

looked on the DEC site and didn't see it ?

I say leave it alone, there is always give and take and as said above all of a sudden they will say since bow is open early we will open gun season the 7th or 10th 0f November.No Thanks!! If dec wants to get the kids involved lower the age for gun hunting 12 like lots of other states!! Everything dec is doing seems to cut into our bowhunting lately!! NYB also does some things without asking the consensus of its members as well!!! Leave it be!!! Shawn

I have the 5 year deer plan if anyone is interested.  There is a 3 day youth hunt on Columbus day weekend, potential for a 4 day MZ season immediately after the youth hunt, resulting in a 7 day gun season in the middle of bow season.  10/1 opener in SZ. The day structure appears to be different, but looking to get that clarified.

Unless I am really misunderstanding something, this is pretty much the same plan offered back in 2005.  

Up North, same youth hunt, could use DMPs in bow season in areas that offer DMPs, gun season pushed back one week and can bowhunt the late season.

Adkarcher

All for Oct. 1 opening... and also love getting the kids out...but not with guns...why not get the kids into archery. Why do they need a gun? A kid and a bow and arrow are like white on rice. Everyone on this site still has the little kid in him. Why do we need to make it easy for kids to get them interested? That is NOT the answer. Teaching values and the spirit of the chase is the key. The backyard shooting, and preparation is half the fun.

And remember, we already gave up a weekend in 2005 for youths.  That was one of the main reasons for the Sat. opener, so kids could hunt.  Bowhunters lost a valuable weekend.  As you write the DEC and your legislators, we need to mention that.

Mike S. I never understood that premise of young fawns on  milk and the earlier opener in the NZ.  You do not have to shoot everything that walks in front of you, you can pass up the shot and hold out for a lone adult doe or buck.  No different than in October.  Maybe we will get another week later in the season if this plan gets approved, but until this plan, only an earlier opener has potentially been on the table.

In Wi the bow season opens the middle of September.  I see no reason why that couldn't be the case here.

Then again in WI most gas stations, restaurants and hotels all have large signs welcoming hunters.

Most hunters drive around with camouflage and blaze orange on head to toe. and most people you meet hunt or have a hunter in the family.

You do not even see a hint of that here in NY in the past few places I have lived.

Maybe we should try and change peoples perception of hunters, then maybe legislation would follow.

Personally I am for longer archery hunting seasons.  So if that means leaving well enough a lone or changing laws lets do it.  As far as a youth Hunt, great!  Some other states have designates game rich areas this can happen so as to not disturb private wood lots. Usually they are game preserves and such.

my land doesnt get good until the last 2 weeks of archery season, now its gone  :(


guess we will see how things work out

Any gun hunt whatso ever that occurs in the middle of our bow season I am against. Charlie we do not want that early opener, the foliage is thick it is hot and it would just give DEC an excuse to say well now you get a season opened a month earlier we can open gun season the 1st week in Nov. No Thanks, our rut really picks up here from Nov. 3rd to the 20th roughly and that is when the best bow hunting occurs. I hope all you bowhunters will not cave in and fight to keep any firearms season out of the first 2.5 to 3 weeks of Nov. in the southern zone!! Also it states above only an earlier opener has been mentioned but as we know from past experience when they give us something(earlier opener)they eventually will say we want to have an earlier opener for the gun season!! As I said leave well enough alone!! I am tired of givin my bowhunting up for another cause, as said above we already lost one of the best weekends in bowhunting for an earlier gun opener!! Sorry guys but I am ticked about this, that is why I am being so addiment about this! Shawn

QuoteOriginally posted by Shawn Leonard:
Any gun hunt whatso ever that occurs in the middle of our bow season I am against. Charlie we do not want that early opener, the foliage is thick it is hot and it would just give DEC an excuse to say well now you get a season opened a month earlier we can open gun season the 1st week in Nov. No Thanks, our rut really picks up here from Nov. 3rd to the 20th roughly and that is when the best bow hunting occurs. I hope all you bowhunters will not cave in and fight to keep any firearms season out of the first 2.5 to 3 weeks of Nov. in the southern zone!! Also it states above only an earlier opener has been mentioned but as we know from past experience when they give us something(earlier opener)they eventually will say we want to have an earlier opener for the gun season!! As I said leave well enough alone!! I am tired of givin my bowhunting up for another cause, as said above we already lost one of the best weekends in bowhunting for an earlier gun opener!! Sorry guys but I am ticked about this, that is why I am being so addiment about this! Shawn

Absolutely well said Shawn!  This is not a good thing at all for SERIOUS bowhunter!

Weekend warriors, and multi-weapon hunters I'm sure are all for it.....no thanx!!!

I'm against any gun hunt during archery season period. If everyone followed the game laws I would possibly be more receptive of it but I guarantee that this youth hunt will be misused. Adults will take a kid with them then end up shooting the deer for the kid. I know for a fact of people that do that with the youth turkey hunts. I wish I could get out of this p.o.s. state but conditions in my life right now won't allow it. What's next?

The document is pretty long (51 pages) and pretty vague. It does look like a October 1st opener then a three day youth firearm season on the first weekend followed by a 4 day (any muzzleloader) muzzleloader hunt. It also appears that there will be no antlerless or either sex tags issued when you purchase a lisence. All antlerless tags will be issued via DMP's by drawing (guess the bowhunters were killing too many deer antlerless deer in some areas?). Also it appears we may be a "One Buck" state.And the expansion of antler points reg in some more downstate areas. The time to get involved is now.

Antler restrictions are fine, but  any youth or muzzleloader season before that 3rd. saturday opener in Nov. should not be tolerated. All this does is take away what us bowhunters worked so hard to get and now to get it taken away is BS!!! Sorry early season around here is pretty lousy anyway and too make it earlier is just a waste. Tell me who to write or call to stop this new legislation cause this is a slap in the face to all NYS bowhunters!!! Shawn

Shawn sent you three emails you may want to look at.

Drew you have email.

NYB is already and has already been all over this.  Hope all of you are already members......

QuoteOriginally posted by Shawn Leonard:
Any gun hunt whatso ever that occurs in the middle of our bow season I am against. Charlie we do not want that early opener, the foliage is thick it is hot and it would just give DEC an excuse to say well now you get a season opened a month earlier we can open gun season the 1st week in Nov. No Thanks, our rut really picks up here from Nov. 3rd to the 20th roughly and that is when the best bow hunting occurs. I hope all you bowhunters will not cave in and fight to keep any firearms season out of the first 2.5 to 3 weeks of Nov. in the southern zone!! Also it states above only an earlier opener has been mentioned but as we know from past experience when they give us something(earlier opener)they eventually will say we want to have an earlier opener for the gun season!! As I said leave well enough alone!! I am tired of givin my bowhunting up for another cause, as said above we already lost one of the best weekends in bowhunting for an earlier gun opener!! Sorry guys but I am ticked about this, that is why I am being so addiment about this! Shawn

Full agreement here with Shawn as well.

Bob, will do! Thanks! Shawn

I'm in full agreement with Shawn as well.These proposals are not in the best interest of bowhunters and would only take away from 'our' season.

OK, just got done reading thru 51 pages of garbage. DEC has no clue what they are talking about!! Managing our deer herds should be left to qualified biologist not the guys we have workin for ENCON. Sorry but very little sense is made in their whole report. They have a few good ideas but most of it is not real world. The southern zone proposed changes would totally wreck deer season for bowhunters. 3 day youth and than 4 day muzzleloader would have the deer going nocturnal before the rut even starts to heat up. It is hard enough to try and pattern deer in the early season with all the available food and than throw in gun shots going off for a few days and it will pretty much wreck the rest of the season for bowhunters. If they want to involve the youths than lower the age to 10-12 with adult supervision for both gun and bow.  I really am frustrated, what are these(DEC)people thinking!! Obviuosly they are not!! Soon we will have crossbows allowed during our bow seasons. I am a multiple weapons hunter and shoot muzzleloaders as well as shotgun,rifle and pistol, but archery is my passion and I do not want people who have no clue about the real hunting opportunities out there to make these decisions. We all better shout from the top of our lungs or we will become a dying breed!! Thanks for listening!! Shawn

I have started sending the e-mails, but please remember to actually write letters on paper and send them as well. If the legislatures get inundated with paper mailings that has a tendency to hit home a little more as it is an actual physical piece of something as opposed to an electronic message that is easily dismissed. It is hard to ignore a 100,000 letters delivered to the govenors mansion in Albany. Please contact myself or Bob Brown with an e-mail and we will send you the e-mails Bob has spoken about containing these proposals!! Thanks! Shawn

For those that are members of NYB, you have already received these if you have a valid e-mail address....We fought the same thing back in 2005, we can do it again.

thanks Bob   :thumbsup:

Hi Marty,
I don't recall receiveing anything lately by e-mail.  Has something been sent recently?  Any way, keep up the good work.
Ron

Ron,

If your email address has changed we may not have it.  Please send it to me and I will pass it along.

Bob

Great job Shawn ! Pass it onto everyone you know. Bowhunters aren't the only ones who will see a change.

Ron P - all e-mails to all regions are complete as of this afternoon.  Please let me, Bob and/or the home office know what it is if you did not receive.

Were can I sign up to NYB?

Go to our website at  www.newyorkbowhunters.com (http://www.newyorkbowhunters.com)  If you use paypal) or pm me your address and I will get you an application out.  Thanks,

Shawn,

I am in agreement with you! When I said it would be ok if there was an earlier archery opener, it  was only archery.   :thumbsup:   You are right bowhunting in September kinda sucks with the bugs but, I usually went small game hunting and did very valuable scouting at the same time (usually on large tracts of public property).  Its nice to carry the bow just in case. I have passed up hundreds of deer early in the year for 2 reasons, 1, I didnt feel like cleaning them the same day and 2. didnt want to end my season so early at the time you were only allowed one deer by bow.

I think the gun season should be shortened considerably!  Where I come from, they have a 9 day gun season in November(over the week of thanksgiving)then Archery opens back up until January!  I think its rediculous you can tote guns for over 3 weeks here in NY!  

Cheers tro all the people who fight for their right to hunt in this state and protecting what is theirs

  :clapper:

I received an email alert from NYB last night. If anyone hasn't received it please email me and I will forward it along.

Hopefully NY won't take the same path as NJ, where its any weapon for two months and kill as many deer as you can.

I think New York looks at the money and the money only.. Most hunters are gun hunters with a smaller percentage being bowhunters, and an even smaller percentage being serious bowhunters (many are just passing time to get to gun).  New York knows this.. so, stick a "youth" gun season during bow.. now you sell even more tags.. dump a muzzleloader season in there and even more tags sold.. This state kills me... lower the age for gun and no need for a youth hunt.  As for muzzle loader.. hardly anybody uses the primitives anymore.. the inlines are rifles (some even shoot smokeless powder and are good to at least 250 yards).. using them during regular gun season is the best place for them.. again.. all in my opinion..

I continue to be amazed at the way the DEC manages the deer herd. Obviously, we are at cross purposes: they want fewer deer and more income from licenses; we want quality hunting opportunities, which means not only a healthy herd but also places to hunt and ample time to hunt. How to satisfy everyone is the impossible task. This comes up on an almost yearly basis at this point, and we are no closer to a "perfect" plan or solution.  :banghead:  

I may be saying something controversial here, but I think the "youth hunting days" are largely meaningless. If you want your kid to be interested in hunting you have to do a couple of things, starting when the kid is young. First, provide a positive experience by taking the kid with you, even when he/she isn't old enough to pull the trigger. Time spent with Dad or Mom is the real candy.  Second, limit (I really want to say eliminate) TV, cell phones, video games etc., and replace with walks in the woods, canoe trips, wild animal exposure and education. Then you'll have something!

I think if the DEC wants to extend the muzzleloader season, it ought to be into January, not in October when you can't see in the woods due to heavy foliage. (This is a safety issue as well as a bowhunting issue.) As a black powder hunter at times myself, I have always envied those states that had an extended late muzzleloader season.

The gun season is too long--10 days would be plenty, and would encourage those who truly love to hunt to take up other (primitive) weapons. The bow season has to be lengthy due to the limitation of the weapons: it simply takes more time to get a shot at an animal when you hunt with a bow and arrows. That's the attraction, for a lot of us, the hard work and fun of it.

My 2 cents.

I agree with everything you wrote, Susan.  And your statement about the youth hunting days being largely meaningless isn't controversial, it's pretty much the truth.

I agree.  The youth hunting days to me are not the answer.  Just lower the hunting age if they truly want younger folks to get involved AND sell more tags.  My dad used to let me follow along with him before I was legal to hunt, I just went with him and sat.  I knew I wanted to hunt well before I was legal to from those days.  I didn't need a special weekend that let me pull the trigger to solidify that within me.

Lowering the age would definitely be a better way than offering youth days which get abused more than folks think.
At our multi weapon club kids under 12 are not allowed to use the range because of state law even with a parent present,how stupid is that
Yes the gun season is way to long IMO

I just talked to Bob(wapiti chaser) a little while ago and there is a response letter from NYB that just needs to be signed and mailed,he's emailing it to me and I'll print up a 100 or so copies to have at our archery club as well as get them to local shops. I encourage anybody that can to do the same in your area this proposal will basically ruin bow season entirely

I received the notice from NYB as well.  I was working with a gentleman from Missouri a couple months ago.  He showed me a picture of a real nice buck his 9 year old daughter got last year.  He said there is no age limit there, and she got her first deer at age 6.  Obviously she must hunt with a parent.  She is pretty much addicted to hunting already, so Missouri will collect a lot of money from her for life.  He thought our age restrictions here in NY were a joke.

Jim,
I sent the letters and proposal to you as well. Anyone else that wants to see them shoot me a pm.

Bob

QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Spaulding:
 dad used to let me follow along with him before I was legal to hunt, I just went with him and sat.  I knew I wanted to hunt well before I was legal to from those days.  

This is what I'm talking about-- I have serious misgivings about lowering the hunting age, because I was a hunter safety/bowhunter ed instructor for a number of years and know that there is a VAST range of both physical and mental/emotional capacities among 10 to 12 year old kids. What's wrong with accompanying a parent even if you can't legally kill critters? What's wrong with developing woodsmanship skills (observation, patience, stillness) prior to being able to hunt?

Also, I was thinking about the supposed plan to give out one tag, no extra tags for bowhunting or muzzleloading privileges. I don't really see this happening, as it will inevitably lead to even lower license sales and lower harvest, which I don't think is on the DEC or NYS agenda. I think they want to expand their revenues, not sabotage them.
My 2 cents again

I recently purchased a lifetime license along with an archery tag.  I hope they don't eliminate the archery only tag, or I will be out some $$$.

Hi All,

This is the DEC page documenting the plan:
http://www.dec.ny.gov/press/75060.html

This is the paragraph explaining how to give public comment:

"Comments may be submitted in writing through July 28 to DEC Deer Management Plan, NYSDEC, 625 Broadway, Albany, NY 12233-4754 or by email to deerplan@gw.dec.state.ny.us using "Deer plan" in the subject line."

I submitted my response to the above email address and did receive an automated message saying they've received it and will review before adoption.. whether or not that is true, hey, who knows really, but it's a start.  PLEASE take the time to submit your thoughts to the DEC.  Thanks all.

I just printed out the whole 57 pages-- guess I have some reading to do.

I certainly don't need the DEC to tell me how or when I should introduce my kids to hunting. It's akin to schools handing out condoms. How ridiculous is that? We need to stop deferring the raising of our children to the schools and government. Youth hunting days are absurd! If you want to see how to introduce kids to hunting, just follow along on some of Guru's threads.

The DEC in NY is a joke. Look at home many times the refused to admit that Cougars are in the State. Is it a pet kitty that was killed by a car 70 miles from NYC a pet, don't think so.

also if the DEC can give one example on how they are working to improve habitat for the wildlife. From what I have seen in NY only the Nature Conservatory groups have done a better job in preserving habitat and taking care of it.