Trad Gang

I have been thinking about picking up a PSAX for a while now but I am hearing some severely contrasting opinions on Black Widow's present day quality. Not that they don't look nice but rather they have performance issues.

I know most everyone will say shoot one and decide for yourself and I will but I would like others opinions as well since not every bow is the same and in Black Widow's case not built by the same person. I want additional opinions to add to my cupboard before making a decision.

I have some really nice bows so please don't try to sell me on something else, I am asking specifically about Black Widows PSA or PSAX.

Thanks

What do you mean by "performance issues"?

If you mean speed, all the test results I've seen show good fps. Not the fastest out there, but right in the ball park for a given draw weight.

Widows are well-made, accurate and tough as nails.

I will tell you this:  I shot a SAII for 14 years and loved it.  I bought a PCH last year and its even smoother.  I think if anything, the quality may have gotten a bit better.

I was able to shoot several different BW models on a bear hunt with Toby and Roger this past fall, and they were all a pleasure to shoot, esp the PSA.

This is my 2 cents.

Hello there. Ive been shooting a PAS V for years and have not heard any thing about performance issues. It is not the fastest out there and dose not claim to be. Im 56# @ 31" and at 11 gpp i get about 185 to 188 fps. The one thing i like is it is a beautiful bow and is also a tank, i have no doubt it will out last me. As far as customer service their reputation speaks for its self. If you find that a black widow fits you you will not be disappointed

For 1000+ bucks on some of them, I'd sure hope it performs.

 :bigsmyl:

I am more than satisfied with my two widows.  

And while I may not be as "in the loop" as other guys, I do follow the online forums, and I have never before heard claims that the present-day performance quality of BW bows is inferior to past quality.  While that is always a possibility in the case of a long-lived product, I've not heard of it so far in the case of BW.

I am interested in the responses that you will get on this thread.  

Archie

It is a fine bow made by a fine company.  I have never heard anyone who owned one say any different.
Also, they have the coolest name and logo in archery.

I own a PL V and a PL X.  And I just ordered a new PCH X.  IMO the quality is outstanding and the customer service is as good as it gets.  Both my PLs are smooth, quiet and fast.

I visited the Widow Works last Spring.  Just a small warehouse in Nixa MO.  I was suprised at how small the operation really was--like six folks.  All of them were bowhunters and most of them were cowboys.  Got to meet Ken Beck as well ... and he is one class act (and retired).

I have owned several PSAX bows over the years and love them! I have also owned a PTFX,SAX and several PL's. Although I am partial to the recurve, all performed exceptionally well in my opinion.  The SAX was a bit light due to the absence of phenolic in the riser and limbs and so I didn't like it as much as the PSA. I currently own a PSAX cocobolo riser with spalted yew limbs. The bow is 62" draws 55#@30 and is a pure pleasure to shoot. I have heard some talk about the PSA as noisy and difficult to quiet. That has simply not been my experience. I take a great deal of time setting up my bow and make my own strings as well. I find 2 sets of woolie whiskers (I make my own) to be the best silencers for my bow. Brace height is 8 7/8", string knock set at 5/8" above center. Bow is fast, smooth and whisper quiet. Bow workmanship is excellent and customer service is unmatched. I enjoy shooting high end bows and I have owned several over the years. I currently have a Blacktail on order so I am not just a Black Widow shooter. Norm's bows are certainly more of a custom bow because there is a great deal more hand work involved in their construction. Limbs are not interchangeable like the Widows but both are exceptional in my mind! You can't go wrong with any of the PSA's in my opinion. The X model has bamboo cores and is touted to be slightly faster than the birch cores in the 11,111 and V. Hope this helps.

Ive owned 3 and have liked them all, and still own one ! Sweet bows ! BTW, Ive had 2 SA's and 1 PSA.

Thanks for the responses guys.

I really don't want to let in on the specifics of "performance issues" because I don't want any biased responses just your own experiences. I will say, I am not talking about speed but rather the way the bow shoots and feels.

you will not be disapointed! BW offers a couple of options on grips. if you get a grip that fits you! you will be impressed with the way the bow shoots and feels

Not the fastest....not the best looking, but one of the finest bows you can buy. Great customer service and just fine people to deal with. If you think you want a certain bow by all means you should get what you want. I have had a few of them and they were just great!! In the last year I have shot a friends PCH several times and it makes me think I should get another.....lol!

Buy a used one, shoot it for a while. If you don't like it trade it or sell it. You will never have a problem selling a widow. Depending on your draw length and weight, expect mid to high 170's to low 180's with 10 GPP. Most have a smooth draw past 28 inches with no hand shock. They are cut 3/16" past center which makes them sweet to tune and not very picky about spine. Ma's and Sa's tend to have a tad more weight then most bows but that can be a benefit. Some folks gripe about widows being loud, like most things in life there is always more then one way to remedy the problem. Hope this helps....

If how a bow shoots and feels is a "performance issue", then I don't know of any bow that doesn't have "issues". I'm a little puzzled by the question.
I have a PSAV and, yes, I've had bows that are both less and more sensitive to shooting form errors. I'd highly recommend them to any intermediate to advanced archer; but a beginner might want to learn on a more forgiving style of bow. Personally, I find them to be a great compromise between speed and stability as well as about the most bulletproof bow out there.
I too have toured the Widow works and am also puzzled by your comment that the bows are not made by the same people. At least when I toured a few years ago, one person did all the layups, one did the tillering and another did the finish work. And yes, while a person lays up the riser, a machine cuts it; perfectly every time.
All that said, why not just take advantage of their "try before you buy" program? For a few bucks in shipping you'll have a definitive answer. I wouldn't worry about the difference between bows; I shot a BUNCH of then during the course of a 3 day seminar there and there wasn't a nickels difference between any of the PSA's that I shot.

I have had three different PSA bows from them, as well as a PCHX which I am shooting now. I have nothing bad to say about any of them. I Like the PCH the best, but I like a bow that is light and short for hunting. I don't think you can go wrong with a Widow.

I will also add this, I have had two Widow's with Bamboo limb cores and two with action wood limb cores. And while some will say they can't tell a difference, I think the Widow's with the Bamboo core has a much better feel. The Bamboo just seems smoother during the draw.

As others have said use the try before you buy. However, don't try one unless you want to buy one. Because after you try it, you will want it.
Good luck

i have a psa III and i love it. i just got a pa today and like it even better.

as others have said customer service is second to none. i don't know how far you are from nixa, but a roadtrip to the shop would be worth your time. i took a tour of the shop, shot tons of bows and had a blast just talking with roger.

can't go wrong with a widow.

I couldnt tell you of any quality issues. They make a great product consistently.

When people say Widows aren't fast what are you comparing them to?  Bowreports have them 194 fps with a 9 grain arrow.  The fastest I ever seen was 199 fps.  And Widows brace height is over a inch higher.  Seems pretty darn good to me.

As far as performance issues.  I dont know any and I've been shooting them for some time now.  From old MA's to new PCH's.

Swamp Yankee, "If how a bow shoots and feels is a "performance issue", then I don't know of any bow that doesn't have "issues". I'm a little puzzled by the question."

Some bows have more issues or more pronouned issues than others, I have been told by more than a handful that Widows are one of those bows, is that a little more clear?

I wanted some additional opinions on whether or not otheres belive the above comment to be true.

I have owned at least 10 BW recurves all made between 1995 and 2007..including a 60" MA, some 58" SA's, a 56" and a 58" TF, and some CNC 58" PSA's and a 54" and 2- 56"PSR's too. some had maple "actionwood", the newer ones had "actionboo" or birch actionwood.. all were nicely made,solid feeling and smooth drawing. I could not tell the difference between core woods.
2 years ago I sold my bow collection and have been making my own bows, I still have not made one as sweet as that 52#@28" 56" TF I had...

I think perhaps you should PM some of us who have replied and tell us exactly what your "performance" issues are and let us respond...  This hanging a comment out there without direct reference seems a bit disparaging to me.
I own:
1 MA III 45# @ 28", 62"
1 PL II  44 # @ 28",  64"
1 PLX 51# @ 28" , 62"
1 PF 50# @ 28", 62"

In no case in any of the bows listed above are there any performance issues.  The occasional operator error does how ever occur.

I also have been to the "Widow Works" and again, I feel questioning quality by the fact that there is more than one person involved in the production of their bows is frankly, "a bit out there."  

Let's hear what you are really talking about.  PM me... as you can tell I am pretty frank in my thoughts and will provide you with an honest opinion as regards your question.  I am an old guy and have been shooting this stuff for a long time.....

I would add that the quality may have increased now that they CNC mill most of the bow components.  The consistency is replicated through automation.  That may be a negative to some, but to others its an advancement.

Really, what it comes down to, is "shoot one and decide for yourself."  Even though it sounds like a copout, it's true.  Every well known bowyer, Black Widow, Bob Lee, Robertson, Morrison, and all the others, will have some customers who love their bows and buy more than one, and other customers who wonder what all the fuss is about.

At the moment, I own 3 Black Widows.  I have owned more than that in the past, and have sold some of them, but am unlikely to sell any of the three I still own.  In fact, one of the ones I still have is a 65# BW that is really too much bow for me at my age, but I shot my first deer with it, and it is such a wonderful bow that I just can't bring myself to sell it.

I also own bows by the other Bowyers I named, and they all shoot different from each other.  Even the Black Widows shoot different from each other.  I honestly think you could take two PSAX Black Widows made from the same lams to the same specs and they would shoot different from each other, because they are each made out of a living product, wood, that doesn't entirely lose its individuality when you cover it with fiberglass.

You may buy the PSAX and love it and want to keep it all your life like I do my old SAII.  Or, there may be something about it you don't quite like, and you may end up selling it for a few hundred dollars less than you paid for it to someone else who will want to keep it all their life.

But one thing I can guarantee you is that the folks at Black Widow, as with the other bowyers I mentioned, put their hearts and souls into their bows, and each of them does everything that is humanly possible to make the best bow they can make for you.  And that's a lot, as they are all expert bowyers.

They really are an excellent bow. You would be very unlikely to get a bad one.

Don't have a psa but have a pma and there just is not an issue with it that I can feel.

Huntschool, relax, I am not bashing their product in any way shape or form just passing along what I have heard in an attempt to find out if it is commonplace or anomaly. Go back and read my opening comment, I don't feel as though it is accusatory at all. Again, I am just trying to gather opinions on Black Widows overall performance and so far it would appear to be almost entirely positive.

In regards to your "out there" comment I never stated that I felt multiple people working on a bow would render it inferior(your jumping to conclusions), I was trying to communicate that consitency would be harder to maintain with multiple operators as opposed to a single Bowyer. As a result I could see how varying shooting experiences could be more likely to exist.

Again, I didn't want to relay specifics because I didn't want bias. I wanted to see if others would communicate the same negatives I had heard in conversation, with locals, about recently built Black Widows.

Thanks again for the comments, like I said I will surely be shooting one or two or more before arriving at an opinion but I wanted current and past owners thoughts as well.

I think performance is different to all. I had a Black Widow SBS 60" 44# @ 29", at the same time I had and still have a RER 58" recurve 44# @ 29". The RER is faster, is not fussy on arrow spine and just a super bow,And out performed the Widow on all counts! That being said, the SBS was silent and had good cast and in all honesty, I wish I had never sold it. The psa I had was a fantstic bow, if it had been lighter I would still have it!

Pm sent....

BoonRoto:

I am good... sent ya a PM

With any product as big as Black Widow bows and out there as much as they are, you are bound to get some negative feedback. As you can see from all the responses here, there are extremely few negatives.  I have owned 6 widows, and still own four. I wouldn't put too much stock in your 'handful' of doubters. They are stellar bows with unbeatable service.

I've shot several different bows over the year's.  None of them have been near as smooth as my PSA III! Period. I have nothing bad to say about them.

Owned 5 since 1994, you can't go wrong with a Widow and great people to deal with.

The only performance issue I've had with my PSAX
is that it shoots better than I do.  Very consistent bow, most consistent I've shot to date.

Top of the line

A good solid product, backed up by excellent customer service by some very fine people. They are bowhunters just like the rest of us and when you call them, they understand what you are saying.

UGH!! Another one. I think this has been beat to death.    :deadhorse:    All I know is I love mine and at the end of the day that's the only testimonial I need!!!!     :cool:

Thanks for the replies and the pm's!

Owned 5 since 1994, you can't go wrong with a Widow and great people to deal with.

I just got my pma back Febuary.I don't think i could find a negative if i wanted to and as for as customer service top notch. Never owned a traditional bow till now you won't be disappointed.

You can't do any better listen to the posts above. Sound wisdom. TD.

I have one of their new PCH recurves and have had it less than six months and already taken two animals with it. I feel that it the easiest bow to shoot out there, as far as a recurve for hunting goes. Tough and well made easy to point and shoot very smooth drawing.Great people as well as great bows.
Mike

My PCHX is by far the best shooting bow I have ever shot, bar none and I have owned a lot.

I like to think that I  am unbiased because I am still new enough to this that I am buying and trying every bow that I get my hand on.  Saying this, I have developed my likes and dislikes.  I have owned Morrison's, Shafer's, and black widows.  I have shot blacktails, acs, bear, hoyt, pse, browning, and like I said, anything that someone will let me fling an arrow through.   I will share some of my likes, dislikes, and my current conclusions.  This just reflects where I am in archery at this point.  

My first bow was a loner longbow.  It was like 62".  I liked it, killed a deer with it. My second bow was a Black Widow PSAX.  I loved the weight, very smooth draw, and was quite fast.  I sold it because I hated the asbell grip.  I could hit anything I looked at with this bow.  I was extremely accurate, but did not know that the grip didn't suite me, and that I didn't have arrows spined correctly so I sold it.  I would always hit up and down, but be left no matter what.  

I have and still have several other high end brands.  I have much better form these days.  I understand how to tune.  There is one thing that stuck in my mind.   I know that I like a low grip, and a heavy bow, and that I was still as accurate with the Black Widow as I am with any of the others that I have today.  And these have my favorite grip, and properly spined arrows.  I will say that no bow should cost 1000 bucks or more, but that hasn't stopped me from buying. So joke is on me I guess.

Saying all that to say this.  I have a Black Widow PCH on order.  I have shot every grip they offer, and every recurve model from psa, ma, to pch.  I have shot heavy hitters, and light lb bows.  I settled on a 58" pch because it was super smooth, seemed quietest, loved the low grip, and has mass weight.  It feels like I am part of the bow when I shoot it.  They all were fast.  They all were not smooth, nor quiet, but one thing remained constant, no matter how bad the vibration or loud the noise, they all made me look like a decent shot.  I thought well, isn't this what it's really all about is making a good shot.  They may be made on a machine or whatever, but these guys know how to make a tough product that performs accurately.

Interesting thread.... Makes me want to try another widow. Had one about 17 yrs ago, it was nice.

BoonRoto,
I believe that whatever you have heard is simply untrue. JMO

Fast, accurate, and noisy ! I love mine!

Only 20% of my bows are widows; PSAIII, PAX, and PCHX. I can find absolutely no fault with my Black Widow bows.  While I love my Schafer, Rose Oak, Robertson, and Bear Takedowns from a practical standpoint I had no reason for buying another bow after buying my first widow.

The workmanship is terrific, I think they look great, especially the "X" models if you like exotic woods. They are hefty and dead in the hand compared to EVERY recurve I own. They shoot well enough to be practically boring at times. I know that is weird and I can't really explain it.

I don't have experience with most bowyers. However, I know of no recurve that is more quickly produced with better quality. Actually, the Pittsley Predator may be another.

If you look on any forum or talk to many people you will find someone that has a complaint to point out. I love my pchx as much as my green stripe 70's bear hunter. My bw shoots straight and is made deadly quite with lambs wool.
There are much more positive things about these bows than the negative. Go to the shop and shoot several. Good luck.

I like  my P T F X   shoots  good too  you  should test shoot one  and see   for yourself  mike

The bows prove themselves. What you get with a purchase is one of the finest companies to deal with. These guys are top notch!!!

QuoteOriginally posted by RUSTY1:
UGH!! Another one. I think this has been beat to death.     :deadhorse:     All I know is I love mine and at the end of the day that's the only testimonial I need!!!!      :cool:  

Razzlefrats, I think we all took the bait on this one.  We're all debating "issues" without any details in the interest of "no bias" answers?  What the heck is THAT supposed to mean?  I'm disappointed in myself for sticking my nose into this fray; over and out.

LOL! I almost bit on this one myself Swamp Yankee.
Looked like fishing to me.

I bought my first Widow MA on 1990,since then i sold and bought other Widows and I have seen the quality arise.I can compare them with other 13 Top Custom bowyers and they are among the best.Not fast demons but very dependable,very accurate and you can make them really quiet with a good skinny string.You can't go wrong with any Widow product.By the way my first 1990 MA is still launching arrows pretty good.

My SAIII  autumn Oak is the prettiest bow and I shoot the lights out of it. Thought about buying other bows but can't seem to let it go.

Great customer service, tough as nails and a great performer.

Will not win the speed race, will not win a beauty contest, but you will not find a tougher bow in the industry, the Timex of the bow world IMHO.

I've owned all models, and loved them all, MA 3, PL5, PSR 5, and PSA 5, although getting the newer PSA to finally shoot quietly was a labor of love. Their best quality in my opinion is that they are build to be tough as iron!

I have learned, any bow not tuned right has performance issues.

I was ready to throw my first bow on the ground until someone showed me the way, then I loved the bow!

QuoteOriginally posted by Swamp Yankee:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by RUSTY1:
UGH!! Another one. I think this has been beat to death.       :deadhorse:       All I know is I love mine and at the end of the day that's the only testimonial I need!!!!        :cool:    

Razzlefrats, I think we all took the bait on this one.  We're all debating "issues" without any details in the interest of "no bias" answers?  What the heck is THAT supposed to mean?  I'm disappointed in myself for sticking my nose into this fray; over and out. [/b]

I thought we already sorted this out through pm Swamp...... I thought we were cool but you have redrawn the line. If you can't understand the question I certainly have no interest in your opinion.

This was simply an inquiry, you guys are WAY to sensitive and quick to jump to conclusions. I haven't made ONE accusation in regards to the quality of Black Widow Bows, I consciously attempted to be discreet in regards to how I posed my original question in an effort to keep this thread from appearing to be a slam on Black Widow Bows. Why an inquiry? Beacause I am considering buying one! Forgive me for being diligent.

To everyone else, thanks for the insight and opinions.

QuoteOriginally posted by BoonRoto:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by Swamp Yankee:
   

QuoteOriginally posted by RUSTY1:
UGH!! Another one. I think this has been beat to death.        :deadhorse:        All I know is I love mine and at the end of the day that's the only testimonial I need!!!!         :cool:    

Razzlefrats, I think we all took the bait on this one.  We're all debating "issues" without any details in the interest of "no bias" answers?  What the heck is THAT supposed to mean?  I'm disappointed in myself for sticking my nose into this fray; over and out. [/b]

I thought we already sorted this out through pm Swamp...... I thought we were cool but you have redrawn the line. If you can't understand the question I certainly have no interest in your opinion.

This was simply an inquiry, you guys are WAY to sensitive and quick to jump to conclusions. I haven't made ONE accusation in regards to the quality of Black Widow Bows, I consciously attempted to be discreet in regards to how I posed my original question in an effort to keep this thread from appearing to be a slam on Black Widow Bows. Why an inquiry? Beacause I am considering buying one! Forgive me for being diligent. [/b]

For what it's worth, I've never recieved a PM from BoonRoto.

Swamp your right I apologize for that, I got you confused with someone else.

Remove the first sentence where you quoted me above and the rest can remain.

who in their right mind could "slam" a Black Widow Bow anyway? That just doesn't make sense unless you never had the pleasure to shoot one and are just guessing.

I think that this has been a profitable thread.  I personally have a very high opinion of all things Black Widow.  There was a lot of room here for negative comments, but they were mostly absent.  As they say, "The proof is in the pudding..."  I can't say that I didn't expect this kind of response.

I have a performance issue with my PCHX. I bought it hoping that my taxidermist bill would go down and intead it has gone up!!!! LOL!!!(shot recurves before, but, I hung up the wheelie for good 2 years ago when I bought the Widow) It performs too well, I can't seem to pass on anything and if I kill it with my Widow, I want it mounted. Mine is smooth and quiet. It shoots 10.9 GPI (613grain)at 180 fps. I don't want faster because, I can't see the arrow flight if it's much faster.

Now that you have 5 pages of positive comments, and by the way I shoot a SA III that I bought in 1999, and have never had an issue with, why don't you tell us what your concerns are. Maybe we are missing something, or pin point the answer you are looking for. I've thrown mine through bushes after a bad shot, dropped them out of tree stand, and it sounded like it hit every step on the way down, left it strung in my truck on 100 degree days. It still performs just like a brand new one. Could not ask for anything more.

OverPriced....... thats just my opinion of course.

Because there are several out there in 'used' land there are some fantastic deals on a regular basis. From what I've seen it would be pretty easy to save $300-500 depending  upon the model and whether exotics are involved or not.

They are great bows and I dont even have one. Ive shot quite a few but they dont fit my hand well so I shoot other bows better. Now the dozen or so guys I hunt and shoot with have or had maybe 25 or so widows over the years and have NEVER had any performanc issues, they just dont know what wood, length, poundage or model they like best.

QuoteOriginally posted by longbow55:
Now that you have 5 pages of positive comments, and by the way I shoot a SA III that I bought in 1999, and have never had an issue with, why don't you tell us what your concerns are. Maybe we are missing something, or pin point the answer you are looking for. I've thrown mine through bushes after a bad shot, dropped them out of tree stand, and it sounded like it hit every step on the way down, left it strung in my truck on 100 degree days. It still performs just like a brand new one. Could not ask for anything more.

I think thats fair. I have certainly heard more positive than negative but the negatives I have heard are: Considerable Hand Shock, Very Noisy, Production bow with lack of attention to detail and believe it or not I have had some describe their poor experiences with BW's customer service. Some of these negatives have been told to me by mutiple individuals and some have been isolated. I have shot some Black Widow Models but never a PSAX or PSA and thats likely what I would buy if I ended up with one. Like I said, I am just looking for information. If I would have listed my concerns with my original post I can't imagine the backlash I would have encountered and the intention of my original post likely would have been lost. Thanks all for the comments.

I've owned threee Widows and there the bows I compare everything else to .My SA111 does everything its suppose to and shoots way better than I do.I love it.There will always be a Widow in my stable and its usually my GoTo bow.

I think you have been misinformed.  I own a PMA and PLX and have found just the OPPOSITE to be true.
No hand shock, not noisy, excellent fit and finish (attention to detail), excellent customer service!  Black Widow gets an AAA+++ in my book in every aspect.

If you can visit the BW shop in Nixa, or visit their booth at an expo, you'll agree with all of the above.  

Then.....when you open that long box from UPS and lay your hands on a beautiful PSA that says, "Custom Made for Andrew Hare" you'll be a believer for life!  :biglaugh:

Ive heard people say they think Widows are noisey well all mine are not.
 Ive never heard anyone say that they have handshock.  I've never heard anyone say that they have lack of attention to detail.  But without a doubt and I've oreded alot of custom bows, would like to hear about someones bad customer service from the people at Black Widow.  I'm sorry but I call BS.

I'm not at all a fan of widows. Way overpriced for what you get IMO, not great performers, and not attractive, but that is just my opinion. That being said, I know they make a high quality product that has stood the test of time. There are just a LOT of other bows out there that I like much better, many of them that I consider superior for less money.

BOONROTO,I shoot a PSA 65lb @28" 600gr arrow, it shoot about 213 fps.I think they are the best bow out there.I bought it in 1987.But remeber its not the speed that kills,its accuratecy.  :archer2:

Another thought: What bow company's product has killed more game than Black Widow? Maybe Bear or Martin, but only maybe.

QuoteConsiderable Hand Shock, Very Noisy, Production bow with lack of attention to detail and believe it or not I have had some describe their poor experiences with BW's customer service.

It surprises me that anyone would say a BW had considerable hand shock.  The PSAX you're considering is a r/d recurve that is heavier than most comparable recurves.  You wouldn't expect hand shock to be an issue with a bow with that design, and in fact, no BW recurve that I have ever shot has had any noticeable hand shock.

The BW bows that I have owned have been noisier than I would like.  You can quiet them down by shooting a heavier arrow than I like to shoot, but given the same arrow weight, they tend to be noisier than my other bows.

BW is more of a production bow than other custom bows, in that BW uses computerized equipment to cut out risers, etc.  It has not been my experience that this results in any lack of attention to detail, and I consider my BW's to be finished as well as my bows from the other well regarded bowyers I mentioned in my first post.  In fact, I think you get the best of both worlds here, in that the components are made with a higher degree of precision than other bows, but the finish is equal to other bows.

I have dealt with BW for more than 20 years, and have never been disappointed with customer service.  I have visited the factory and met the people who work there, and they probably recognize my name when I call, so maybe I'm biased.  But they've always made me feel like dealing with whatever I called about is the most important thing they have to do at the time I call, and they've always gotten it done.

BW bows tend to be priced on the high side compared with other similar bows.  There are a few bowyers whose bows are considerably more expensive than BW's, however, with much longer wait times.  I've shot some of these extremely high-priced bows, and wonder how they can keep doing it.  I mean, if BW bows are 10-20% over the price of a comparable bow, some of these bows are as much as double the price of a comparable bow.  I think BW has earned its premium through a long record of dependability and resale value.

I realize your main question is whether BW has declined recently as opposed to what they may have been in the past.  I ordered a set of limbs from them for my PMA about a year ago, and several small orders within the past year, and haven't noticed anything different in quality or service from the past.

McDave, thanks for the infomrative response.

I think my concerns have been addressed and alleviated. Most of you have been very helpful.

While I no longer own a BW due to a personal grip mismatch, it is great to see the masses supporting these fine bows of the past and present.

BW strives not to have one dissatisfied customer, yet with humans as we are and the vast number of customers, it is inevitable that a wheel may develop a squeak from time to time.

Nothing still beats try before you buy. If she is a match, then you have struck gold.

If you don't care for BW bows, shoot something else.
These threads are silly.
Mine have given me good service for the last 30 years all over the world.

QuoteOriginally posted by BUFF:
If you don't care for BW bows, shoot something else.
These threads are silly.
Mine have given me good service for the last 30 years all over the world.

Whats silly is making a pointed response without reading the thread. I never said I don't like BW Bows, I did say I was considering buying one.

Have not waded through the above posts. My take on a widow is this. You get the same thing every time you pick up one. I'm talking about grip, smoothness of draw and performance. I shoot Rick Welch bows, Hoots bows, Roy hall Bows,, trad tech. I got more. If I was gonna shoot the ibo worlds this year, I'd grab my widow. I can shoot this bow better and more consistant than any bow I have. everyone likes to try different bows, but If I had it to do all over again, I'd have just a widow or two. Don

If someone is making negative quality or performance comments about Black Widow-They do not know what they are talking about.

dennyk is correct

X2 DennyK

I don't understand. If you have never shot/owned a BW how come you seam to believe the bad some have said, but you seem to be having trouble believing the good. Maybe I am wrong but are you trolling? If I am wrong then I apologies.

QuoteOriginally posted by The Whittler:
I don't understand. If you have never shot/owned a BW how come you seam to believe the bad some have said, but you seem to be having trouble believing the good. Maybe I am wrong but are you trolling? If I am wrong then I apologies.

Ok, this is the last time I am going to say this and then I give up. I have never said anything bad about Black Widow Bows nor did I say I don't believe the postives others have told me or posted here. I HAVE shot Black Widow Bows just not the model I was looking at purchasing. I was simply asking for opinions on the performance of recently built PSA and PSAX models as I had heard some conflicting information about the recently built Black Widow Bows. I figured posing the question here would get a lot of opinions from shooters that have first hand experience with the models in question. Those opinons coupled with my own future shooting experiences would better allow me to arrive at an informed decision on whether or not to purchase one.

You can test drive one yourself,then you wil know just how good they really are. All it really cost you is the price of shipping if you don't like it

doug77

I think BW bows are the best on the market.I have 5 different models. I also think you should test drive one  and not ask someone elses opinion of them. You may not like them ,which is ok by me, but it won't be because they are not top of the line, and the best co. out there.

I have had a PSA V Asbell, PSA X std grip, and PCH X low grip.  All were problem free.  I didn't care for some of the grips so don't have the bows.  The PSA V was just too much mass weight for my taste, but really accurate.  I like the PCH best and will probably get one with std grip at some point.  I do find them to be a little harder to quiet down than some bows, but in the middle of the range in general for a recurve.  The PCH was easiest to quiet down.  All were very dead in the hand shooting.  I don't find that so much with the PL compared to other hybrid bows I have and have shoot.  I like that I can know exactly how one will feel and shoot for me because they are so consistent in mfr. Some don't like that, but I think it is a big plus.  I have tried other bows I liked a lot and then gotten one only to find it just wasn't the same feel or grip at all. That is disappointing.  The fit and finish on the BW bows is top of the line.  The X bows are some of the finest looking bows I have seen with the best level of veneer matching I have seen on any bow.

Never heard about any issues with Black Widow bows but every time I get one in my hands & shoot it makes me wish I could get one.

What I like about BW and I haven't heard it in this thread is you can order limbs and don't have to send the riser in to get them matched up, or trade limbs with someone and you know they will fit the same model.

BW's current orders may suddenly be increasing due to this thread.

Personal preference is of course very (most)important and well demonstrated above. I think Trad Gang is the best place to get virtual input regarding any make of bow. I prefer to use the search function most of the time but even then I might still have a question.  

Over time, as you peruse these threads you will come to find folks who have similar tastes and provide information in a format you find useful. Those will be your go-to guys when it comes to weighing in on bows.

I know two fellows here that have steered me to wonderful bows, but not every time. I doubt anyone's tastes are identical and certainly my specs are matched only by 6th grade kids.

I like that new Widows are made using CNC. I love that they are relatively heavy. It doesn't bother me that a half-dozen or so folks have their hand in my Widow. There are other bowyers out there who use similar equipment but perform each of the steps.  

I've used the following a couple of times to indicate my favorite bow. If there was a fire at my house and I could rescue only one bow (after my wife is safe -- wait she has two hands --hmmm?) it would be my Schafer Silvertip.  I'd surely miss my Super Wildcat but I would take solace in the fact that I can get an exact duplicate of the Widows I leave behind, except maybe for that beautiful Idahocurt Myrtle!

As others have stated, the Test-Drive program is fantastic.  I know it costs a bit up front and you might not like the bow, so you're out $50 or so for shipping to and from. However, when you buy a new one and IF you don't like it, you'll lose a lot more, these days when you re-sell it.

The only way to dodge that bullet (uh, thread-pulling word -ha) is to buy a used one off Classified's here -- you can usually get every penny of your investment back, less shipping if you resell it....especially if it is a Lefty!

so which Widow are you considering buying?

Love 'em or hate 'em, Black Widow is an American success story. They sure sell a lot of bows and they do it with a mediocre catalog, website and forum It is the dedication of the owners alone that sells their bows all over the world.

Best of luck to you, whatever you choose to buy.

I recommend BW's whole-heartedly. I have had 4-5 PLX's; 2 Sx's; and now a PCH-X w/extra limbs and have loved everyone of them. They have performed in every way for my expectations. The high resale value tells you a lot about their quality, performance, and value. Try one you'll love em. The quality of the bows are exceeded ONLY by their customer service.

I have a 2010 PSAX and it is by far one of the best bow Ive ever owned and solid as a rock . I would not think twice about ordering another (if I had the cash )

I have never heard anything but praise of the Black widows, However I am a longbow shooter and found that their longbows did not suit me as well as a tomahawk. But their recurves are the best in my opinion

I LOVE! mine, my plx is tuff as nails(has to be with me as its owner) feels so good to shoot it should be a crime and is so pretty I want to frame it. If you took mine today and doubled the price I wouldn't hesitate to buy another. I own several fine bows and have shot many others but the widow's my sweet heart.

Nobody likes them. Just look at the prices, they pretty much have to give them away in order to sell enough to stay in business.    :laughing: