It's safe to say I love longbows but for some reason I really have it with 2 piece longbows.
You'd think the choice is easy but for me there are three good choices that serve me well.
First up, for me this one is the absolute simplest:
The sleeve takedown.
This is a Howard Hill Cheetah, I like this setup because it is a simple design and it does work. The two pieces fit together very snug, there is absolutely not movement at all when it's put together. The only negative for me is the grip is on the wide side. If you like a thin grip you may find this one a bit bulky. To be fair though I believe Craig at Howard Hill Archery uses two different sizes.
(http://i51.tinypic.com/r0bfoh.jpg)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/rr2ff6.jpg)
Next on the list is a Big Jim Buffalo longbow. It uses a lockit sockit system just like Black Widow uses. Again this is a simple one to put together. I did find this bow when put together did have a little wiggle, but when the bow is strung up to correct brace height there is absolutely no movement, and especially shooting the bow there isn't a hint of noise coming from the riser connection. This bow has more mass weight than the Hill but it's a very nice shooting bow, quiet and my shooting is very consistent with this bow. And the Cocobolo veneer is outstanding.
(http://i52.tinypic.com/flaubo.jpg)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/25twc1z.jpg)
Last but not least is my top choice, Toelke D Bow with a bow bolt. At first glance the bolt setup looks more complicated than the other two but once you put the bow together a couple of times, it really is just a slight step behind but it feels to me to be the most secure of the three. The bow of course is a Dan Toelke and that should say enough, absolutely gorgeous, very sooth draw, perfect. The juniper veneer is amazing, the tips are small and elegant. If I had have the skill of Dan this is the bow I would make for myself.
(http://i53.tinypic.com/b7kxe1.jpg)
(http://i51.tinypic.com/14t6dm8.jpg)
For reference, all three bows I bought second hand, the first two from fellow tradgang members and the Toelke is a used bow someone had traded back to Dan. Yes the Toelke is my favorite but I will not hesitate in any way to use either longbow in my pursuit of a Whitetail.
Love that leather grip on the Toelke I have never seen one like it.
Nice bows. My 2pc Big Jim Buffalo is very snug fitting. I really like it. I haven't had a Bolt type yet, but it looks like a good system. Love my 2pc LB's!
Beautiful bows! :thumbsup:
i've had all three types you show, they all work well and will get the job done but i still prefer the connexion hinge ...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/conn1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/conn2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/conn3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/conn4.jpg)
Rob
That is probably my next search, after I get out from a nasty car bill.
One thing that I have heard is that if you are going to use a bow bolt, it is recommended that you use some micarta or phenolic in the riser for strength. So if those two materials don't do it for you, you may want to choose some other hook up. Personally I like the looks of it. Might also be the reason you see it on ILF riser that Morrison makes, almost all of the wood ILF risers I have seen by Bob have a significant amount of phenolic, and you all know how gorgeous they look. Besides of course how well they work.
Nice bows. I really like the wood and horn overlays on the Buffalo Bow.
Very beautiful bows. And I love phenolic in a riser.
I would like to make a suggestion, you may want to change your signature from "Life's too short to shoot anything but a Zipper" to "Life's too short to shoot anything but a longbow".
3 great bows thanks for posting
Nice pictoral on the different TD systems out there.
Thank you.
Nice bows by the way. All fine examples.
I need more pictures of that Toelke. SWEET. I need to shoot one for sure well maybe not. I really want a takedown and really like that Dan uses the bow bolt.
I NEED A TOELKE! Anybody want to part with one!
Dan would be happy to sell you one awbowman. Great guy to chat with too.
Nice bows!
You might add some some more wax to the male and female parts of the BG TD.I wax mine fairly liberally.No slop or wiggle at all.
That brass steel sleeve is a good one as well.I use the smaller version of the sleeve TD for a smaller grip.I like to wax it up as well.
Those 2 systems,the bow bolt,jacknife by Great Northern and the one used by Thunderhorn are are my favorite 2 piece designs.
i prefer a slight locator handle shape.
the hill sleeve won't allow handle/grip shaping so it's pretty straight or nothing. though you *could* build up the palm side with leather or wood veneer and shape accordingly.
i think the sockit allows handle shaping, to some small degree.
the bow bolt and connexion definitely allow locator and dished handle grips.
sleeves have relatively minute tolerances of fit, else they wobble. this means the parts must be very clean for that fit to work both for mating and unmating the sections. i've had problems with hill sleeves getting both inserted and unstuck.
the bow bolt is a very positive system, but it also has nooks 'n' crannies that must be kept clean for the thing to work correctly.
the connexion hinge is the easiest and most positive lock up to use and can be joined and unjoined in the messiest of venues and hunt conditions. however, when the bow is unbraced, the limbs will want to unhinge itself. some folks eschew the bisected leather grip for a rubber roll-down that keeps the bow together when unstrung.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/M9.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/M6-1.jpg)
Rob the only thing I don't like about the Hinge has nothing to do with application but appearance. I'm not a fan of how the look on the bow. Compared to the bowbolt and lockit socket which maintain the lines of the bow and are discreet, the hinge stands out a bit. But that really is my only issue with it. Other than that it's as good of a system as anything else.
The Sleeve system is really of benefit to anyone who prefers a straight grip, found often on Hill bows.
Thanks for the nice review of the various systems. The only ones I have played with are the straight Hill style insert and the BowBolt. I have half a dozen or more bows with BowBolts and love the system. A fellow does need to protect and care for the bolt threads or there will be problems, but I am always very careful. Besides the fact that the BowBolt works very well, I like it for the reason that the grip can be shaped as desired and the bolt can be placed in somewhat varying positions in the riser depending on what look the bowyer is trying to achieve. It is probably not the absolute strongest connection, but if the riser is properly built and the Bow Bolt is properly installed, it will stand up to the highest poundage that I am capable of drawing. I think the locket socket connection is the next best looking and probably is somewhat stronger for those guys like Big Jim who can draw and shoot 80# bows and higher.
Thanks for all the input from everyone. It is very helpful and informative.
Allan
I build the lockit socket style and am more comfortable with it than any other. Its very similar in shape to the one of Jims. I believe this system is inherently the strongest and you could not get more simple. The neat thing is that when you have the bow together it looks , shoots and feels just like a onepiece.
God bless you all, Steve
Here's a couple of pictures of a Keith Chastain Wapiti Spike. I guess you would call it "Lockit Socket". I bought it from a fellow trad ganger a few years back. Take downs are certainly nice to travel with.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/wapitihunter/Bows%20and%20Arrows/WapitiTD1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/wapitihunter/Bows%20and%20Arrows/WapitiTD2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/wapitihunter/Bows%20and%20Arrows/WapitiTD3.jpg)
It is osage limbs with some purple heart in the handle. It also has has black carbon veneer on the back and belly. It draws about 82# at my draw length (31.5"). My all time favorite bow is a one piece Spike that I have been shooting for about 20 years now and this shoots every bit as well as the one piece.
Mike
The 4 hill style sleeves I have had all have locator grips.The Fox breed,wes wallace royal longbow and 2 Whippensticks.The grips were built up and shaped by the bowyers using bondo or something similar to bondo.Thier very comfortable.The small sized sleeve was used.All have performed very well for in every respect.they add some mass weight as well.Which some guys may prefer.
My three Big Jim two PC. T.D have great grips that are shapely and all have very tight tolerances.The Widow and Cari-bow I had also worked very well.
I like to use a soft type wax on the locket sockets and sleeve style TDs.
Great Northern does offer a locator grip with the jacknife.Its a great design!
Thunderhorn also offers a shapely locator grip with thier TD.
The bow bolts have worked well for me.I like an all phenolic riser on those for extra strength and longevity.
I did have one blow up that had an I-Beam construction.It was replaced by the bowyer.May have been a material failure?
The connexion hinge is good.Thier were some problems years ago when to weak of screws were used.Titanium screws in the right size are best with that system.They do flop around when unstrung is the main thing I dont like about that design.My Apex Predator Supelo worked very well and the hinge was recessed in the overlays on the back for a smooth feel.The liberty longbows and Centuars I have used worked great and were proffesionally fitted with tight tolerances.
Thiers many options that work well in 2 piece TDs.
Steelhead,
Spot on with the wax, tried it on the Big Jim and it worked great. I have been told that the Black Widows have the same issue.
I really like the Great Northern jack-knife system. Simple and reliable.
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/longbowjake/DSC_0036-1.jpg)
Good stuff L64. Thought about 2-piece but never really had any problems with my 1-piece Hills. Any wiggle would lose my confidence vote but that's just me.
To be fair only experienced the wiggle with the Big Jim. After applying the wax, no more wiggle. Also the wiggle only noticeable before the bow was strung up and ready to go.
The wax on the tennon (lower portion of the TD system) makes up for any tollerance and aids in dissasembly. Any wiggle without wax is minute and would never be noticed while strung. How much does the conexion or jacknife move when unstrung? Yet they don't move at all when strung.
The fiberglass sleave system will allow for many grip options but won't add a measureable amount of weight and is absolutely undetectable when strung and not likely to be detectable when un strung.
Yes many other TD systems will do the job, but none is as strong.
I wish that I could say that I designed the fiberglass socket system, but that would be far from the truth. I did however have the choice of all the available TD systems when I was deciding which to use for my bows. I had no dificulty in deciding to use the socket as I feel it is the best of several good systems.
thanks, bigjim
QuoteOriginally posted by vermonster13:
Dan would be happy to sell you one awbowman. Great guy to chat with too.
I have this thing about waiting! I have never been good at it. I have elk to kill this September!
Thanks LongStyk64, good tread. I have both a Big Jim Buffalo 2pc and a Toelke Whip 2pc. Love them both, great bows by a couple of great bowyers. Know Dan well, very awesome person and artist. Looking forward to meeting Big Jim in the future.