Trad Gang

I've wondered about this for a while.
How many guys and gals are shooting wood? You read a lot about aluminum and carbon.
I have adopted Byron Fergusons system of shooting and it seems to work for me. I know he shoots aluminum and the reasons why he does according to his book but hey, I'm not shooting asprin out of the air either,   :D
I love Cedar! It's hard to explain why fully but I'm sure a lot of you understand. It's the same thing that draws me to a long bow. Simplicity, wood, challange....romantic?
I don't look down at all on someone shooting aluminum or whatever, no way.
I just wonder what the percentages are of the main 3 materials as far as use.

I shoot wood for the tradition and nostalgia, but also have a few aluminum and carbonwoods laying around, but you have me curious as to reasons why Mr. Ferguson shoots aluminum?

Thanx

A good friend got me into making woodies, and since then, I never looked back.  I think I enjoy breaking them so that I can make more.

I started with aluminum a long time ago.
But, most of my friends used wood I didn't
understand why until I got some now I know why.
They just feel like a part of me, I like making
them and the way a good wood arrow shoots.

We are required to use wood in some tourneys to quality as a longbow. Anything else and we are classes with recurves

Zbone,  
He states he feels they are to inconsistent, from shaft to shaft. (wt.,spine)
He also says the old wood has all been used up and everything today is green then kiln dried and that can cause warpage and inconsistent spine due to spiraling in the grain of the shaft.(his words)
He used to shoot wood but I think he got tired of matching the shafts with all the shooting stuff he does and finds it easier to just have the consistency that aluminum provides(my words,thoughts)
There's a little more in the book but that's the idea.

Mostly POC for me

i wonder if its a sponsor thing? i know i would like free arrows.i started with wood tried aluminum and carbon but im sticking with the wood,there is just something about them.i think you" become your arrows" when you make them from raw wood shafts,and enjoy the whole process.

I won't shoot anything but wood. I have tried the rest, and will stay with the best.

There is a variance in spine with wood as well as weight. Aluminum is streight and true. Don't shoot Carbon so I won't comment. However If you specifiy weight and spine for wood, most venders will get you a five pound range and the good ones will get you a ten grain range in weight.

Joe

I love wood but found it tougher & tougher to find high quality shafting - only shoot them on my self bow now. Made the mistake of trying carbon with our recurves and got hooked by the consistency and ease of making up a quiver full of shooters. Definately lacking in aestheitcs...but a nice wrap and real turkey fletches help.

All i shoot is wood..POC and Fir.. I love making them. I know carbon and aluminum are more consistent but if im shooting an arrow its gonna be wood.

The more you know about making arrows, the less reason there is to use wood shafts. However, I love them and they are all I use.

I only shoot wood, I'm sure they break more often and aren't always as straight but they get the job done.

I only make and only use wood arrows.
They shoot well enough for me and I don't feel the need for the finer tolerances you get with carbon or aluminum.
Wood arrows make me happy.
No matter what kind of pants you put on an aluminum or carbon arrow, it's always going to be simply a carbon or aluminum arrow. No one is going to say, "wow, that carbon arrow is really beautiful!"
But a wood arrow... I can make them beautiful. I can have people look at them and say, "that's too beautiful to shoot."
For me, archery is about having fun and enjoying what I'm doing. I wouldn't enjoy using carbon or aluminum arrows.

Guy

Only wooden bows and wooden arrows for me.

Mostly wood, but I do play around w/ carbon.

Only wood here. I like making them, losing them,(can make some more), breaking them (can make some more). I use cedar, Douglas Fir, Sitka Spruce and Laminated Birch and prefer the heavier shafting. They do need more care, straightening, etc. but are quiet. I am just starting to experiment a bit with bamboo. I don't have any carbons and my aluminums are finding their way into other archers' homes.

30% wood 70% aluminum. About half my hunting and practice is with wood arrows but I use aluminum for 3D and major shoots so I dont blow through a dozen and a half arrows in a three day weekend. I to like spending the time making them.

when it comes to arrows, all that matters is consistent accuracy - and aesthetics should always take a back seat to accurate performance.    :saywhat:    

i love and will ALWAYS build and shoot woodies, but wood can not hold a candle to carbon or aluminium when it comes to consistent, durable performance in all manner of weather or hunt venues.  dat's really all there is to that.  and that's why byron switched to aluminium shafting - after all, it's his livelihood.

Can't say why, but the smell of cedar coming from a freshly broken shaft helps sooth the anguish of the loss.

POC for me for about 40 years,shot the beer can arrows for a while but came back to cedar after a little while

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheels2:
Can't say why, but the smell of cedar coming from a freshly broken shaft helps sooth the anguish of the loss.

Aroma therapy has been around for years, archers knew it long before the yuppies.

I shoot carbon and wood, prefer wood, nothing like an arrow that has your blood sweat and tears in the making.

I make my shafts and arrows. I like making anything I can that I want or need from things that live. When aluminum or carbon fiber  trees start growing on my 40 acres, I will start using those for arrows.

I'm old, but I as like this when I was young.

Jim

Something that grows, and usable for trad archery just "fits the big picture" more for me.

Half the reason I dont go selfbow is because I know I wont look back if I do and my lam bows will gather dust lol.

Arrows of wood are the most comfortable??? way for me to stay in touch with it all or something? There is the fact that few things in trad archery are as beautiful as a properly made wood arrow~!

Few now would believe it but I do recall reading OLD articles about the hoorah that hit the fan when fiberglass lams were added to bows and those that thought THAT wasn't "traditional".

Different times.

I stand behind anyone's choices, yet we all have our own ideas, desires etc on what will "deliver the goods" as we seek the feelings and results of such.

I've shot em all. Woodies are and will be my go to arrows for the woods and fields. I've been picking up 50s broadheads to take afield this fall and hopefully, many others, taking my trad hunting "back" a notch.

Putting them on anything else would be unthinkable.......to me.

Shoot what you believe in.

God Bless

NOT to "start something" but...a personal opinion here on "matching" arrows, spines, weights etc.

I dont bother. I dont own a spine tester nor need one. Off the wall thinking to a lot of you but..at the ranges I SHOOT, I cant tell dowhop difference out hunting or practicing TO hunt.

True, one 50 grains or more heavier has a noticable trajectory change past a certain point so I have them "close" in weight, choosing my preference of heavy arrows anyway.

Spine is quite often in the ball park but Ive got some that I KNOW arent close but different head weights make em closer.

I like arrows. I like making arrows. I like shooting arrows. All of em.  Come hunting season the "scale" I use is picking out a half dozen that "shoot best" for me, ones I have the greatest confidence in, in my hands, out of a particular bow.

I've taken more deer with arrows I havent a CLUE what they weigh than those I did know. Still worked.

One year I shot two deer with a particular hickory arrow that I knew from shooting it was "heavy" and all I knew. A friend took it and put it on his scale. 737 grains. 50lb LB.

Blissfully ignorant? lol

Perfectly matched arrows are a fine and challenging quest. Dont get me wrong there. All is good but FOR ME, the "gain" isnt enough to outweigh the hassle and cost.

Regardless if it's one I made, or a CHEAP "auction" woody all I ask of it is to fly well and if it does, that will work just dandy. Ive banana, shield, parabolic, custom (hand lol) cut feathers on em, Different diameters, spine weights. All's good. Somehow they will fly out of something I whang away with. A lot of the fun for me is just playing with the shaft and "making it shoot". Different strokes is all.

I guess that is another reason I dont use carbon or aluminum anymore. I dont feel I HAVE.......repeat I HAVE the "need" for precision shafts?  No offense.

I've went the route of matching shafts, weighing, spining, sorting.........eh.

Somehow, again FOR ME, it took something away from the simplicity of just shooting em, adjusting head weight if needed and going hunting.

Guess IM not that good of a shot but I get by in the woods. Deer keep dying by my shafts........to me the simplicity of such far outweighs all the calculations, the scales, testers etc.

Keep It Simple (stupid) Steve LOL.

Just works for me, fits my simplistic nature and I've the confidence that they all will shoot better than I can shoot em. Tough to explain, really.

Sorry to get OT a bit. Just food for thought.

God Bless,once again.

Yes, wood can't get to the tolerances of aluminum or carbon...but who amoung us, if we are really honest, can tell the difference in their performance? I match my wood shafts to tight tolerances. I even weigh them as I am putting sealer on them. The ones that are 5-8grs lighter I dip them again. So I can get spine and weight pretty close among a dozen. But wood is wood. It has grain, it was a growing thing. I guess that is why I love it as an arrow material. Just seems right and feels right=wood bow, wood arrows! I'm happy with their performance, quietness off the shelf, and yes they look GREAT! Like Rob said performance above all else...throw in looks and it's a complete package for me.
I got away from shooting a compound because it became too mechanical and I was detached from what I felt archery should be. Picked up a recurve but shot aluminum and carbon. Then I got some wood arrows and it seemed like I had "come home" completely. I'm staying for good!  I went through lots of different woods making arrows. When I found Surewood Shafts (douglas fir) I found what I feel are the best wood shafts out there. Oh, don't get me wrong. I have some 25 yr old ACME port orford cedar that are "the good stuff". If they still cut cedar like that today I'd be shooting that too. But with the consistancy of Surewoods and the durability are tops!   :thumbsup:

I shoot wood and aluminum. All of my wood arrows are matched within one pound of spine, which makes them more consistent than carbon. Vendors are still around that hand spine their arrows that way if you don't want the output of doing it yourself.

QuoteOriginally posted by snag:
... I got away from shooting a compound because it became too mechanical and I was detached from what I felt archery should be. Picked up a recurve but shot aluminum and carbon. Then I got some wood arrows and it seemed like I had "come home" completely. I'm staying for good!

now ya just need to trade in that recurve for a hill longbow and you'll be closer to "true trad" than ever before.   :D

QuoteOriginally posted by bigbadjon:
... All of my wood arrows are matched within one pound of spine, which makes them more consistent than carbon. ...

whoa there podner!  so far, there is no way that an organic shaft can be or maintain more consistency than carbon (or alum).  uh uh, ain't never gonna happen.  

i can build a perfectly matched set of woodies that are SPOT ON for both spine and mass weight, but after a dayze worth of shooting not only is the spine and weight off, so is their concentricity.

woodies have a mind set of their own and things happen with regards to environment and stress that just don't happen with carbon (or alum).    

not saying that woodies are bad, heck i've been building 'em and shooting 'em since '55, i love 'em, but facts is facts and carbons are just more consistent than woodies over both the long and short hauls.  and that's what matters most - arrows that remain consistent both during and after usage.

Meant to mention above that using wood I cut or salvage to make my shafts and using wood I cut for my bows lets me be pretty near independent of changes in the market for manufactured goods.

Sorry, I just want to be able to keep on shooting if the whole system collapses. Guess when it comes to archery, there is a bit of the survivalist in me.

Jim

As a very informal and unofficial observation survey I'd say, of so called "traditional" shooters currently: 70% shoot carbon, 10% aluminum and 15% some type of wood.

I own no carbon or aluminum, and tried a few carbons I borrowed for a day of Dart shooting and returned them without feeling the need to switch.  Shot aluminum for two years with a wheelie bow in the early 80's and sold those with the bow.  Wood just seems right.  I concede carbon or aluminum (at least new Al) will shoot better, but so does my scoped .223 Rem varmint rifle.  I just associate wood with archery.

We all have our preferences,I like wood but find it easier to shoot carbons,I'm just learning how to make my own arrows and carbon are simpler for me.

When I was manufacturing Superceder shafts, I did a couple of shows with a booth next to Byron. I traded him a dozen shafts for his book, but he told me he couldn't shoot them in public because Easton is his sponsor, and they understandably insist he only shoot their shafts. I got the impression he would shoot wood if he could.

Rob, if your wood arrows aren't still the same spine and weight after a day of shooting, you got bad shafts! I have arrows that I've shot off and on for decades that haven't changed a bit.

Properly made and matched wood shafts will shoot as well and as consistently as anything else out there. Fletching is the great equalizer. They don't have to be perfect to be plenty accurate.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by snag:
... I got away from shooting a compound because it became too mechanical and I was detached from what I felt archery should be. Picked up a recurve but shot aluminum and carbon. Then I got some wood arrows and it seemed like I had "come home" completely. I'm staying for good!

now ya just need to trade in that recurve for a hill longbow and you'll be closer to "true trad" than ever before.    :D  [/b]

Check out the Bowyers Bench, Snag, David, is building some sweet Selfbows! Cant'get much more Real Bow!

Great job, Snag  :thumbsup:

I shoot only wood shafts.It just feels like it goes with the whole traditional mindset.Carbon,fiberglass and aluminum may be more consistant in their spine and weight,but Fred Bear said,and I for one believe it, that no one is so consistant in their shooting that it would make much difference out to say 20 yards.  :readit:

Rob, I was speaking from when I start out my arrows are better matched than a carbon. No arrow material maintains straightness better than carbon. Both aluminium and wood becamoe less straight as they are shot and in my opinion that is the only desireable trait of carbon. As far as shooting a day effecting the spine and weight of the wood arrow that is just not true. If your arrow is sealed with a truly waterproof finish and is maintained in straightness it will fly as true as the day it was made until you break it.

I'm a green sprout to trad archery (but a burled  trunk to everything else) and I'm here for the same reasons Rob stated.

I'm like a kid in a candy store, and next year I'm going to try wood, but this year, I need to walk before I run. So carbon it is. But I am building my own. Plain jane first, then I'll start dancing.

Same with a long bow. I'm dying to shoot one. But gotta focus. September is almost on us!

Thanks Frank, sometimes you get lucky! haha

My woodies are the most quiet but I shoot mostly carbons and aluminum. they are more consistent to me......Randy

Making wood arrows is my favorite thing about shooting a longbow. Except for shooting them thru something that bleeds. It is a labor of love. Those of you who want to make up a set of arrows in a couple hours aren't going to use wood. The time it takes is savored and enjoyed. I probably have about 20 dozen on hand at any one time. Most of those are mine, but some are for my boys, nephews, and friends. If I get below 4 or 5 dozen for any one bow I'm shooting, I start to get anxious and have to start another dozen.

Shoot all three....wood is doug fir surewood product - good stuff....


><>

Glenn

I shoot doug fir and laminated birch.  Started with aluminum, but switched about 10 or 12 years ago and wouldn't go back.

Thanks for all the reply's and thoughts, great stuff.

QuoteOriginally posted by PaddyMac:

I'm like a kid in a candy store, and next year I'm going to try wood, but this year, I need to walk before I run. So carbon it is. But I am building my own. Plain jane first, then I'll start dancing.

No offense, Paddy, but I get a kick out of guys who want to "graduate" to wood.  I use wood - as I have since I could spare a hand from holding up the diaper long enough to shoot - because I don't have the brains or tools for aluminum or carbon.  I look at a "Trad Teck" catalog and my eyes glaze over like a dead bass.  Way too complicated.  Folks shot wood arrows before they figured out things like the wheel and pit toilets.  

Carbon is out there with twittering and ATM machines on my event horizon and I may not live long enough to arrive at that point.

QuoteOriginally posted by PaddyMac:
... I'm like a kid in a candy store, and next year I'm going to try wood, but this year, I need to walk before I run. So carbon it is. But I am building my own. Plain jane first, then I'll start dancing.  ...

that is a good and correct approach - you want to use the most consistent arrow possible, so that you can concentrate on form and shooting and not hafta be concerned if it was you or your arrow that missed the mark.

woodies are great, i love 'em, but they're just not as reliably consistent as carbons (or alums).

Wood is good!!

From 1985 to somwhere in 2001, I made arrows commericaly for an archery shop, ( Big one )    thousands of arrows annualy.( not to mention repairs)    I could have any thing I wanted, wood's, carbons and  aluminum . For shooting into frozen excelsior bales in the winter I ALWSYS have 1/2 doz aluminum arrows for each bow,   thats all I use them for .   Wood is far superior  for hunting and practice and FUN than anything.  If I was a Trophy shooter   and paper and 3D was my life, Id shoot carbons for sure!   3 d TARGETS TO ME ARE FOR PRACTICE AND FUN SHOOTS like ETAR , Sawmill etc.  I go to those shots and see how I do I could care less how I do compared to others.
   Consistant ? sure to some  degree carbons and aluminums are more consistant .   While working at that store there, I several times weighed out aluminum shafts  Game getters , Game getter IIs , XX75s, XX78s, etc.  Each time weighed at least 50  from bundles and found variations up to 30 grains . I can do the same with woods all day .
  I also shoot fireams  . I used to shoot competition in that area, & I reload !   I have weighed bullets from the BEST manufacturers and found weight variations of over 8 grains in bullets that are 168 grain match bullets   and they still went into the same hole. The percentage of variation for 8 grains on a 168 grain bullet,  is far greater than the percantage of 10 to 20 grains of weight on a 500 /600 grain arrow .  That makes absolutely no difference in the world for accurate shhoting, the MINOR differences you get in weight variations with carbons and aluminums.  
  Straight ?   I straightened  thousands of  aluminum bent arrows for customers  NONE ever came out realy straight again and they shot fine . Would I hunt with them after being straightened?   NO!   NOT ME.  But  I would never hesitate to shoot them for any thing else and hardly know the difference between shots .
Do I condemn  any one who shoots aluminum or carbons?    HELL NO   But I see no reason to do it!  No real benefit  except in the mind.  
OH and nothng is as quiet as a wood arrow !!!

QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:

woodies are great, i love 'em, but they're just not as reliably consistent as carbons (or alums).

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2644/3833496778_1bcd360268.jpg)

 :thumbsup:      :archer:

I shoot cedar from my vintage Bear's.  It just doesn't seem right to shoot anything else from them.  I do shoot carbons from my widow though.

clean kill with a carbon OK...
clean kill with aluminum OK....
Clean kill with a woodie...........PRICELESS!!!!!
ALL WOOD ALL THE TIME.....

QuoteOriginally posted by TWarrows:
clean kill with a carbon OK...
clean kill with aluminum OK....
Clean kill with a woodie...........PRICELESS!!!!!
ALL WOOD ALL THE TIME.....

:thumbsup:    If we as bowhunters stalk our prey within bow range and use good wood arrows we are going to get the job done. Lots of hunters have proven this over decades. Now for target archery, yes, aluminum and carbon are the choice of all top competitors. Wood is fun to make arrows out of and it is plenty good enough for making very functional arrows for hunting. If I can group Surewood shaft arrows in a 4" circle at 20yds while stumpshooting I'm "hunting ready".

I started out with aluminum over 20 years ago, and made an impressive pile of bent shafts at the time.  Then switched to wood, they were a lot more trouble to make but worth it.  I dabbled in carbon fairly recently, they sure are more consistent, and quicker and easier to make, but they don't feel "alive" to me when shot from a longbow.  For me wood just shoots better, and is way more satisfying to make and shoot.  My everyday practice arrows are cedar and spruce, my hunting arrow box still has some chundoo arrows that are my first choice for hunting, and heavy cedars I made up after the supply of chundoo dried up.  I almost always have a batch of wood arrows in some stage of production, and my main hobby besides shooting longbows is making wood arrows.  It keeps me fired up in the evenings until I can't wait to get out and shoot some more.

good gawd awmighty, this has surely turned into a woodie love fest ... as expected.  

attention newbies - stick with alums or carbons when starting on your trad journey.  if it leads you to woodies - as you gain form, consistency, and confidence - that's just fine and a very natural progression.

46 years ago I bought a used bow instead of new because the $20 difference could be used for Micro flite arrows rather than wood. The shop owner explained the arrow was the most important part of archery equipment I would be buying, I believed him then and still do. I shoot mostly carbons for consistency but use some wood. My aluminums are all in boxes. Never killed anything with my bow but lots of animals have fallen to my arrows. Still love the smell of cedar.

I started out with aluminums when I shot compounds and loved them. I switched to woodies when I went traditional because it seemed like the obvious thing to do and because I shoot a heavy bow and the mass you get from a woody helps absorb the boom. I can say the wood arrows are not as consistent but neither is my shooting with a longbow   :knothead:

but when I take my first bow kill with a wood bow and a home made wood arrow it will all be worth it.

"attention newbies - stick with alums or carbons when starting on your trad journey. if it leads you to woodies - as you gain form, consistency, and confidence - that's just fine and a very natural progression."

Thanks for the advice, Rob. Although woodies are less complicated. Carbon and aluminum have a million different sizes and every company is different. Also, most manufacturers and the people who sell them don't have a clue about using them with trad gear. So while carbons/aluminum are more consistent for a newbie, like myself, to learn with, they are overwhelmingly difficult to figure out which to buy.

With My style of shooting I seem to do way better with woodies then the other types of shafts.

Quoteattention newbies - stick with alums or carbons when starting on your trad journey.  if it leads you to woodies - as you gain form, consistency, and confidence - that's just fine and a very natural progression.

I understand why you would make such a recommendation but I would modify it slightly by saying that you should start with carbon, or aluminum, or a set of well made, well matched, wooden arrows that are +/- 10 grains, +/- 2 pounds of spine, from a reputable arrow maker like Joe Lorenz, or Paul J. (elite arrows), etc. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a newbie starting out with a quality set of wood arrows.

My experience has shown me the cedars I have shot are easier to tune while not as consistent as a group compared to aluminum and carbon.  I love how much more quiet the wood arrows fly off my bows!  Wood for me.

I see Ron's point, and it is a valid one.  I guess he's thinking that starting out with wood is like buying a car with ignition points and Zerk lubrication fittings.  If you work on them yourselves it is harder, and you need to own a timing light and grease gun - but who can repair electronic ignition anyway?  It is a step harder and in the "wrong direction" for newbies than for those of use who grew up with nothing else and don't know no better.  

But why learn something you'll cast aside?  If you whomp up a dozen cheap, unadorned woodies and lose one over the bales you're embarassed.  If you put a $10 carbon in the grass you're still out at midnight on your knees with a flashlight, cussin.

If I loose a wood arrow it just means I get to make another one! Yeppie!  Just never felt that way with non-wood arrows.

That reminds me.  I have to whip up a dozen fir shafts.  Sittin' on the deck with a beer tapering shafts and watchin' the chickens forage.  Good times.

QuoteOriginally posted by voltradhunter:
 

Quoteattention newbies - stick with alums or carbons when starting on your trad journey.  if it leads you to woodies - as you gain form, consistency, and confidence - that's just fine and a very natural progression.

I understand why you would make such a recommendation but I would modify it slightly by saying that you should start with carbon, or aluminum, or a set of well made, well matched, wooden arrows that are +/- 10 grains, +/- 2 pounds of spine, from a reputable arrow maker like Joe Lorenz, or Paul J. (elite arrows), etc. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a newbie starting out with a quality set of wood arrows. [/b]

there is everything wrong about a newbie starting off with a shaft material that is far too easy to go out of round - that will be far more difficult to happen with varbon or carbon.  as a newbie, i'd wanna know that it was my bad form that caused the arrow to miss and not because the arrow was the culprit.

QuoteOriginally posted by bsoper:
"attention newbies - stick with alums or carbons when starting on your trad journey. if it leads you to woodies - as you gain form, consistency, and confidence - that's just fine and a very natural progression."

Thanks for the advice, Rob. Although woodies are less complicated. Carbon and aluminum have a million different sizes and every company is different. Also, most manufacturers and the people who sell them don't have a clue about using them with trad gear. So while carbons/aluminum are more consistent for a newbie, like myself, to learn with, they are overwhelmingly difficult to figure out which to buy.

then use alums instead of carbons - they're relatively easy to size out.

I'm with Rob on this one. I feel it is crucial in that first year to use the most consistent equipment possible. Simply because a real bad day in the woods or at the range can set your progress back weeks. Nothing worse than shooting poorly and not being able to pinpoint why. You can pick up some REAL bad habits.

I started out with carbons and shot the same 6 for months. I abused the hell out of them. I then moved to aluminums for the weight and price. I moved back to carbons because I was bending too many aluminums.

I did the "unthinkable" last year and switched to woods, buying a custom made and matched set from Fletcher. Then I started building my own. Even my Dad (Ripforce) thought I was nuts at first. I took a lot of jeers and endured a lot of laughter behind my back. Still do. I'm one of two guys that shoots them exclusively at my local range. I was the ONLY guy in league that shot them last year and came in 3rd overall.

I am absolutely addicted to making them. It is my passion. And they have the natural weight, forgiveness, and quietness that no other shaft on the market has. I also find them to be easier to work with and understand. More durable than folks give them credit for too. I had the notion that they were extremely fragile before buying a set. I've only broke two.

Nothing like a D-style longbow and a set of woodies in the quiver. Can't beat it in my book.

I love my wood arrows especialy out of my Longbow , the two just go together .

For the guys that have trouble sizing carbons and aluminums, if you're not using Stu Miller's Dynamic Spine Calculator you are making things harder for yourselves than necessary.

QuoteOriginally posted by bigbadjon:
For the guys that have trouble sizing carbons and aluminums, if you're not using Stu Miller's Dynamic Spine Calculator you are making things harder for yourselves than necessary.

That is even more complicated for a newbie.

For safety reasons, I mostly shoot aluminum.  They may bend more easily, but I've heard they're less prone to shattering into your bow hand like carbon and wood if you don't check your arrows for stress cracks and nicks:

 (http://www.huntersfriend.com/arrow-in-hand2.jpg)

All you do is plug in your bow stats and it generates a good starting point for your required spine. Then you can plug in arrow and component combinations til you see one that works for you. Nothing to it I assure you.

Ed Q if you are not checking your arrows for defects you have no one to blame for injury but yourself. An injury like that pictured probably was not caused by a cracked arrow either.

Even so, I really enjoy shooting bamboo and wood just for the sheer "traditional" aspect of it all.  Here are some woods I made:

 (https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/842646/fullsize/100_1704.jpg)

 (https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/852251/fullsize/000_0008.jpg)

QuoteOriginally posted by bigbadjon:
Ed Q if you are not checking your arrows for defects you have no one to blame for injury but yourself.

Words of wisdom BigbadJohn!  I check mine, but you never know.  Just don't want an injury like that to happen to me, so I shoot mostly aluminum.  By the way, if you do a google search for "carbon arrow injuries," you'd be surprised at what you find, besides the gory pics and all.  I've since stayed away from carbon, and I definitely check my woods and bamboo the few times I shoot them.

There's no reason wood arrows can't be made to the same spine and weight tolerances as carbon or aluminum. Any good, quality arrow craftsman should be able to match them for you.

I've seen lots of pictures like that one and I would wager that almost all of them are related to overdraws. But if you never shoot carbon arrows you certainly will never get a carbon through the hand... unless shot by a fellow archer.

QuoteOriginally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
There's no reason wood arrows can't be made to the same spine and weight tolerances as carbon or aluminum. Any good, quality arrow craftsman should be able to match them for you.

absolutely totally correct.  those are the pre-production woodie issues - spine and mass weight - and i've built sets of completed woods to with a few percent of both values.  not a big deal to achieve.

the essential post production problem is in keeping a woodie straight.  this is where the rubber meets the road and where woods can too easily fail.  plus, will the shaft be affected by weather/environment?  this is why byron ferguson went from wood to alum.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by voltradhunter:
 

Quoteattention newbies - stick with alums or carbons when starting on your trad journey.  if it leads you to woodies - as you gain form, consistency, and confidence - that's just fine and a very natural progression.

I understand why you would make such a recommendation but I would modify it slightly by saying that you should start with carbon, or aluminum, or a set of well made, well matched, wooden arrows that are +/- 10 grains, +/- 2 pounds of spine, from a reputable arrow maker like Joe Lorenz, or Paul J. (elite arrows), etc. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a newbie starting out with a quality set of wood arrows. [/b]

there is everything wrong about a newbie starting off with a shaft material that is far too easy to go out of round - that will be far more difficult to happen with varbon or carbon.  as a newbie, i'd wanna know that it was my bad form that caused the arrow to miss and not because the arrow was the culprit. [/b]

I'm not the sharpest broadhead in the quiver but one of the first skills I taught myself when I started shooting wooden arrows was how to roll one on the kitchen counter and watch for it to wobble. ;-)

QuoteOriginally posted by voltradhunter:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by voltradhunter:
   

quote:

---

attention newbies - stick with alums or carbons when starting on your trad journey.  if it leads you to woodies - as you gain form, consistency, and confidence - that's just fine and a very natural progression.

I understand why you would make such a recommendation but I would modify it slightly by saying that you should start with carbon, or aluminum, or a set of well made, well matched, wooden arrows that are +/- 10 grains, +/- 2 pounds of spine, from a reputable arrow maker like Joe Lorenz, or Paul J. (elite arrows), etc. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a newbie starting out with a quality set of wood arrows. [/b]

there is everything wrong about a newbie starting off with a shaft material that is far too easy to go out of round - that will be far more difficult to happen with varbon or carbon.  as a newbie, i'd wanna know that it was my bad form that caused the arrow to miss and not because the arrow was the culprit. [/b]

I'm not the sharpest broadhead in the quiver but one of the first skills I taught myself when I started shooting wooden arrows was how to roll one on the kitchen counter and watch for it to wobble. ;-) [/b]

---

where's yer kitchen counter when yer out hunting?

look, this is simple stuff, woodies just can't take the punishment that the nasty shaft material arrows can.  

i can build and shoot woods with some darned good accuracy at hunting distances, which is all i can ask for.  i know what i'm doing.  newbies, for the very most part, don't have time to think about arrow straightness nor will they hit the butt every time.  newbies and woodies are not a smart combination.