Trad Gang

Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Terry Green on April 25, 2011, 11:28:00 AM

Title: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Terry Green on April 25, 2011, 11:28:00 AM
We are hashing out this 'rough' idea at the moment....

A simi-private classifieds section.

That being...the classifieds can be viewed by ALL, but 'new topics' and 'replies' only made by pre-approved members.

How we get to 'pre approved' is in the works...but that way all that can post will have the security of knowing who they are dealing with.  BUT, someone not approved can email you, since they can see the ads, and YOU can decide if you want to make the trade with that individual or not.

The will stop what happened last week....and what has happened before, and other instances like....where someone registers and runs to the classifieds and goes on a listing rampage and folks get scammed by someone that's not really interested in 'Trad Gang'....or trad bowhunting.

I am also thinking about having a 'Grab Bag' forum.  Due to the economy, this might help folks finance equipment or hunts they need.  This grab bag forum would be for listing 'yard sale' type items.  Items NOT related to Trad Bowhunting.

Of course, there will be no other 'weapon' listed, guns, crossbows, compound bows, etc, or anything offensive......but  more household items.....cloths, paintings, furniture, microwave, toaster oven etc....  This could be very beneficial, helpful and interesting to say the least.  No telling what type of stuff might get listed.

We are trying to figure out the best way to pre approve folks....as there are a LOT of folks that we know don't need approval really....they have been great members for a long time.

Not sure if we should charge a fee to be a member of this private forum or not.....having to register and pay will weed out a LOT of these seat of the pants crooks that fly by night.....AND help offset the time it will take and the software or code writing needed to provide a platform for such easy access to give access in a much easier way than we have now


You thoughts......
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Izzy on April 25, 2011, 11:32:00 AM
Brilliant! This should work well. The Grab Bag is another selfless deed.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Ben Maher on April 25, 2011, 11:34:00 AM
Sounds all good Terry ... the "Grab Bag " idea particularly. Pre approval shouldn't be a problem to legitimate buyers and sellers and will continue to weed out the scammers.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Spurs on April 25, 2011, 11:35:00 AM
I have no problem paying like a yearly membership fee or a listing fee etc.  I have had great transactions here, and have had real piece of mind at buying and selling.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: magnus on April 25, 2011, 11:37:00 AM
Great idea's. I like both. Maybe being a contributer of some sort to post in the classifieds. Thank you guys for keeping us safe and keeping it fair.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: KentuckyTJ on April 25, 2011, 11:37:00 AM
I like both ideas and will gladly pay for inclusion into the classified sections.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Terry Green on April 25, 2011, 11:38:00 AM
Spur....I was thinking a 'one time' fee....not an annual one.  That would take more work to keep up with...and I think the one time fee would finance it.

I also think it would be worth a fee to the individual for the security and the grab bag forum alone!!!
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: robtattoo on April 25, 2011, 11:38:00 AM
Brilliant idea!
I for one would be happy to pay for access to the classifieds.

I like the idea of a yard-sale type of thing too. Like you say, I'd be interested just to see the types of thing listed!
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Izzy on April 25, 2011, 11:42:00 AM
Maybe I can list my ma-inlaw on the grab bag forum.     :pray:
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Harmless on April 25, 2011, 11:44:00 AM
I would have no problem registering and paying a fee! Great idea
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: stik&string on April 25, 2011, 11:44:00 AM
It all sounds great Terry, I am already a contributor and wouldn't hesitate to pay a fee to get into the classifieds. Heck for all this site provides it's the least I can do.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Buckwheaties on April 25, 2011, 11:46:00 AM
Sounds like you've got some good ideas in the works Terry, We'll back you to help keep things "on the straight" on here..
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Mojostick on April 25, 2011, 11:46:00 AM
Just a thought to consider...

Since anonymity is often the biggest "problem" with the internet, both with scams and obnoxious postings on some other hunting websites, perhaps if you had to register for the classifieds and pay a small annual fee, that'd help a lot, but then for those registered on the classifieds, certain personal info like full name, phone number, full address, etc, would be shown to all who are registered.

Not that someone couldn't fake that info, but any scammers would be found out quickly.

Now, some may not want to put up their address or phone number for identity theft concerns, but that basic stuff can typically be easily found by criminals anyhow. It isn't like we'd have to give SS numbers.

Just a thought to make it that much clearer who's behind the screen name.

I guess another thought could be, eliminate screen names completely and everyone goes by their real name. Many of us here personally know other members. It's another check point in the system.

Again, just thinking out loud.

Bob
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Ricker on April 25, 2011, 11:50:00 AM
Maybe a person should be a "Contributor" to list items for sale.  Possibly a minimum amount of posts along with a minimum length of time registered here.

PPal is a good idea too as they verify addresses to persons and banking institution as well, adding an amount of validity to someone making a transaction of monetary value.  

Maybe some food for thought for you Terry, I'm sure you've likely thought of these ideas but it's my "two cents"

Best Regards,
Rick
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: nc recurveman on April 25, 2011, 11:50:00 AM
Thanks Mr. Terry and the other who eal with all the heaaches
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Three Finger on April 25, 2011, 11:50:00 AM
Thanks Terry. Great idea and I would gladly pay to get into the classified sections.
Thanks
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Ricker on April 25, 2011, 11:53:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Izzy:
Maybe I can list my ma-inlaw on the grab bag forum.      :readit:      :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: magnus on April 25, 2011, 11:56:00 AM
I'd gladly pay a fee for the security as well. Maybe make references a prerequisit to post an add. Minimum of 3 from good standing members.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Huntschool on April 25, 2011, 11:57:00 AM
Sounds like a good deal to me....
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: spike buck on April 25, 2011, 12:00:00 PM
Good idea Terry. All my dealings here have been top notch and this sounds like a great way to keep it that way. Thanks, James
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: SveinD on April 25, 2011, 12:00:00 PM
I think those are great ideas! Good thinking!
This will probably make it a bit easier for people over the pond to purchase bows from the US as well!  :)
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: salemons on April 25, 2011, 12:02:00 PM
I prefer the idea that anyone should be able to contact a seller even if only by email. I have bought items but don't usually sell my stuff. Not sure if I like the idea of charging for classified access. Maybe if wanting to sell? The grab bag idea sounds good and that would help justify a selling charge.
As far as the pre-approved goes. I spend a lot of time here, just don't say a lot. Hope lurking will count toward the pre-approval. Still don't even have my 100 yet.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: George Vernon on April 25, 2011, 12:03:00 PM
Terry,
Buying stuff sight unseen from folks you do not personally know can be risky, especially when someone joins a group like TG with the intent to deceive.  I appreciate the effort you and Rob put into ideas and procedures designed to protect the general membership.  In addition to a fee, one time or annual, how about asking the folks who want to be pre-approved to provide some form of personal ID, like a drivers license number.  Doesn't guarantee success, but adds one more hurdle for the less than honest to overcome.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: JL on April 25, 2011, 12:05:00 PM
Y'all are cookin with gas now! I like it...a lot.

I think revealing personal info on any website is a recipe for unwanted attention (sales calls, spam email, ect...). I think if y'all require/keep personal info on a individual, that's fine, you have info to fall back on if needed but putting it out there for every yahoo to see could create issues...

A Paypal option also is a good idea (kinda a second form of protection and/or source of info).

I'm in....
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Mudd on April 25, 2011, 12:08:00 PM
I'm not apposed to going by my real name...lol

Just not sure how many folks would recognize me...lol

or how long it would take me to re-learn how to respond to someone calling me Roy.

I'm game whatever is decided.

God bless,Mudd
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Converml on April 25, 2011, 12:09:00 PM
I think the paying and the minimum time as a member or having the references thing would weed out many scammers who wouldn't want to wait. Of course I wouldn't make the cut (but I'm a patient person any way so no big deal).Getting 100 posts wasn't hard with all the questions I had, i didn't know what ttt or the other abbreviations were anyway. In the short time I've been here Ive gotten to know quite a few people and avoid the other sites because they were not my type, I like it here and any sacrifice I might have to make to preserve it is worth it. So do what must be done. Thanks Merle
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: maxwell on April 25, 2011, 12:15:00 PM
Ditto- thanks for all you do.  Which ever  way you choose is OK by me.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: YORNOC on April 25, 2011, 12:16:00 PM
I'M IN. WHATEVER YOU GUYS COME UP WITH IS A- OKAY.
Mudd, we'll just call you Muddy Roy.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: SportHunter on April 25, 2011, 12:20:00 PM
The idea of paying for the ability to list items in the classified section seems sound and may limit most of the scammers. You may want to put a reasonable limit to the number of listings a member can have active at one time as well.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: mwosborn on April 25, 2011, 12:30:00 PM
I have only a few transactions over a couple of years and they turned out fine.  Have no problem with a fee and giving up some personal info such as phone # & address to keep it that way.  I'm in.

Mitch
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: MTArrowLauncher on April 25, 2011, 12:31:00 PM
Sounds like good ideas to....keep up the good work
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Winterhawk1960 on April 25, 2011, 12:37:00 PM
Terry,

Whatever you and Rob come up with will be fine with me. I really appreciate all that goes on behind the scenes to keep this site everything that it has become. I have had numerous dealings with to many different people to even remember them all. It has also gave me the opportunity to spend some time on various 3D courses around the country with like minded people. THANK-YOU for everything that ya'll do !!!!!!!

Winterhawk1960
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: weezy on April 25, 2011, 12:38:00 PM
Terry;
You guys do an outstanding job managing this site. Whatever rules you come up with I'm sure will be fair and I'll gladly follow them. Thanks for all your hard work.
Bob
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: on April 25, 2011, 12:38:00 PM
hope you guys figure something out,i liked the security of the 100 post deal, although i havent sold anything yet, but have bought, im sure youll come up with some thing, and it will be appreciated.  thanks
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Over&Under on April 25, 2011, 12:43:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by KentuckyTJ:
I like both ideas and will gladly pay for inclusion into the classified sections.
Agreed...

Pre-approval is a wonderful idea...Those serious about it will take the needed steps. Really gives both buyer/seller/trader/tradee more piece of mind.

Still thinking about the "grab bag" idea...not sure how I feel about it just yet...I mean I agree with it, but I think it could easily get people sidetracked....I am guessing it would be under the same "pre-approval" setting?
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: buckeye_hunter on April 25, 2011, 12:46:00 PM
I liked the idea posted earlier...

You have to be a contributor (for the current year)to be able to post in the classifieds.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: straitera on April 25, 2011, 12:47:00 PM
Not sure how I could help but if you need me just ask. I'm on a little while most everyday. Will work for hunts. Kiddin.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: wislnwings on April 25, 2011, 01:02:00 PM
I have bought and sold in the classified here and have always felt safe because of how this site is run.  I can't say the same for other sites.  I would not be opposed to a yearly fee and a minimum post requirement for approval.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: KyStickbow on April 25, 2011, 01:06:00 PM
I wouldn't mind to pay a fee to enter the classifieds. I can't sell yet anyway, but wouldn't have a problem at all when that time comes.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: GRINCH on April 25, 2011, 01:19:00 PM
I've bought and sold alot of bows,I'm up for what ever you decide.Larry.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Easykeeper on April 25, 2011, 01:22:00 PM
I wouldn't mind a fee for posting in the classifieds.  More than a one time fee or minimal annual fee might be a turn off for a lot of honest but casual, infrequent, or impulse buyers/sellers though.  Just because someone isn't part of the long-time posting fraternity doesn't mean they aren't straight up people.  

I am not interested in posting more detailed information on my public profile than I am now.  I communicate all particulars to the individuals I deal with in private, but don't want to advertise my full name, address, phone number, ect. on a public forum.  Might as well leave the door open, lock up the dogs, and pack up all the good stuff for the burgler...
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: kbetts on April 25, 2011, 01:27:00 PM
I'm all for becoming a contributor.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: frassettor on April 25, 2011, 01:28:00 PM
Great idea Terry  :readit:    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Rick Butler on April 25, 2011, 01:31:00 PM
I'm in and I'd gladly pay a fee to use it.  Great idea!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Pepper on April 25, 2011, 01:34:00 PM
Maybe a person should be a "Contributor" to list items for sale. Possibly a minimum amount of posts along with a minimum length of time registered here.

I'm all for that.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: MarkE2006 on April 25, 2011, 01:49:00 PM
There will be no easy solution.

Those that lie cheap and steal don't follow the rules.  Time requirements will leave exclude some honest new members.  Fees can be paid by the dishonest also to make that one time cheat.  If it can happen, it may happen.

I will follow whatever is decided because that is who I am.  Terry you and this forum are appreciated.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: bsoper on April 25, 2011, 02:23:00 PM
A fee to post on the classifieds is totally reasonable. However, I don't think a one-size-fits-all fee would work. If someone is a heavy seller, they should pay a higher fee and if someone is an infrequent seller, it should be less. Don't want to discourage those folks.

Thanks for all your work at making this a fun and safe community for us!
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Johnny UMAA on April 25, 2011, 02:28:00 PM
I would be willing to pay what I needed to be included as I enjoy this site immensely.

I love to peruse the classifieds everyday...not that I can buy every bow that I drool over...but it sure is fun "wishing" and looking at the craftsmanship!

Hap Farber
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Pierre Lucas on April 25, 2011, 03:18:00 PM
Count me in...no brainer

God Bless,    Pierre
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Froggy on April 25, 2011, 03:22:00 PM
X2 on Pierre's post !!

Froggy
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: beachbowhunter on April 25, 2011, 03:33:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Harmless:
I would have no problem registering and paying a fee! Great idea
Same here...
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: reddogge on April 25, 2011, 03:48:00 PM
I would not object to a nominal fee for joining the classifieds but would prefer to have people who are members have certain basic information on file. ie: name, address, phone number. This information would keep people honest and help keep out deadbeats and scammers. Without some contact information scammers would gladly pony up a fee to join this resource we have here.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: JRY309 on April 25, 2011, 03:51:00 PM
Sounds like a great idea!
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: coaster500 on April 25, 2011, 03:54:00 PM
Just let us know what you need Terry and I'm in  :)

Thank you
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: dino on April 25, 2011, 04:00:00 PM
I'm all in for a joining fee, think it is a great idea plus the new forum sounds interesting too. dino
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: harvestmoon on April 25, 2011, 04:09:00 PM
Paying a fee will not stop the scammer if they have easy access to the classifieds.  I would be interested to know if anyone has been scammed buying a bow here since the 100 post rule went into effect.
If not, I think it should apply to all the classifieds.
I like the idea of a one time or even annual fee to help manage this site.  Not sure I like the distraction of a "grab bag" type classified.  I guess I could just avoid it.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: vtmtnman on April 25, 2011, 04:21:00 PM
I think the grab bag is a great idea.

As for a fee,I'd rather pay a one time fee then an annual one if I really had to.

Also,100 posts should apply to all sections of the classys,not just bows.Basically 100% useage of them.

We all apreciate the head you guys put up with daily running the classifieds reguardless.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Lechwe on April 25, 2011, 04:21:00 PM
Has anyone thought of dumping our current usernames and using our real names? I know some who do and it takes a lot of secrecy out of it. A couple of the others sites have done that and as much as I like my username it may make more sense to go back to real names.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: rastaman on April 25, 2011, 04:30:00 PM
Excellent idea!
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Terry Green on April 25, 2011, 04:32:00 PM
If you click on someone's screen name you can see their 'real name' in there profile.

The fee along with what we just got through talking about will be a deterrent.  Scammers are going to look for weak links....we aren't going to have any unless they just really want to...but then they will be made public  for all to see.

Minimal posts will also be a part of it...for all forums.  This will be a very time consuming effort....until this is started....stay vigilant.  It real close to St Judes to be doing something like this ....so I don't know if we will start implementing it before the auction starts or not.

BTW...if someone has a 'real name' in their profile that is not their real name...just contact us.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: b44mag on April 25, 2011, 04:39:00 PM
you guys are doing a great job. i just started on here and so far nothing but good to say.
i understand about getting ripped off on the web has happened to me once and after all kind of dealings one bad is bound to happen. with all the scammers out there today its hard to trust some one you never met. im all for whatever you do as to keep the riff raff out of here.
i would like to thank you all that run this site and do a wonderful job of it. and also thank the guys n gals on here for the plethera of info to help a new guy learn to shoot. i have offered to buy a few things and they were givin insted of sold and that is a very hard thing to find these days good no great people here
THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH
BRAD MURTHA / B44MAG
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Ladams on April 25, 2011, 04:39:00 PM
Just curious, Will this be a membership fee or a per item fee, Im not oposed by a fee at all just curious, It's a shame it has come to this, im sure the man hours to moniter this are extream, and for those who have kept it going THANK YOU..
Terry Thank you  for a place for me to lurk
Larry
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Bowwild on April 25, 2011, 04:40:00 PM
I have had no problems buying or selling in the classifieds. I do the same thing every time I contemplate a transaction. I do a search for the person trying to do business with me. I read some of those posts. If the person seems to be legit I do some of the following:

1. I may ask others I trust if they have had dealings with the person.
2. I will exchange PMs.
3. I may ask to talk over the telephone.

When it comes to my end of the transaction, I often provide, in a PM or telephone call enough, personal information about myself to make the person comfortable that I wouldn't risk my reputation.

I like the 100-post rule.  

I have only been involved in about 10 transactions, all in the past year. All have been better than perfect.

Unless I go on a selling spree I'll be far less active in the future on the classifieds than I've been in the past.  

I keep an e-file of e-mails and PMs of everyone I've dealt with here.  That way, if something ever happens to me my wife will know who to contact to liquidate my lefties.

I know we refrain from writing about the big Auction Site x-xxx. However, I've done about 60 transactions there over the years. I think their rating system is fantastic.  I have a lot of trust in anyone with 100% positive feedback.  I'm sure such a system is complicated but I'm a strong believer in past performance as a great predictor of future behavior.

By the way, if any of you come recommended by Billy Shipp in Texas...you are GOLDEN in my book!
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: JohnHV on April 25, 2011, 04:40:00 PM
Terry,

Sounds like a good solution to me. Although I don't do a lot of buying and selling, I'd be glad to pay a fee to use the classifieds.

Just consider it a donation to the cause.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Rich in CO on April 25, 2011, 04:47:00 PM
Count me in with the fee or what ever is decided. I don't know how hard a feedback section would be to admin, I think that would help also
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: ishoot4thrills on April 25, 2011, 04:59:00 PM
I just read through every one of the posts in this thread. I see several good ideas. I just hope you guys(Terry, Rob, the mods. and everyone else who pours out so much of themselves) don't take on more than you are already doing. I can't even imagine how much time and effort y'all are already spending on here each day.

I like the idea some have mentioned about becoming a contributor before you can participate in the classifieds. Maybe even be a contributor every year. I'm very confident that your decision will be sound and I will support it 100%.

I just know that this place has had a major impact on my daily life and I couldn't stand the thought of losing it!

   :campfire:
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Pops on April 25, 2011, 05:08:00 PM
I was off for 3 months this winter with
knee replacement I would have gone nuts without
TradGang. I'm in lets keep the bad guys out   :knothead:
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Terry Green on April 25, 2011, 05:13:00 PM
No 'per item fee'...no 'annual fee'....just a one time fee....

Not even sure about a fee yet...got to see about getting code written and time.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: BRITTMAN on April 25, 2011, 05:19:00 PM
Im for what ever you guys decided , im just thankfull you allow us the freedom to buy and sell on here .
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: billy shipp on April 25, 2011, 05:41:00 PM
Terry....the fee is cool.....anyone not liking it needs to move on down the road anyway.

EVERYTHING on TG has always been FREE, and folks get spoiled to that.

I'm not going to say I know how much time you and the others invest into keeping TG up and running, but I do know it takes a tremendous effort by all, and it has always kinda chapped my backside to see all the members that are here every day, and they aren't even a contributor, so those folks are just soaking it all up for free.

Institute the fees....it can't do anything but help weed out the ones looking to profit from others.

While I'm on my rant.....all you freeloaders enjoying this site need to man up and become a contributor.

Billy Shipp
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Stone Knife on April 25, 2011, 05:52:00 PM
Sounds like a good plan Terry   :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Hopewell Tom on April 25, 2011, 06:00:00 PM
I'm in for what's being proposed. I've been in a dream world maybe. 3 deals and all better than good, never researched anyone. Just liked how things "felt".  
The onetime fee sounds good, 100 posts for everything and maybe a place to post when a deal goes good or bad. I appreciate when someone chimes in on someones sale and says " a good guy to deal with". That's very reassuring for some reason and I don't "know" any of you folks. Not hard to get a feeling tho'....
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Goke on April 25, 2011, 06:04:00 PM
I like the concept Terry. Thanks for all your hard work and looking out for the rest of us.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: dan d on April 25, 2011, 06:11:00 PM
:thumbsup:  Terry, your the Man !   I like your thinking !

I have no problem contributing as I'm a contributor anyways, I have sold 2 bows now and bought a few quivers and supplies, I don't use the classifieds a lot, but I'm glad it's there when I feel like buying something !

Great ideas !

   :clapper:    :clapper:    :clapper:
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Benner on April 25, 2011, 06:15:00 PM
I like the fee idea. You guys do an excellent job with this site. Thank you.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: David Bartholomew on April 25, 2011, 06:26:00 PM
Do what you feel is right. I appreciate your efforts.

David
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: kat on April 25, 2011, 06:55:00 PM
I like the one time fee.

I like the 100 post minimum.

I like the listing of references from other trad gang members. This could be incorporated into the advertisement of each item, just as 'quotes or sayings are done now at the bot. of posts.

I like the full name on each post.

Ken thornhill
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: vermonster13 on April 25, 2011, 07:02:00 PM
I've been missing a lot of this and am playing catch-up. For starts when you register here having your full real name in your profile is a requirement you agree to to become a site member.

I have some ideas for you Terry and when I get a little more mobile I'll give you a call.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: 2 edges on April 25, 2011, 07:09:00 PM
This is a great idea and will be fun to look through.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: MD on April 25, 2011, 07:10:00 PM
While I am new to the whole posting part of this, I have purchased a couple of bows through the classified and liked the original listing requirements. That said I am sure a solution being worked on will sufice for the bow section. I don't however like the garage sale idea at all. if members want to sell non-related items they can put a yard sale sign in there front yard.  Insted of turning this web site into a mini-**** or site to unload unwanted household items.
Mark
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: hardtimes on April 25, 2011, 07:21:00 PM
I support the one time fee. I also like the idea of the 100 post min for posting in the classifieds. The one I like the most is for the buyer/seller to have to have their full name and contact information. Whether it is posted in the open or on their profile, either way it is available.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Sixby on April 25, 2011, 08:11:00 PM
Terry, I think this is an excellent idea. God Bless you, Steve
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: sswv on April 25, 2011, 08:27:00 PM
great idea   :thumbsup:    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: TDHunter on April 25, 2011, 08:32:00 PM
This is sounding positive, thanks for your efforts
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: freeman on April 25, 2011, 08:33:00 PM
I like the way this is going.. always liked the idea of at least some kind of traders feedback.

The private forum should work even better, and probably be easier to implement.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: bsv on April 25, 2011, 08:37:00 PM
I think it's a great idea. I hope I can get in.
Burt
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: A.S. on April 25, 2011, 08:45:00 PM
Sounds absolutely great to me!
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Steve Chappell on April 25, 2011, 08:58:00 PM
Terry:
I really appreciate that you have gone into the thinking and doing mode and not let the site slip away from your vision.  I really struggled learning to get around TRadGang but thanks to the 100 post requirement, I learned it and absolutely think this is the premier site for traditional archers . I hope you keep things as easy as possible for you and the other admins as you work through and implement future changes.  While I like and use the classifieds and want them to remain, it is not the primary reason I visit TradGang multiple times a day!

I am good with a onetime fee at whatever level you feel is needed to keep trouble out.

I am good giving my personal information to you and the other admins so you can check me out as long as you give us the option to show or not show certain info that could be deemed opening one up to unwanted contact.

I am good with setting whatever post minimum you all feel is necessary to keep trouble out.

I am goood with whatever you put in place to keep TrafGang the great site it is!

Thanks to all you Admins for all you do!
SteveC
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Warden609 on April 25, 2011, 09:02:00 PM
I really enjoy the classifieds. I know you guys will do a wonderful job because everything on this site is top notch. Thanks Guys
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: trad_bowhunter1965 on April 25, 2011, 09:07:00 PM
I am in great idea. Blake
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Plumber on April 25, 2011, 09:10:00 PM
that sounds great!! it would be nice to have a scumbag free zone. we could enjoy trading or selling in a safe manor.this site has so much to offer other than buying or selling.the wealth of knowledge is unbeliveable.I may never get to go to Africa. but my mind takes me there when I emers myself in a good storie from the dark continent section.Or when your walking through the swamps with"RC" these stories cant be found anywhere else.Just blessed hard working people who love to hunt an shoot.we are all lucky.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: LimBender on April 25, 2011, 09:15:00 PM
MD, I'm assuming the GrabBag idea would fall under its own Section heading, so you would never have to click on it.

This is the best run site I've seen, especially for the large amount of members. No reason to think that the powers that be won't do what is in the best interest.

Thanks for the hard work!  I don't know much about trad archery, but what I do know I learned or was pointed to here.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: crotch horn on April 25, 2011, 09:15:00 PM
Like many have stated before. Whatever it takes to keep OUR TG safe & secure. We are a family here & we all want to keep the scammers out. I am in whatever you decide. Will help in anyway I can as well.
Dan
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: woodcock on April 25, 2011, 09:20:00 PM
I would be fine with a fee and probably anything that y'all come up with.  I will say as has been said above, You are doing a very fine job and this site is clean and a great place to go.  If  anyone is in doubt about the uniqueness of this forum just go to one of the other sites and read the ridiculous, immature and profane/obscene rants of the participants.  Thanks, Joe
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: East Coast archer on April 25, 2011, 09:21:00 PM
Terry

I feel for you and the mods, but personally am not a fan of posting someone's personal info. or asking a fee to use the classifieds.  Not a fan of minimal posts either as I personally don't post a lot compared to some members.  I like to look and learn a lot more then posting.  Seems to me that a lot of newer members post just to post.  I remember when I started here there was a core of knowledgable members who did a lot of the postings and a lot of good info. was going around.  Now it seems a lot of stuff is asked that could have been or was answered a ton of times if members would just use the search feature ie. "Is this enough weight, is my arrow heavy enough" etc.  Hope you and Rob and the rest of the crew get it figured out.  Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: ti-guy on April 25, 2011, 09:24:00 PM
AS long as it does not give adm. and mod. Way too much work, I'm with you  :campfire:
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: kennyb on April 25, 2011, 09:25:00 PM
Terry-this sounds good having a pre-approved list but the grab bag part I'm not so sure about. I would hate to see this site turn into 'Craigs List'. This 'grab bag' could very well bring in those with nefarious intentions! Just my opinion, sir. By the way, you guys do a wonderful service. Thank you kindly!

Kenny   :goldtooth:
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: hedgetree on April 25, 2011, 09:28:00 PM
I would be more than happy to pay a fee. I gather a lot of information from this site that I can not receive locally.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: SteveB on April 25, 2011, 10:09:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by East Coast archer:
Terry

I feel for you and the mods, but personally am not a fan of posting someone's personal info. or asking a fee to use the classifieds.  Not a fan of minimal posts either as I personally don't post a lot compared to some members.  I like to look and learn a lot more then posting.  Seems to me that a lot of newer members post just to post.  I remember when I started here there was a core of knowledgable members who did a lot of the postings and a lot of good info. was going around.  Now it seems a lot of stuff is asked that could have been or was answered a ton of times if members would just use the search feature ie. "Is this enough weight, is my arrow heavy enough" etc.  Hope you and Rob and the rest of the crew get it figured out.  Just my 2 cents.
Pretty much my feelings. I don't ask or expect any forum I am a member of to provide a classified or to be responsible for the users if they do. I've bought and sold a bunch of stuff here and several places using common sense.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: BOWMARKS on April 25, 2011, 10:14:00 PM
Terry what ever you and the moderators come up with to handle this problem I am sure will be for the best interest of the TRADGANG!!      

 :thumbsup:    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: bob@helleknife.com on April 25, 2011, 10:14:00 PM
Terry,

Lots of ways to do this...but probably lots of work as well.

Perhaps set up a Pay Pal Trad Gang account and both Buyers and Sellers pay a flat fee per transaction, say $5.00 each?  

You could make it a voluntary thing to see how it works out and have a rainy day fund for TG.

Great job as always!

Bob
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: lilbobby on April 25, 2011, 10:17:00 PM
Great idea!
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Longspur77 on April 25, 2011, 10:27:00 PM
I like the fee and the post count. I am with the mods on this
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Ga.boy on April 25, 2011, 10:30:00 PM
I think a classifieds fee is a great idea. I also agree with admin. requiring personal information, but think it should be up to the individual as to what is posted for general viewing. I'm in agreement with minimum post count as well as a grab bag forum. Heck, I bought my truck off of a predominately traditional archery forum.
I wouldn't want my phone number or street address posted in my profile, but would be glad to share that info. with admin. I always offer my phone number to anyone that I am dealing with and ask for their number as well. I will never again deal with anyone who will not talk with me or send pictures of their offering.

It sounds like y'all are on the right track.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Archie on April 25, 2011, 10:30:00 PM
I'm for it.  Good idea, Terry & Rob!
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Soilarch on April 25, 2011, 10:35:00 PM
Although I have no complaints with the minimum-post rule I understand that some would much rather read than write...and that their post counts are going to be lower because of it.


I like the idea of a one time fee.  Heck I like the idea of an annual fee.  If someone wants to complain about that I'd make clear the fact that to be a part of the tradgang community is ABSOLUTELY FREE!  If you'd like to use this community as a means to move funds and/or goods though you must put down your earnest.

There's a reason "Put your money where you mouth is" became such a popular cliche.


Mind you, I'm writing all of this as a B-R-O-K-E 25 year old who is between jobs and trying to make due with a self-employed gig.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Longspur77 on April 25, 2011, 10:38:00 PM
I like the fee and the post count. I am with the mods on this
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Hunter 709 on April 25, 2011, 10:51:00 PM
I have bought one bow and one quiver from the classified on TG but I have used them extensively over the past few years to learn about what different brands and styles look like. I enjoy the window shopping that the classifieds have allowed me and am very glad to here that Terry and team are figuring out new and better ways to keep it safe for us. I appreciate your countless hours. Thanks
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: leatherneck on April 25, 2011, 10:53:00 PM
:thumbsup:    :thumbsup:  Can't wait to see the results Terry. I meant what I said in my email. Just give me a buzz.

Mike
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: champ38 on April 25, 2011, 11:04:00 PM
I would gladly pay, and go with whatever the mods decide 100%. Thanks for a great site, Shane
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Killdeer on April 25, 2011, 11:10:00 PM
Oooh!
I would like to keep my addy and phone to myself until I decide to deal.

Killdeer   :campfire:
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: ncsaknech1ydh on April 25, 2011, 11:13:00 PM
An annual fee works for me, I am very happy you guys are working this out for all of us who enjoy coming here, this is the last site I check out before bed, and the first site I'm on first thing in the morning. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say thanks much for all of your hard work to make this a great site! DK.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Mack Marine on April 25, 2011, 11:15:00 PM
Any way you could post number of sales for determination of a trades? Most guys on here know each other. I saw where another guy had written he knew a guy with less than 100 post. I felt better seeing that effort for new members. Happy to pay to make the system as safe as possible. Thanks Guys for the site!!
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: thump on April 25, 2011, 11:19:00 PM
Terry you made this site what it is today and I'm behind you 100% Being able to belong to this site is a privilege
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: KSdan on April 25, 2011, 11:26:00 PM
My thought is that to do any dealing you must have "references,"  that is, 1-2 other tradgang members who can affirm your character.  Most of us have friends and those we have met on here, at various shoots, or business dealings.  How about each of us who want to use classifieds need to be connected. I realize that limits some, but it will also encourage the development of friendships with others.  Somebody could still be crooked- but they would be misdealing before their peers.

My 2C
Dan Rudman in KS
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: MD on April 25, 2011, 11:44:00 PM
I like the concept of user fees as stated by so many others in previous posts.  I think those on the fence might be swayed if they knew fees collected would be earmarked for something like st judes childrens hospital charity.  That way they can shop and do a good deed at the same time.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: drd on April 25, 2011, 11:45:00 PM
Have you considered requiring a referral from existing members (and all with less than xxx posts)before a newbee is accepted?  I found the site after selling a bow on the other site as a newbee and my buyer "Shick" referred me to TG. I'm not much for communicating when I have to type, so I don't post much.  Do enjoy the classified wish list a lot! Do what you must and we'll all decide what to do next.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: MD on April 25, 2011, 11:46:00 PM
I like the concept of user fees as stated by so many others in previous posts.  I think those on the fence might be swayed if they knew fees collected would be earmarked for something like st judes childrens hospital charity.  That way they can shop and do a good deed at the same time.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: jerry womble on April 26, 2011, 12:00:00 AM
I think the user fee is a good solid idea!
Thanks for working this out! It is appreciated by all I'm sure.

Jerry
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Fisher Cat on April 26, 2011, 12:03:00 AM
Terry,

I think a fee is a great idea.

I believe there should be a 100 post OR at least one reference as a buyer rule, whichever one an individual achieves first.

Use of PayPal might be beneficial too.

Something else to consider would be to use snail-mail to send an applicant their password after you receive their fee.  That way you have a real address for them and the time the whole process takes might deter some of the "get rich quick" types.

Thanks again - John
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Gene Gillis on April 26, 2011, 12:11:00 AM
I leave all the managing of a website to those entrusted to be an administrator. I have never bought or sold from the classifieds but read them every day , looking for that something special kind of thing. I would like to have the right to use it if I have something to buy or sell, with some kind of approval rating or stored info on sellers or buyers. You guys make the rules I'll do my best to abide by them ,if I use the classifieds. The grab bag sounds great to me. I don't see how a one time fee would stop a scammer at least from using the site once. or even again with another name.again a small fee, for a scam isn't a problem for them, but would help fianace the grab bag.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Colotrad on April 26, 2011, 12:12:00 AM
I'm all in Terry.  Thanks for working up this idea.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: ka on April 26, 2011, 12:16:00 AM
Go for it! Im in. Jess
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Larry Surtees on April 26, 2011, 01:46:00 AM
This does sound great!  I like the idea, and I would be willing to sale items and donate 10% of any sale to St. Judes!
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: buckracks7 on April 26, 2011, 02:24:00 AM
I would go along with anything you say.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: babs on April 26, 2011, 02:41:00 AM
I think its a good idea. I dont post alot either like some guys but I do like to read alot and see and try different things. The gang on here is very creative. Thanks and keep up the good work
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Plumber on April 26, 2011, 05:40:00 AM
once a person is checked out an accepted I think a anual flat rate is best if there is going to be a fee.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Gator1 on April 26, 2011, 07:03:00 AM
There are many great suggestions, and I know I appreciate everyones efforts.  Unfortunately this has created extra work for the Moderators.

Thanks to all working this out.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: katman on April 26, 2011, 07:48:00 AM
Fee and minimum post count sounds good.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: KentuckyTJ on April 26, 2011, 08:10:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Bowwild:
I know we refrain from writing about the big Auction Site x-xxx. However, I've done about 60 transactions there over the years. I think their rating system is fantastic.  I have a lot of trust in anyone with 100% positive feedback.  I'm sure such a system is complicated but I'm a strong believer in past performance as a great predictor of future behavior.  
I like Roy's "Feedback" idea. Terry/Rob could you add a Feedback link in everyone's profile where buyers or sellers could add their thoughts of the experience? That would be a great tool.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Elkchaser on April 26, 2011, 08:15:00 AM
I'm in for whatever you guys decide.
Whatever that may be, please don't create too much extra burden on yourselves as moderators. You do more than enough all ready.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: LONGSTYKES on April 26, 2011, 08:40:00 AM
You guys have a great Idea here and I will support what ever your decision is. Just hope it is a lot less labor and stress intensive for everyone who Administers this great site. A lot of very good people here, just a few bad apples. You do great work, very, very few of us could handle the work load or the pressure.

God Bless Don
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Buckhorn47 on April 26, 2011, 08:50:00 AM
1. I support the idea of a monetary contributorship as a requirement to conduct any transaction on this site.

2. I would support a process which would also require tenure within this organization, a means of showing sincerity, i.e 100 post rule, co-member confirmation, etc.

3. Personal information. These days, most information is available when using our modern communicative devices. I see no problem with including phone numbers, addresses, etc. for other legitimate members to view.

4. Feedback can be a great tool, however, it would come with a lot of supervision and a whole new addition to our already overworked monitors, and, in truth, it would create a whole new set of rules which I am sure nobody wants or needs. We still have to take the responsibility of making sure our own deals are fair and just and thus assist in establishing tenure ( as in #2 above )

Whatever the decision, our past guidance and leadership from those taking care of our interests, has been exceptional. I bow to their continued expertise.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Bowwild on April 26, 2011, 08:51:00 AM
I've read all the comments and suggestions.  Lots of good ones.  

I should have posed this question/comment earlier?  I was not aware that scammers are prevalent on TG?  It seems very rare that I read someone here having a bad experience.

However, being pro-active to make sure the scammers stick to creating and distributing  computer viruses instead of cheating us recurve guys (ok, and the LB folks too), I'm for it.

I like the minimum post requirement. I like being able to PM a member. I like the idea of being a "Contributor" (I had to quickly check to make sure I'm one).I don't care if I know the person's real name and city of residence or not at the beginning. I do like to know from where (state, province, or country) the transactor hails--I don't do business with folks from states with an "R" -- I'm kidding here!

I like the Reference Idea and of course the feedback concept.  You'd want there to be alternatives though.  There are surely TD Gang members who don't know or aren't known by anyone on the site?  It would be tough for them to get a reference. Feedback takes a while to establish -- you can't get feedback until you've done some deals -- chicken or egg problem.  Of course one would have to be careful about accepting feedback or references from anyone with "wapiti" or KY in their "handle", these guys josh a lot.

To qualify as a reference:
1. You must shoot Left-Handed RECURVES
2. You must be a public figure OR
3. You must have 500 TD Posts (and carpal tunnel syndrome)
4. You've sold or bought at least one bow from Lefties r Us--the Buckster will have checked you out!
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Terry Green on April 26, 2011, 10:11:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Bowwild:
I was not aware that scammers are prevalent on TG?  
They are not....every once in a while someone slips in and takes advantage....it is rare, but pisses me off none the less.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: GRINCH on April 26, 2011, 10:18:00 AM
Well said Terry pisses us all off.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Shinken on April 26, 2011, 10:21:00 AM
On the internet today Trad Gang is a very unique site.

What a blessing!

  :campfire:  


Shoot straight, Shinken
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: GRINCH on April 26, 2011, 10:39:00 AM
Terry I know from experience that you can't stop all scammers,all the rules in the world just present more of a challenge.We as a group should be able to monitor who we decide to do buisness with,forwarned does help,if you choose to make a trade or transaction it's on your head don't go whining to the mods because you made a choice.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Terry Green on April 26, 2011, 10:44:00 AM
At this point I've got too much on my plate to worry about any changes.....and the St Judes auction is too close....so, you guys look out for one another on the classifieds till we can find the right time and combo of things to do to make it better.

Take care.
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: TWarrows on April 26, 2011, 10:50:00 AM
Terry you and all the mods. do a great job..Keep it up.. Install the 100 post rule to all classifieds and 200 to sell a bow and move on..dont let a few low life scammers add to your work load..TG is a great FUN site dont make it too much work..
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Two Arrows on April 26, 2011, 11:16:00 AM
Great idea Terry, the work you and all the Mods do is much appreciated!
Title: Re: Classifieds....What I'm going over with Rob...
Post by: Night Wing on April 26, 2011, 11:36:00 AM
I've read through (as of right now) 10 pages of suggeestions. Some are good, some I'm not too keen on, but I can live with. However, there is one suggestion I'm totally against. It's below.

I don't mind a one time fee to pay a listing to sell a bow in the classifieds. However, if the fee for the classifieds is only payable through PayPal and no other form of payment, then I'm 100% against it and it's a deal killer for me.

I will not give a credit card number and other pertinent credit card info, which can be stored on PayPal's servers, to PayPal......and this is carved in granite.